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Toyota Tundra vs. Chevrolet Silverado

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Comments

  • geo9geo9 Posts: 739
    That roadtest blog only describes that they "discovered"
    a 4 second delay in the GM engine. What it doesn't
    say is that GM told them that................

    What they "discovered" is the GM torque mgmt. program
    that is programmed in ALL GMs 6.1, 6.2, and 8.1 engines.
    Those motors are torque brutes with the low end power to
    grenade drivetrain parts. Something those DOHC motors
    LACK at low RPMs. Thus the TM program IMO.

    If it works for 4 seconds, minutes, days, whatever its
    been there..............
    The explaination from the link I posted a few posts back
    explains it all to me. I wonder if GMpowertrain.com site
    has a description on it?????????

    Just another Edmunds slant to put the crown on the tundra.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    geo9,

    The fact remains that if it's on all the engines you decribed even I have to give the powertrain edge to Toyota, since they don't have to have this artificial feature to prohibit WOT acceleration. :sick: :cry:

    Rocky
  • ggesqggesq Posts: 701
    I think Yoda said it best...

    "Once you start down the path of the darkside, forever will it dominate your destiny." ;)
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Well there's a 'creative' explanation...'it's always been there...' ( except in GM's brochures and website data ).

    What they "discovered" is the GM torque mgmt. program
    that is programmed in ALL GMs 6.1, 6.2, and 8.1 engines.
    Those motors are torque brutes with the low end power to
    grenade drivetrain parts. Something those DOHC motors
    LACK at low RPMs. Thus the TM program IMO.


    Which was enough of a surprise that they had to call GM..twice..to get verification that their findings were correct. GM confirmed that they were correct. Interesting to say the least.

    You might want to look at the Tundra's HP and TQ curves, with no 4 second protective buffer. They are higher than the theoretical curves of the 6.0L ( without the 4 second buffer ). Conclusion: Physics and mechanics are the same everywhere no matter where a vehicle or engine is built. If this massive torque at low rpms ( higher yet on the Tundra ) can possibly 'grenade' transmission parts then Toyota must have put some hellaciously strong parts into the new Tundra not to need the 4 second buffer.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    GM L76 Vortex Max 6.0L TQ/HP curves
    Vortex Max curves

    TQ is about 275 lb-ft @ 1200 rpm

    Tundra ... iForce 5.7L TQ/HP curves
    5.7L iForce curves

    TQ is about 310-315 lb-ft @ 1200 rpm
  • jreaganjreagan Posts: 285
    OK, OK, enough already with the back-n-forth on the powertrain comparison. I think we can all agree (even a hardcore GM guy like me) that Toyota does have the slight edge on their drivetrain (when it comes to power anyway, quality remains to be seen). I do think that their advantage is mostly due to their DOHC design which GM refuses to go to on these V8's. But as I said, both of these trucks have PLENTY of HP and Torque to do the job of a 1/2 ton truck. If you disagree, you need to be looking at heavy duty trucks like a 3/4 or 1 ton. Does this mean the Toyota is the better truck? NO!!! You have to look at the entire package and I personally think the GM's are much better looking, have nicer interiors and overall will turn alot more heads than the bland-looking "I look like every other Japanaese truck made" Tundra. The order of my preference goes like this:
    1. GMC Sierra
    2. Chevy Silverado
    3. Ford F150
    4. Toyota Tundra
    5. Nissan Titan
    .
    .
    1,450,000. 1979 Yugo
    1,450,001. Dodge Ram

    Let's start the next phase of comparisons, can we?
  • beliasbelias Posts: 316
    Gimmie a break -- people who use their trucks for "real" work get 1 ton trucks... even 3/4 ton trucks might fit that bill, but not 1/2 ton trucks. Fords big 1 ton trucks have been used on farms for hauling and towing all kinds of equipment, cattle and horses, and other loads in weights and numbers that 1/2 ton trucks simply can't touch. In the community I grew up in where most everyone was on a farm, 1/2 ton trucks were relegated to picking up spare parts, getting fuel, and used basically everywhere it was convenient and easier to use.
    Buying big rims and tires for 1/2 ton trucks is pretty standard issue here. Everytime I go to the mall by my house or Costco, I see all of these trucks -- Silverados, Yukons, and especially Escalades all tricked out with massive tires. But try to find a 1 ton truck with that -- next to impossible.
    Besides, everybody here was getting all hot headed about 0-60 numbers and "tuning" or super-charging the engines or using cold-air intakes -- but put big rims and all of a sudden we're in violation of some kind of code?! LOL, gimmie a break!!
  • beliasbelias Posts: 316
    So what do you consider the "entire package"? Just looks and interiors? Is there anything specific on the interior that is offered in the Denali or Silverado that isn't offered in the Tundra or vice versa? Knowing that might help people that are on the fence make up their minds...
    BTW, I wouldn't have guessed you hated Dodge so much...
  • jreaganjreagan Posts: 285
    First, let me say I do agree with you for the most part on your previous comments about 3/4-1 tons being the real workhorses. However, I do NOT need a 3/4-1 ton for my needs, and I do much more than an occasional Home Depot run (although it is VERY convenient for that too). I have a 19ft fiberglass speedboat which weighs about 3500#'s plus gear so I do need a truck with enough power to yank it out of boat launches and enter freeways safely. My current 2000 GMC Sierra with the 5.3 has enough power, but it does "work" pretty hard pulling my boat. The upgrade to the 6.0 with the heavier duty tranny and rear end should not only pull it better and easier, but will last longer too.

    As for the entire package? I am opening that up to discussion. Let the people on here give their opinion on what's important to them other than 0-60 times and other power related items. That topic has run it's course (no pun intended). My point...There is more to the overall quality of a pickup other than HP and Torque, especially in the versatile 1/2 ton size. Of course, since these pickups both offer very similar options, most of this will be opinion based comparisons, but that's ok. I am just sick and tired of the power wars. Even though I do tow a boat with my truck, 80%+ of the miles I put on my truck are "empty" miles, so car-like options and amenities (like ride quality) are very important to me too. And I do know that GM is (and has been) light years ahead of it's domestic competition (Ford and Dodge) in the ride quality arena, don't know about the Tundra, never rode in one.

    Why are you surprised that I hate Dodges? Doesn't everybody? haha I have owned one Chrysler product in my life and will never own another one.
  • beliasbelias Posts: 316
    Well, I can only speculate what the 07 Denali will be like since I have not seen any at the GMC dealers in my area (plenty of 06s though). This type of comparison I think will be good to make once there is a real truck I can see in person. All I can go on is an 07 EXT, 07 Silveraldo, 07 Tahoe, and 07 Avalanche. The interiors are much nicer than last year's as they desperately needed a major change. The EXT is obviously very, very nice inside, though some things were not as great as I expected for the extra $20K. Outside it looked a little too feminine for me -- the same for the Avalanche, but at least they got rid of that horrible cladding.
    I will say that I do like the OnStar system, though I have to say that I'm confused by how OnStar has radio advertisements where someone has locked their keys in their truck with the engine RUNNING! Sorry, but that is a MAJOR design flaw! Every vehicle I've owned since 1988 has had the feature of unlocking automatically when the key is in the ignition. You can only lock it from the inside with the door closed, or from the outside with another key. That doesn't prevent you from locking your keys in the car when they aren't in the ignition, but I thought GM wasn't doing themselves any favor extolling the virtues of OnStar making up for a design flaw.
    Still the OnStar system is a great feature to have, especially with having a family. From the pictures, it looks like the 07 Denali is going to be quite nice! I wish that they had a CrewMax-type competitor -- that would virtually seal the deal with me provided the price wasn't too high. Right now, that is the most pressing issue for me; that interior room is valuable!
    Someone mentioned in a previous post that the Tundra was wider than every other truck. I saw that, at 79.9" it is the same width as the Silveraldo, so that isn't a concern.
  • beliasbelias Posts: 316
    I'm wondering if anybody has used this on their truck:
    Peragon
    It looks like a pretty good solution, but I don't know anybody that has one and would like to know how they like it (I know plenty of people that use caps, but not this...).
  • dreasdaddreasdad Posts: 276
    Thats really funny as I have heard for the last 7 years that people likethe Tundra looks and feel way more than the chevy but they wish the Tundra had more power. Now we have the more power its the LOOK?

    And if they are better why do they not offer the features that the Tundra does? You can't even get a F-150 with Vehicle stabilty control and traction cotroland its Standard on all Tundra's!!!!
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Is there anything specific on the interior that is offered in the Denali or Silverado that isn't offered in the Tundra or vice versa? Knowing that might help people that are on the fence make up their minds...

    My 2007' Toyota Tundra CrewMax 4x4 I just built was $52,171.00 :surprise:

    The Sierra Denali has Onstar, Heated Steering wheel, Heated Windshield Washer Fluid, 12-way adjustable seats, real wood trim. to name a few that the Tundra doesn't have. I also saw no sliding rear window. The Denali has one that is power retractable. ;)

    It would cost me a pile of dough if I even wanted to go to the Dark Side. OMG !!!!! :surprise:

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Model & Standard Features
    The model you selected...
    Feature Description Price
    8372 4X4 CrewMax Ltd. Short Bed 5.7L V8 6 Spd Auto
    $42,575.00


    Interior & Exterior Colors
    Exterior Color
    Feature Color Name
    0202 Black


    Interior Color
    Feature Color Name
    LB44 Sand Beige



    Selected Options and Packages
    Packages
    Feature Description Price
    EI Dvd Headrest Entertainment System
    -By Invision - Includes:
    -Integrated Top Loading Dvd
    -Two Simulated Leather Headrests With
    -7 Inch Lcd Screens
    -Video / Audio Input / Output Jacks
    -Two Wireless Headphones
    $1,995.00
    E0 The Extra Mile Option Package E
    -Custom Tape Stripe
    -First Aid Kit
    -Fabric Guard
    -Bedmat
    -Spare Tire Lock
    -Wheel Locks
    -Roadside Assistance (3 Yrs/36,000 Miles
    -Road Hazard Tire Warranty
    -The Extra Mile Service Rewards Program
    -(3 Yrs/36,000 Miles)
    -(5 Yrs/60,000 Miles
    $620.00
    TK Toyota Sport Series Edition
    -Stainless Steel Exhaust Tip
    -Door Sill Enhancements.
    -20 Inch Chrome Wheel And Tire Upgrade
    -Running Boards
    -Custom Carpeted Floor Mats
    -Toyota Sport Series Edition Badging
    -(Factory Alloy Wheel Credit)
    $2,439.00
    OF Off Road Package
    $70.00
    P4 Vehicle Shield Package
    -Lusterizing Sealant
    -Sound Shield
    -Sealant Cleaner
    -Rental Car Assistance
    $349.00
    Miscellaneous
    Feature Description Price
    TS Custom Tape Stripe

    SF Stainless Steel Exhaust Tip

    FK First Aid Kit

    MG Mud Guards
    $60.00
    ET Bed Extender
    $320.00
    BM Ball Mount
    $69.00
    SL Spare Tire Lock

    WL Wheel Locks

    DS Door Sill Enhancements.

    W1 Molded Dash Applique
    $369.00
    WT Window Tint
    $179.00
    XM Xm Satellite Radio Package
    -Includes:
    -Receiver
    -Antenna And Wire Harness
    -Waived Activation Fee
    -90 Days Of Complimentary Xm Service
    $449.00
    B2 Bed Liner (Under Rail)
    $299.00
    RT Remote Start
    $529.00
    NV Dvd Navigation System w/Backup Monitor,
    $1,650.00
    PV Permavin/Glass Etch & Limited Warranty
    $199.00

    Grand Total=$52,171.00 :surprise: -> after seeing it from shock :sick: (dead) :P

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    The only flaw I see with the new Tundra, that I don't like is the gray plasticky trim on the dash. The colors just don't look right IMHO and it looks cheap. I was actually really surprised Toyota, signed off on this. Toyota, is usaully well known for paying attention to detail and this is one of those rare cases that they didn't. :surprise:

    Rocky
  • jreaganjreagan Posts: 285
    And if they are better why do they not offer the features that the Tundra does? You can't even get a F-150 with Vehicle stabilty control and traction cotroland its Standard on all Tundra's!!!!

    The GM's (Chevy and Sierra) both have Stability control standard on it's crewcabs...Who is comparing F-150's here?

    My fully loaded GMC Sierra SLT I have on order has EVERYTHING the Tundra offers and more. And it's not even a Denali. Plus, it was UNDER $40K with the 6.0L and 20" wheels. 2 examples: Rainsense wipers and heated washer fluid.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Yep.....I also assume you got the Bose premium sound system ?

    I will admit the JBL, in the Tundra will sound pretty good. Better than Bose ? Well that is possible, but not likely. It however will be a bit more powerful as I'm not sure how many watts the Bose is. The JBL is 440 watts.

    Rocky
  • jreaganjreagan Posts: 285
    Yep, it's Std on the SLT. And yes, JBL makes good stuff, but I'd bet on Bose. All I can say is it's about time GM put decent sound in their trucks. My 2000 GMC's stereo sucks just like they always have until now.

    I got every possible option except Rear DVD, Navigation, Rear Parking Assist and Power Adjust Pedals, and the price was still under $40K (invoice, which is what I paid). How much is the equiv. Tundra?
  • Plus the Deanli has DriverShift Control, Nuance Leather front and rear, Premium DIC (Driver Info Control) you can program all the features to your liking. Does the Tundra have Factory Remote start? For Toyota always claiming their interiors are the greatest, it is an absolute joke in the Tundra.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    I actually always thought the Delphi-Delco units weren't bad for a factory unit. It's really a shame that Delphi, didn't keep upgrading their "Monsoon" systems technology.

    Ford and Dodge by far have the worst factory sound out of all the car company's. The Lincoln MKZ, Navigator, MKX, finally have a good system that is THX II Certified and does have 500-Watts of DVD-Audio power. Hopefully the next Lincoln Mark LT will employ this new system :shades:

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    I just wished GM, would of offered the Bose 5.1 system in the Sierra Denali. Nobody at gMC, knows if it's the 5.1 unit but I think the EXT, is a 10 speaker unit. I will go look it up right now.

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Premium Bose 5.1 Discrete Surround Sound System, dual-play (CD/DVD) radio, AudioPilot® noise compensation technology; in-dash, single-load, 6-disc changer and 8 speakers equalized to Escalade's interior; top slot DVD-Audio/Video, CD Audio/Video, MP3; bottom slot 6-disc CD changer and MP3

    Escalade's cabin quietness sets the stage for an extraordinary and unexpected multi-media entertainment experience. A standard Bose® 5.1 Discrete Surround Sound System uses six distinct channels to provide concert quality sound that replicates the experience of a home theater system. Pure sound without distortion makes prolonged listening a pleasure.

    Our engineers worked closely with Bose® to design and configure the sound system, optimizing speaker locations and tuning the system specifically for Escalade's interior. The result is superb imaging and spectral response, reproducing the power and nuance of each instrument and voice and delivering music with clarity, spaciousness and detail—for each occupant of the vehicle!

    The Sierra Denali has 7 speakers including subwoofer right ?

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    http://www.gmc.com/sierra900/1500/index.jsp

    My Denali is here !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D

    "Whooooooooooooops" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :shades:

    Rocky
  • Yes..7 Including Sub..Mind you the Denali Bose uses a LUX amp. Not the same in normal Bose GM vehicles.
  • beliasbelias Posts: 316
    Anybody involved in audio seriously or as a pro doesn't even compare Bose to other systems... they simply can't compete. I have a Bose system in my car and it is terrible! I doubt it is better in other systems. What Bose does well is include technically advanced features; but for actual sound, heck, I would take just about anything else. It has no base, no depth; event the soundstage sucks. Why anybody would put it in any vehicle is beyond comprehension. It is the single-most frustrating aspect of Honda/Acura for me and other manufacturers as well.
    JBL isn't that great either, but a heck of a lot better than Bose and certainly worthy of installing in vehicles. Unfortunately really good audio companies have more interest in after-market sales as opposed to work with auto manufacturers. That is a shame because they could do really well for a lot of people.
  • beliasbelias Posts: 316
    Where are you getting your numbers from? The CrewMax isn't even fully priced on Toyota.com and on Edmunds it is $38,970 for the 5.7L 6-speed Limited CrewMax. The highest package available for it runs just over $4200, so that brings the total before taxes, licensing, plates, etc. to just over $43K. That package includes everything available like Navigation and DVD entertainment packages too. Even the 20" rims and tires...
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    I have a $7,000 7.1 custom home theater unit but for the money nobody IMHO makes a better system than Bose. The Bose 5.1 in the STS, is better than the Mark Levison in the Lexus. I suppose Lexus, has a leg up on Bose with it's new 450 watt 7.1 system employed in the LS 460 but thats about it. ;)

    JBL, isn't better than Bose, IMHO

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Where are you getting your numbers from? The CrewMax isn't even fully priced on Toyota.com and on Edmunds it is $38,970 for the 5.7L 6-speed Limited CrewMax. The highest package available for it runs just over $4200, so that brings the total before taxes, licensing, plates, etc. to just over $43K. That package includes everything available like Navigation and DVD entertainment packages too. Even the 20" rims and tires...

    I got all my info from Toyota.com belias. ;) Go on their and configure one. ;)

    Rocky
This discussion has been closed.