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Toyota Tundra vs. Chevrolet Silverado

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Comments

  • ggesqggesq Posts: 701
    sigh...... :sick:

    Thanks for telling me what MY opinion is. :sick:
  • Q: Why do men like sexy women dressed in leather?
    A: Because they smell like a new truck!

    Sorry, ladies...

    BTW, picked up my new Silverado today (2/24). It was ordered Dec. 30 but because of the Holiday the factory didn't get the order until Jan. 8. So I guess that's about 7 weeks delivery time (to So. Cal.). I love it. Better yet, the family loves it - roomy, quiet, comfortable, powerful. All the different options for the stereo & data center are a little intimidating, I guess that will just take time to learn.

    4WD Crew, 6.0, 2LT pkg., Z71 Off Road, 18" Z71 alloy wheels, EZLift tailgate, power rear window, Safety pkg., Desert Brown metallic ext., ebony cloth int. Price about $150 above invoice. Did the deal over the internet, dealer treated me well, no complaints with the service (at least so far).

    1offroader
  • "Best thing is that with most fulltime real 4wd sytstems you can't drive on completely dry roads with it...which means you can't be driving down 'dry' winter farm roads and then have 4wd when you run into a long icy patch. And tehre is no doubt that there is better directional stability with 4wd than with rwd on ice."

    This is 180 degrees from the truth. Your thinking of part-time 4wd systems. With full time systems you CAN drive all the time in 4wd. No full size pickup truck I know of except a Unimog has fulltime 4wd. They are all part-time. Hummer, some jeeps, and landrover all have fulltime 4wd...
  • jreaganjreagan Posts: 285
    Congrats Offroader.
    I ordered mine on Jan 22nd and it is built and in transit. Dealer expects it early next week. But I am having several accessories put on so it may require a few days to get them installed. So I will probably be picking it up next weekend.
    2007 GMC Sierra SLT Crewcab 4x4, 6.0, 20" wheels, electric sunroof, Side surtain airbags, HP suspension pkg, Rear locker (3.73), skid plate pkg, engine block heater. Basically everyting except NAV and Rear DVD.

    Paid invoice exactly,
    Invoice: $38,929
    less $2000 (Trade-in bonus cash and Loyalty rebate).
    less $11,500 for my 2000 GMC Sierra Z71.
    = $25,429 + TTL
    Accessories:
    6" Oval SSTL step bars ($614)
    Hood Protector ($156)
    Linex Spray-in bed liner ($450)
    Access brand Tonneau cover ($450)
    Remote Start ($262)
    I decided to get the remote added after because I didn't want the entire safety pkg which included rear park assist and power adj. pedals.
  • geo9geo9 Posts: 739
    I am biting at the bit for a new GMT-900
    Chevy or GMC 3/4 x-cab 4x4!!
    Initial dealer buildup of both models is still happening
    and none of my local dealers will do a GM employee
    discount deal yet !!!!!!!!!!!

    My bud across the street got his Chevy x-cab 4x4 1/2 ton
    2 days ago. Finally got to touch, feel, and drive one
    without messing with a salesperson !
    Nice rig.......You won't be disappointed !!!!!!!!!!!!

    tundra.....phooey !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I need a REAL truck to work hard and GM fits the bill.......... ;)
  • Congrats jreagan, sounds like a beautiful truck. What color?

    The Chevy Safety pkg. has the side curtain air bags, and also incl. the power adjustable pedals. My wife really likes that, she can make the truck fit her. I can never figure out how they come up with the pkg. combinations - power pedals don't really seem like a 'safety' item, more of a convenience feature IMO.

    The Chevy Z71 pkg. incl. the skid plates and rear locker - that makes more sense to me.

    MSRP on mine was $38,875, Invoice $35,389. I paid $35,642, but got the dealer to include a third key which is worth about $150, for a total of 'about' $35,500. It's not like the old days where you could go down to Home Depot and have a key cut for $2. Well, you can, but it'll only get you in the door, won't start the vehicle. I didn't have a trade in, and haven't bought a GM in some years so didn't have the Loyalty rebate.

    Does the GMC come standard with the EZLIft/locking tailgate? That's an extra option on the Chevy but worth it IMO. I've heard of tailgates being stolen - they are about $900 to replace.

    I'm going to be getting a tonneau soon. Your tonneau sounds very inexpensive, the SnugTop that I am looking at is about $1,100. What's up with that?

    1offroader
  • KH, your comments about rear lockers lead me to believe that you have never lived through a northern New England winter, been the last person to leave a frozen/muddy construction site at say 6:30PM in February, or pulled a boat up a wet ramp with the tide coming in.
  • jreaganjreagan Posts: 285
    Offroader,
    I got Steel Gray mettalic with ebony leather interior.
    The option packages are slightly different between Chevy and GMC, also, I think they are different at different trim levels.
    I didn't want the power pedals because my wife won't drive my truck. In the 7-1/2 yrs I've had my 2000, she has never driven it. How awesome is that? Not because I won't let her, she just doesn't want to. Go figure.
    I couldn't get the Z71 because I got the 20" wheels which req'd me to get the HP suspension pkg. So I had to add the skid plates. The HP suspension includes the larger stabilizer bar and the HD monotube shocks. But if you were as thorough in your research as I was (borderline anal), you probably knew that. No EZ lift locking tailgate, my theory on that is with a soft cover and a locked tailgate, curious thieves will just cut the cover to see what I have to hide/lock. I never leave valuables back there anyway. As for theft, insurance will cover that.
    I HIGHLY recommend the Access brand roll-up tonneau cover. It is far superior to any other soft roll-up IMO. I have had one on my 2000 since new and it is still like brand new, still tight and in mint cond. I do treat the vinyl a couple of times a year, that's it. I would not even consider anything else this time around. My buddy has a Truxedo on his F150 and it is junk, always loose and flopping in the breeze.
  • OK. Yes, the GMC pkgs. are a little different from Chevy. The Z71 Chevy pkg. comes with skid plates, locker, rear HD monotube shocks, HD front stabilizer bar, and rear 'bump' dampeners. As with the GMC, you can't get the 20" wheels with the Z71 on the Silverado. Not exactly sure why. The 20-inchers look great, but I need an on/off road tread w/a taller sidewall.

    I do carry valuable stuff in back, so I'm getting a hard tonneau that locks. SnugTop makes a good one. I have used their camper shells on several trucks and have been very satisfied. Along with the locking tailgate it's about as secure as I can make it. If you know of a different brand hard tonneau other than SnugTop that you can recommend I'll take a look at it.

    1offroader
  • jreaganjreagan Posts: 285
    Nope, I don't know anything about hard tonneau's, sorry. I would go with what you like (Snug-Top).
    So, you carry valuable stuff in the back huh? Where do you live? haha JK.
    Good Luck with yours, I am sure you'll love it as I know I will. Can't wait to get mine, but were in the middle of a snowstorm right now and I would kinda prefer winter to be over before I get it so I can keep it clean while it is brand spanking new. Oh well, another month and it'll be spring.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    none of my local dealers will do a GM employee
    discount deal yet !!!!!!!!!!!


    What ?????????? I'd tell them to go to hell and get on the phone and find other dealers !!!!! :mad:

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Z85 suspension, or the optional Z60 What's the difference in these suspensions ????? The GMC Sierra Denali "Classic" has the Z-71 suspension I believe and I'm not up to snuff on these two new suspensions. I think the Z60 suspension is a sports suspension but does it have heavy duty shocks for light off-roading ? I know the new Sierra Denali has skid plates. What's the Z85 suspension ? I read on this site: The Sierra Denali comes standard with 18x8 polished aluminum wheels wearing 265/65/18 tires. Larger 20x8.5 chrome wheels with 275/55/20 tires are available as an option. The chassis features the standard Z85 suspension, or the optional Z60 sport suspension when equipped with 20-inch chrome wheels. Four-wheel disc brakes and StabilTrak are standard, along with skid plates and tow hooks.

    http://www.sportruck.com/news/2007-GMC-Sierra-Denali/index.htm

    So the Z85 does what ? Is it like the Z-71 ?

    I'm kind of embarrassed I don't know much about these pretty new suspensions and was use to Z-71 being the only option for years. Y'all can educate me a bit and perhaps this can be a break in the he said/she said for a bit. ;)

    Thanks,

    Rocky
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    For 10 years I worked on pipeline projects all over upstate NY....all weather ( including jackhammering frozen dirt 4' deep ) and all conditions. Let's say I've done my time.

    Never had a boat, but I've towed plenty of construction equipment to various on and off road sites.
  • jreaganjreagan Posts: 285
    Ok, during those 10 years, tell me what was the most popular truck on the job sites? I will guess the following, in order of prevalence:
    1. Ford
    2. GM
    3. Dodge
    4. Others (including Toyota)

    How'd I do?
  • geo9geo9 Posts: 739
    ROCK..........Yea NO dice on a 3/4 ton yet !
    The 2500s are not showing up on GM Buypower yet!
    No nearby dealers have a black x-cab with the WORK
    goodies I need ie: locker, plow. prep., tow pkg.
    If the dog can't hunt....I don't need it !!!!!!
    If I was looking for a driveway queen racemobile
    possibly a 5.7 tundra would fit the bill.........
    NAAAH!!!!!!!!! I would NEVER hear the end of it!

    ALL of the ones I have seen also are loaded out with
    leather and are $40k plus ! Mr. dealer don't wanna
    hear "GM employee buyer" discount on the 3/4s either !
    But they are quite eager to sell me a 1/2 ton but NO
    firm answer on warranty issues plowing without the VYU plow
    prep. option !
    They are drooling over my 04 2500 x-cab 4x4 trade with 20k
    miles. These late model 3/4 ton GMs sell like hotcakes
    used up here for top dollar!

    I can wait...Besides we might get another 11 FEET of snow
    like last week so I have to be ready to plow !!!!!
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Toyota didn't make big trucks back then.

    Fords and Chevy's like now it depended on the buyers.
  • jreaganjreagan Posts: 285
    That's right, they didn't, they only made "wannabe's" and until they prove themselves in the market (not on paper), that's all they are now. Time will tell. I aint losin sleep over it. Gm and Ford will ALWAYS (in my lifetime anyway) be #1 and #2.
  • pmuscepmusce Posts: 132
    You think Ford will be third, fourth or fifth in full size pickups in 4-5 years? You do realize for Toyota or Nissan to move up to second in sales, they would need to move 600,000-700,000 trucks. This would required at least 2 more plants. A plant takes 2-3 years to select a site, build it and ramp up production. As well, for Toyota and Nissan to get to that volume, they need Heavy Duty Pickups, Duelies, a better entry level V8 for Toyota (Nissan does not even have one). Its greaat that the Tundra can tow 10,800 pounds, but the heavy duty GMT900's tow in excess of 16,000 pounds. These are the real work trucks.

    You insult other posters as being stupid yet you don't seem to understand what makes up the full size truck market. Toyota is not a player in the HD market, has no diesel and has no production capacity. Nissan can't even fill the capacity they have. It will take Toyota at least 12-15 years to be able to challenge Ford and GM, if they ever do. GM and Ford have loyal pickup buyers because they make great pickups. Toyota will have as hard a time getting Ford/GM converts as Ford and GM will getting Camry converts in the car market.
  • jreaganjreagan Posts: 285
    Well said.
  • rockylee,

    According to the Silverado pamphlet:
    Z83 Solid smooth ride with rear twin tube shocks and 32mm front stabilizer bar

    Z85 Handling/Trailering with rear monotube shocks and 34 mm bar

    Z71 off road susp. w/rear monotube shocks and 34 mm bar

    Z60 Hi Perf. susp. w/rear montube shocks and 36 mm bar

    MAX TRailering susp. w/hi capacity rear springs and 36 mm bar

    So...
    Sounds like the MAX trailering is the heaviest and Z83 is the softest. The Z71 also comes with skid plates. If you are getting a 4WD and do much offroading I can recommend the Z71. I like the handling - firm but not harsh, corners flat, little body roll. Good compromise.

    1offroader
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,972
    nissan titan and chysler hemi tried the 'more horspower' strategy. toyota's car based reliability reputation gives them a better base to work from for first time truck buyers.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Thanks for the info. I had a 2000 Z-71 and loved it. I know the Sierra Denali has skid plates thus based on your info I'd be best to get the Z60 as most of my driving would be street but with once in a while off-roading. ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    I'd shop other dealers even if it meant just to further educate myself if I was you. ;)

    Rocky
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    The San Antonion plant is laid out to produce 500K units tomorrow. It won't happen of course. With one additional line in that plant it can go up to 700K with no expansion of of the site.

    I will venture that if Ford doesn't solve it's problems before it runs out of money it will be absorbed by someone as a much smaller entity. Already the volume is down to 800K units and they just cut the workforce by 50% closing the plant 10 min from where I work. And even with reduced goals on sales Mullaly advised the workers that they would not hit their Feb or Mar numbers either.

    I know very well that to be fully competitive both the Nissan and the Toyota will have to offer HD versions. Soon, they will be here soon enough.

    As to 12-15 years it may very well be that to challenge GM. I've never said otherwise.

    If Ford doesn't solve its financial problems immediately it won't be here in 12-15 years and those sales will have to go somewhere.

    Dodge may not last out the year much less see the next Ram.
    If GM were to buy it..
    If the Chinese were to buy it..
    If an PEF were to buy it..
    If it's spun off to the unions..
    Which of these four have the multi-$Billions to fund development of the new Ram while at the same time funding ongoing losses in the current model?
  • I think you overstate how hard it is to change consumers buying habits. Sure the full size truck buyer is in the heartland where there are Ford families and "Chivvy" families. But once the tide begins to change, watch out. For example, once they had a competitive product, it didn't take very long for Germany's M/B and BMW to convince upper middle class Americans, many of them WWII vets and/or Jewish Americans, to buy German sedans.
  • pmuscepmusce Posts: 132
    This is from toyota.com

    'Toyota's San Antonio plant was announced in February 2003, and construction began later that year. When the plant reaches full operations next spring, it will have the capacity to produce 200,000 Tundra full-size pickup trucks and employ 2,000 team members.

    The plant's investment was originally estimated at $800 million, but grew to approximately $1.28 billion because of a capacity expansion for 50,000 more trucks; rising material costs, especially for steel; and additional infrastructure needed for the on-site suppliers.'

    Can you show me where it says that they can produce 500,000?
  • pmuscepmusce Posts: 132
    Why do think I am overstating it? This is Toyotas third try at a competative full size. Its been 14 years since Toyota entered this market and they are at 100,000 sales a year. There goal with the new Tundra is 200,000. To get to Ford and GM volumes you are talking 800,000-900,000 trucks. I've stated how long I think it would take assuming it actually happens. How long do you think it would take for shift in buying habits. Don't forget, these buyers have no reason to switch.

    By the way it took 40 years for BMW and M/B to start outselling Cadillac in North America after WWII. That seems pretty long to me.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Internal Toyota documents. What the public sees and what the real situation is can often be different. You need to visit the plant to see how big it is and how empty it is.

    TMMTX is on one shift until June when they will bring on the 2nd shift. Indiana is well established but smaller with more vehicles on its schedule.

    The plant was built with the expectation of going to 700K units somewhere in the 2015-2020 time frame.

    If events shorten this then it will have to be addressed.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    It may seem glacially slow but every baby step has a purpose. Again this isn't a sprint. just looking at the numbers going from 125K units to 200K units is very very modest. It doesn't distupt the market and it keeps the vehicles being sold in a sweet spot where they all can be profitable without massive rebates.

    The whole purpose is just to make money as every business wants to do. Being first or second is of no importance here as long as by the end of the next decade all the vehicles are profitable, whatever the volume, and the lines are busy. It's been 14 yrs since the initial baby step. That's just a beginning in a 25 or 50 year cycle.
  • geo9geo9 Posts: 739
    Is the 07 tundra 5.7 having the cold start knock issues like
    the 4.7 has? Seems GM isn't the only one having this problem.

    This link is one to watch:
    http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/tundra/89753-do-2007s-knock-cold-weather-s- - tartup/
This discussion has been closed.