Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





Toyota Tundra vs. Chevrolet Silverado

1323335373862

Comments

  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    Pretty sure Toyota and the Tundra are proving it in every comparison test, every test drive, and every article written. It is at least as good as the Chevy. It's splitting hairs.

    No need to lie. Shouting at people doesn't change anything. The Chevy does some things well, and the Tundra does some things well. Neither is particularly poor at anything. Just emphasize different virtues.

    DrFill
  • pmuscepmusce Posts: 132
    Just got the Ram figures:

    Silverado
    Feb 2007 - 58696
    Feb 2006 - 46387
    Up 26.5%

    F-Series
    Feb 2007 - 55251
    Feb 2006 - 62862
    Down 12.1%

    Ram
    Feb 2007 - 28633
    Feb 2006 - 24379
    Up 17%


    Sierra
    Feb 2007 - 18140
    Feb 2006 - 14787
    Up 22.7%

    Tundra
    Feb 2007 - 9669
    Feb 2006 - 10566
    Down 8.5%

    Titan
    Feb 2007 - 6058
    Feb 2006 - 7009
    Down 13.6%

    Totals for the Month:

    GM 76836
    Ford 55251
    DCX 28633
    Toyota 9669
    Nissan 6058
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Good job by GM, and that's with Ford and Dodge ready to roll over and play dead.
  • Can someone please fill me in on what I'm missing about Toyota? Their vehicles may get decent gas mileage, but their styling is so bland I can only picture my pap behind the wheel of one. I'm a proud owner of a 06 Chevy that gets about 11.9 mpg according to the in dash computer... and I'd hook chains any day with a tundra against my Vortec MAX. After I rip the frame out from under it, I'll toss ya a tube of super glue so you can put your TOY back together. :P
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    Super Glue as standard equipment, after a year I'd think you'd be out by now! :blush:

    DrFill
  • toykickstoykicks Posts: 95
    cant say the tundra is stronger nor the silverado/sierra because theres no factual evidence just opinion. The tundra does have one heavy frame. They know about Fully boxed frames already since the f150 was their target. The tundras frame doesnt have the FBF weird vibrations toyota pointed that out, they also said its stronger then the F150s FBF and Dodge rams and they tested and trashed a few new gen silverados and sierras before they launched the tundra. The silverado and sierras launched 5+ months before the tundra so they had a chance to compare. Few people who work for toyota on TS.com were in those tests and pointed out a few GM trucks lost their front bumpers in the offroad courses and yep these were the new sierras and silverados :surprise: .
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,653
    I agree with toykicks.

    I tend to think a FBF has more to due with frame stiffness than strength.

    Take a peak under a Freightliner that can haul 60,000+ lbs and you'll see that it does not have a boxed frame. Sometimes flex is good.

    I do think GMs new trucks/suvs are very nice. But I won't be interested until the 6speed is available w/o having to buy a Denali or Escalade. Thus, if I were to replace my Suburban today, I'd get an Expedition or Armada, more gears and more torque plus more towing capacity w/o having to go to a 3/4ton.
  • jreaganjreagan Posts: 285
    But what about long-term reliability and customer satisfaction? And don't tell me that their car market or the previous Tundras speak for that. They are completely different vehicles. This is a new segment for Toyota, so there is no doubt they will have a learning curve to get through. Sure, Toyota is a good automotive mfr, but they are NOT immune to all of the challenges required to get a truck to the point that GM, Ford (and even Dodge) are at in overall truck quality. Sure, they are powerful and fast, but there is way more to a truck than that.
    Oh, and BTW...Does Tundra offer such ammenities such as Rain Sense Wipers and Heated washer fluid? Just curious.
  • jreaganjreagan Posts: 285
    Super Glue as standard equipment, after a year I'd think you'd be out by now!

    Huh?
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Oh, and BTW...Does Tundra offer such ammenities such as Rain Sense Wipers and Heated washer fluid? Just curious.

    It's a truck. The Avalon has the rainsensing wipers and I believe the Lexus's have both.

    Absolutely the Tundra has to prove itself there is no question. That's why they have aimed at a small part of a very large target. The center of the market of 2.3 Million trucks.

    With any population there is normally a 'bell curve' with most of the volume being grouped around the mean. Find the mean and find out what they want and that's where most of the volume is located. If 1.5 Million buyers out of 2.3 Million market want
    ..the DC/EC/SC/QC
    ..with superior towing capacity
    ..good carrying capacity
    ..durability
    ..good fuel economy
    ..nice convenient features without going overboard
    then this vehicle will hit it's target.

    If there are some buyers wanting a low-rider kick-a$$ Reg Cab short bed or a Lexus/Cadillac interior or 15,000# towing capacity well they don't fall into this 'center demographic'. With only 200K units to sell at first being focused is much more important than meeting every single challenge.
  • beliasbelias Posts: 316
    Just saw all the new posts and will try to get some replies posted this weekend if possible, but just wanted to point out that from the owners of Chevy/GMC, Dodge, and Ford truck owners themselves, the full-size domestic truck segment scored "mediocre" in CRs latest review. That is with a sample size of 1.3 million total automotive customers. Heck of a lot more than on this forum. Honda did best overall, Toyota did very well also, but two or three models were not highly recommended. Still, their trucks fared much better then the domestics (mid-size included).
    If I were a Chevy man on this forum, I would hardly be arguing reliability favoring Chevy/GMC.
    jreagan,
    So, rain sense wipers and heated washer fluid outdo:
    - better audio systems across the line for Tundra (all have aux input jacks and mp3 capability) including a 12-speaker 440W JBL system available on some models (as opposed to a 6-speaker Bose system)
    - heating/cooling ducts for rear-seat passengers in the Tundra (none on the Chevy)
    - more room on Tundra's regular, double, and crewmax cabs then in the Silverado's regular, extended, and crewcab trucks.
    - more cup/thermos holders across the line
    - much more advanced Navigation system (see audio/voice controls section and POI numbers, integration with other onboard systems)
    - rear child-door locks on the Tundra
    - standard side, side-curtain, and front air bags for Tundra where just the fronts are standard on the Chevy with the option to have side-curtains on some models (no sides available).
    - bigger brakes all the way around with 4-piston calipers up front Tundra.
    - windshield wiper de-icer grid with timer for rapid defrosting of windshield on Tundra.
    - Vehicle Stability Control, Traction Control, ABS with EBD, and Brake Assist on Tundra as opposed to ABS and StabiliTrak on Silverado
    - Information centers on Tundra contain more information then what is displayed on the Silverado
    - Tundra has better performance in acceleration, handling, handling under load, and braking then the Silverado (as mentioned by performance numbers in virtually every comparison test).
    - Better power/torque numbers for the Tundra
    - Towing payload numbers favor Tundra in various configurations by 2 to 1.
    - More power points in Tundra then in the Silverado (3 or 4 to 2)
    - Larger standard size wheels on all configurations in Tundra then in Silverado (18" vs 17")
    - Tighter turning radius on Tundra then on Silverado on all models.

    There are many more points that can be made here. But that isn't really the issue. The issue here is that if the Chevy had these features, you would be arguing the same.

    Both trucks are fantastic and I think that the posts talking about one "breaking" the other is a complete exaggeration if not all-around useless to the development of the topic. It isn't as if somebody is going to have buyer's remorse getting either of these trucks.

    For me personally, the interior room is by far the most important feature. I need a big back seat and that just isn't available with the Silverado. I'm also a big man and need my own room; both trucks do well in this department, so that wasn't a concern for me.

    In any case, it doesn't matter how much we post here in terms of Tundra's numbers, performance, capabilities, etc. there will always be something that the Chevy guys here will make an excuse for. That is the prevalent attitude because many of them already have their trucks and the very factors that were used to distinguish them from their domestic competition (i.e. hp, torque, towing, etc.) suddenly are irrelevant against the Tundra... now the Tundra is suddenly inferior because despite all it offers, there aren't "Rain sense wipers" and "Heated washer fluid". Well, if that convinces you to get the Chevy, go ahead, different things are going to be important for different people, but don't go trying to claim that this makes it more of a "truck". Tundra has got the Chevy beat on that in almost every aspect. Quibble about the details if you like (there are still far more in Tundra's favor anyway), but I think the days of arguing that this isn't a full-size truck are decidedly over.
  • jreaganjreagan Posts: 285
    Oh, and BTW...Does Tundra offer such ammenities such as Rain Sense Wipers and Heated washer fluid? Just curious.

    It's a truck. The Avalon has the rainsensing wipers and I believe the Lexus's have both.

    Absolutely the Tundra has to prove itself there is no question. That's why they have aimed at a small part of a very large target. The center of the market of 2.3 Million trucks.

    With any population there is normally a 'bell curve' with most of the volume being grouped around the mean. Find the mean and find out what they want and that's where most of the volume is located. If 1.5 Million buyers out of 2.3 Million market want
    ..the DC/EC/SC/QC
    ..with superior towing capacity
    ..good carrying capacity
    ..durability
    ..good fuel economy
    ..nice convenient features without going overboard
    then this vehicle will hit it's target.

    If there are some buyers wanting a low-rider kick-a$$ Reg Cab short bed or a Lexus/Cadillac interior or 15,000# towing capacity well they don't fall into this 'center demographic'. With only 200K units to sell at first being focused is much more important than meeting every single challenge.


    It was a simple question, why so defensive?

    Oh and BTW, why do Toyota fans say that features the GM offers and Toy doesn't consider them insignificant, but they turn around and claim their exclusive features are such a huge advantage?

    It's a truck

    Why doesn't a truck benefit from rain sense wipers and heated washer fluid? Do they not get driven in the rain or in the wintertime? I personally am looking forward to especially the heated washer fluid here in our MN winters. Rain sense wipers I am not real big on though. They seem kinda gimicky.

    ..the DC/EC/SC/QC
    ..with superior towing capacity
    ..good carrying capacity
    ..durability
    ..good fuel economy
    ..nice convenient features without going overboard


    Superior towing capacity? Ok, on paper maybe, but in reality, both truck are more than capable for a 1/2 ton, so this minor difference is a moot point. Also, I still want to know how the mfr's come up with these ratings and if they use the same criteria? Seems to me they could put just about any number they want. ie; If the tundra had come out first, would it still have the same numbers?

    good carrying capacity

    Ditto on above.

    ..durability

    How can Tundra claim superiority here? It just came out!!!

    ..nice convenient features without going overboard

    Completely subjective.
  • jreaganjreagan Posts: 285
    Did I say that Rain sense wipers and Heated washer fluid outdo anything? I just asked a simple question.

    BTW, all GM's have audio input jacks and MP3 capability is available too.

    Vehicle Stability Control, Traction Control, ABS with EBD, and Brake Assist on Tundra as opposed to ABS and StabiliTrak on Silverado

    Same thing, different terminology. Except brake assist.

    Bose or JBL? I am guessing both sound very good. No advantage for either here. But I would have to hear them both to say for sure.

    Not sure about rear HVAC in the GM's, but my 2000 has rear HVAC ducts, most people may not even know about the floor heat ducts because they are concealed very nicely under the front seats. The A/C ducts are in the rear of the console.

    - standard side, side-curtain, and front air bags for Tundra where just the fronts are standard on the Chevy with the option to have side-curtains on some models (no sides available).

    Huh? Mine will have Side-curtain air bags.

    - Tundra has better performance in acceleration, handling, handling under load, and braking then the Silverado (as mentioned by performance numbers in virtually every comparison test).

    There is that "qualifying" word again..."Virtually". The tests I saw said the GM handled and rode better, especially on rough terrain. PM claimed te tundra "tossed" around the interior contents due to a rough ride on gravel roads.

    - Towing payload numbers favor Tundra in various configurations by 2 to 1.
    See my other post regarding these Subjective numbers.

    - Tighter turning radius on Tundra then on Silverado on all models.
    I'll borrow Spyder's phrase here.. It's a truck!!

    I have not seen ANY cold hard, provable facts that make the Tundra superior overall. Their few pluses do not outweigh GM's pluses IMO.
  • pmuscepmusce Posts: 132
    Belias,

    I'll reply to this post on the weekend because it will be long and I'm at work right now. Some of what you posted is innacurate and alot is subjective.
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    "....and alot is subjective."

    Seems to be a lot of that going around these days..... :sick:
  • beliasbelias Posts: 316
    Did I say that Rain sense wipers and Heated washer fluid outdo anything? I just asked a simple question.

    BTW, all GM's have audio input jacks and MP3 capability is available too.


    You're wrong on this; base models do not include audio input jacks.


    Vehicle Stability Control, Traction Control, ABS with EBD, and Brake Assist on Tundra as opposed to ABS and StabiliTrak on Silverado

    Same thing, different terminology. Except brake assist.


    Again, partially correct... just please go to the Toyota web site and read about the actual technology, to sum up, there is much more going on with Toyota's.

    Bose or JBL? I am guessing both sound very good. No advantage for either here. But I would have to hear them both to say for sure.

    Admittedly this isn't super important to me, but this JBL setup is WAY better than Bose (and I have Bose in my car, so I'm speaking from some experience). The Bose system in the Silverado isn't very strong at all and is difficult to balance -- they're known not to have good bass response at all -- though the subwoofer did help somewhat. Either way, no biggie, but 9 out of 10 people that care about audio are going to go for the JBL system not so much because JBL is the end-all of audio (no where near that), but because they are many times better than Bose...

    Not sure about rear HVAC in the GM's, but my 2000 has rear HVAC ducts, most people may not even know about the floor heat ducts because they are concealed very nicely under the front seats. The A/C ducts are in the rear of the console.

    If that is true, it isn't mentioned anywhere on Chevy's site; don't know if it is or not...

    - standard side, side-curtain, and front air bags for Tundra where just the fronts are standard on the Chevy with the option to have side-curtains on some models (no sides available).

    Huh? Mine will have Side-curtain air bags.


    my typo... I meant to say that the option to have side air bags is unavailable.

    - Tundra has better performance in acceleration, handling, handling under load, and braking then the Silverado (as mentioned by performance numbers in virtually every comparison test).

    There is that "qualifying" word again..."Virtually". The tests I saw said the GM handled and rode better, especially on rough terrain. PM claimed the tundra "tossed" around the interior contents due to a rough ride on gravel roads.

    Wrong again, I don't know where you got that statement from, but wasn't at PM and since you used PM as a reference, check out that they said that the Silverado was "lethargic". Also check the numbers, almost all of them favor the Tundra vs the Silverado. Yes that is a qualifying word -- that saves time of having to cut and paste material that has been repeatedly posted on this forum. And that test that claimed that the Silverado "rode" better compared it to a TRD off-road Tundra; it would have been a better ride had a regular Tundar been compared to a Z71 Silverado too. This has been posted several times!! Why do we need to continually quote this for you! Go look!
    - Towing payload numbers favor Tundra in various configurations by 2 to 1.
    See my other post regarding these Subjective numbers.
    kdhspyder and others have already taken the time to post all the towing and payload comparisons and they are overwhelmingly in Tundra's favor. If you're too lazy to go look at those posts again, don't bother complaining.

    - Tighter turning radius on Tundra then on Silverado on all models.
    I'll borrow Spyder's phrase here.. It's a truck!!
    Yes of course its a truck! You started this asking for specifics when you mentioned the "rain-sense" wipers and "heated washer fluid". You think those are more "truck-like" then having a tighter turning radius?

    I have not seen ANY cold hard, provable facts that make the Tundra superior overall. Their few pluses do not outweigh GM's pluses IMO.

    Of course you haven't seen any cold hard provable facts that make the Tundra superior -- you haven't been reading this forum -- all you've been doing is looking for the tiniest excuses to show that the Silverado has something that the Tundra doesn't. Fine, heck, throw in the plastic gas gap argument while you're at it. If reviews from Edmunds, PM, Motor Trend, and CR, as well as that Towing magazine aren't enough to convince you of the many areas where the Tundra bettered the Silverado (including reliability responses from actual owners of Silverados and Sierras) and the many specifications, both on paper and in performance tests where they are shown to have favored the Tundra as well, then there is something seriously flawed with your logic.

    Nobody is going to tell you what to choose (in fact you made your choice already so you're statements are inherently biased), but again, I revert to the Chevy posters' logic here: if Chevy has any advantage it is all important for the use of a truck; if it gets beaten on the majority of areas where trucks are compared and have been compared to each other for the last 30 years, then it isn't important and doesn't matter any more. Great approach... unbelievably hypocritical
  • pmuscepmusce Posts: 132
    " "....and alot is subjective."

    Seems to be a lot of that going around these days..... "

    That's true, but then again vehicle preferences mostly are. Every one has different priorities when purchasing vehicles. Subjective opinions should not be presented as facts though. I happen to think the Tundra is very ungainly looking and poorly proportioned, especially in crew max configuration where the rear doors are larger than the front doors. Is the above statement a fact? No, because there are people on this site who seem to like the look.
  • pmuscepmusce Posts: 132
    'If reviews from Edmunds, PM, Motor Trend, and CR, as well as that Towing magazine aren't enough to convince you of the many areas where the Tundra bettered the Silverado (including reliability responses from actual owners of Silverados and Sierras) and the many specifications, both on paper and in performance tests where they are shown to have favored the Tundra as well, then there is something seriously flawed with your logic.'

    Belias,

    I would take Motor Trend out of your list. The Silverado beats the Tundra in a head to head comparison in the April 2007 Issue. The Tundra had the 5.7 and the Silverado had the 5.3 in this test.
  • joeshmowjoeshmow Posts: 9
    New pickup trucks are getting to be like cell phone companies to me, namely which one do I dislike the least - and I don't even know - I don't like any of them! The new Tundra is a huge disappointment for me. I don't know what those geniuses were planning out and engineering for all these years "special for the American market" - and yet it didn't dawn upon them that a lot of Americans are tall and might, duh, need head room! Looks like the plan was just to put together a lot of fancy glitzy junk and make it look garish, and make it go fast, and make it real big on the outside, and bank on the old Toyota reputation, and that's all there is to it!
  • joeshmowjoeshmow Posts: 9
    The company that spends the most on advertising gets the best review.
  • beliasbelias Posts: 316
    Well, the Motor Trend did not use the new Tundra in the direct comparison of the vehicles when they awarded the "Truck of the Year Award"; beyond that, I have not seen the April 2007 issue (since March just started yesterday)but they did post a "First Drive" of the 07 Tundra online and one of their quotes that is particularly applicable here is "The only thing that might keep you from thinking of the '07 Tundra as an American pickup truck is your own nationalistic prejudice." Quite frankly that is not something I consider valuable to me, but it makes the point about how people think.
    Again, I didn't say ALL, I said the majority of them; just like the majority of the configurations of the Tundra have better towing/payload specs than the Silverado. It isn't subjective if it is summed up people. Subjectiveness are things that can't be quantified such as "looks" and such. Personally I don't like the look of the Silverado at all -- it looks old -- but the Sierra Denali looks better. The Tundra I think looks great -- modern, large, and masculine. Heck, look at what Chevy did with the Tahoe/Suburban/Avalanche -- great all the way around except for the front-ends, those are soccer-mom vehicles now, nothing remotely tough about their looks. As you said, this is subjective. Thankfully the Silverado doesn't look like the Tahoe/Suburban/Avalanche, but it still looks old to me. And since when are things like power numbers, performance numbers, and towing numbers subjective? I think I have a better way to tackle this problem though...
  • beliasbelias Posts: 316
    Which engine is stronger? Chevy 6.0 or Toyota 5.7?
    (remember this is not subjective -- answer honestly)
  • beliasbelias Posts: 316
    Which interiors have more room, the Chevy or the Toyota?
    Regular cab interior room?
    Extended/Double cab interior room?
    Crew/CrewMax cab interior room?
  • beliasbelias Posts: 316
    Which truck has larger disc brakes and wheels, the Chevy or the Toyota?
  • beliasbelias Posts: 316
    Which truck has more air bags, Chevy or Toyota?
  • beliasbelias Posts: 316
    Which truck has more safety/control features, Chevy or Toyota?
  • beliasbelias Posts: 316
    Well, the Chevy posters made me resort to having to ask the simplest of questions in order to put aside this "non-subjective" section of the comparison to rest. I want to continue posting, but I have to get going... if somebody else can continue and follow through with more questions, that would be great, but remember, no "subjectiveness". I look forward to the answers (I think the Chevy posters will have a lot of "buts" in their reply -- subjectiveness yet again!) :D
  • pmuscepmusce Posts: 132
    Answer - Toyota 5.7

    Here is one for you:

    Which Engine is stronger? Chevy 5.3 or Toyota 4.7?
    Which Engine is stronger? Chevy 4.8 or Toyota 4.7?

    Belias, I have never debated the merits of Toyota's 5.7. Its certainly a strong motor. Will GM/Ford/Chrysler/Nissan trump it in the near future? Absolutly. The full size pickup horsepower wars are nothing new. Each company takes turns having the strongest. The strongest today is GM's 6.2 V8 although it is limited in its availability to the Sierra Denali (that will change in 2008).

    I heard the same argument about the Nissan Titan and how they were going to conquer the full size pickup market because they had this monster V8 motor.
  • pmuscepmusce Posts: 132
    Not sure how size of the disk brakes has anything to do with braking performance. Their are many factors that result in good braking performance. The Silverado beat the Tundra in braking in both the Car and Driver and Motor Trend comparison. Having said that, I think both truck brake very well.
  • pmuscepmusce Posts: 132
    What do you mean by more room? I've sat in both trucks and I don't see any issue with lack of room in either. Does the fact that one truck has 1/4 inch more legroom make it a better truck?

    Speaking of Extended Cab/Double Cab, this is an area where I will take the GMT900 setup over the Tundra setup anyday. The Tundra has small rear doors on their double cab with a solid B pillar. The opening on those rear doors are extremely small. The GMT900 Extended Cabs have no B pillar and are much easier getting into the back. As well, you will be able to load large items into the cab of th GMT900 trucks that will not fit into the Double Cab Tundra because of the B pillar.

    While the CrewMax certainly has a lot of interior room, I find it very ungainly looking with those huge rear doors (and yes that is my subjective opinion). Anybody in the back of that truck will have fun trying to open those doors in a parking lot with dinging the car next to them. The reason those doors are so big is clear. Toyota uses the same front door for both the double cab and CrewMax (I'm sure for cost reasons). The front door had to be make smaller to accomodate a decent size for the back door of the double cab. The result is a very large rear door on the Crew Max. The GMT900 Crew Cab doors are more proportional.
This discussion has been closed.