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Toyota Tundra vs. Chevrolet Silverado

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Comments

  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Posts: 1,150
    Can we move on? Beyond air bags and stabiltrak? I think we can all agree that GM wanted to keep the cost down and didn't include them. Its unfortunate that the public sector and utility workers (no one else really buys/drives these) who drive the base model, regular cabs won't have these extra air bags and stabiltrak.

    Now, how about the many other features we can talk about: who has the widest array of options, whose quality/CSI ratings is moving up and whose is moving down, is the Toyotya/GM dealer experience moving toward the same (low) common denominator, etc. etc.
  • 1offroader1offroader Posts: 208
    Should that kill a deal?

    Of course it won't kill a deal. But, for the do-it-yourself mechanic it's a real issue. I do most of my own maintenance, and I change oil every 3,000+/- miles. This is a regular, unpleasant event in my life, and I'd rather it be as fast and pain-free as possible. Why should it be an ordeal? BTW, I never said it was difficult on the Tundra - I just don't know. Maybe it's easy. What I'm saying is, why shouldn't it be easy? If the Toy engineers know what they're doing, it will be. If not, then not. My previous experience with Toyotas in this regard was very negative. They should have learned from, and corrected, the mistakes of the past when designing a whole new pickup.

    Does anyone care to explain where the oil filter is on the Tundra, and the ease of access? kcram is right - aren't we supposed to be comparing various features of the Tundra and Silverado on this board? I explained the Silverado oil change procedure, so it's the Tundra owners' turn. So, let's hear about it.

    So drfill, your point is what, exactly? This issue shouldn't be considered at all? I sense just a wee bit of defensiveness...

    And what does the new Lexus have to do at all with the Tundra and Silverado???? Let's keep it on topic, OK?

    1offroader
  • ggesqggesq Posts: 701
    According to the members on tundrasolutions.com, changing the oil by yourself can be done. No one has posted that it was a difficult procedure. However, one member said that if the Tundra came with a skidplate, getting the skidplate off can be a pain. Also, it is a cartridge filter like BMW has used for many years. My understanding (limited) is that the cartridge system is more involved than the twist type. More steps involved and you need tools?? Should use about 8 quarts.
  • maple2maple2 Posts: 177
    And your point is......don't buy a Tundra if the oil filter is hard to get to?

    No the point is why in the world would they design a system that you need to remove the front skid plates to do a simple job like changing the oil?

    Take a look at a new Lexus. Virtually everything under the hood is protected. Should that kill a deal?

    it would for me

    Some people buy filters, I'd buy a great car/truck, then worry about the filter.

    Whos worried about the filter? im not,seems only the toyota guys are worried, my chevy takes me about 10-15 minutes from start to finish. Toyota guys should probley have figured out which bolts they need to remove to get the skid plates off by then.
  • 1offroader1offroader Posts: 208
    According to the members on tundrasolutions.com, changing the oil by yourself can be done.

    Well, of course it can be done. Duh. The question is, how difficult is it? No one seems to want to answer that. All I'm asking is for a Tundra owner to provide some info. regarding a routine procedure that needs to be done every 2-3 months for most drivers. What's the problem?

    1offroader
  • ggesqggesq Posts: 701
    Apparently, if noone in the tundrasolutions forum says it is difficult then it must not be! Duh.
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    The point is if Toyota, or Lexus, wanted everyone to do their own maintenance under every circumstance, they'd make it easy to do so.

    Toyota may indeed have you returning to the dealer for service as one of it's priorities, and a way to make sure you are taking care of the vehicle properly.

    Since the dealer may not necessarily see the owner as often as the domestics, this is built in to support the dealer network, and help them contribute to the bottom line, if not in service, than in maintenance.

    Maybe even avoid another engine sludge issue? Just an opinion.

    Do you think the Toyota dealer wants to see the customer more than once every 3-5 years? :confuse:

    Like it or not, it's no accident or oversight. They have a good reason. I don't think they want you to treat a '07 Tundra like a 20-year-old C/K, do you?

    DrFill
  • 1offroader1offroader Posts: 208
    The point is if Toyota, or Lexus, wanted everyone to do their own maintenance under every circumstance, they'd make it easy to do so.

    drfill you make me laugh at your hypocrisy! Your memory loss is so...so...selective. It seems to me in a previous post you stated that Toyota was "aiming at the center of the market" with the Tundra. OK, fine. The center of the full-size truck market is men, many, if not most, of whom prefer to do their own basic maintenance. In fact, I'd wager that the percentage of truck owners who prefer to do their own basic maintenance is HUGE compared to the average Lexus owner. It's either one or the other, drfill. We aren't going to let you have it both ways.

    You read it here first, folks. drfill says that Toyota designs their trucks purposely so that the average Joe can't do his own oil changes.

    Apparently, if noone in the tundrasolutions forum says it is difficult then it must not be! Duh.

    ggesq, let's just say that if no one on the tundrasolutions forum says it's EASY, it must be DIFFICULT. Duh.
  • rubendogrubendog Posts: 7
    Just read the Motor Trend/Truck Trend 'Truck of the Year' comparison, in the March/April 2007 issue. Picture of the blue Tundra and red Silverado on the cover with the screaming words "Truck of the Year vs Truck of the Decade"

    What a useless comparison.

    The 'Truck of the Year' section doesn't include the Tundra. In fact, it ONLY includes 4 GM trucks vs a Ford Explorer Sport Trac. Hmmm, can the Silvy really beat the Avalance or the Sierra, or the Escalade? Or will the little Sport Trac whoop them all? Who cares! A competition with no competitors is meaningless. Why not just say that the 2007 Silverado is the best Chevy truck this year!

    Then, in a SEPARATE section of the magazine they test the Silvy vs the Tundra. But in that section they don't have enough guts to draw any worthwhile conclusions. Furthermore, they compare an Offroad Tundra setup against on Onroad Silvy setup (tires and suspensions aren't comparable). So what do they conclude? Well, the tundra works a little better in the dirt and the silvy a bit better on pavement.

    Again, this is a useless comparison which they blame on what the manufacturers sent to them. If I'm buying a truck I want to compare similar models. Tell the manufacturers to send you trucks setup for towing, or for offroad, or for road comfort; whichever you want to test, but have them setup comparably. Yes, they do say the little features here and there are better on one or the other – like the debate here.

    Bottom line, nobody is going to do an objective test. These trucks have gotten too close and no magazine wants to risk pissing off one of the manufacturers or a large segment of their readership. So, the tests are designed with easy justification to explain away any apparent advantages or disadvantages, and let everyone feel like a winner.

    Save your $4 and simply pick the truck you like best, you sure can’t buy an objective review with that little money.
  • rubendogrubendog Posts: 7
    Interesting to note their test of the new GM 6.2L V8 paired with the new GM 6-speed trany shot the Escalade EXT pickup 0-60 in 6.5 seconds.

    Their test of the Tundra 5.7 resulted in 0-60 in 6.0 seconds.

    So, the new GM 6.2L/6-speed may not be a dramatically better package than the Toyota 5.7L/6-speed setup. We'll need to see some torque/hp graphs to see what's going on.

    Of course this is an academic topic for now since the 6.2L/6-speed is in a truck costing $63k. Bling!
  • maple2maple2 Posts: 177
    The point is if Toyota, or Lexus, wanted everyone to do their own maintenance under every circumstance, they'd make it easy to do so.

    Toyota may indeed have you returning to the dealer for service as one of it's priorities, and a way to make sure you are taking care of the vehicle properly.

    Since the dealer may not necessarily see the owner as often as the domestics, this is built in to support the dealer network, and help them contribute to the bottom line, if not in service, than in maintenance.


    you are joking right? you cant be serious. Could anybody be so naive to think there could be any truth to this? I cant wait to see the proof you mistakenly left out :sick:
  • pmuscepmusce Posts: 132
    rubendog,

    Motortrend does compare the Silverado and Tundra in the April issue and Silverado wins. It will probably be in the next issue of Truck Trend as well.
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    IMO, Toyota chose to build a great truck, and would prefer you to take it to Toyota for scheduled maintainance.

    Good truck for the customer, in-flux of customers for service department.

    If someone HAS TO work on the truck themselves, why would it they complain that it is not so simple. That's why it's called work. ;)

    If the location of the filter is a dealbreaker.....

    DrFill
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    That's right. MT played the value card on the $42k Tundra LTD. That made sense. The performance advantages were significant, but not to the outcome. Easy to poke holes in that article, but I chose not to. It is what it is. Draw your own conclusions.

    DrFill
  • rubendogrubendog Posts: 7
    It's offensive that a magazine would run a 'Truck of the Year' comparison that only includes 1/2 ton models from ONE maker. People who don't bother to read the article will assume that the title 'Truck of the Year' actually means something.

    The manufacturers tout these awards like they won.

    Sorry, I'll end my rant now. Hopefully, I'll save someone $4. :)
  • 1offroader1offroader Posts: 208
    drfill,

    Seeing as how you're "not sensitive" about Tundra maintenance issues, and seeing as how Toyota is "aiming for the center of the market" as you say, then you won't mind at all if I continue asking the questions as often as necessary until we get an answer, right?

    So here goes again (and again, if necessary): What is required to do a routine change of engine oil and filter on the new Tundra? Where is the filter located? How easy is the access?

    1offroader
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    It's a cartridge type filter that is accessed from underneath. It's located front side on the driver's side tilted down. Those with skid plats will have to remove the plates.

    Here's one. Progressively some stores for competitive purposes will do the oil and filters for free..... forever.
    The costs then are;
    air filters.. as needed
    tires, wipers, brakes, coolant as required by conditions and driving
    spark plugs 100K miles min
    4WD lube according to driving and vehicle.
  • bugchuckerbugchucker Posts: 118
    I'm shocked that someone would want to change their own oil! I guess that we all put a different value on our free time. I did test drive the DC Limited Tundra today. Impressive to say the least. I really liked the Nav option.

    My BMW loving wife was surprised that maintainence services on the Tundra were not free and that they didn't utilize synthetic oil. I guess we all have different expectations as well.
  • beliasbelias Posts: 316
    Don't know how easy/difficult it is to do the oil change on the Tundra, but I agree that something like this should be quite basic. As for why they went to the cartridge system, I've seen various explanations for it on the web, but none that really make much sense. For instance, many performance vehicles like BMWs use this system and it has been used on and off over the last few decades. If it is difficult to do then this is a problem, albeit not a big one, but at least one that should have been avoided.
    I think that keeping things simple in this regard would have been more advantageous, however, there may be some weird benefit to the cartridge system that I haven't heard of yet. Even if there is, I can't see it being that big a deal. Either way, changing oil means getting under the vehicle. If it means doing it one way instead of another I don't think that is going to matter too much to anybody unless it is a really big problem. Seems like the Tundra uses a lot of it though... 8.7 quarts? I have to recheck that number, but I thought that was it...
  • xbbusterxbbuster Posts: 145
    Getting a little snobby aren't we? Or just easily shocked at someone doing their own maintenance. I took my truck in for it's first oil change. Had to wait 45 minutes in a waiting room with a bunch of women on their cell phones. Went to check on the truck just in time to see a snot nose kid replacing the drain plug while oil was still running out. He then pulled a hose from the ceiling to add who knows what to the oil fill. I checked the oil when I got home and I was a half quart low. Talk about shocked. Never again, I'll do it myself.
  • pmuscepmusce Posts: 132
    "That's right. MT played the value card on the $42k Tundra LTD. That made sense. The performance advantages were significant, but not to the outcome. Easy to poke holes in that article, but I chose not to. It is what it is. Draw your own conclusions. "

    I could just as easily poke holes in the Edmunds comparison of the two trucks as well. Typical of this forum, any advantage the GMT900's have is down played or ignored.

    As for drawing your own conclusions, you got that right. Over 70,000 people did that in February and bought a GM full size pickup.
  • beliasbelias Posts: 316
    Just a side note that February sales for the Silverado eclipsed the F150, so this may be the first year that the Silverado by itself outsells the F150. I've already noticed that the Ford commercials are saying that the "F series" pickup is the best selling 30 years running. If I'm not mistaken, they used to say the "F-150" is the best selling.
    In any case, even if the Tundra were worlds ahead of the Silverado, it would not out-sell it. Selling volume is more of an indicator of established brand equity and how entrenched a company is in its target market. Obviously the Tundra has a long way to go in this respect. But that doesn't mean that they won't be a big player in this market. It just means that it isn't right now. Getting there will take many years.
    For now, I'm still concerned that there aren't huge differences in these trucks aside from what appeals to people's personal preference/taste. The thread itself is kind of exhausting meaningful differences other than bragging rights. But at the very least it can be acknowledged that there is another legitimate contender in the full-size truck market. How that plays out in the next few years will depends on many different factors. I think that ultimately the company's financial picture will come into play more strongly as more price pressure is put on this segment. Ford has the most to loose from this scenario so far.
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    "Typical of this forum, any advantage the GMT900's have is down played or ignored."

    You're half right.

    See, there are Chevy guys in here and Toyota guys. And what happens is that the Chevy guys trumpet all advantages that the GMT900's have while they downplay or ignore the advantages of the Tundra.

    And the Toyota guys trumpet all advantages that the Tundra has while they downplay or ignore the advantages of the GMT900's.

    It's what passes for "debate" these days: ignore the other guy's point and only press your own. At least it's better than name calling which (apparently) got at least one GM fan kicked out of Edmunds.

    I will offer this: the previous Chevy's were better than the previous Tundras for serious truck guys. GM has made the new Silverado better. At the same time, Toyota has made the Tundra MUCH better (in terms of what matters to serious truck guys).

    Now, is the new Chevy better than the new Toyota? Personally, I think that BOTH are exceptionally capable trucks likely to provide YEARS of fine service to virtually anyone in the market for a 1/2 ton. They EACH have their own set of strengths and weaknesses; continually arguing about which is the "best" is (IMO) stupid, since different buyers appreciate different qualities/features.

    As far as sales numbers: does McDonald's make the best hamburger just because they sell more? Personally, I don't give a rip HOW many people bought vehicle 'x' last year or last month.
  • pmuscepmusce Posts: 132
    I can't speak for others on this forum, but I have never ignored any advantages that the Tundra has over the GMT900's. The reason I mentioned the sales was to point out that clearly the GMT900's are very appealing trucks. You are correct that sales do not equate the being the best. If that were the case, the Camry would not be the best selling mid-size car :) Before anyone asks, my answer would be Accord.
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    I have no problem saying the Silverado is as good as the Tundra, or vice versa. They each have different strengths, and will probably appeal to different buyers. I don't think either truck will lose sales to the other. They can take from Dodge, Nissan, and Ford, and their own customer base, which is just fine.

    Using GM's sales against the Tundra is useless, since Toyota may not be able to even build 200k units this year. That doesn't mean the Tundra is inferior, just not established as a brand. This will take a generation, or two. I think Toyota will continue to gain ground, and in 2 years, we can reaccess.

    GM and Toyota should be commended. They've both raised the state-of-the-art. :)

    DrFill
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,661
    You took the words right out of my mouth. :) I posted the following over on Straightline the other day.

    http://blogs.edmunds.com/Straightline/2460

    Bob
  • KCRamKCRam Mt. Arlington NJPosts: 3,516
    Both claims are correct. The F-150 is the best selling single nameplate model, since it accounts for about 60-65% of all F-Series sales. The F-Series has indeed been the best selling line for all those years.

    If Ford doesn't get their house in order, that could change for 2007.

    kcram - Pickups Host
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Posts: 1,150
    My Porsche Cayenne uses a cartridge and I've wondered why. Maybe it is because the cartridge won't blow off on a cold morning as a spin-on will? The oil change interval is something like 20K on these things, much to long for me, but maybe the cartridge has something to do with this? I'd love to know if the V6 Toureg which is essentially the same engine has a cartridge or the more consumer friendly spin on.
  • 1offroader1offroader Posts: 208
    there may be some weird benefit to the cartridge system that I haven't heard of yet

    Yes, belias, there is a weird benefit. It's called "profit". The cartridge filters are not nearly as available as the spin-on types, and they are a lot more $$$. Plus, given the apparent relative complexity of doing it yourself on the Tundra, some portion of those who might've done their own will resort to the dealer. So, the dealer profits by either selling the filters, or having you pay to have them do the entire job. Next question - what does the Toyota dealer charge for the oil & filter change? I'm going to guess between $40-$50. I can do the Silverado for about $13 if I get the oil & filters on sale.

    bugchucker just can't believe that someone would want to spend time changing their own oil. Yikes! What an elitist attitude. Hard to believe he's/she's a pickup owner, but I guess it takes all kinds...

    It takes me a HECKUVA lot less time to do it myself. About 15 minutes on the Silverado. It takes most people more time than that just to drive to the dealer (or wherever) to have it done, not to mention the wait and then the drive home.

    Then there is the issue of QUALITY - I've either personally experienced or witnessed stripped-out oil pan drain plug threads; cross-threaded filters; insufficiently tightened filters; overly tightened filters; too much oil; too little oil; and incorrect oil type/viscosity.

    When I do the work it's ALWAYS done right and it's done in much less time. I recommend it to everyone (except bugchucker).

    Hey, props go to the Tundra fans who at least answered my questions about the procedure & etc. At least you're (reluctantly) honest about the Tundra being a PITA on the oil change issue.

    1offroader
  • bugchuckerbugchucker Posts: 118
    I like having my oil changed by the dealer. I give them my keys. I enjoyed a pastry and fresh brewed coffee. I cruise the internet or check out their new vehicles. 45 minutes later, I'm out the door. Car is even washed. If that is elitist, I'm okay with that. BTW, I don't cut grass either.
This discussion has been closed.