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Toyota Tundra vs. Chevrolet Silverado

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Comments

  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    good catch on the F-Series.. You're right of course.

    Both Ford and Dodge are downsizing. Ford's I know already effect the F-series with the closure of Norfolk. Dodge? maybe too early to tell.
  • jreaganjreagan Posts: 285
    Toyota only gains revenue if they increase the invoice price to the distributors. They get no benefit from retail markup at the distributor or dealer levels.

    Of course not, but higher invoice pricing drives up MSRP pricing.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Depending on your equipment it's about the same as the $2500 discount, if true, offered on the new Tundras. You save a more with 0% than 2.9%
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    But right from jump street Toyota's MSRP's, and probably their invoices, are well below both the Silvy and the Sierra....all equipment being equal.

    By doing this it makes GM react, as in your case, by being more agressive. Making the other guy 'blink' is always a good thing in business.
  • jreaganjreagan Posts: 285
    Not according to my research. I priced the Toyota and it listed higher with equivalent equipment. About $1500 higher if my memory serves me correctly. Mine listed for about $42.5K and the Tundra was close to $44K
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    I showed the MSRP's above. Those are right off the websites.
  • jreaganjreagan Posts: 285
    I am referring to the MSRP's for the top-tier models. GMC Sierra SLT Crewcab with 6.0l and the Tundra Crewmax Ltd with 5.7L. I even asked others what they found for MSRP on a fully loaded Tundra and it was around $45K. Mine was $42.5K (MSRP) $39K (Invoice) Loaded with EVERYTHING except Nav/rear DVD.
  • jreaganjreagan Posts: 285
    PS: Even though I am excited to be getting my new truck next week. Today was a very sad day for me selling my 2000 to my brother. That truck has been awesome for me. I do feel glad that it is still in the family and not going to some stranger who may not take care of it the way I did. But it was tough seeing it in his driveway this afternoon. Would I be saying this if I had reliability issues with it? Oh, and BTW, I went through this same thing 7-1/2 years ago when I sold my 89 to my best friend and bought my 2000 brand new. And yes, he had continued GREAT luck with my 89 and drove it until just last year before buying a new one. It has almost 300K miles on it and is still going strong.
  • At the North American International Auto Show in Detroit in January 07, I performed the following unscientific and admittedly subjective test on display models of the new Tundra, the new Silverado, the Titan, the F-150, and the Dodge Ram. 1. Open driver side door. 2. From the outside of the truck, brace your right knee against the exterior sheet metal about 1 foot above the door bottom and about 2-3 inches from the open edge of the door (where it's strongest and you won't bend the sheet metal). Take your right hand, grab hold of the top edge of the door frame above the window and pull the top edge toward you. I describe this s you can do this test yourself, if so inclined, preferably when the salesperson is not looking.

    On the Dodge, Ford, and Chevy, there was no discernable flex in the door when subjected to this stress. On the Nissan there was about 1.5-inch of flex in the door, partly in the door itself and partly at the hinge itself. On the Toyota, there was 1-inch of flex, mostly in the door itself with a little from the hinge. Differently from the Nissan, the flexure in the Tundra door was in the door itself and not from the window frame. The Toyota has a curved shape to the door exterior, giving it some strength relative to the flat metal of the Titan door. Note that I stopped pulling before doing permanent damage--I'm 5'9" and 230 lbs, just for reference.

    So what might this mean. Long term, flexure of this sort in any type of rugged use will lead to premature development of rattles. In a side impact accident, the Toyota and Nissan doors may be more easily compromised (opened or damaged) than the others. The inclusion of side air bags in the Tundra may be a partial compensation for this lighter duty construction. If this is typical of the rest of the construction, it may be a case of a vehicle being benchmarked to meet or exceed some capabilities while ignoring more fundamental characteristics of structural strength. My disclaimer--no reputable organization witnessed or certified this test--just me kicking the tires.
  • jreaganjreagan Posts: 285
    westfieldind,

    You do realize that these Toy-lovers on here will disregard your findings due to lack of hard-concrete "numbers". Evidently they are unable to use common sense. ie: kdhspyder needs hard facts and numbers to understand or admit that a fully boxed frame is better.

    As for flimsy doors, it is understandable since Toy's engineers obviously were prioritizing 0-60 times and making a large truck and didn't consider the entire package taking into account the "little things" that make a good truck great. Flimsy doors will not only lead to rattles, but they will also undoubtedly lead to leaky seals due to inconsistent sealing around the entire perimeter of the door. Doors and hinges that are robust and structurally more rigid will resist air leaks and door "sag" over time. But I suppose spyder will need "numbers' to understand this.
    But hey!, The Tundra has the best 0-60 time..for the next few months or so at the most (until the 6.2 GM becomes widely available). Now that's what's important, right?
  • jreaganjreagan Posts: 285
    Ok, Here are some MSRP comparison numbers obtained right here on Edmunds.com. These numbers I found to be extremely accurate with the dealer's numbers, at least on my particular vehicle. Also, these numbers are based on comparably equipped trucks, as noted.

    2007 GMC Sierra SLT 4x4 with the following options:
    6.0 engine, includes SD tranny, HD rear diff, ext engine cooling, ext tranny cooling, 4 wheel disc brakes.
    20" aluminum wheels
    Power sunroof (retracts INTO roof on crewcabs)
    Side-head curtain airbags Std on Tundra
    HD trailering pkg
    Locking rear Diff (Unavailable on Tundra)
    Skid plate pkg
    Engine block heater.
    MSRP: $42,930
    Invoice: $38,995 (Price paid by me)
    Discounts: (2) $1000 rebates = $2000 total
    0% financing for 36 months
    Net price paid: $36,995 (not including finance charge savings from 0% deal)

    2007 Toyota Tundra Crewmax Ltd 5.7
    Options:
    20" wheels
    Moonroof
    Cold Kit
    TRD Offroad pkg
    Daytime running lamps. std on GM

    MSRP: $44,435 (closely represents actual sales price)
    Invoice: $40,070
    Discounts: None? w/ Possible $2500 off MSRP ???
    Net price: $41,935

    Did I miss anything?

    Now, tell me which one is less expensive?
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Yep.. you're darn tootin'. If you can't prove any benefit other than it 'feels' better then you've bought into the Ford mechanical bling-bling hype.

    You have every right to enjoy your ride but it's not better for that very questionable feature. It's only your 'impression' that's better.

    ...and the Tundra tows like crazy with a state-of-the-art 6 spd transmission, ( now there's something you can measure ;) ) something only a few T900 models can state. When it comes down to hard facts you're barking up the wrong tree.

    The rest of your statement is supposition at best. That means it carries equal weight as 'it feels more solid'.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    we were talking about two different vehicles. Me the EC vs DC you the CC vs the CM. Both sets of numbers are correct.

    The EC Silvy/Sierra is several thousand more expensive than the DC Tundra.

    The CC Silvy/Sierra is several thousand less expensive than the CM Tundra.

    This leads to the obvious conclusion? [ Hint: Toy plans to produce 60-70% of the vehicles as DC's; 20+% as CM and 10-20% as Reg Cabs ]. They want to compete primarily in the DC/EC/SC/QC market so this is where their pricing is the lowest. Losing sales due to relatively higher prices will not be that critical in the RC's and CM's since the volume will be much, much smaller. Again initially there will only be 175K to 250K units made. Compete where the volume is and the pricing is best applied.
  • jreaganjreagan Posts: 285
    and the Tundra tows like crazy with a state-of-the-art 6 spd transmission,

    I gave you this one, however, what about in 6-9 months when GM is able to put their 6-spd in every 1/2 ton? Then what? Also, when the higher powered 6.2l is readily available in every 1/2 ton? Better enjoy being on top of the "power" heap now, while you can, because it aint gonna last, mark my words.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    I know.. just about the same time the HD Tundra's hit the market. Then there will be a whole 'nother discussion to have. ;)

    Now here is something to consider.. and it's just Sunday afternoon speculation...
    Dodge is supposed to get a diesel 1500...soon.
    Toyota has the Isuzu engineers working on something...?

    How about a 1500 diesel ( and I admit to being on thin ice here ) with a small I4 or I6 that can tow up to say 12000 lbs but get 20-25 mpg all day long with no load?
  • jreaganjreagan Posts: 285
    The EC Silvy/Sierra is several thousand more expensive than the DC Tundra.

    Not according to Edmunds pricing:

    2007 Chev Silvy LTZ 4x4 4dr ext cab with 6.0
    MSRP: $36,205
    Invoice: $33,119

    2007 Toyota Tundra Ltd 4dr double cab w 5.7
    MSRP: $39,195
    Invoice: $35,532

    Explanation please?
  • jreaganjreagan Posts: 285
    I know.. just about the same time the HD Tundra's hit the market. Then there will be a whole 'nother discussion to have.

    Whose talking about HD's? GM will offer the 6.2 and the 6 spd's in the 1/2 tons. Let's stick with 1/2 tons for now. Answer the question...based on 1/2 tons please.
  • jreaganjreagan Posts: 285
    Even the GMC Sierra Denali with the 6.2 liter and the 6-spd tranny prices out similar to the Tundra LTD 5.7 with similar options.

    2007 Sierra Denali AWD 6.2 liter
    with sunroof and 20" wheels:
    MSRP: $44,825
    Invoice: $40,860

    See previous post #1341 for Tundra #'s

    Hmm, for virtually the same price, I could have the MORE POWERFUL, FASTER Denali than the Tundra. With WAY more luxury and features.
    Tough choice???
  • toykickstoykicks Posts: 95
    overcompensation jreagan ;) Wish i had your time.
  • jreaganjreagan Posts: 285
    overcompensation jreagan Wish i had your time.

    Huh?
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Even though we will disagree on this point, there is no way in Edmunds or the Chevy site to spec out a 6.0L Silverado with the Max Trailering Package. It's just not there.

    It is there in the Sierra!

    So the correct comparo is Tundra Ltd vs Sierra SLT
    5.7L vs 5.3L Base prices, Both 4WD
    Both have Stability Ctrl & Trac Ctrl, Leather, Htd seats, premium sound systems, BT vs Onstar

    Base w/Frt : $35150 ... $39195
    ADD:
    curtain A/B...... 395 .. Included
    6.0L w/MTP..... 2265 .. Included
    Tailgate Damp.... 95 .. Included
    Deck Cargo Sys. 175 .. Included
    TOTAL ........$38135 ... $39195

    $1000 difference in favor of the Sierra with the equipment as equal as possible. ( no side A/B Sierra, no rear locker Tundra ) ( 4 spd tranny vs 6 spd tranny )
  • jreaganjreagan Posts: 285
    Forget the Chevy website...go to www.polarchev.com (a local dealer here in MN. Check their inventory. They have a LTZ with the 6.0 and MAX TRAILERING pkg listed on the window sticker (click on "window sticker")

    I will go find the link for you right now... This will put this stupid argument to rest once and for all...
  • jreaganjreagan Posts: 285
    SILVERADO 1500 4WD CREW CAB LTZ
    VORTEC 6.0L V8 SFI GAS ENGINE W/ ACTIVE FUEL MGT TECHNOLOGY
    TRANSMISSION, 4-SPD SUPER DUTY
    Graystone Metallic
    Ebony
    MANUFACTURER'S SUGGESTED RETAIL PRICE
    Options installed by Manufacturer
    NAVIGATION RADIO W/CD/DVD/MP3
    ** REPLACES STD 6-DISC CD **
    $ 2,250.00
    P265/70R17 OOR BW TIRES
    $ 55.00
    EZ LIFT TAILGATE PACKAGE:
    LOCKING TAILGATE
    EZ LIFT TAILGATE
    $ 95.00
    SAFETY PACKAGE:
    HEAD CURTAIN SIDE AIR BAGS
    ADJUSTABLE PEDALS
    REAR PARKING ASSIST
    $ 715.00
    ELECTRIC SLIDING SUNROOF
    $ 685.00
    MAX TRAILERING PACKAGE:
    VORTEC 6.0L V8 367HP/375TOR
    4-SPEED HEAVY DUTY AUTO TRANS
    HEAVY DUTY TRAILERING AXLE
    $ 1,260.00
    OFF ROAD - SKID PLATES
    $ 95.00
    CARGO MANAGEMENT SYSTEM
    $ 175.00
    ENGINE BLOCK HEATER
    $ 50.00
    REAR SEAT ENTERTAINMENT SYSTEM
    $ 1,295.00
    SILVERADO LTZ EQUIPMENT GROUP:
    12 WAY POWER HEATED BUCKET
    SEATS W/DRIVER MEMORY
    LTHR APPTD SEATING SURFACES
    OSRV MIRRORS W/POWER FOLD &
    ADJ, HEAT, TILT, TURN SIGNAL
    AND DRIVER SIDE AUTO DIMMING
    BOSE PREMIUM SPEAKER SYSTEM
    UNIVERSAL HOME REMOTE
    HEATED WASHER FLUID SYSTEM
    RAINSENSE WIPERS
    REMOTE VEHICLE START
    HD TRAILERING EQUIPMENT
    LOCKING REAR DIFFERENTIAL
    STEERING WHEEL RADIO CONTROLS
    POWER LOCKS AND WINDOWS
    INSIDE REARVIEW MIRROR, AUTO
    DIMMING, COMPASS, TEMPERATURE
    REMOTE KEYLESS ENTRY
    AUTOTRAC TRANSFER CASE
    NO CHARGE
    GVW RATING - 7,300 LBS
    NO CHARGE
    XM SATELLITE RADIO - SERVICE
    FEE EXTRA. 1ST 3 MONTHS INCL.
    $ 199.00
    TOTAL OPTIONS $5,499.20
    TOTAL VEHICLE & OPTIONS $0.00
    DESTINATION CHARGE $900.00
    TOTAL VEHICLE PRICE*** $45,864.00
    CURRENT OFFERS $-0.00
    NET PRICE $0.00

    Now do you beleive me?

    http://www.polarchev.com/inventory/details.aspx?id=80935&s=n&y=2007&d=Chevrolet&- - m=Silverado%201500

    Click on window sticker
  • jreaganjreagan Posts: 285
    Is IS also available on the Edmunds website...Look again

    http://www.edmunds.com/new/2007/chevrolet/silverado1500/100810026/options.html?a- ction=1&x=50&y=15

    3rd item on options list...
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Yep you are right and it seems that the NHT is offered as you indicate on that sticker.

    I will graciously acquiece and state that you are and have been correct in the trailering issue. Nicely done.
  • jreaganjreagan Posts: 285
    no side A/B Sierra,

    Huh, It certainly does have side-curtain airbags. Just cuz they call them head-side curtain airbags doesn't mean a thing. They are the same thing!!! They protect from the armrest up, and the GM's are smarter.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Nope the difference is that they have side curtain airbags but not a separate set of side torso airbags.

    They've been to airbag school longer?
  • jreaganjreagan Posts: 285
    Sure, when you tailor the comparison to include items that are standard on Tundra and optional on GM, you can get the numbers close, but that's it...close!!! (within $1000). Try comparing with no options other than those necessary to get them equally equipped. Or randomly? Bottom line, GM's are cheaper by a MINIMUM of $1000 and the difference goes up from there.
    And this is based on MSRP's Tundras sell at MSRP, GM's sell at invoice...now crunch the numbers!!! I'll wait...
  • jreaganjreagan Posts: 285
    Their airbags are combined...same area of protection.

    Smarter = They detect type of crash (side impact vs rollover) and they can stay inflated for up to 6 seconds in a rollover to prevent secondary (post-impact) injury or ejection.
    Cool huh?
  • jreaganjreagan Posts: 285
    Oh and BTW, you can get the 6.0 without ordering the Max trailering pkg for only $1000 instead of $2k+.... I know, I did it.
    So, for comparisons, opt for the 6.0 without max trailering pkg. This will make the GM's even less and will still provide everything except 4.10 gears. (You will have to add HD towing pkg for about $350 though).
This discussion has been closed.