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Toyota Tundra vs. Chevrolet Silverado

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Comments

  • vmax2007vmax2007 Posts: 46
    Let me start by saying..I didn't need to drive the Tundra, it would have been a waste of my time. It could have ridden better than a brand new Cadillac and it would not have made a difference. The GMC simply outclasses the Tundra in every way, and the power is equivalent (no matter the 300 or so extra towing capacity in the over-inflated towing ratings). The GMC rides like a dream so I seriously doubt the Tundra can even match it in that area. But, I am sure you'll tell me it does, even though you probably have never driven a new GM either (Double standard?).

    You are free to question my opinion all you want, have at it. I don't care, it's a free country. You seem to think I am arguing my opinion. I am not, I am only arguing the fact that you attack my opinions, yet your opinions seem to mean more than mine?

    If you want to base your opinions on magazine ads and comparos, have at it. I put NO merit to any kind of media hype. It is all biased in some way anyway. And I mean this across the board, not just on Toyota's. That is why I also debunked the so-called Motor Trend TOTY award. It had no bearing on my decision. Never has, never will, no matter who wins it.

    Bottom line...IMO, the GM is a classier, better built truck with all of the capability of the Tundra. Go ahead, attack me now, I am ready for it and am getting used to it. But no matter what you say, my opinion will remain the same.
  • murphydogmurphydog Posts: 491
    Clearly the difference is owner loyalty. GM and Ford have it is spades and Toyota does not for full sized trucks. This is going to be the big challenge for Toyota, or anybody else who would like to take share from Ford or GM.

    Post 1765 is classic owner loyalty, and no Vmax I am not trying to pick on you here. You illustrate how loyalty works.

    Pretty amazing how strong it is with truck buyers My grandfather was exactly the same with Fords. Always had a full size Ford as he is a contractor. Tried a late 80's ranger as he finally started to work less and it was a disaster. Went to a Nissan Hardbody and loved it right up till it was wrecked...but guess what he took the insurance money right back to Ford.

    HP, load, towing, 5 bolts, 6 bolts, 4 speed, 6 speed blah blah blah it won't matter until owner loyalty is high and then you can grow from 125,000 units to a bigger number.

    I do think that everybody who buys or is thinking of buying a full sized trucked is better served by fierce competition out there.
  • vmax2007vmax2007 Posts: 46
    Murphy,

    No offense taken, you are correct. I am a loyal GM guy. But my loyalty is based on personal experience from my 24 yrs of driving experience. It is not "family based" or anything like that. If I would have had bad experiences from GM, like I did with the one-and-only Chrysler product I have owned (my wife's 93 Plymouth Voyager minivan...POS). I would not be here today defending the General. But until that day comes, and I hope it never does, I will be a GM loyalist. No reason not to be.

    PS: I do appeciate the Tundra coming out swinging because I do agree that fierce competition makes every brand better and we all benefit from it. The question is how much "punch" is in Toyota's fists over the long haul. To date, in the truck segment, they are KO'd in the early rounds. Ding...Ding...
  • vmax2007vmax2007 Posts: 46
    Let's see a Half ton Chevy do that.

    You can, in the Sierra Denali today, and soon in all of the 1/2 tons. Only reason they don't all have them today is because GM makes over a million 1/2 tons per year, not 150K. It takes time to ramp up production at those numbers. So, enjoy you so-called exclusive 6-spd while you can, it will be short-lived.
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    I know where my foot is, and it ain't in my mouth. :)

    As you alluded, two totally different arguments. Comparing Toyota to Audi is like comparing Spud Webb to Michael Jordan!

    Toyota has taken over Hybrid Sales, Luxury Car Sales, Compact Pick Up Sales, Economy Car Sales, and Family Car Sales. Their next target is the hardest to reach, the K2 if you will.

    Toyota has nothing to prove. If they want a segment, they can take it over. It's not if, it's when.

    Audi has no one running scared. Maybe running bored? :surprise:

    When you reconcile Audi's US history with Toyota's, and can come up with successful business plan, please get back to me.

    Have your people get in touch with my people. ;)

    DrFill

    So when you reconcile that, get back to me.
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    ..I didn't need to drive the Tundra, it would have been a waste of my time. It could have ridden better than a brand new Cadillac and it would not have made a difference. The GMC simply outclasses the Tundra in every way, and the power is equivalent (no matter the 300 or so extra towing capacity in the over-inflated towing ratings). The GMC rides like a dream so I seriously doubt the Tundra can even match it in that area.

    That's all I was sayin' from the jump.

    You know you didn't give the Tundra a chance. I know you didn't give the Tundra a chance. Reviewing it now is a joke. Less than an afterthought. If you were gonna be fair with the truck, you would've done it by at least driving the truck. NOW I'm supposed to take your "opinion" seriously?

    Seriously......the defense rests. (Thank G--!) :sick:

    DrFill
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    The great thing about Toyota is they win plenty of comparisons, especially here at Edmunds and CR, and at the end of the day, it doesn't even really matter.

    Toyota wins the most important test of all, word of mouth.

    Tundra isn't a major player now.

    As I watch "Deep Impact", it's kinda like that meteor the size of Rhode Island, it's off in the distance, but it's coming, won't stop, and will do serious damage!

    Each of the Big 3 are asking themselves: How much damage can it do?

    IMO, enough so that they don't even have to take over sales to cripple any, or all, of the domestics.

    Toyota will take all the time, spend all the cash they need to get where they're going.

    Does anyone doubt they will reach their destination?

    Tundra doesn't have to sell 700-900k to be a grand slam success.

    DrFill
  • You can, in the Sierra Denali today, and soon in all of the 1/2 tons. Only reason they don't all have them today is because GM makes over a million 1/2 tons per year, not 150K. It takes time to ramp up production at those numbers. So, enjoy you so-called exclusive 6-spd while you can, it will be short-lived.

    Why didn't they do it from the start? Toyota puts their best foot forward so then the rest of them decide clean up their act? Who is leading and who is following? The big three have not produced a decent truck since GM's 1972 models.
  • Does anyone doubt they will reach their destination?

    Well said.

    Put your ear to the ground because the Tundras are coming.
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    I can get a 5.7 Tundra RC for around $25k.

    Why do I have to spend close to $40k for a Denali to get a competitive drivetrain?

    You can't even get a 6.0 in the RC Silvy! And the 5.7 smacks it silly! :surprise:

    DrFill
  • vmax2007vmax2007 Posts: 46
    Doc, Doc, Doc...

    When are you going to get it through your thick skull...I don't give a hoot if you take my opinion seriously or not. You are simply text on a computer, not even human to me. Get it?

    I didn't give the Tundra a chance, you're right. And in hindsight, I am glad I didn't waste my time. However, I did read about it and looked at pics and that was enough for me. Why would I buy or even consider buying a truck that I think is ugly? For 26 more hp?
    Nuff said.
  • vmax2007vmax2007 Posts: 46
    Toyota has nothing to prove. If they want a segment, they can take it over. It's not if, it's when.

    So, they must not want to then? Just like they must not have wanted to with the T-100 or the first Tundra either then? Maybe 3rd times a charm? I wouldn't bet on it.
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Posts: 1,150
    Re: "Financial Advice"

    I merely wanted to point out that there are the minimal differences between these 1/2 ton trucks if used as 1/2 ton trucks are typically used. The initial cost difference (4K) is huge and if invested in a low cost bond or equity fund would double over the life of the truck. To really make my point I should have mentioned that for most people the 4K initial difference is really 6K because you have to have 6K on your W2 to net 4K.
  • vmax2007vmax2007 Posts: 46
    Toyota wins the most important test of all, word of mouth.

    Huh? Maybe your mouth.

    Tundra isn't a major player now.

    And never will be, not in America.

    As I watch "Deep Impact", it's kinda like that meteor the size of Rhode Island, it's off in the distance, but it's coming, won't stop, and will do serious damage!

    Only good comparison between the tundra and a meteor is the fact that both will crash down to earth in a big ball of flames.

    enough so that they don't even have to take over sales to cripple any, or all, of the domestics.

    This is just confusing me? Huh?

    Does anyone doubt they will reach their destination?

    Me.

    Tundra doesn't have to sell 700-900k to be a grand slam success.

    Depends on their goals. But if they want to surpass the big 3, they will have to.
  • I wouldn't bet on it.

    It's obvious you make poor choices when it comes to betting. Hang in their and do not give up hope. You can drive a vmax to water but you just can not make them drink. Why do you like to type the word "opinion" so much?

    My Tundra screams with sexy curves and beastly power. It makes me want to just drive around and spank all the Silverados, F's, and Rams I see. Too much fun!
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Posts: 1,150
    Thanks for illustrating that except for the owner's personal duded-up ride, most work trucks are 3/4 ton, standard cab, solid front axle F350s and Dodge Ram 2500's. I live in New England and can count on the fingers of one hand how many 1/2 pickups or even Chev 2500HD pickups I've seen with plow frames.

    Sure the Toyota ads are misleading. So aren't most ads, including yours (probably) in the Chicago Tribune claiming "all calls returned" or "The Best Bobcat Service in the Windy City"!
  • vmax2007vmax2007 Posts: 46
    Why didn't they do it from the start? Toyota puts their best foot forward so then the rest of them decide clean up their act? Who is leading and who is following? The big three have not produced a decent truck since GM's 1972 models.

    What part of "Ramping up" didn't you understand? If toyota were selling 1+ million Tundras this year, they wouldn't have half the stuff they have. GM will sell just as many 1/2 ton trucks with 6 spds than Toyota will this year. Get it? And next year, they will sell twice as many. GM is leading, they just need more time to ramp up to a new platform due to nearly 10x the volume of Tundras. BTW, the HD 4 spd in my truck is just fine, VERY smooth and proven, WITH ext cooling. I'd take my 4 spd tranny over that unproven Toyota 6 spd any day.
  • 1offroader1offroader Posts: 208
    Been gone a few days, just caught up with the front crash test results. That has got to be incredibly disappointing to Toyota Co. and Tundra owners.

    I went to a web page that explained the ratings. 5 stars means 10% or less chance of serious injury. 4 stars means 11%-20% chance of serious injury. So, let's say that the Silverado was 10% and the Tundra was 20% (the highest for each vehicle). The Tundra has TWICE the chance of serious injury for its driver and front passenger.

    BTW, the Dodge and Ford were also 5 stars. Toyota has some serious soul-searching and re-design to do. Also, where is that vaunted Toyota concern for the safety of its owners??? Didn't they test it before releasing it to the market? Anyone can reproduce the NHTSA test procedure. Doesn't look like brain surgery to do that test - crashing into a fixed barrier at 35 mph.

    Toyota at least should offer an OnStar-type system, since the owner is twice as likely to suffer a serious injury. I'm still betting they will offer one, and soon, to make up for this blow to their marketing. They are going to lose sales over that. Heads will roll in Texas.

    That said, a previous post explaining that modern vehicles are FAR safer than those of just a few years ago was spot-on. I rather be in a serious wreck in a Tundra than 90% of other vehicles out there.

    1offroader
  • vmax2007vmax2007 Posts: 46
    Offroader,

    This is understandable since Toyota had it's hands full engineering a brand new pick-up and cannot be expected to have the time and money to address every engineering aspect right out of the gate. Unfortunately, they chose to focus on the engine and tranny to trump the competition by a few more hp and a 6 spd tranny. They knew this was an important spec. due to the high number of "motorheads" who buy these things. But the rest of their truck suffered in return. Inferior frame design, poor fit-n-finish quality, less configs...etc, etc. Oh, and "more" "standard" airbags sounds great in brochures, but front crash test results don't get put in brochures. Bottom line... if you want the best all-around truck, go with one that has been under constant development for years and years. Toyota will take years to get to where GM is in both quality and market share. IF they even survive this segment in America. So far, they are 0 for 2.
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    Great way to dance around the point, as you have an amazing talent to do so.

    Again, the question to you was do you think that Tundra should be obsolete because it won't come near the Big 3's truck sales? Please explain how this applies to an entire carmaker, but not one model of vehicle. Reach far and long, as I know there is something in the trick bag for you to use.

    And this time, please restrain with the theatrics.

    BTW: So now the auto mags are "not important"? Gee, will you make up your mind. Oops, I forgot, you'll say vice-versa on other boards.
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    If you want the best all-around truck, drive them all, then make an educated decision. Some are better at that than others.

    You know what happens when you assume? :surprise:

    You also start losing market share.

    Check with Vmax for details on these facts, and much more! ;)

    DrFill
  • vmax2007vmax2007 Posts: 46
    The Doc is a salesman, it's his job to dance.
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    Well said.

    Oddly enough, Toyota is applying the same principle that GM used decades ago by offering a stout powertrain, with the rest of the vehicle paying the price. Whether it was body intergrity, poor interior quality, or overall sloppy workmanship, they just did not stand out.

    Fast forward to '07, and with Toyota not coy on talking about overtaking GM, it is happening to them. GM has the best quality record for the company in 35 years, while Toyota's is down 16% over the past 5 years. Millions of cars sold, 16% is no small number.

    You just can't get that big, that fast, without letting quality slip, and Toyota seems to not care But to each his own. As long as there are people there to buy Toyota just because that what it is, then I see no reason why Toyota can't complete their goal.
  • vmax2007vmax2007 Posts: 46
    You know what happens when you assume?

    And you are "assuming" I didn't educate myself just because I didn't drive an ugly Tundra.

    Bad assumption dude. I know more about the GMs than 90% of the GM salesmen out there. Enough to know it was the truck I wanted. Does that mean I think it's the truck everyone wants? Nope, didn't say that, so don't put words in my mouth please. YOU need to understand that the Tundra is NOT a take-over-the-world, God-of-all-trucks truck. But it's your JOB to try to convince everyone of that, isn't it?
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    You're like George Foreman, trying to hit Ali on the ropes. Do you have me, or do I have you, right where I want you.

    As I said before, Toyota doesn't have a hard time winning comparisons, here and elsewhere.

    As you just admitted, Audi cannot compete with Toyota.

    You seem to believe the word obsolete is my catchphrase or something. Audi, and the A8, aren't obsolete. They are non-factors. Clutter. Ornamentation. One step ahead of the Repo-Man!

    Toyota, and the Tundra, are major factors. Check the press, the specs, the AMCI test, check the e-mails, ads, sweat from the Big 3.

    Hard to ignore a better truck, eh? :blush:

    Toyota feels like making the best half-ton. Toyota's ads are correct. It is the Truck that changes Everything!

    The writing is on the wall.

    Question is: Can you read? :confuse:

    DrFill
  • vmax2007vmax2007 Posts: 46
    typical salesman speak here....huh?

    may I ask again, since you didn't answer me before...

    What do you drive? (not sell, drive). And how did you base your buying decision? Personal experience or job experience? If you weren't a salesman, would you be here posting?

    Answer honestly please, or is that impossible for a salesman to do?
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    But making sure not to drive the top truck? I practice what I preach.

    Why test drive the GM either? Just read about it, buy what someone tells you to buy, have it delivered to your door. Hope you like it for the next 5 years!

    I dated my wife before I married here. Dated other girls too.

    It's called playing the field. Or learning.

    Helps make sound decisions. Not guesswork. There is a difference. Try it sometime! ;)

    DrFill
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    And a Tacoma.

    Want fun in a truck, and a car.

    Test drove 2 or 3 competitors of each, then tested 2 or 3 dealers of the intended.

    I don't just buy the first thing thrown in front of me. I test drive cars, and dealers. Earn my business.

    Not a car salesman, either. Little too honest. ;)

    DrFill
  • vmax2007vmax2007 Posts: 46
    Yeah, but would you date an ugly girl to see if she was the one you wanted to marry? I have been "playing" the field for 24 yrs (since i was able to drive), and my Mrs right has been GM the entire time.
This discussion has been closed.