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Toyota Tundra vs. Chevrolet Silverado

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  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    To be direct... see you in 3 years.

    The new Tundra's with the biggest rearend in the field is just hitting the street, fields this week. Go drive one. You will be shocked.
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Posts: 2,770
    Funny. Very funny. I think what you have to remember is that Ford, Chevy, and Dodge ALL offer LIGHT DUTY pickups that can tow FAR more than the Toyota. Yes, these are the 1 Ton versions of the SILVERADO, RAM, and F SERIES. However, if you want to compare the "TUNDRA" with the "SILVERADO", "F-SERIES", "RAM", etc, you have to compare ALL models in the lineup. Otherwise, offer the disclaimer that you are comparing 1/2 ton models ONLY!!! Also, metion that Toyota offers NOTHING MORE THAN A 1/2 TON, and NO DIESEL (It's coming doesn't cut it if someone wants one now). If you want to compare gas engines, both Ford and GM offer gas engines with FAR MORE TORQUE than the Tundra, and can be had in a 3/4 ton 2wd standard cab, not just a Dually (ALSO, something Toyota doesn't offer). BTW, Chevy DOES offer a 6 speed auto. It's made by ALLISON- a division of GM- and it's more bulletproof than ANY reputation Toyota thinks it has!!!
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Well that's exactly what I said in my post.

    If you need to tow more than what's shown in that chart then you need a diesel. For the present in the 1/2-ton segment the Tundra is the Boss in just about every performance category. The others are close ( Sierra ), in the middle ( Silvy /Titan ) or not in the same class ( F150 / Ram ).

    The GM/Isuzu DuraMax diesel with the Allison tranny is Boss in the diesel category.
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    "I think what you have to remember is that Ford, Chevy, and Dodge ALL offer LIGHT DUTY pickups that can tow FAR more than the Toyota. Yes, these are the 1 Ton versions of the SILVERADO, RAM, and F SERIES."

    Yes. The Tundra 1/2ton truck doesn't tow as much as the competition's 1 ton versions. SURPRISE!!!!

    "However, if you want to compare the "TUNDRA" with the "SILVERADO", "F-SERIES", "RAM", etc, you have to compare ALL models in the lineup. Otherwise, offer the disclaimer that you are comparing 1/2 ton models ONLY!!!"

    Fair enough.

    The new '07 1/2 ton Toyota Tundra compares very well with the new '07 1/2 GMC Sierra/Chevy Silverado. The new '07 1/2 ton Toyota Tundra is substantially better than the 1/2 ton offerings from Ford and Dodge.

    Disclaimer: these claims only apply to 1/2 ton models. Expect similar claims when Toyota releases HD versions of the Tundra. If someone wants a 1 ton or diesel truck NOW, they can skip the Toyota dealer.

    "If you want to compare gas engines, both Ford and GM offer gas engines with FAR MORE TORQUE than the Tundra, and can be had in a 3/4 ton 2wd standard cab, not just a Dually (ALSO, something Toyota doesn't offer)"

    I thought we were comparing 1/2 ton versions? Are you claiming that only 3/4 ton and above are "real" trucks?

    FYI - the 1/2 ton market in the this country is HUGE. The Toyota Tundra compares VERY favorably with other HALF TON trucks. Personally, I think it would behoove the domestic fans if they pressured their favorite makes to BUILD A BETTER HALF TON, rather than pointing out Toyota doesn't make a 3/4 or 1 ton.

    What will be your defense when Toyota DOES begin offering 3/4 and 1 ton models? That they don't build something equivalent to a F450?
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    I get a sense that some feel that they are being backed into a corner. 'Well OK the 1/2 segment isn't really that important anyway.'

    I think that the detroiters have intentionally let the 1/2 ton segment 'get stale' over the last 10 years because they had it all to themselves essentially. Hey if you want a 'real truck' get an HD diesel. These are also much more profitable for the 3 with a diesel markup of $5000 - $8000 over their top price for a 1/2-tonner.

    This letting a segment 'get stale' situation sounds awfully familiar to the midsized and compact auto situation of the 80's and 90's. 'Well these segments aren't that profitable anyway so we'll just let the Asians have them.'

    So do GM/F/D have the will, the incentive and the funds to fight over this 1/2 ton segment or will they retreat to the HD segment? GM has two winners with its T900's. Ford and Dodge need injections of Viagra ( cash ) and backbone to stay the course try to leap over the four above them.
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Posts: 2,770
    No, nobody is saying the 1/2 ton segment isn't important. In fact w/o numbers, I'd be willing to bet that 2/3 to 3/4 of all trucks sold under the Ram, Silverado, and F names are 1/2 tonners. However, with all the competition, and this goes back probably when Dodge came out w/ the newer Ram in '94, everybody started pushing the envelope in regards to towing, payload, hp, etc. Years ago, a towing capacity of 10,000 lbs was reserved for 1 Ton trucks. Today, EVERYBODY has to "have" a 10,000 tow cap. Since when does a 1/2 Ton truck have the capability to haul over 2000 lbs? Last time I checked, 2000 lbs was 1 TON!!! Everybody, not just Toyota, is blurring the lines of what was 1/2, 3/4, and 1 ton trucks. IMO If you can tow 14,15,16,000lbs thats medium duty (thats old school) All the big 3's 1 ton rigs can tow in that range. So obviously, the lines have been blurred. Hell, a Subaru Outback is classified as a truck !!!! All I'm saying is that in the way we have been accustomed to classifying trucks in this country (1/2, 3/4 and 1 Ton), Toyota seems to be trying to be everything to everybody with 1 "model", while the big three have 3 "models" each. I don't think it would take much to just offer an 8.0 liter V-8 in the silverado 1/2 ton, or the Duramax for that matter either.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Valid points.

    GM has two engines ( 6.0L & 6.2L ) that approach or exceed the Tundra 5.7L. Howwever for now it seems that they are limiting the availability of both these engines in the new T900's. By doing this they are making the 5.3L the workhorse to fight the battle against the 5.7L Tundra engine.

    In another forum here back in the Fall a poster who worked in GM's heavy duty plant noted that since 2001 GM has moved away from making the 6.0L engines toward more DuraMax diesels. GM might be able to drop an 8.0L into a few vehicles but that's not representative of what the average buyer could drop into any store and buy on a moments notice.

    I don't see the point about the Tundra being one model vs three from the others. It only competes in the 1/2 ton segment ( now ). No one is saying that the new Tundra is comparable to the HD vehicles. I think that all that's being said is that the 1/2 ton segment now means a truck with a tow rating of 8000-11000# and a Payload rating of 1200-2000#. In this range the Tundra is the performance leader.
  • How is there always that mystery on that hitch with them tundra ones now? Seem to recall same hitch mystery on that older tundra limited ones now. Same tells then as now. Is that hitch factory or is them dealers addin that hitch later? Bet them dealers be addin them ones, and not that factory. Always a mystery with that hitch on them tundra ones, facts is facts. What say, is that tundra hitch factory or dealer? If not factory, what does this tell us all? Good luck on this one now!
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,614
    i think the point being made is it is not really a 1/2 ton truck. it is being marketed as that, though. toyota sold 1 ton pickups here in the states years ago. seems to me they were a bit smaller. ;)
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    It is just a 1/2 ton truck nothing more.

    Now if Toyota has discovered a small vein of buyers that want a 1/2 ton truck that does more than the 'usual suspects', a group of buyers who were being forced into HD vehicles at a $5000-$8000 premium, then it may have success mining this small profitable subsegment.

    If this subsegment has been forced into 3/4 ton HD diesels because the 'usual suspects' cutoff capability around 7500# of towing and 1500# of payload then the Tundra might be able to save some of these users $5000-$10000 by staying with a 'super 1/2 tonner'. Ditto the Sierra.
  • KCRamKCRam Mt. Arlington NJPosts: 3,516
    image

    ...where a lot of posts went, they went good-bye. As promised.

    The subject here is Tundra vs Silverado. If you have other things to discuss, we have forums for those subjects. If you can't discuss the topic at hand in a civil manner, then please log out, take a deep breath, and calm down.

    If the name calling persists, then we take stronger measures.

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  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Posts: 2,770
    GM has two engines ( 6.0L & 6.2L ) that approach or exceed the Tundra 5.7L. Howwever for now it seems that they are limiting the availability of both these engines in the new T900's. By doing this they are making the 5.3L the workhorse to fight the battle against the 5.7L Tundra engine.
    Remember, the 5.7L isn't the only engine available in the Tundra. It too comes at a hefty premium over the base engines.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,614
    half as much as this?
    1 ton
  • image

    That one is that 1 ton one now? Who is that factory trickin with that one now? Is them new tundra ones full size? If that one is 1 ton now, and them tundra ones is 1/2 ton, them ones sure seem small next to them big3 ones. Has any folks really seen them new tundra ones? Any pictures of them tundra ones up next to a big3 one? That 1 ton one sure don't look full size now. Can you get that flat bed on them tunda ones? That flat bed sure is lookin good for farm workin and such. We got a flat bed on that 52, and it works good for haulin. Good luck on this one now!
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    The premium for the 5.7L is only $1300 over the 4.7L. The 5.7L Tundra is the same price as the 5.3L GM and 5.4L Ford engines.
  • I ordered a Silverado recently. Here's why. I've owned 2 Toyota (pre-Tacoma) 4x4 pickups. The first was a 1985, the second a 1992. I had problems with both that I didn't think I should have had. Both trucks were extremely well maintained.

    The 1985:
    1)blown head gasket (22RE engine)
    2)noisy valves (not an actual probem, just annoying as all get out)
    When I sold it, it had 90K mi.

    The 1992:
    1)Head gaskets replaced (v-6, done under factory recall)
    When the dealer did the work they buggered up a skid plate bolt and a pulley. This took 3 separate trips (and lots of time and nastygram letters to the dealer) to resolve.
    2)Switch replaced on the transfer case to shift into 4WD. About $400 ($50 parts + $350 labor)
    3)Transmission shift plate replaced ($250)
    4)Steering tie rod replaced (factory recall)
    5)Horrible screeching noise when the steering wheel is turned fully either way (not a major actual problem but very annoying).
    6)Cooling fan completely broke off of the pulley. I was very lucky it didn't completely waste the radiator. This damage almost cost me an expensive hunting trip in addition to the repair cost.
    Keep in mind this all occurred before the odo reached 75K mi.

    Again, both of these vehicles were maintained impeccably and were never abused or even worked very hard.

    The point I'm making is that some people seem to worship at the Toyota quality altar. Would I buy another Toyota? Heck yes! But I have a realistic view of what Toyota is capable of building. I also know enough about Toyota that I wouldn't buy a Tundra with an entirely new engine AND transmission. I'd wait a couple years. In my personal experience Toyota ranks 'fair to O.K.' in reliability, far from the 'excellent' that I seem to read a lot about. And, the dealer repair experience has been a decidedly a mixed bag.

    Say what you want, but at least with the Silverado the basic engine design has been around the block a time or two. The 4-speed auto trans also seems to get criticized for not being a 5-speed or 6-speed. But guess what? It's a reliable proven design. I'll take a 4-speed that works any time over a 17-speed that doesn't. I'm old enough to remember the good old days when the only options were a Turbo Hydramatic 3-speed or a 2-speed Powerglide. That Turbo Hydro 400 won a lot of races! Somehow the Republic survived with 2-speeds and 3-speeds. A good 4-speed? I'm in clover!

    I made up my mind that if a U.S. maker ever offered a truck with the features I wanted I would buy it. I WANT to buy American, but I also don't want to waste my money. Chevy finally offered it with the new Silverado. This is no guarantee of course. If the Silverado doesn't measure up I'll sell it and maybe go back to Toyota for another 20 years. Are you reading this Detroit????
  • why are people comparing the new tundra vs. the ford and GMs 1/2 tons or even to a HD truck like the 2500 sierras/silverados... The truck hasnt even made it to dealerships yet and people are already criticizing it. Comparing an engine that hasnt even been tested yet like the 6.2 v8 denalli to the tundra. Wait a year or few months to compare. Comparing apples to apples the tundra currently has the most power compared to GMs 5.3, 6.0 engines, fords 5.4 and dodges 5.7 hemi. Has the biggest Brakes available, bigger then fords f150 rated with a 11k towing cap And comes standard with a bunch of safety features which Ford and Gm provide as options. Prices should be coming down in a few months but comparing a 5.3 v8 sierra with lsd, stability control, sonar, power seats vs. a sr5 5.7 with the same options they both cost the same.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    The towing figures in post 257 are comparing the
    tundras 5.7 vs. 4.8 figures............


    This statement is false because you didn't do your homework, I did

    Note that I stated 'Big V8's'
    The values stated reflect the towing capacities of ( respectively )..
    Tundra 5.7L
    Silverado 6.0L standard towing
    Sierra 6.0L Max Trailering package
    Ford 5.4L
    Dodge 5.7L HEMI
    Titan 5.6L
    ...all the values are from each manufacturer's website or brochure.
    You are WAY off base - again - and just got picked off.
  • beliasbelias Posts: 316
    Again, I'm not sure we should continue to beat a dead horse here. Even reviews say that the new Tundra easily out hauls the others in its class.
    So, if there are other concerns with this truck, we should work on that. I would be interested in seeing whether or not the ride quality is truly as good as the others, or whether it bounces around like older trucks...
  • Your missin that point... that factory tells them haul numbers... yet no hitch! Do them tunda ones out haul big3 ones? No one knows... cuz nobody be workin them ones! Need to hear from folks who is workin them ones, not readin what that factory tells on em. Need folks to give tells on workin them farms with them ones, not workin that highway with em. No dead horse on this one, them tundra ones need to do that haul, then we will have the knowin of em. History tells us that forien one don't haul as well, could this be why they lack that factory hitch? When folks haul with them ones we will know, but folks has been tricked by that forien one before! Good luck on this one now!
This discussion has been closed.