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Toyota Tundra vs. Chevrolet Silverado

bamatundrabamatundra Posts: 1,583
edited March 6 in Chevrolet
I am starting this discussion because of the following post:

"Mpalombo by bamatundra May 14, 2002 (08:30 am)
I am glad that you want to have an adult conversation. I am afraid that the Silverado owners in this topic really do not want to know the facts about Tundra vs. Chev. I don't want to start a flame war, so why don't you start a new topic? Something like "Tundra vs. Silverado" I would be glad to give you my opinion in an appropriate topic.
Thanks. "

Please try to keep this discussion civil and avoid personal attacks. Thankyou.
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Comments

  • quadrunner500quadrunner500 Posts: 2,728
    ...already have ALL the facts on Tundra. It's a certified lemon according to facts obtained by the Center for Auto Safety, from the NTHSA, one of the 25 worst vehicles for customer complaints to the government.

    2002 LEMON LIST

    1-800-LEMON-LAW

    You have nothing to lose except your LEMON

    Lemon Survival Kit

    To get rid of your LEMON, click here
  • h0udinih0udini Posts: 118
    contender if it was engineered and built by Toyota. I've no doubt it's a good truck when everything is working as it should. But I'm not going to pay $30K on a new "Fischer-Price" truck that has the same overall quality, feel and problems of a truck with a lot of years and hard miles on it.

    Quadrunner500, perhaps the GMC folks don't have the time to call the NHTSA and file complaints - they're too busy haggling with lawyers, the BBB, GMC arbitration boards and trying to unload their GMCs. Not to mention creating their own GMC lemon websites, of which there is almost a complete lack of when we look at Tundra websites.
  • kcowboykcowboy Posts: 33
    Anything made by gm is a lemon, especially in the pickup department. Just check your local classifieds and see how many people are trying to unload them. Even Consumer Reports rate them as a vehicle to avoid. Good luck on this one now.
  • bamatundrabamatundra Posts: 1,583
    Yeah, that blank post of yours pretty much sums it up! Why did Consumer Reports rate your truck as a used vehicle to avoid? Is it because of its superior quality?

    Why didn't your silverado make the list? The list shows the F150 as number one (least troublesome). There are fifty other trucks after that. Where is the silverado? You keep refusing to answer this simple question. What is the deal?
  • losangelesemtlosangelesemt Posts: 279
    It was only a matter of time ... let's see where this one goes.
  • hillhoundhillhound Posts: 537
    http://www.trucktrend.com/editorial/adev_article_popup.jsp?id=30189&sidebar=1


    The Tundra got outaccelerated loaded/empty by the GM1500. Silverado/Sierra has a larger box and ext cab and can be had with a substantially higher factory tow rating. The Tundra's brakes show superior performance but they have been plagued with problems. Heck-we all assumed the Tundra would be a higher quality truck since it's a Toyota platform but the recent discovery of http://www.lemonlaw.com/lemonlist.html has left this issue up for debate.


    And Bama-you've been unable to prove the point you're tyring to make concerning that Lemon List. I don't agree with you, and until you can post more info to prove your point I don't believe you.


    Just think about what you're saying-if what you claim is true the Lemon List is really just the second half of the 50 best autos?? C'mon Bama! All you have to do is show us the ranking of vehicles that are below those 50 and I'll admit I'm wrong. You keep refusing to address this simple request...why??

    And BTW-I predict this thread will be closed in a day or two.

  • bamatundrabamatundra Posts: 1,583
    I guess that you just can't admit when you are wrong!

    There are fifty vehicles listed from best to worst. The silverado did not even make the list! It is a pretty simple deduction that the fifty vehicles on the list are more reliable than your Chev.

    Get real man! Smell the roses! The silverado is below the Tundra on the list. I am amazed that you keep posting a list that shows the Tundra is superior to the silverado!

    Keep posting it - it shows how really weak the silverado is. You are a Tundra owner's best advocate.
  • abc246abc246 Posts: 305
    You are reading the list wrong. The Silverado is actually better according to that list.
  • bamatundrabamatundra Posts: 1,583
    I didn't see the silverado anywhere on that list. Are you sure you are looking at the same list? Where is the silverado ranked on your imaginary list? Should be an easy question - I predict total silence.
  • hillhoundhillhound Posts: 537
    I think this is the original list/info:
    Top 25 Best and Worst Vehicles The Center for Auto Safety analyzed complaints made to the government by Americans having problems with their vehicles. Below are the models that received the fewest complaints, and those that received the most. Models introduced in 2000 and 2001 are not represented due to a lack of data.

    Best (Fewest complaints) Worst (Most complaints)
    1. Ford F-Series 1. Mazda MPV
    2. BMW 3 Series 2. Kia Sportage
    3. BMW 5 Series 3. Ford Excursion
    4. Volkswagen Golf 4. Ford Windstar
    5. Mazda Truck 5. Mercury Cougar
    6. Volvo C70 6. Volvo S40
    7. Volkswagen Beetle 7. Honda Passport
    8. Nissan Sentra 8. Honda S2000
    9. Infiniti G20 9. Mitsubishi Eclipse
    10. Acura RL 10. Isuzu Rodeo
    11. Saab 9-5 11. Ford Explorer
    12. Chevrolet Prizm 12. Land Rover Range Rover
    13. Toyota Corolla 13. Audi A6
    14. Infiniti QX4 14. Hyundai Tiburon
    15. Nissan Altima 15. Honda Odyssey
    16. Lexus RX300 16. Lincoln LS
    17. Nissan Maxima 17. Jeep Grand Cherokee
    18. Acura TL 18. Volkswagen Passat
    19. Saab 9-3 19. Buick LeSabre
    20. Pontiac Bonneville 20. Suzuki Grand Vitara
    21. Mazda Millenia 21. Chevrolet Blazer
    22. Mazda 626 22. Chevrolet Impala
    23. Lincoln Town Car 23. Toyota Tundra
    24. Ford Focus 24. Dodge Dakota
    25. Honda Accord 25. Dodge Neon

    Make what you will of it. I concluded that any auto not on one of the two lists falls somewhere in the middle.
  • lariat1lariat1 Posts: 461
    How dare you use common sense when reading that table.
  • bamatundrabamatundra Posts: 1,583
    Hillhound is telling me that there is a demilitarized zone between the 25 best and the 25 worst trucks. This is the "Chevy zone". Wow!- I'm glad that Hillhound cleared that up for me.
  • kg11kg11 Posts: 530
    what are you saying?there are worse vehicles than the 25 worst?
  • bamatundrabamatundra Posts: 1,583
    KG: "what are you saying?there are worse vehicles than the 25 worst?"

    Now you are getting it!!! - and you are driving it. Man! it sure took a long time to teach the silverado owners this simple fact.
  • kg11kg11 Posts: 530
    If you lack the ability to reason,don't try it.
  • bamatundrabamatundra Posts: 1,583
    What are you saying - that GM vehicles exist in the "twilight zone"? They are on some non-existent "Chevy" list? Why would this be? You are not making a lot of sense here.

    If there is a list of 25 vehicles, doesn't it make sense that the Chev would be below the bottom of the list? I am having a hard time realizing your problem with accepting this simple fact.
  • kg11kg11 Posts: 530
    does your '52 chevy still have the original engine?How about the tranny?Springs?Punkin?Does it have brakes?Is it still 6 volt?Can it be driven on public streets?Does it have the original head gasket?Is it rust free?

    Just curious what a truck that's worked 50 years looks and runs like.

    kip
    Good luck my friend
  • bamatundrabamatundra Posts: 1,583
    While I am sure that the '52 chev you own is far better quality, reliability and capability than the new-fangled shakerados - what does this say about new Chevs? A '52 is a better truck?

    Wow! - I am amazed a so called GM owner would admit this.

    Good Luck on this one now!
  • losangelesemtlosangelesemt Posts: 279
    Truthteller ... always around to share some good ole farm wisdom.

    Guys I dont know what the heck all the fuss is about the 25 best and worst list, cause I havent read any of the posts above. Pretty simple though right ... if a car doesnt appear on worst list then its obviously ranked better and if it didnt appear on best list, then it obviously ranks poorer right ??? Or in other words .. somewhere in the middle.

    BTW ... its a sad day when the beloved Toyota Tundra Problems thread is laid to rest lol. Let's see how much we have learned in this one.
  • twowheelertwowheeler Posts: 89
    I applaud CR for coming forth about the bunk cheapo trinkets that they gave to 15,000 new subscribers, and issuing a defect notice on the items, instead of trying to hide it (apparently a classic case of the marketing department not communicating with the engineering department). They also offered an additional 6 months free subscription to the affected subscribers.

    This clearly shows that the organization has quite a bit of integrity (i.e. being able to admit a mistake, trying to mitigate the mistake, then offering apologies and a token of compensation for the mistake). Unlike some other companies that we (or certain individuals on this thread) know all too well, they did the right thing. They are a very credible organization - Most product evaluations that they perform are as objective as you can get. Of course, they are not perfect, but they have more hits than misses. Just ask Oby on this. He bought a Packard Bell computer based their recommendation. That was probably a miss, but Oby, that PB wasn't the highest recommended model-it was mid-range in the scores.

    Regarding Tundra vs. GM Sliverado: CR rates the Tundra as "recommended" and gives it a big red cherry (highest)rating. The GM product gets a big black mark (lowest score)for reliability and CR, although states that the GM is a good performing truck, cannot recommend it because of its poor reliability.

    On a different note, in the current Car and Driver mag (June issue), they did a long term test of a 6 liter 2001 GMC Sierra C3 AWD. They lightly reported on several "nits" that they experienced with the truck (so as not to piss off GM too much). Transmission quirks, "clicking"/"ticking" (knocking?) from the engine on cold starts that the Dealer service techs "weren't able to isolate and quell." Oil consumption of 3 quarts in 40,000 miles (I'm not sure if this is excessive?) and the "check oil" light would flash on ocassionally. Does CR and C&D have something in common here regarding GM products ? Hmmm....
  • h0udinih0udini Posts: 118
    could be a great truck if it had better reliability and quality associated with it. But that's just not the case, and it's the painful truth. CR can't recommend it, Edmunds thrashed it in their long term review, and the internet is saturated with GMC lemon websites and problem threads. And the funny thing is all these sources seem to be consistent and similar. There's nothing coincidental or anectodal about GMCs poor ratings.

    And to make matters worse, we have the issue of GMC's diesel engines. They're the only manufacturer that screwed up royally with their diesels and have had to change their entire diesel engine line-up. I can't tell you exactly how long Dodge has used their Cummins, or how long Ford has used their PSD, but we all know it's been a long time and they're proven, damn good engines. Chevy is the only manufacturer of the Big 3 that developed a horrible diesel, discontinued it, then sought the assistance of a Japanese (though 49% owned by GMC) manufacturer. Such a track record doesn't reflect favorably upon GMC, no doubt.

    Either way you go with GM, gas or diesel, you're taking a bigger gamble than with Dodge (known for bad trannys, except the manual) or especially Ford. Their diesel offering isn't nearly as tried and proven as Dodge's or Ford's, and their gassers knock like diesels.

    If I needed a 1/2 ton truck right now, the Tundra would be a viable option, especially over the GMC 1/2 tons. Workability means nothing if the reliability isn't there. But the cold, hard truth is if you're going to be towing 6000lbs+, even if the 1/2 tons are advertised as being able to do so, you simply should go to a 3/4 ton. That's what I did, and I don't regret if for a second. In short, I wouldn't attempt to try anything with a Silverado that I wouldn't also expect a Tundra to do.

    And as far as this nonsense goes about the "lemon-list" from attorneys Kimmel and Silverman, what can I say? The GMC folks are concentrating all their efforts on this list, as it's the only thing they've found in their favor. But really, what's the more creditable source? Two lawyers advertising online trying to make a buck, or thousands of disgruntled GMC customers participating in online GMC lemon websites?
  • ndahi12ndahi12 Posts: 235
    in their favor. A list from two lawyers (read liars) that is based on phone calls to NHTSA that ONLY these two lairs have access two. How convenient!!! So NHTSA allows all the people who own a vehicle to post complaints to their web site, but NHTSA does not share the same info with the public since it is recieved by phone. Where is the logic in all this?

    Then there is Quad and his list that is from CAS, but he cannot post a link to it on the CAS web site to save his life. Why is that Quad? If the list is a CAS list, why is it not available on their web site as a news release?

    What do the Tundra owners have:

    1. CR for two years running have rated the Tundra number one in reliability and recommends it while not recommending the Rado.

    2. JD Power has given the Tundra the number one spot in initial quality for two years in a row.

    3. The NHTSA complaint page is REPLETE with complaints about the Rado, while the Tundra has a few. The 02 Tundra has 2 complaints, while the 02 Rado has 29.
  • h0udinih0udini Posts: 118
    the internet is saturated with GMC lemon sites and problem threads, while the Tundra is generally praised by their owners. I personally place more value on owners' comments and opinions than online advertisements from California lawyers...
  • obyoneobyone Posts: 8,065
    I've read what you've been posting over the past couple of days. While your logic to support Toyota has some merit, you lack credibility based on your repeated GM issues of which you don't have any first hand experience nor does it appear likely that you have any with any make of truck. Than being said , I guess this if the first and last I will acknowledge any of your posts.


    twowheeler


    FYI, I did not buy a Packard Bell. Get the fact's straight. My point was CR is good for what blender or maybe even lawnmower, as far as vehicles are concerned, I don't even bother with them as there are far better resources available. But you already know this right?


    ndahi


    It's called the FOIA. The Tundra problems are far too numerous to list. If you want the complete list, all you have to do is a request under FOIA. Course you will have to acknowledge that you will be responsible for any copying, mailing, or research fees which accompany your request. Hre's a link to the FOIA with the CIA in case you have any questions you'd like to ask them:


    http://www.foia.ucia.gov/default.asp


    The point being that you can request any info from any government organization under the FOIA. Then again, you knew this right? BTW, your condenscending attitude is not appreciated nor does it belong here.

  • tomh12tomh12 Posts: 240
    You sure hit the target with that last post!!

    I have been paying attention to what vehicles I see towing, lately. I have noticed you find lots of Toyotas in college towns, and not too many in between. Just returned from 3788 mile, two week, 3 wild turkey trip. East Coast to NW Arkansas, back through Alabama,(didn't see our favorite resident), Georgia, SC, NC, and VA. Did not see ONE Toyota Tundra towing anything on the highways. Did see one taco hooked up to about a 16' flat bottom boat....It was broke down beside HWY 58 in Southern VA. LOTS of Silverados and Ford products towing. Not as many, but several Dodge trucks towing. Heaviest thing I saw loaded on a Toyota was a 17' Old Towne canoe near the Buffalo River in the Ozarks of NW Arkansas.
    Good luck on this one now!
    Tom
  • bamatundrabamatundra Posts: 1,583
    I never saw a GM or Chev towing anything! They are usually on the tow hook!

    Obyone's GM has been in the shop over 4 months. Quad had to trade his '99 lemon in. (Two intermediate steering shafts, leaking differential, leaking rear slider, etc. etc.

    I'm glad to see that TT has a groupie now. It is sort of cute.

    Good luck on this one now!
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 5,893
    Let's not fall into the same old same old, OK?


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  • tomh12tomh12 Posts: 240
    Has Toyota found what was causing that SLUDGE problem in their engines? I wonder how many Tundras have this well known Toyota problem? Also, what do you know about the Toyota Tundra knocking engine problem that keeps being talked about in other forums? What percentage of Tundras have this problem? Any help you can give me in clearing up my concern about these problems would be appreciated.
    Tom
  • bamatundrabamatundra Posts: 1,583
    In the two years that I have been following the Tundra topics - I have not seen a single case of sludge in Tundras. In fact - neither of the two engines affected (according to Toyota) are used in the Tundra.

    Tom - does YOUR Tundra have sludge? Just curious.

    Now - as far as knocking engines go - Chevy claims that it is perfectly normal for their engines to knock. Would you buy a vehicle knowing that it might knock and Chev will tell you that it is "normal".

    Just another clue that Chev really does not care about its customers. Does Chev really believe that its customers will buy its dog and pony show? I sure hope not.
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