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Ford Mustang (2004 and earlier)

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  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,673
    I find that a little hard to believe since, just looking at carsdirect, I can pick up a base '05 350z for $900 under msrp and a performance model for $1500 under. And that's '05s! Meaning that deals will only get better as the year progresses and the '06s start looming.

    '13 Stang GT; '15 Fit; '98 Volvo S70; '14 Town&Country

  • I just towed an '05 GT Mustang home from the dealership and I wanted to share my impressions from my first weekend with the car. I currently own a '66 289 auto coupe, a '93 5.0 5-speed convertible, and the new GT. I appreciate the styling of the new GT because of its use of my favorite styling cues from Mustangs past. Driving the car is as much fun as looking at it. It feels fast, tight, crisp handling, and has a wonderful sound. I paid $25,700 (MSRP). I'm so glad I didn't pay for options such as low-grade leather seats, metal-sheathed interior that glares bad,or a 1000 watt stereo that fills the trunk with a subwoofer. The 500 watt stereo sounds great. Don't worry about the future residual value of the cars, the bottom will fall out of every car you buy anyway. I wouldn't pay over MSRP though. Waiting will save you some money, but you never know what tomorrow brings.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,221
    Matter of fact, there is also some evidence that production has already caught up with demand if seeing them pile up on dealers lots, as I have, is any indication.

     

    Are you seeing GTs too? I've noticed them piling up on some lots around here too but every single one is a V6 ATX. Which really makes sense as the V6 with MTX has been on hold for a month or two.

     

    The one GT I saw on a lot was gone by the next day and I haven't seen one since on any lots or in their inventories. Believe me, I've tried. The recent winter weather probably isn't helping move those V6 copies off the lots either.

     

    Production should catch up soon but it's going to slow down again when they put the vert online in early Feb.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,536
    I've seen a few GTs on the lots around here this weekend. But, as you say, most are AT V6s on the lots.

     

    For grins, I stopped into one local dealership to peruse one jet black and one red GT they had in their showroom. I asked the salesperson what they were selling for. He said they were "hot models" and pointed to the MSRP sticker. I laughed and started to walk out. He stopped me and said, "make us an offer". I'll assume I could have bought one of them for something under MSRP, but don't really know.

     

    350z sales are cold as ice around southern OH. Lots of '03s-'04s on the used lots. You can make deals on them all day long. Same can be said for the RX8s (although I've yet to see a used one for sale). Sports car sales, in general, aren't great in the winter around here anyway.
  • Spent a solid 2 weeks shopping dealers in WI. Talked with roughly 20 of them. The most 05's any dealer had on the lot was 4, 3 of which were sold. With a single white GT Premium available. A majority did have 1-2 sixers available. All the dealers stated they were selling extremely well.

     

    Out of the 20 half wanted MSRP, with a couple over MSRP and a couple under. Did manage to find one willing to order in for a couple hundred under invoice though. Quoted delivery time was 6-10 weeks. Though I'm guessing 8-12 is probably closer to actual from what I've been reading.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,536
    As the dealer's lots fill-up, I'd bet you can make a deal at towards Dec 30th or 31st. If not, hold out until the end of January. My guess is sales will be slow and production will be in full gear by then allowing you a better selection and a better price.
  • as for loads of gts piling up on dealer lots by the end of january....dont hold your breath. at full capacity, there would be about 5 gts per dealer per month by my math. as for the 50% residual on a five hundred, it is not an estimate of the value if you buy it, it is the number used if you do a 36 month lease. if it's not worth that much after 36 months, who cares?...let ford eat the loss the same way the [non-permissible content removed] manufacturers do. if you think a japaneese car can hold 50% after 3 years, you're dreaming. just try to trade one in and get that.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,673
    yes, i pointed out in my post that the 50% is an estimated residual value, and not the real trade-in value.

     

    if you think a japaneese car can hold 50% after 3 years, you're dreaming. just try to trade one in and get that.

    I can currently get 77% for my japanese vehicle after 20 months of ownership. Considering the fact that car values drop the steepest when new, the next 16 months won't drop as much as the earlier months did, bringing my 3-year value WELL over 58%.

    '13 Stang GT; '15 Fit; '98 Volvo S70; '14 Town&Country

  • mschmalmschmal Posts: 1,757
    At my dealership our GT allocation is going to people who have placed orders. We won't have cars on the lot until the allocation is greater than the number of orders.

     

    We did have one customer cancel his order since he was able to find a car on the ground.

     

    Silver GT Premium with all options but the Shaker 1k. Should be in this week.

     

    Mark
  • john_324john_324 Posts: 974
    Out of curiosity, when do you think that will be? I figured as much, but have always wondered how many people placed pre-orders for the cars...
  • mschmalmschmal Posts: 1,757
    Its not that there is a huge number of orders as much as the fact that they are coming in just as quick as allocation...

     

    This could just be my dealership though since 05 allocation doesn't just take in to account deliveries of 05s but over all Mustang delivery history. We still have 7 2004s left which are probably keeping our 05 allocation down a little.

     

    Mark
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,673
    ford-guy: believe it or not, the bonafide money is actually higher. I used Edmunds number in my figure only because it is lower. I wasn't clear on your statement, but did you say you got an '01 S2000 for $13,500? Where is this? How many miles? I'd buy that in a heartbeat! As a matter of fact, an '01 was just run by Terry on the Real-World Trade-in Values board, and here is the results: rroyce10, "Real-World Trade-In Values" #23795, 19 Dec 2004 8:10 am. Now that one only has 9K miles, so that helps alot, but a $4K difference would add up to ALOT of miles. I just did a search within 100 miles of my location for all S2000s and the only one that came up even CLOSE to that was $15K and that has a salvage title. The next up is $19K with 70K miles.

     

    Baggs - $4K-$4500 for an 8-year-old Civic is certainly nothing to sneeze at. Heck, my 6-year-old Volvo, which cost 3 times the price of a Civic when new, is only fetching $6K as a trade-in. So figure they will be very close when both are 8 years old. Pretty amazing resale value on that Civic.

     

    But, yes, ford-guy, I'll be the first to tell you that the books are typically optimistic. That's why I always check on the Real-World Trade-In Values board.

    '13 Stang GT; '15 Fit; '98 Volvo S70; '14 Town&Country

  • your point is made. i received an 01 s2000 silver color with 70000 miles. trade in was 13500.....no kidding. good condition other than the miles.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,673
    I forget... what was the point? LOL

     

    Even after all this, mind you, I still like the new Mustang (it IS the mustang board, after all).

    '13 Stang GT; '15 Fit; '98 Volvo S70; '14 Town&Country

  • your point is made. i received an 01 s2000 silver color with 70000 miles. trade in was 13500.....no kidding. good condition other than the miles.

     

    seems like you could sell your s2000 to a dealer for 13,500, but no way you're going to be able to buy it for that price.. otherwise i would've picked one up myself
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,536
    mscmal...Can I assume you are a salesman at a Ford dealership?

     

    It's snowing like crazy in southwestern OH right now. I bet I can make a below MSRP deal at the local Ford dealership right now on the two GTs they have in stock if I walked into their empty showroom with checkbook in hand.

     

    I would feel good about making a bet that there will be more than 5 Mustang GTs/month/dealership for the MY '05. If the GT is the hot model, you can pretty much bet that Ford will crank those out at an elevated pace.
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    Well, you may be able to make a swinging deal now in SW Ohio, but I did a quick internet survey of the dealers here in central Texas and this is what I found listed on their websites as current inventory:

     

    14 dealerships checked.

    Mustang GT: 7 cars (2 autos / 5 manuals)

    Mustang V6: 79 cars (77 autos / 2 manuals)

     

    As an aside, it looks as though the V6 manual model is finally being produced, but in VERY low numbers.
  • like i said...about 5 a month. trust me. heres a heck of a way to get a low price though...contact a dealer far away from where you live and have them order one....a small profit from business you would not otherwise get sounds like a good business decision to me.
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    Interesting thing about inventory (especially here in Texas): when you check the Dealer's inventory of F-150 trucks against their inventory of Mustangs.....

     

    Well, the dealer who listed the most Mustangs (17, all V6's), shows 157 F-150 trucks in stock. Another dealer who listed 12 Mustangs (again, all V6's), shows over 350 F-150 trucks in stock (and I drive by this dealer everyday; I believe that number).

     

    Looking on the bright side: the new F-150 has been in production for a few months longer. I don't know how many of those trucks listed in stock are leftover '04s but I think the vast majority are '05s. Obviously, Ford has the production capability to keep up with (and then some) whatever demand the market may have for the new Mustangs.

     

    Just be patient; inventory WILL build and purchase prices WILL fall.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,536
    texas...not a bad suggestion at all. My father used to do that all the time. We live in the Cincinnati area. My father would call a couple of dealers as far north as Detroit. He would make a deal over the phone, ask other local dealers to match it. When they said they woudln't/couldn't (in the belief my Father would never drive 5 hours one way to buy a car), he and I would make the trip (in my car, of course). He'd drive back in his new car.

     

    He said the same as you. A dealership would get business they wouldn't have had otherwise by him buying from out of town.

     

    We should have this conversation about the Mustang GTs availability this time next month or in February. My guess is the selection will be quite large at the bigger dealerships.
  • nedc2nedc2 Posts: 192
    Regarding F-150 v. Mustang inventories, you have to remember that the F-150 is produced at several plants, Dearborn Assembly, Norfolk, and Kansas City, whereas the Mustang is produced only at Auto Alliance in Flat Rock MichiganI where it shares the line with the Mazda 6 series cars. Really big inventories and price cuts/rebates on the Mustang won't be coming anytime soon unless demand really tanks. And also remember the Mustang convertible is due out in a few month, and they are gorgeous.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,673
    I'm really shocked at how many optimistic people there are regarding Mustang production, sales, etc. Its as if none of you have bought a Ford car before and tried to sell/trade it a few years later. I'm not bashing, mind you, I think optimism and hope are great things. I just don't possess those traits, I guess.

    '13 Stang GT; '15 Fit; '98 Volvo S70; '14 Town&Country

  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    Oh, I'm well aware that the F-150 is produced in several plants and the Mustang in only one. But there is a reason for that: demand for F-150 trucks (particularly here in Tx) and the profit Ford makes from them. I'm sure if sustained demand were high enough for the Mustang, Ford would SOMEHOW find a way to fill that demand.

     

    You can't swing a dead cat around here without smacking some urbanite in his new F-150.....

     

    Have you even known ANY model of Ford (in the last 25 years) where production was simply unable to keep up with demand 1 year after introduction? I say for those who really want a Mustang (and I certainly can understand the longing), just wait. Inventory WILL build and prices WILL fall.
  • mschmalmschmal Posts: 1,757
    This idea is still missing the boat. I can only order cars AFTER I get allocation. If a dealer has more orders than allocation then they will have no motivation not to insist on sticker price.

     

    Mark
  • mschmalmschmal Posts: 1,757
    One out of every new vehicles sold in Texas is a Ford F-Series truck. :)

     

    Mark
  • mschmalmschmal Posts: 1,757
    Check this out if you want to see how crazed people are about this car.

     

    http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosinsider/0412/21/A01-37497.htm

     

    Mark
  • i dont know folks... i mean, after reading the reviews and getting the feeling that the new mustangs are a hit.. afterall, its still a car... i mean, every year, there's always some hype of some new model coming out and people are paying msrp or over for these cars.. just look at the PT crusier... overtime, maybe not next month, but i'm sure in 6 months.. folks will be paying invoice or around invoice for this car.. i think there's always excitment when it comes to a new car purchase, but a car like this which plays alot into people's emotions with the 60's.. tend to make a few of us out there a lil nuts.. (example..paying more to be the first to have it)
  • I have a 20 year old Mustang, and a 10 year old Mustang, both in tip top shape. I *know* I can get more for each one of them than a 10 year old Camry.
  • john_324john_324 Posts: 974
    That's very true, with virtually any mid-end American car. But Mustangs are a special case I think and as such, there are some different considerations in the buying decision.

     

    While the decision process for your average American car is largely one of economics, it's hard to think of Mustangs solely (if at all) in this fashion. I'd imagine a good amount of Mustang buyers do not consider resale at all, esp. with the 2005s; it's a car they plan to hold onto and enjoy for a long time. I still see plenty of mid-1980s Fox bodies, unmodded but well-maintained, being driven around by everyday people...

     

    It's said that true enthusiasts don't care about resale values...they care about the enjoyment that ownership and use brings to them. So maybe Mustangs have an odd power to make enthusiasts (at least for a single car, for a while in their lives) out of everyday drivers? After all, how many people do you know that wax nostalgic about a Camry or Taurus they owned years ago?
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,536
    qbrozen...I'm with you on this topic. I hope all the Ford dealers get MSRP for every Mustang they sell. I just don't see it happening for much longer, though. I kind of view this the same as when the VW "New Beetle" came out. There was a flourish of "over sticker" buying. Then, just as quickly, demand tapered off once the lots began filling up and "deals" started to become prevalent.

     

    I see the same thing happening with the Mustang. Matter of fact, I'd say it's starting already. I'm seeing stock on even the GT models starting to become easier to find at Ford dealerships.

     

    Historically, Ford (as well as GM and Chrysler) have produced at capacity regardless of demand of any vehicle. That's the way they are set up....keep those plants humming for 3 shifts.

     

    One of the hottest cars on the market, the Chrysler 300C Hemi, was going for MSRP and above when they were first introduced. It's pretty easy to make a deal on one now since the initial "buzz" has died down and stock is rising at the dealerships.

     

    I've never known any U.S. brand to hold huge resale until some of the models garnered "antique" status. That said, I don't think resale of an antuque AMC Pacer will ever be much.
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