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Comments
Olizer, who cares what you care?
All of us here on this discussion are entitled to express or believe or think whatever we want.
If you disagree, then you are entitled to voice your opinion, but don't rudely bash or scrutinize anyone's comments on this post.
I laughed my head off about your post!
A few years ago I heard a car magazine editor say that he was driving the Infinti Q45 and he was side by side with an LS400; then they stared off each other and when the light turned green they both floored it. I can't remember who won but I would never floor my Lexus LS400 either. However, perhaps just being a guy, I do always want to know how fast a car (or minivan) is going 0-60.
Yeah, I guess everyone has different priorities and we don't always agree, but it's fun to see how others think around here. According to Toyota, the Sienna can go 0-60 in 8.5 seconds, right? I wonder if anyone has actually tested it just to be sure--not that it would make any difference. I believe bearpamplin when he said that he and the Sienna driver did a little drag racing and that he beat the Sienna, which makes me wonder if the Sienna's 0-60 speed is accurate, not that it really matters of course. It's a shame that I would have to qualify or justify the innocent comments I make, but maybe I need to, not that I have of course. I saw different figures for the Odyssey regarding the 0-60 speed, so I kind of wonder about that. Perhaps different tires make a big difference in the acceleration speed: Dunlop tires versus Michellan. Or maybe not. I'm not a speed demon person.
Isn't it a fact that lately especially, American-made Toyotas have declined in quality? For example, Consumer Reports gives the 2002 Camry only gets an "Average" reliability ranking.
http://www.consumerreports.org/main/detailv2.jsp?CONTENT%3C%3Ecnt- - _id=298891&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=156209
The 2004 Sienna sure looks enticing, but I was just wondering if anybody thought of long term reliability amidst all the excitement.
The third row was even worse than anticipated for us. The wheel well looked like plastic or composite, and would be totally incapable of supporting a wheelchair hoist. There wasn't any solid floor space at all in the rear of the van.
The exterior styling was also not pleasing to us. Windows looked small and were dominated by the metal. The front panel was separated by a line over the wheels.
Both my wife and I were so disappointed that we declined a test drive. We immediately went to evaluate an '03 on the lot. We will probably buy one today if possible.
The van was much more disappointing than anticipated.
BTW - The sales staff was extremely irritating. They were hanging around the car while they waited for customers. I couldn't get out of my vehicle before they were all around us. When one went to get a key, another started the hard sale. We just wanted to look at the van. It was not a pleasant experience. My wife mentioned the Saturn philosophy in the car as we drove away. Let people look at the car without the noise!
Toyota has FINALLY updated their Candian website with info about the 04 Sienna. These prices have probably been posted already, but this is straight from the horse's mouth:
FWD CE 7 $30,000
FWD CE 8 $31,000
FWD LE 7 $34,750
FWD LE 8 $35,180
FWD XLE 7 $39,160
FWD LE 7 $43,600
AWD XLE 7 $46,700
For those of you who live in provinces with Access pricing, there doesn't appear to be any discount from MSRP (not that Access saved you much anyway).
A friend visited the largest dealership in town this week and was told none would be arriving before the end of the month.
There's a goofy little movie on the website as well that seems to be promoting both a kid band I've never heard of and the Sienna. Not sure if the band is legit, but who cares. It's a weird combination anyway. The only thing I liked about the clip was that it gives a demo of one of the kids folding the 3rd rows seats. Looked real easy. This strange production is called "Kids Rock Kids Talk" or something like that.
Any ideas?
OT
If you want to get a good deal you have to try out of the big cities where minivans are popular.
E-mail me outside the board if you are interested tom@franklins.info in the specific dealer contact in Wyoming. I think this dealer was more receptive to my offer as I am a repeat customer, but you never know.
Getting that deal shouldn't be too difficult if you shop around a bit. Especially if you wait a month or so for things to cool off.
A year and a half ago I bought a Highlander when they were very difficult to find bargains on. The dealers in Denver, where I live, would bargain down to MSRP, but would make you pay for garbage like Toyogard. None would do a special order, which is what I wanted.
To get this deal, I did an e-mail offereing $500 over invoice plus TDA to about 30 dealerships within a few hour drive from Denver. Be sure to state exactly what you want in the e-mail so they take you seriously.
I received two acceptances within a hour and a couple more in the next couple of days. There were dealers wanting to do the deal in Colorado, Nebraska and Wyoming. Most of the dealers were in small towns where pickups are more popular than a Highlander (or Sienna for that matter). This is an e-mail variation of the well known blast-fax technique.
BTW: Wyoming charges the same TDA as Denver.
Does anyone own a Yukon/Tahoe or other SUV and is considering switching to the Sienna. Could you let me know why the change? Anyone else having this delema?
Thanks
I find the Tahoe acceptable, though nearly every single one has to have an $800 intake put in by 80,000 miles. What a shame! It is hard to beat as a towing vehicle. It rides fairly well for a big truck.
The main reason for the Sienna is that getting three young kids in the back of either the LS400 or Tahoe is a real pain in the back. Carting children in the Sienna will be much easier. My wife likes the SUV like feel of the new Sienna - sitting up high in a vehicle that seems as wide as our Tahoe. The Sienna seems to have a higher quality interior than the Tahoe as well.
And of course, there is the mileage issue. While we can afford the gas, it does seem wasteful in many ways. I'd prefer to have the Sienna in place of the Tahoe but we can't get rid of it due to the need to tow things.
It might come down to the fact that we infrequently tow a 3000lb boat...pulling it out of the water or loading it down with crap to haul around would probably put us over the recommended 3500lbs.
Here is a question - which vehicle does everything think will be safer with a luggage rack in place on the roof?
Decision, decisions.
OT
WIth a awd alternative on a minivan, for most people the idea is to stay ON THE ROAD rather than the macho activity found on tough truck commercials. Our ML is quite capable of doing lots of cool things, but that is not what we need the thing for. The minivan image is a funny one and we struggle with it. We had two previously, but an SUV with 3 rows has been good. But we need more room and only a suburban can give us Minivan type room. But a great penalty of MPG and space makes it unessasary for us. I don't want to berate the SUV crowd, but I personally don't want to add to our foreign dependance of oil.
The new volvo suv is really a car. ITs nice, but we find its smallish inside . Rides nice and looks great, but for long trips with kids we'd like more flexability. Murano, Ml, tourag, etc are really nice vehicles!
If you have towing needs, then you need a towing vehicle. The Sienna for us answers a need we required a few years ago, which was awd for getting back and forth during ski season. Living in the county outside our city, the roads are not as groomed in the winter as they are in town and also furthering the need for awd.
Our choices thus far are the pending Pacifica and Sienna awd.
Gotta drive them both.
Steve, Host
Toyota 04 Sienna Volvo XC90
XLE limited AWD T6 AWD
Dimension
Length: 200.0" 188.9"
Width: 77.4" 74.7"
Height: 68.9" 70.2"
Wheelbase: 119.3" 112.5"
Engine 3.3 l V6 2.9 l twin-turbo V6
Horsepower: 230 268
Torque: 242 280
Automatic: 5-speed 4-speed
Emission: ULEV-II ULEV
0-60mph ? (8.4s for FWD) ? 8.8s
Fuel Economy
City/Highway: 18/24 mpg 15/20 mpg
(US gallons)
Suspension
Front: Independent MacPherson struts
Rear: Torsion Beam Multilink Independent Suspension
Brakes: Discs/Discs Discs/Discs
Front Track: 65.9" 64.3"
Rear Track: 67.3" 63.9"
Ground Clearance: 6.9" 8.9"
Turning Circle: 36.8 ft 39 ft
Interior Dimensions (inches)
Head Room
Front: 39.5 39.7
Second Row: 38.6 38.4
Third Row: 38.1 35.5
Shoulder Room
Front: 63.8 58.3
Second Row: 64.9 57.4
Third Row: 61.1 N/A
Hip Room
Front: 58.4 55.1
Second Row: 67.5 54.1
Third Row: 51.8 N/A
Leg Room
Front: 42.9 41.0
Second Row: 39.6 34.6
Third Row: 39.5 30.1
Cargo Volume (cu. ft.)
Behind Front: 148.9 85.1
Behind 2nd Row: 94.5 43.3
Behind 3rd Row: 43.6 11.1
Curb Weight: 4365 lb 4791 lb
Towing: 3500 lb 5000 lb
Seat belt
pretensioner: Front seats &a
pretensioner: Front seats All seats
ISOFIX/LATCH: 4 2
Features common to both cars:
AWD, ABS, Brake Assist (EBA), Brake Distribution (EBD),
Electronic Stability Control (ESP - Sienna's VSC, XC90's DSTC),
Side Guard Curtain including 3rd row, HID Xenon,
fold flat 3rd row
Unique features
XC90: WHIPS, Roll Stability Control, Boron Steel Roof,
laminated side glass, fold flat 2nd row
Sienna: Tire Pressure Monitor, Laser dynamic cruise control,
front+rear parking sonar, two 115V AC outlets, power rear hatch,
2 power sliding doors, windshield wiper de-icer grid,
run-flat tires, reclining seats for both 2nd and 3rd row
Cost: XC90 costs at least 21% more than Sienna in Canada.
Safety: no crash tests for both cars.
Volvo predicts best results for SUVs. Features look convincing enough.
Old model Sienna best in class when it first came out. Toyota predicts best in class for new Sienna; and one of the best in any class.
Reliability: hard to say as both are new cars. But my bet would be Toyota
being more reliable than Volvo.
Volvo will have superior handling.
Another thing to consider, SUVs is at much higher risk as a car theft and car jacking target; as SUV is "in" and "cool".
I guess I am trying my hardest to hold onto that cool dad image. It gets harder each year. I always wanted a large SUV but have procrastinated for many years but know I am ready.
Unfortunately, during the same period Vans have become much better and due to environment issues and gas prices, it's becoming difficult to rationalize the SUV. Also, rather than feeling cool so to speak, you have a feeling like everyone is pointing the finger at you for polluting the environment.
The mpg issue, for me anyway, is not that big an issue. When I calculate annual costs based on expected mileage the cost difference is minimal. Also, vehicles like the Volvo and other smaller SUV's, than the Yukon I am considering, the MPG extremely similar.
My wife likes the Volvo but as someone else pointed out - it's pricey. The Volvo we priced was $65k ($Cdn) with no bargaining room. The Sienna XLE AWD is $47k-$49k again with no bargaining room. The Yukon SLT with the options I want is $56k but I can get it for $49k or less.
So price wise I should get the vehicle I always wanted, Right? However, the new Sienna is much more practical, more comfortable for the family, quieter, better mpg, more reliable, probable will have a better resale value, roomier, easier to put kids in and out of and now they had to add AWD. Crap!
Do I sound frustrated I would love to win that lottery so I could purchase both and not have to deal with this decision/frustration.
To me, it's either Sequoia, Sienna, or Odyssey.
Don't you think the Volvo is a little too small to be compared to the Sienna or Yukon?
If it's pure interior roominess, then I would go for either Sienna or Odyssey. Just wait for about 6 more months and see the prices drop on the new Sienna. If not in 6 months, then 12 months. If not in 12 months, then screw it because by that time, the new Odyssey will be coming out.
Suv= Individualistic, rugged, hip
I had a 98 Sienna and the lease was up before the new Sienna came out. We got a Sequoia instead. We just saw the new Sienna at the Auto show. It is a great vehicle. But I think it is geared to families with small children. I'm glad I decided on the Sequoia.
Aren't you glad you have us to help make your buying decisions easier?
I guess that's another reason I'm glad I didn't get a Sequoia, although I din't think of it before.
Double the premium is too high plus the high cost of gasoline!
Okay, so if you're rich, go for the Lexus LX470 (about $70K with the $5K option) and who cares about gas and insurance.
If you're like the rest of us, get Sienna or Odyssey.
ITs a pig on gas.
Its way cool.
MDX - Also nice but I just find it to have no warmth inside. Very cramped and bland feeling IMO. Also like the Pilot, a bit on the small side for what I need/want.
Odyssey - Very nice, but I have driven many times and I just can't get over the noise level. Also, if I end up going the van route - AWD is a must, living in a climate that it will come in handy.
Maybe the new full size Nissan Pathfinder. Nissan will be revealing in April and it has three rows of seats. Fingers crossed, but most likely can't/don't want to wait until available.
Insurance...very good point! I better check out.
I am taking Friday off work to compare the Seinna and Yukon back to back. Hopefully will end up with a decision. If it's the Sienna, I'll wait until beginning of May which is the latest I can wait due to planned trip. Hopefully there will be a little discounting by then which always helps.
More I look at the Sienna, I more I like. I think I would sleep better with one over the Yukon but regretting at the same time. Really want my boy toy - only live once and have waited for so long to get. I can hear all the woman, my wife included, thinking "Men"! I think I agree with them all.
It seems strange to be comparing the XC90 and the AWD XLE Limited Sienna but I think more than a few people will be looking carefully at both of these vehicles. The both are AWD that can transport 7 people and do so without a truck-like ride and with comfortable high quality interiors.
The Sienna has considerably more cargo space but a lot of that is the vertical dimension that isn't used as frequently as the floor space. In my situation, I consider carrying dogs as well as people and normally I won't carry more than 5 people (commonly carry 5 people OR one adult and 3 kids). The XC90 can carry 5 people and put the dogs in the back area where the seats are folded down. The Sienna can only carry 5 people with one of the 3rd row seats upright which is a little awkward because there this huge pit behind the seat that is upright and a walkway for the dog to the front of the cab because of the space between the two second row seats - anyways - that seems unsafe to have a 120lb dog up around the kids area. Its probably never safe to have 120lb dog in a car but certain configurations are better than others.
So part of the choice is just a logistical issue. If we are going on a trip with 3 kids and 2 dogs we won't be able to fit much luggage in the interior of either vehicle anyways (roof rack needed in either case). Creating a 'wall' of stuff in the Sienna might be practical but its also dangerous. That is where the vertical dimension really doesn't help that much. Gas mileage is 15/20 v. 17/22...not big enough to really sway us either way.
As for the Sequoia...we like it but it is a truck and has a truck like ride. It is actually very flexible in terms of seating arrangements but it gets horrible gas mileage and the interior quality isn't as nice as either the Sienna or the XC90.
The Pilot is a nice car as well (suprisingly low quality interior tho) but without third row airbags (or the mass of the Sequoia) it really isn't an option (MDX eliminated for that same reason). Both of those cars are about the same size as the XC90 (not sure why people think the Pilot is bigger).
Its still a tough choice between the Sienna and the XC90...my wife and I are leaning towards the xc but we see the good things in the Sienna as well.
OT
- MDX: no side guard curtain, no EBA, no Xenon
- Pilot: No ESP/VSC/VSA in addition to above
- Sequoia: is 3rd row safe? They look too close to the back - hardly any crumble zoom. The XC90 and Sienna are designed to have 3rd row; but Sequoia's 3rd row somehow looks more like a last minute add-on. It is also bigger, heavier, and less room inside.
- Odyssey redesign: no one knows when this would happen, there are rumours that it may have been pushed back to 2005:
http://www.collegehillshonda.com/funstuff/honda2003.htm
Actually gas mileage is 18/24 for the Sienna, and 19/27 for the FWD which also has three accross seating in the middle row so you can seat 5 and have the whole back open.
A FWD Sienna with snow tires and traction control will have no problem with winter weather. AWD is hardly necessary. If the weather is so bad that you "need" AWD to get around, then you absolutely should not even be out driving.
The roads are closed where I live (SD) well before I start having problems with FWD and snow tires, and that is with a 2,600 lb car that does not have traction control or ABS. Remember the best thing your vehicle can do on bad roads is stop, and AWD does not help you with that.
Don't do something just because everyone else thinks it's more practical. Screw practicality--go for the dream car. If you buy a minivan instead of what you really want (SUV), you may very well regret it and then you'll say, "why did I listen to everyone else?" You work hard for your money, you deserve it, man!
Just make sure you get good warranty on your Yukon.
I would almost be afrain to drive one of those things these days - depending on where you live.
Remember when people used to throw red paint on fur coats!
look at the volvo 3rd row leg room look at any suv 3rd row seat access and leg room, then try to get a 55 y/o in the 3rd seat. inlaws like to come with grandchildren. so minivan is the key. is it cool, maybe not, but my back, and hassle level will be lower. now i just have to choose toyota vs honda. and i won't decide till fall when any changes to the honda will be announced. more games. the honda needs xenon lights, more upgrades,power lift gate front and rear parking assist, AND MUCH QUIETER. i wish i could get my options like i wanted and not want. i don't want the moonroof. i do want dvd but not have to spend 7k of options to get it. maybe this will happen. toyota listen up or honda will be the value leader.
As some people already mentioned, there was significant "hesitation" in acceleration, and the engine sounds very rough. The sounds feels like it is a GM engine, not Toyota's. I just can not imagine they can put this engine in RX330 and ES330.
The road noise was minimal, but there was some wind noise.
Since Toyota does not have any "hot" product now, the dealer is trying to make as much as possible from Sienna. But I don't think they charge MSRP for long.
Frankly, I think AWD combined with active traction/roll control to be an important safety feature in any climate. I wouldn't put winter tires on the car because I don't live where there is snow but I frequently visit places where there is snow.
I'm also not interested in the lower trim level Siennas so it really is a moot point. Thanks for the correction on the gas mileage though...they changed those numbers when they updated the website (used to say 17/22).
OT
I was amazed to find out that every single model you choose comes with "option" packages that are not optional. According to the web site, this is how they are equipped to your neck of the wood. So don't expect to find anything like LE only. Expect about $1000 to $2000 worth of mandatory options, plus whatever dealer add-ons.
I took the first step and test-drove the Yukon after work. It wasn't the first time but it's been well over a year. Bloody nice but it does drive very truck-like which is evident particularly over bumps. Otherwise, seems very powerful and quiet and I felt great driving it. I am 6'1" 200lbs and I love the size of the seats - very supportive.
I then drove over to Toyota for a look at the Sienna. Climbed around an LE. There was an XLE locked up outside that I could only peak into.
The LE, was okay but no chills going down my spine. I arranged to for a test-drive on Wed and will have a better look at the XLE which looks great inside.
Truthfully I hope the XLE blows me away when I drive it.
Vans
SUVs vs. Minivans
Thanks for your cooperation!
I checked out the SUV/Van discussion and learned alot about Windstars vs Excursions and other makes. The problem I have is that I am specifically looking for info/experience on the new Sienna relative to an SUV I am considering - this board seems to have members with the best advice/experience on this topic.
I have found posts related specifically to the new Sienna fit well here because this is a Sienna audience, not other (van) makes.
I don't want to get into an argument about semantics, however, since the 2004 Sienna is now available at various dealerships, it really is no longer a "future model". Therefore, discussion concerning the 2004 should move to the Vans board. If you have purchased a 2004, or own an earlier Sienna model, you're more than welcome to hang out in Toyota Sienna Owners.