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Toyota Tundra vs. Chevrolet Silverado

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  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    more powerful than any other 1/2 ton in existence.

    Careful kd, I don't think your fuzzy math is adding up. The Sierra Denali, is SAE certified at 400 hp. and 417 lbs. Tq. which whips the pants off your 381 hp & 401 tq Tundra ;) :P :D

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    kd,

    Do you have any evidence that supports your claims ????

    http://www.gmc.com/sierra900/1500/specsDimension.jsp

    If the Silverado can't pull 10500 then certainly the Tundra can't ?

    Dr.Fill, you told us all the Silverado, doesn't have the "work truck" capability's of the new Tundra. I've read on various sites that say the Silverado has the highest payload of any half-ton truck which I would think would be critical to a work truck wouldn't it ????? :blush:

    My god, some of y'all are rough. I had to go out and make sure y'alls claims were factual. My research and conclusion is y'all are giving me more Potato's than Meat to phrase it in nicer words. ;)

    Rocky
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Rockylee,
    The Denali will be a small volume very top-end model to the GMC line..when it comes out. The 6.2L will likely be very competitive with the 5.7L Tundra but only in one configuration Denali vs Crew Max Ltd at 'beaucoup bucks'. That assumes that GM doesn't put some secret closed loop power damper into the programing either.

    For the rest of the truck market the Tundra 5.7L can be bought in a Reg Cab, Double Cab, Crew Max, 2WD or 4WD, Ltd or SR5 standard version for Joe-everyday-truck-buyer.

    Regarding the phantom 10,500# towing capacity of the 6.0L it goes to the GM 'Build and Price' feature on the website as compared to the specs/capacities on the same website.

    Here's the specifics.
    The 4WD EC Std bed version with the 6.0L has a standard towing capacity of 8600#. ( see specifications/capacities/trailering )
    Just below this there is the option to go up to 10000#+ if the vehicle has the 'Max Trailering Package'.
    Fair enough:
    .. Now go to the 'Build and Price' feature for a 2007 Silvy EC Std bed 4WD 2LT.
    .. Go through all the steps and try to find a 6.0L engine anywhere as an option. It's not there. You can't build one and I presume order one.
    .. But you can get the 6.0L if you know enough to order the Z71 Off Road Package.
    .. But there is no option to order the 'Max Trailering Package' which the specs above state must be added in order to get the 10000#+ Towing. there is the normal HD Trailering package but that only give you an 8600# capacity.

    So if you can somehow find the 6.0L to order it you can't get the best version of it only the standard version, which is pretty weak actually since it's only slightly more capable than the 5.3L. Thenyou have to deal with the 4 sec closed loop power-inhibitor program that Edmunds discovered.

    The Tundra BTW comes Standard ( at no extra cost ) with 10000#+ Towing Capacity on all 5.7L engines. It was published yesterday. The Tundra now has it's foot on the Silvy's neck.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Dr.Fill, you told us all the Silverado, doesn't have the "work truck" capability's of the new Tundra. I've read on various sites that say the Silverado has the highest payload of any half-ton truck which I would think would be critical to a work truck wouldn't it ?????

    Actually the Ford does ... but you have to add the HD Payload Package in order to get it. With this package the F150 is far above any of the other 4- but only on 4 configurations.

    But if you are talking about standard hauling capacities...here are the figures for the 10 most common congifurations:
    ............Tundra .. Silvy .. F150 .. RAM
    2WD
    RC Std Bed - 1765 .. 1952 .. 1820 .. 1810 - Silvy
    RC LBed... - 2080 .. 1812 .. 2000 .. 1640 - Tundra

    EC Std Bed - 1755 .. 2160 .. 1890 .. 1570 - Silvy
    EC LBed... - 1655 .. 1687 .. N/A .. 1380 - Tundra/Silvy

    CC Sht Bed - 1680 .. 2039 .. 1780 .. 2438 - RAM

    4WD
    RC Std Bed - 1700 .. 1713 .. 1720 .. 1320 - 3 way tie
    RC LBed... - 2000 .. 1850 .. 1670 .. 1310 - Tundra

    EC Std Bed - 1655 .. 2013 .. 1740 .. 1330 - Silvy
    EC LBed... - 1555 .. 1574 .. N/A .. 1220 - Tundra/Silvy

    CC Sht Bed - 1590 .. 2010 .. 1630 .. 1980 - Silvy/Ram
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    "Less than a full size (aka height) bed..."

    Bed depth:

    Dodge Ram - 20.2"
    Chevy Silverado - 21.0"
    Toyota Tundra - 22.2"
    Ford F150 - 22.3"

    Draw your own conclusions.

    "...bottom of the heap in towing capacity..."

    Dodge Ram - 2900 lbs. std. / 8750 with tow package
    Ford F150 - maxed out at 9500 lbs. for ext. and crewcab models. Maxed out at 11000 lbs. for reg. cab.
    Chevy Silverado - Maxed out at 10500 for ext/crewcab 4x4 models.
    Toyota Tundra - maxed out at 10,800 lbs. for regular cab 4x2. Maxed at 10,600 for Dcab and 10,400 for Crewmax.

    Draw your own conclusions.

    Sounds to me like there might be some anti-Toyota Koolaid making the rounds.....
  • geo9geo9 Posts: 739
    Funny the towing cap. from Edmunds:
    All 1/2 ton reg. cab small v-8, auto 4wd specs.
    Silverado 8900 lbs.
    Ram 8800 "
    toyota 8200 "
    Ford 6800! "

    Funny.....toyota lists NO factory trailer hitch aval....
    according to Edmunds
  • Someday yota will catch up!

    Your obviously trolling for attention here. There is no one that doesn't know that the Silvy is now playing catch up with Toyota with their powertrain. You seriously can't have your head buried that far in the sand.

    Toyota may later than sooner innovate rather than imitate.

    You mean the way Honda did with the Ridgeline. Yep, you strike me as a person that appreciates innovation.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    You are looking at 2006 specs.. c'mon son get up to date.

    Go to Toyota's website and see the 2007 specs. It'll scare the daylights out of you.... ;). All your preconceived notions are shattered.
  • geo9geo9 Posts: 739
    Those figures ARE from Edmunds spec. lists for 07s !
    Easy to compare all 4 trucks from a "neutral" site.
    So no koolaid !

    But still NO factory trailer hitch (acc. to Edmunds)

    Are they still making the "honda pantyline"?
    I have seen reports that it is gonna be discontinued
    because of poor sales. The complaints on that "wondercar"
    here at Edmunds and ridglineownersclub are quite funny !
    The water leak posts alone are quite amusing. What about the
    failing strut issus? Are the body wrinkle posts still closed ?
    I LOVE the long term test reviews here at Edmunds tho.
    Heck, They only had 3 struts FAIL at 1 time........
    Talk about heads in the sand! :P

    GM had that idea from the get-go with the Avalanche!
    But they screwed up !...No in bed "trunk" !
    honda the innovators !
    honda thought it was good enough to TRY and copy.......
  • Those figures ARE from Edmunds spec. lists for 07s !
    Easy to compare all 4 trucks from a "neutral" site.
    So no koolaid !


    Son, the specs are clearly listed on Toyota's site. If they are different on Edmunds, Edmunds has made a mistake. Where do you think edmunds gets their numbers? Do you think they do independent testing or something? Get a clue.

    Are they still making the "honda pantyline"?
    I have seen reports that it is gonna be discontinued
    because of poor sales.


    Calling inanimate objects names is a sure sign of someone that doesn't have a case. Poor sales? Honda met sales projections last year. I'm not sure what your talking about. There is a V6 diesel coming in 09 for the Ridgeline.

    The complaints on that "wondercar"
    here at Edmunds and ridglineownersclub are quite funny !
    The water leak posts alone are quite amusing. It the
    body wrinkle still closed ?
    Talk about heads in the sand!


    More name calling. My, this truck must have you really irritated. The posts about the Avy's problems ar also very amusing here on Edmunds and elsewhere.

    GM had that idea from the get-go with the Avalanche!
    honda thought it was good enough to TRY and copy.......


    Bob Lutz, a GM VP and GM's auto ghuro said the Ridgeline had the best packaging of any vehicle he has ever seen. I'm assuming he's aware of the Avalanche. I'm also assuming he's infinitely more informed on the auto industry than you are.

    GM Vice President praises Honda Ridgeline

    At the North American International Auto Show in Detroit earlier this month, Bob Lutz, GM's vice chairman, brought a large contingent to inspect Ridgeline. He told Flint: It's the best ``packaging'' of any vehicle he has ever seen, meaning the best layout and use of space.

    Lutz praises competitors sparingly, especially those from abroad.


    There isn't a better multi purpose SUT on the market than the Ridgeline. Their are few that would disagree

    -Motor Trend truck of the year 2006
    -North American Truck of the year 2006
    -Detroit News truck of the year 2006
    -Consumer Reports top rated truck
    -JD Power & Associates 2005 APEAL award for the Honda Ridgeline
    -Autobytel 2006 Editors' Choice Award: Truck of the year 2006
    -Automobile Journalists Association of Canada (AJAC) Best New Pickup 2006
    -On Wheels Incorporated: Ridgeline 2006 Urban Wheel Award for the Urban Truck of the Year
    -Ridgeline wins Strategic Vision's coveted "Most Delightful" compact pickup award.
    -best rollover resistance rating of any pickup tested by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA)
    -first-ever 4-door pickup to earn a 5-star safety rating for both front and side impact crash test performance from the U.S. National Highway Transportation Safety Administration (NHTSA).
    -Society of Plastic Engineers 2005 Grand Award (composite inbed trunk)
    -Car And Driver Rates Honda Ridgeline #1 Pickup.
    - AutoWeek Editors' Choice Award as the 'Most Significant' new vehicle in the show
    -Maxim Truck Of The Year 2006
    -Autoweb.com top ten tailgater
    -2007 Automobile Magazine All Star award Top 10 cars for 2007

    Now back to the full size truck that has the best powertrain on the market: The 07 Tundra
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    "Funny the towing cap. from Edmunds:
    All 1/2 ton reg. cab small v-8, auto 4wd specs.
    Silverado 8900 lbs.
    Ram 8800 "
    toyota 8200 "
    Ford 6800! "


    The only number I'll quibble with there is the one for the Silverado. The number you've indicated (8900 lbs.) is for the 5.3l V8 version rather than the "small v-8" 4.8l version. Since all of the other numbers you indicated are for the sub-5.0l versions (4.7l V8 for the Dodge Ram, 4.7l V8 for the Toyota Tundra and 4.6l V8 for the F150), it would probably be fairer to compare against the Silverado equipped with the 4.8l V8.

    According to Chevy's Silverado website, the Silverado equipped similarly to the others will tow 7900 lbs not 8900 lbs.

    "Funny.....toyota lists NO factory trailer hitch aval....
    according to Edmunds."


    Well, according to Toyota's website, their V8 tow package includes the following:

    "Heavy-duty tow hitch receiver
    7-pin connector
    Trailer brake controller prewire
    Supplemental transmission cooler
    TOW/HAUL mode
    Automatic-transmission temperature gauge
    4.100 rear axle ratio
    (on 4.7L models) or 4.300
    rear axle ratio (on 5.7L models)"

    I'd still like to see you backup your earlier assertion that the Tundra has "bottom of the heap towing capacity".
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Thank you for your well-informed post. I think it would be wise not to feed the bear though. By making outlandish statements that don't hold water, he/she getting the attention that they want, and adding absolutely nothing beneficial to this thread except higher blood pressure. I've been sitting here watching this exchange, and whether you think people realize it or not, it is obvious that you are the level-headed side of the debate.

    I mean, c'mon, calling trucks names? It's comical at best, but managing to evaporate what credibility orignally existed before those statements.

    Thanks gearhead1,

    TheGrad
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    4 sec closed loop power-inhibitor program that Edmunds discovered.

    Can you explain to me what that is ???

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Now back to the full size truck that has the best powertrain on the market: The 07 Tundra

    I would think that would be the 6.2 V8 in the Denali.

    I often find it funny how some of you guys spin the thread to make lower models from GM compete against the top models from Toyota. I hope that makes y'all feel warm inside. ;)

    Kd, I'm not going to dispute your post. I don't have enough information to know how you can configure the new Silverado yet. I've also found that the Chevy website is kind of confusing when trying to configure the best truck for towing. I'll give another run at it in the near future to see how the 6.0 can obtain the 10500 tow rating.

    I know the new Silverado is a POS and the new Tundra is the greatest truck since slice bread when y'all do a comparo similar to the ones edmunds.com's staff has done.

    I do find it funny so many normally very biased anti-GM magazines, news papers, etc, picked the Silverado as their truck of the year and gave it good reviews. ;)

    I guess because the edmunds.com staff doing a apples to oranges comparo that was enough in y'alls minds to reinforce any doubt that Toyota, is the best at everything and GM's automobiles because of the 1980's are still crap.

    I know I'm going to the far extreme but that is essentially the make-up of some personality's on this forum based on past posts. geo9, isn't the only one that has put questionable stereotype labels with automobiles and I find it funny that he gets slammed by people that have done the same thing in the past with stereotypes. ;)

    I could go up and down the list and find dislikes with the Tundra, and explain why it's not the best pick-up. What would I accomplish ????

    Y'all are going to buy it not because you need the extra powertrain but because it wears the Toyota badge and thats enough reason to make the purchase even though you will pay more, get less of a warranty, and get less features and refinement.

    I will go out on a limb and say this fall we will likely see some powertrain adjustments from GM, to meet or exceed Toyota. I suppose then y'all would still find other faults with the Silverado, because no matter what GM, does it won't be good enough let alone be as good as the Tundra. This is very typical of not only the trucks we are talking about but GM vs. Toyota in general. I can't change y'alls perception and I'm not trying to change y'alls minds on what you should like. I just think the Silverado, finally deserves a little respect and not be trashed. I've said the new Tundra, is a very nice worthy full-size truck but it being the best is subject to the individuals. I have a feeling the majority of people that buy the Silverado, over the Tundra won't be disappointed about it's disadvantages which is some cases are advantages. :shades:

    Rocky
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Actually you can configure the Silverado for a 10500# towing capacity with the Max Trailering Package but only the 2006 Heritage model... the T800's.

    When they went to the new T900's this was dropped.

    I'm guessing, only a guess, that since the T900's are new and just launching since Sept that they haven't opened all the options up as yet. They may not be building many 6.0L Silvy's as yet for a couple of reasons..
    a) they are just ramping up production so the 5.3L gets all the production time;
    b) there is little demand for the 6.0L in a half ton pickup. As you originally noted if someone is going to do very heavy work then it's the DuraMax which is probably GM's best - and most profitable - drivetrain. GM may be discouraging buyers from ordering the 6.0L in favor of stepping up to the DuraMax 2500. Better truck / more profits.

    As an indication there are ZERO 6.0L V8's on our Chevy lot. The bulk are the 5.3L & 4.8L and the DuraMax diesels.

    Toyota is doing the same with the 4.0L V6's in the Tundra. It's much better to go to a V8 ( 4.7 or 5.7 ) than to order the V6. So they price it very high in relation to the V8's.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Well perhaps this fall GM, will up the horsepower rating on the 6.0 to 385 so they can claim they have the highest output of the trucks ? I think it's critical to their marketing to out power the competition like they have for years. The VortecMax engine (6.2) with 400+ hp will be here this fall. I don't know if that will be a Chevy Silverado SS model or not ? We will see..... :)

    Rocky
  • Thank you for your well-informed post. I think it would be wise not to feed the bear though.

    You are of course correct, but his pitches are so slow and right over the plate, it's hard to resist not knocking them out of the park.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    I still would have doubts. The 10K trailer probably is more like 5K

    The fully loaded payload is probably brick painted cardboard boxes....grin :blush:

    The acceleration tests probably are done with a engine swap of GM's 6.0 V8 with Toyota emblems :D

    I couldn't resist..... :P

    Rocky
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    As they would gladly use Toyota engines in their cars, like they have done many times, past (Cavalier in Japan, Geo Prism), and present (Vibe GT).

    Pretty sure Toyota would give a raspberry to a domestic swap. Overhead valves and pushrods are like Beta tapes to 'Yota. :P

    DrFill
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I think it's critical to their marketing to out power the competition like they have for years.

    Huh? Are we talking half-tons? Sivlerado had a 5.3L with 310hp right? Last I checked, the Dodge has had this beat for awhile now with a 5.7L 345 hp. Am I forgetting something?
  • I would think that would be the 6.2 V8 in the Denali.

    Okay, this is a future engine not even listed on the GMC web site for the Denali. Even with the lessor Denali engine which is quite "lessor" to say the least, the Denali starts at over $40,000. At this price point you could get a 4x4 Tundra Crew Max 5.7, 6 speed, Limited. The Denali is a very small part of the truck market for GM. Just to stick to the point of this thread, we're talking about the Silverado not the luxury Denali. The Silvy is GM's most popular mass production half ton not some obscure luxury truck that hardly anybody buys. That is why the 6.2 isn't seriously discussed in debates like this. Grasping at the 6.2 saying it beats the 5.7 is kind of well ....desperate. The more interesting question is will they move the 6.2 to the Silvy as an option and how much will it cost, and what are the likely reliability issues.

    I often find it funny how some of you guys spin the thread to make lower models from GM compete against the top models from Toyota. I hope that makes y'all feel warm inside.

    GM has vastly improved the Silvy from the last generation. Just looking at the exterior it seems to exude a better feeling of quality over the last generation, but the top silvy still can't compete with the top Tundra in the powertrain department. As for the interiors, I'll leave that discussion for all the women interior decorators that seem to frequent these truck discussions. The only warm feeling I get inside is when I'm right. I've been feeling quite warm lately.

    I don't doubt that GM will catch up to the current Tundra, but more than likely Toyota will have something better in the works. I've heard from people supposedly in the know that the 5.7 can be tuned comfortably above 400hp and won't actually blow until approaching 500hp. We'll see what Toyota has in store. What's surprising is that toyota so comfortably trumped the recently released silvy (which is a pretty good truck) with their first true attempt at a full size truck.


    Y'all are going to buy it not because you need the extra powertrain but because it wears the Toyota badge and thats enough reason to make the purchase even though you will pay more, get less of a warranty, and get less features and refinement.

    Isn't the Toyota badge enough especially when I've owned a Toy truck for 15+ years and it still runs like new. I might add that one main point people talk about in these discussions is how brand loyal domestic truck buyers are and that they won't give the new Tundra a chance simply because it's asian. Talk about buying a vehicle just because of the badge, domestic truck buyers are the epitome of that statement. Detroit is counting on a segment of the market called "import avoiders". These people are out there and won't buy a vehicle simply because it has a Toyota badge. There is alot of anti Honda/Toyota sentiment on the web, and I notice the same vitriolic comments aren't directed toward euro brands ie. BMW, Mercedez etc. I think it boils down for some reason to an anti asian bias or the "R" word. Some people are very reluctant to recognize the quality of asian products siting customers as sheep, press bias etc. Any reason other than the Japanese make a superior product.

    One point I'll grant you is that Toyota should step up their warranty if not to compete with GM, then to compete with Hyundai which is the greater threat to both Toyota and Honda. Hyundai has made great strides in quality over the last few years and is very focused on competing with Toyota. Toyota has grown, some say to fast which has elicted some quality issues which I believe will be quickly corrected simply because it's their way. It's what they do. If Toyota doesn't think that the words quality/reliability are their bread and butter then they deserve their fate. One thing I am fairly certain of is that they crossed their T's and dotted their i's with this new truck. They can't afford to have issues. This truck must make a impression and must say quality and reliability. Toyota is already introducing this truck with killer financing rates. They've come to play and play hard. They want as many of these trucks on the road as quickly as possible proving themselves. That factory is going to be churning out trucks like crazy to meet that 200K goal.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Am I forgetting something?

    Yep !!!! I'm talking about the whole company and not just a specific segment.....but FYI that same dodge was met with a 345 hp. 6.0 GMC Sierra Denali. ;) Now dodge is at the back of the pack when it comes to muscle presently. That goes for the whole car company of Chrysler corp. but it's not as bad as Fords current line-up ;)

    Rocky
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Now dodge is at the back of the pack when it comes to muscle presently. That goes for the whole car company of Chrysler corp.

    Guess you forget the Titan and F-150 then?

    ...Sierra Denali with 6.0L 345 hp...

    Was this offered in any other half-tons other than the $45k Caddy of pickups? Anything that might remotely be used for more work than lux? It is such a narrow model, I'd not heard of anything like it since the Sierra C3.
  • ggesqggesq Posts: 701
    "I think it's critical to their marketing to out power the competition like they have for years."

    rock- have you ever heard of the SVT F150 Lightning or Dodgre Ram R/T? Both trucks both come with more standard hp than the Silvy SS.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Dude, your kidding me ?????

    Okay, this is a future engine not even listed on the GMC web site for the Denali.

    I guess 1-month is way off into the future ??? :confuse:

    Even with the lessor Denali engine which is quite "lessor" to say the least, the Denali starts at over $40,000. At this price point you could get a 4x4 Tundra Crew Max 5.7, 6 speed, Limited. The Denali is a very small part of the truck market for GM.

    The Denali line accounted for 30% of GMC's sales and is projected to rise significantly according to a spokesmouth from GMC marketing team. ;)

    Just to stick to the point of this thread, we're talking about the Silverado not the luxury Denali. The Silvy is GM's most popular mass production half ton not some obscure luxury truck that hardly anybody buys.

    Okay fair enough. I'd like to see 2 like vehicals being compared instead of grabbing straws from Edmunds review which btw is the only car testing company that has the Tundra, ranked over the Silverado. I guess it wouldn't be a first time for them. FYI-GMC, isn't a luxury brand, thus the Denali isn't a luxury truck. The Escalade EXT is the luxury truck with the ultra comfy ride.

    That is why the 6.2 isn't seriously discussed in debates like this. Grasping at the 6.2 saying it beats the 5.7 is kind of well ....desperate. The more interesting question is will they move the 6.2 to the Silvy as an option and how much will it cost, and what are the likely reliability issues.

    The 6.2 will make it to the Silverado, probably as a SS. Rumor's I've read are saying 500+ hp. It could also be a option called the VortecMax for other Silvy models with 400 hp. Look to see it available this fall for 08'. ;) So far, so good for the 6.2. It's been in the Slade since last spring. Has the new 5.7 Tundra V8 been proven ????? What are it's reliability issues ???? :confuse:

    GM has vastly improved the Silvy from the last generation. Just looking at the exterior it seems to exude a better feeling of quality over the last generation, but the top silvy still can't compete with the top Tundra in the powertrain department. As for the interiors, I'll leave that discussion for all the women interior decorators that seem to frequent these truck discussions. The only warm feeling I get inside is when I'm right. I've been feeling quite warm lately.

    I will say it again their's more to a truck than just it's powertrain. the 5.3 is a proven high mileage, ultra reliable engine. If I was driving the 5.7 I'd be concerned with sludge issues and such since that is making news. ;)

    I don't doubt that GM will catch up to the current Tundra

    You can't be serious.....One (1) good apples to oranges review and now GM, has to play catch up ????? Ummmmmm you've lost all credibility from me.

    but more than likely Toyota will have something better in the works. I've heard from people supposedly in the know that the 5.7 can be tuned comfortably above 400hp and won't actually blow until approaching 500hp. We'll see what Toyota has in store. What's surprising is that toyota so comfortably trumped the recently released silvy (which is a pretty good truck) with their first true attempt at a full size truck.

    That Toyota, Kool-Aid must be tasting great. Again 1 good review using a Tundra Limited vs. a stripped down Silverado, by a biased edmunds Toyota, kool-aid drinking staff is the only trump card you need while several other credible sites picked the Silverado over the Tundra ? hmmmmmm...maybe that's because they test similar vehicals when conducting truck tests ????? No that wouldn't be it :D
    BTW-The last generation was their first attempt at a full-size truck and it's not GM's fault they fumbled the oppertunity. ;)

    Isn't the Toyota badge enough especially when I've owned a Toy truck for 15+ years and it still runs like new. I might add that one main point people talk about in these discussions is how brand loyal domestic truck buyers are and they won't give the new Tundra a chance simply because it's asian. Talk about buying a vehicle just because of the badge, domestic truck buyers are the epitome of that statement. Detroit is counting on a segment of the market called "import avoiders". These people are out there and won't buy a vehicle simply because it has a Toyota badge. There is alot of anti Honda/Toyota sentiment on the web, and I notice the same vitriolic comments aren't directed toward euro brands ie. BMW, Mercedez etc. I think it boils down for some reason to an anti asian bias or the "R" word. Some people are very reluctant to recognize the quality of asian products siting customers as sheep, press bias etc. Any reason other than the Japanese make a superior product.

    Most domestic truck buyers are patriotic, blue-collar, working middle class, americans. They don't want some foreign company and country to buy-off what their family died for. They feel the same about our products as the Japanese do about there's. How many Japanese people do you see go buy american or other country's products. They are nationalist. This is Japans, first real attempt to capture sales in a brand loyal crowd. They will sell everyone they make but it won't be easy sales and here in Truck country (Texas) I don't see many Japanese trucks on the road. They are very rare !!!! Some of my co-workers and friends were so disaapointed with trying out Toyota's last generation they said they still won't consider the new one. My buddy Cody, bought a 06' and he's so dissapointed with it after 4,000 miles he's ready to get rid of it. He's been asking me about the Denali and Escalade EXT already. I was like dude I tried to tell you. He says yeah, I should of listened. I asked him if he was going to get a 07' ???? He goes hell no !!!! I should of kept my Lariat Ford :D

    You also need to remember gearhead1, the Euro's don't come over to the U.S. and try to americanize themselves in our culture and I think many americans respect that. I know I do. ;)

    Con't below............
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    One point I'll grant you is that Toyota should step up their warranty if not to compete with GM, then to compete with Hyundai which is the greater threat to both Toyota and Honda. Hyundai has made great strides in quality over the last few years and is very focused on competing with Toyota. Toyota has grown, some say to fast which has elicted some quality issues which I believe will be quickly corrected simply because it's their way. It's what they do. If Toyota doesn't think that the words quality/reliability are their bread and butter then they deserve their fate. One thing I am fairly certain of is that they crossed their T's and dotted their i's with this new truck. They can't afford to have issues. This truck must make a impression and must say quality and reliability. Toyota is already introducing this truck with killer financing rates. They've come to play and play hard. They want as many of these trucks on the road as quickly as possible proving themselves. That factory is going to be churning out trucks like crazy to meet that 200K goal.

    Well with what 3 straight years of having quality issues their track record hasn't been great as of late. They've been accused of hiding recalls for 8 years giving a false perception of flawlessness. I personally am rooting against them. I will always root for the home team. Our government has done way to much to help foreign company's invest here while doing nothing for struggling domestic manufactoring that want to stay here and provide good jobs. I don't see the same helping hand offered by the Japanese government to our manufactor's with trade barriers and I don't see Japanese tax dollars subsidizing U.S. corporations seeking a foot in the Japanese culture do you ????? This just isn't in the automobile industry either. Regardless, the Tundra is a good truck and I respect it. However your justifications for making it the best is based on 1 review. I think I've done enough to dispute that so I will leave it alone

    Have a good one ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    2007 GMC Sierra Denali

    The King of 1/2-Ton Pick-ups :shades:

    http://www.sportruck.com/news/2007-GMC-Sierra-Denali/index.htm

    This should satisfy you........ ;)

    Rocky
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    you've lost all credibility from me. - to gearhead1

    Then why the massive response?
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Ford Lighting is no longer made but was easily whipped by the 6-speed manual 400 hp. SSR. The fastest lighting I ever saw ran 0-60 in 5.3 seconds. That was very fast back in the day. I will also dig up the past also with the 91' GMC Syclone that would out run the current and famous R/T. To put it simpily the GMC Syclone is the fastest truck ever made 0-60 in 4.4-4.6 and Quarter mile in the high 12's and was actually faster than that when a rainy mist was present which cooled the Syclones intercooled turbocharger. :shades:

    I expect based on past readings a SS Silverado with 500-600 hp. will be out maybe this fall ???? It shout out run the Ram R/T ;)

    Rocky
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