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Toyota Sienna Future Models

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  • When you preference a vehicle it is normally with a specific set of options. It is also normally based upon the current pricing of the vehicles. That way if pricing increases, adjustments can be made. For Toyota, this is relatively uncommon as they very infrequently have mid-year price increases. So what you normally do is agree upon a set price for a vehicle with a set list of options. I normally get a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd color choices so that there is a "fallback" color if the first color choice is not avialable. So generally, pricing is determined at the time of preferencing.

    As for financing, normally they will give you a preliminary estimate. Financing from the banks generally change monthly, although a few banks I know of change weekly, so if it takes longer than till the end of the month, interest rates may be slightly lower or higher than currently avialable. Also, Toyota's programs generally run from month-to-month and are based upon when you take delivery of your new vehicle, not when you order it, so you will be able to take advantage of whatever programs are current at the time you take delivery of your new vehicle when applicable. You will also be able to participate in any rebates that are applicable in that month from the manufacturer. That is if special interest rates and/or rebates are available for the particular vehicle you are getting.

    Hope this helps.

    Ken
  • I too have struggled over this issue for a long time. I thought about getting rid of my current van with a SUV with 3 rows of seats many many times over. At the end, I realized that AWD is not really necessary for me. I live in Montreal, and we get our share of snow (probably more than most cities in North America). I have Michelin Arctic Alpines on all my cars and I have not been stuck in any situation because of lack of traction.

    For AWD Sienna, the following factors work against it as some have already pointed out:

    - Higher initial cost (hence higher depreciation cost overall).
    - Higher gas mileage.
    - Higher maintenance cost.
    - Higher repair cost (if you keep it over time).

    Depending on the length of ownership, it could cost over $100/month more than FWD version. Again, my personal opinion says I'd rather add more convenience options using the money. I think FWD + good winter tires + traction control (that you can turn off) is more than enough for all situations during the winter of Montreal for the past 15 years, including the famous "ice storm" period where half the city lost the power for over 2 weeks.
  • Ha! I've wanted to say that for a couple of days now . . .

    Anyway "fanasienna," I also live in Syracuse. I can't speak from AWD experience, but I've had FWD for the last 20 years on all my vehicles except one, and I've NEVER had a problem getting anywhere--even with our crumbo Windstar. When you get stuck, you just ease on the gas slowly back and forth, and there's no problem. I'm sure AWD is great, but I can't afford the extra cost and maintenance.

    I was a sales rep with a territory that extended up north (practically to the Canadian border), south almost to Pennsylvania, and east into the Catskills. Never got stuck! The only car I ever had trouble with was a rear-wheel drive Ford Granada. With FWD, the weight of the engine over the front (driving) wheels gives you superior traction, although the back can slip a bit.

    By the way, tragedy of all tragedies, I called the Syracuse Auto Dealers Association and *gasp* they're NOT going to have a new Sienna at the damn auto show this week! Boy what a disappointment!

    Anyway, good luck. I guess you and I will be vying for the same Siennas at Burdick and Romano--when they ever get the stupid things in stock.

    See ya!
  • I am new to this forum but have been reading all posts and am extremely amazed at the knowledge out there. Certainly grateful to all, especially Jack and Toyotaken.

    I own a subaru and can comment on the AWD. Before placing my snow tires we had a 6-7" storm and although I could get around without getting stuck, it felt unsteady and very slippery. I then placed my Arctin Alpins and noticed significant improvement. I do drive rather hard and the AWD gives an added measure of stability in turns - 'neutral' as others have described. However, I do not drive a minivan in the same fashion and would doubt it to be noticeable for handling. A family member owns DCG AWD to go up mountainous terrain in Adirondacks but this seems like the rare practical need for AWD. to each their own.

    I am looking to turn in our woeful windstar by summer or fall and while browsing car magazines online came upon the beautiful sienna '04 and have been seeing red since.

    Another question to Jack or Ken: Any word on whether the battery will have a 20 minute disable period if i.e. a reading lamp is left on after turning off ignition. Cannot tell you how many times that windstar feature saved us and the subie was needing a jump.

    Thanks in advance.
  • Ok we been waiting for the new toyota van because its suppose to be bigger? Is it going to be as big as the Honda van inside or does anyone know? We also want the van to have a dissapering 3rd row seat that will fold flat in the floor so you don't have to store it front and rear ac and heat pw pl cc cd player prefer does anyone know if the base van will have that equipment or will you have to go for a higher model? Would appreciate any feedback anyone has thanks for your time.
    Brent
  • Regarding the AWD vs. FWD debate: I have owned a RWD sedan, a FWD wagon, a RWD pickup, a 4WD pickup, and currently drive a FWD sedan (Geo Prizm Lsi, based on the Corolla). Our other car is a AWD Legacy. The RWD pickup was by far the worst in the snow, followed by the RWD sedan. The Prizm is decent in the snow, vastly better than the RWD pickup, and is adequate for its intended use: as a cheap commuting second car for Eastern Massachusetts. It does not have traction control. However, the Subaru is significantly better in the snow. It is particularly confidence inspiring driving up steep slippery pitches.

    We regularly drive to my mother's place in Vermont, which is at the top of a 1/2 mile dirt road, much of which is about a 15-20% grade. This is the perfect terrain for AWD, and is more extreme than what 99% of drivers ever encounter. I rarely drive the Prizm to Vt, and only once have had to drive up the hill when it was slippery. It was a bit of a white-knuckle experience, and took me two tries, but I did get up, although just barely. I do remember walking up the hill many times in my RWD days.

    FWD w/ traction control and snow tires is probably good enough for all but the most extreme conditions and pitches. That said, when I replace the Geo I plan to go back to AWD, it is just more confidence inspiring when it gets slippery.

    People say that AWD doesn't help with ice, but I know that when our driveway, which has a very slight pitch, is icy, that if I stop and then try to start again in the Geo, the front wheels will spin, and I will have to back up and come into the driveway with more momentum to get into the garage. Under the same conditions, I can bring the Legacy to a complete stop and then start up again without the slightest hint of slippage.

    About pricing: I'm sure that within the next couple of weeks we will have complete pricing. Maybe even within days. In the meantime I have been guessing. Our target model is the AWD LE w/ the BI package. I'm guessing $29.3K MSRP: LE base 24.9K, dest. chg: .5K, BI package, 1.4K, AWD 2.5K. Could be lower, could be higher...

    I'm guessing real word MSRP with options and destination chg. for the CE will be $24.5-25.5K. XLE limited AWD will top out at 38K or so. I'm sure we'll find out for real very soon.
  • I suggest you that you take a gander at the last 100 or so post here and visit kind of our informal FAQ about the 2004 Sienna at http://www.bowell.com/garage or at Sienna Minisite for good information.

    The new Sienna is slighter bigger in various forms compared to the Odyssey and the Sienna will come standard with a 60/40 Split & Stow 3rd row seat.

    Welcome!

    Jack
    Bowellville Garage
    Toyota Minisite
  • bargamonbargamon Posts: 302
    Jack,

    I guess adding awd would improve the drivabilty quality of the van and make more injoyable. I love a good drivetrain. AWD with the 5speed might not put it on rails, but remove that fwd tourque is a plus.
  • leknlekn Posts: 78
    Myth about higher maintenance cost and higher repair cost. Not sure where this came from. Most AWD systems are maintenance free. Sienna will be using an open differential + traction control. The traction control system is there anyways and the center open differential would be no different than the differential used in your FWD and RWD cars. How often has your differential given you problems? And if the car ages to the stage when you are concerned about the differentials, it probably would be the least of your worries.

    So higher initial cost and gas mileage - Yes;
    higher repair or maintenance cost - No.

    In addition, AWD helps the car's handling. And there are numerous circumstances when AWD would get you out of trouble. For me, avoiding the need to get out and dig the car out of a snow bank, or the ability to go up an icy gradient, or not worrying about getting caught in an unexpected early snow storm before the chance of changing tires is well worth the extra price. Yes, you need to know the limitation of AWD - but it's no different from any type of cars you drive.

    Can you get by with FWD + winter tires + traction control? Sure. But just like side guard curtain - is it a must? No. Would I get one if I have the option - absolutely. So if I am offered a choice of AWD, FWD or RWD, it would be AWD without second thoughts. And with the addition of VSC + winter tires, you would have the best technologies to help you in winter driving.
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    After looking closely at pricing and options on 2003 Sienna CE, I have a few more questions:
       1. Do you Toyota experts think Toyota can actually sell the 2004 Sienna CE for only $22,900?
       2. Will the 2004 Sienna have a CE EVP with the bargain pricing of the 2003 Sienna CE EVP?
       3. Will the 8 passenger Sienna CE have a bargain pricing for 8 passenger in like manner to captain seating currently available for $200 with EVP in the 2003 Sienna CE? (Probably $500 or so for 8 passenger above base CE).
       4. What is the possibility of Toyota dealers getting greedy like Honda did with Ody and S2000, Chrysler with Prowler and PT Cruiser, etc?
       5. How much is the deposit to get on a waiting list for the new 2004 Sienna at dealerships represented by Jack, Toyotaken, etc. who have provided us with very valuable information?
  • Talking to Toyota dealers and they are getting excited about the new Sienna. They got sick of Honda making all the money and have said sticker plus will be the way of the new Sienna. At least that was the 3 dealers in Indiana/Kentucky here. They said good luck dealing on them when they can't sell the 2002/2003 Siennas. Why discount a new vehicle everyone wants.

    I also have seen the new Sienna in person. I was driving my friend's 2003 Odyssey north on US 41 going towards Princeton. I was first at the light and 2 Toyota Engineers rolled up to the light and kept looking at the Odyssey and pointing. They kept creeping forward, when the light turned green we both punched it and my Odyssey blew the doors off that Sienna, the look on their faces was PRICELESS!!! It was a XLE Sienna and it had a Manufacturer new plate on the back, they turned off on CR550 to go to the plant. I checked it out, it looks small when I saw it come up beside me, and also from the front. Looks like a Camry in the front. Don't know where they park them, but as I went by the plant, didn't see any transports with any vans on them. Some of the view is blocked by dirt hills for privacy. There were none in the front of the plant either.

    Anywho, that's my .02 for the day.

    BTW, don't expect deals on 04 Siennas, and they say the older Siennas trade in will suffer from the discounts, special finance, rebates, invoice pricing, etc. Looks like Toyota copied Honda in the Dealer status also........STICKER, $500 deposit, lone forms to the right.
  • I do believe that dealer trading a 2004 will be out of question and impossible. You can't dealer trade Odysseys or Pilots currently. "HOT" vehicles are closely guarded by dealerships and their profit goes down when they dealer trade and send drivers with checks and invoices to other dealers and rack up miles on new vehicles.

    I may be way off base, but dealer trading for a 2004 Sienna should be futile and impossible for a few years until it cools down. Dodge/Chrysler will continue to sell vans, because not everyone can afford or want the best vehicles (Odyssey & Sienna). Also there are other options, Kia, Ford, just like the Toyota was an option to the sticker Odyssey for years.

    Why didn't they go with 4 wheel disc brakes with ABS & EBD on every model? Does the new Sienna have the passenger airbag off sensor? Please help here.
  • if you look at the Edmunds info area for the 03 Sienna you will find an "incentive" link. It will ask for your zip code because incentives are regional. Click on that to find what incentives are available in your area. They are letting the 03's go below invoice or around invoice (which is lower than MSRP) now. My friend just bought one last night for something like $21,500.

    I've been calling and e-mailing dealers around here because the one closet to me told me right off the bat (even though he didn't know the 04's were arriving in March) that there would be an "instant $5,000 markup". Well, he lost my business right there. I have talked (on the phone) to a very nice dealer a little bit further away and I explained how offput I was by my local dealer. He told me that some dealerships do markups like that but his doesn't. We'll have to see what happens when the vans really arrive. However, I live in a large urban area with at least 20 dealers within 100 miles and I'm not in a hurry to get a minivan, so I won't be sitting in the dealership with my checkbook open and my tongue hanging out - OK, maybe I will but I hope I won't be! It's a waiting game for now.
  • jenr1jenr1 Posts: 17
    jctobin - I am from eastern Mass also, I was wondering if you have been in touch with any dealers about the 04 Sienna and what your experience has been with them.
  • Unless I am way totally off base here, there will be no deals on 2004 Siennas for a long time (2-3 years). The Honda Odyssey was that way since 1999 on the new body style. Now you can find 1-2 thousand off sticker. The new Sienna will be marked up over sticker and sticker for a while. If yoy have bought 10 Toyotas from the same dealer for the past decade, you may get 500-1000 off sticker. Just wait until March and see what happens, I want to drive one. They did a great job by copying other minivans out there and will sell well at sticker like others.
  • As I impatiently wait for the arrival of '04 Sienna I have been having a few second thoughts:

    1) AWD, one of the reasons we held out this long (not wanting another D/C vehicle ever), but some posts here have made me feel more secure about going with FWD and VSC.

    2) Navigation system. If it is true that these will not be widely available until summer, it is a bummer. This is non-negotiable to us (as I suspect to others)

    3) Pricing. I know everything is speculative, but if a loaded XLE approaches 35-40K MSRP and the dealers expect to mark this up, it is at a point that I would go back and evaluate alternatives. I really love Toyota's and Lexus and rue the day I bought my Grand Cherokee instead of the RX300, but I can't justify paying 7k plus for a Sienna over an Odyssey which is still a great van.

    BTW, the previous posts discussing using an external DVD player had me thinking of one other benefit, we could bring it along on plane trips (anything to mellow the kids out is worth the price). I still would prefer to have a flip down built in system. The company that would build an aftermarkt flip down system that could be removed and taken with you would make a mint IMO.
  • I think Rainbow is a bit misinformed. I have no idea how well it will work for a Toyota Dealer with the new Sienna (Toyotaken and Jack can probably answer that best), but our Honda dealer has been doing dealer trades of both the Odyssey and the Pilot for quite awhile now. We were looking at both vehicles, and were aware of several swaps our dealer did (so that we could come look at the vehicles).
  • Well, rainbow has reared his ugly head again. First for those who do not know this, rainbow works for honda, and has had some wonderful things to add to the discusssion. (that was a bit sarcastic if you couldn't tell). As such, he really has no idea of what Toyota does in terms of distribution, or how Toyota dealerships work. First of all, dealers trade or don't trade at their discression. That being said, it is in their own best interest to be open with other local dealerships because for the most part, it is impossible to keep every configuration and color of vehicle on your own lot. So if you have a customer who is looking for something you don't have avaialable right now, if you're trading with other dealers, you can make that deal. If you're not, then you can't. So assuming that a vehicle is not sold and they can get something equivelant back, most dealers will be willing to trade a vehicle.

    Ken
  • As stated earlier, there is no release of official pricing for options or other models other than the base CE. I will post whatever pricing information I can get as I get it, though.

    As for deposits for incoming vehicles, each dealership sets its own policy. Some may be willing to just have a signed buyer's order (not likely), while others would require a hefty deposit. So the best way to go about finding this out is to contact that particular dealership.

    Ken
  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,447
    You hear people say how invaluable AWD is and how they would not trust their family to anything else, yet many of those same people do not put snow tires on their car in the winter (some do - and they are indeed kings of the proverbial hill).

    FWD with traction control and snow tires is far better than AWD and standard all season tires. AWD only helps for accelerating, whereas snow tires help with acceleration, and braking (as well as turning). The most important thing your vehicle can do to save your life is to stop. Climbing up a steep mountainside may be what sells AWD, but coming back down is much more dangerous, and AWD does nothing to help you there.

    If you really need AWD just to get around you should not be driving on the roads, and in fact where I live (SD) the roads always close well before I start to have any trouble with FWD and snow tires. The car I usually drive is a little Integra that weighs about 1,800 lbs less than the Sienna (weight helps with traction) and does not have traction control or much ground clearance. A Sienna with FWD and snows will do fine, and traction control will make it even better still.
  • First, thanks to the great info by all. I have been lurking on these boards since I was trying to find out the pre-release info on the 1999 Odyssey and then the 2001 Acura MDX. Ended up with both in their fist month of release. Hopefully our overzealous moderator won't remove this post due to the off topic lead in ;-)

    On the Sienna pricing, the Odyssey had much different market conditions than the Sienna will have. The Odyssey was the lone import van that could compete size wise while raising the bar in several areas. At the time, the only new entry was the Windstar - which has failed on many levels. Over the years, little has come out to challenge the Odyssey.

    The market conditions the Sienna will enter are much different with substantial competition. All new in the next 8 months - 04 Sienna, 04 Ford Windstar, 04 Mercury Monterey, 04 Nissan Quest, 04 Odyssey, not to mention the crossover's. While I am very interested in the new Sienna, the supply and demand equation should be much more favorable this summer/fall. Even if the posters here might cringe at the mention of the Quest or Ford products, those new product introductions will help balance demand. MSRP+ for several years? Doubtful.

    IMO, if you can wait until fall, the options and demand conditions should be favorable - even on the Sienna.

    DC
  • I haven't been in contact w/ any dealers, figured it wasn't going to be doing me any good and I can get better info here. I'll play it by ear before contacting dealers.

    BTW, I could have sworn I saw one of the 2004 Quests driving the other way in Vt. this weekend, but sorry, didn't stop and turn around to check it out. Didn't get a good enough look at it to be sure, but it looked big and sure looked like it had those bizarro headlights and front grill.

    Hmmm... rainbow, isn't he the one that passed on that rumor about the AWD Siennas being delayed? The same model that is clearly shown on the first delivery sheets that Ken and Jack have posted?
  • Karen_CMKaren_CM Posts: 5,018
    Off topic posts in a "hot" discussion most often tend to disrupt and cause confusion. Sometimes this is done intentionally by unscrupulous souls seeking some sort of entertainment or possible gain from the chaos that may ensue.

    When the commments get personal...I step in. And that is what this off topic post is all about. Please ignore any seemingly outrageous claims/comments and avoid posting personal jabs. Please do continue discussing the 2004 Sienna.

    Thanks for your cooperation. If you have any questions/concerns, please direct them to me via email.

    Community Manager If you have any questions or concerns about the Forums, send me an email, karen@edmunds.com, or click on my screen name to send a personal message.

  • AWD is needed in some areas of the country- my wife works about 20 miles south of Buffalo, and she can leave for work when it is sunny & by the time she gets to work there's a full blown blizzard, the weather service doesn't always get it right around here!
    I think that the 04 Sienna will answer a lot of prayers for those of us who have wives & family that drive through these "Snow belts". As far as "staying off the roads" around Buffalo, that's simply not an option. The new Sienna will be the favorite among a lot of soccer moms!
  • I am once again thankful for this great debate of pros and cons regarding AWD vs. FWD. I am learning alot here. And, windstarloser, I have a "secret" dealership that I'm planning on going to...so I won't steal your sienna!

    Has anyone ever checked out the Consumer Reports "New Car Price Report"? I ordered one last year (~$12) for the '02 sienna and found it very helpful. You can order one by calling 800-205-2445 or order online at ConsumerReports.org/carprices/new6
    It provides info on the "real" prices of everything from MSRP, dealer invoice price, Consumer Reports wholesale price (which is determined by subtracting dealer incentive $ and dealer holdback $ from dealer invoice price - and Consumer Reports suggests that you start negotiating from that total). It also provides the invoice and MSRP costs of all options and option packages, and explains what those mysterious dealer incentives and dealer holdback are, if there are any in effect at the moment, and what they're worth. It also provides lots of other data, like safety statistics, etc. In short (which as you can tell is not my forte..), it gives pricing information that a dealer NEVER would. When I called a few dealers in my vicinity last year to discus buying an '02sienna, the lies they told were jaw dropping! When I posed some of the info that I learned from that report (of course without telling them my source, but rather pitting one dealer against another....2 can play, right?!), they stumbled and limped toward a better price, or said some obviously flagrant additional lie. I realize that the Consumer Report report may have some flaws and even misinformation, but it at least arms you with something; some sort of water pistol as you approach the 4 alarm fire of the dealer. Toyotaken, you seem to be a saint among them. I just might show up in Buffalo sometime this summer. Thank heavens for my toyota pickup; it is still going strong (even though I leave a little piece of its deteriorating body wherever I park..)(at least I never get lost..) and I will be able to hold out until I get the blessed '04 sienna that I want, at a semi-decent and fair price , I HOPE.
  • Hello everyone. I was wondering if anyone knows what the towing capacity will be for the '04 Sienna. Thanks!

    OT
  • Are you sure you're not my twin brother? :)

    "Personally I have owned more hondas than Toyotas, and love my Honda Mower, Power washer, and generator. Best motors."

    Same here...I've owned three Accords, still own a Honda mower and generator! The Sequoia was my first Toyota.

    overtime-check out the faxed pages on my site and you'll find all the info there.

    Jack
    Bowellville Garage
    Toyota Minisite
  • Karen, perhaps you can add to the discussion. Do you know when the press quiet period is going to be lifted by Toyota on the 04 Sienna? I'm sure Edmunds has a first drive article all cued up to post, but can't post or publish until ???? Any idea?
  • Hello everyone. I was wondering if anyone knows what the towing capacity will be for the '04 Sienna. Thanks!

    OT
  • Karen_CMKaren_CM Posts: 5,018
    Unfortunately, the hosts are not informed in advance of any breaking news or reviews that the editorial team may/may not be holding. We have to wait like everyone else till it is published.

    Sorry I can't be more helpful.

    Community Manager If you have any questions or concerns about the Forums, send me an email, karen@edmunds.com, or click on my screen name to send a personal message.

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