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Toyota Tundra vs. Chevrolet Silverado

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Comments

  • jreaganjreagan Posts: 285
    I never said hp/torque does not equal strength, I said there is MORE to it than that. Stop twisting my words please.
  • beliasbelias Posts: 316
    Because it isn't based on reliable data that's why. You don't constitute a sample size and you aren't able to even show any statistically significant data showing that your reliability is better than the Tundra. You have no numbers to show, you have no data to show except for just your subjective claim. You are a current new-model owner so you are obviously biased anyway, and you are unable to prove that those with Tundra's have less reliability based on ANYTHING. So please... at least take remedial statistics before you make claims that you can't back up and aren't willing to support.
  • jreaganjreagan Posts: 285
    There you go, twisting my words again. Did I say Tundras were less reliable? Show me where please, post #?? I simply stated that based on my 18 yrs of experience driving GMCs, I beleive they are VERY reliable. Did I get lucky? Maybe, but until I experience otherwise, GM's are my choice. It has nothing to do with the fact I just bought one. It is not my first one, it is my 3rd one in the last 18 yrs.

    Reliable data? Show me where any stupid-a$$ magazines' data is scientific or "reliable"?
    Also, consider this. Most people that have good experiences go unnoticed because they are content. People with bad experiences are PO'd and voice their opinions. So, of course you are going to hear more about the bad experiences than the good ones.
    If GM's reliability is so poor, why do they still hold such a huge loyalty?
  • jreaganjreagan Posts: 285
    Do I think the Toyota Tundra is a good truck? Yes, I do.

    Do I think it is better than the GMs? NO, I don't.

    Do I think the Tundra is a reliable truck? No idea, it is brand new. But based on Toyota's reputation, it should be. Keyword: Should

    Do I think the GM is a reliable truck? I have NO reason to think otherwise.

    Period!!!
  • beliasbelias Posts: 316
    Post 1186 where you say "But what about long-term reliability and customer satisfaction? And don't tell me that their car market or the previous Tundras speak for that. They are completely different vehicles. This is a new segment for Toyota, so there is no doubt they will have a learning curve to get through. Sure, Toyota is a good automotive mfr, but they are NOT immune to all of the challenges required to get a truck to the point that GM, Ford (and even Dodge) are at in overall truck quality. Sure, they are powerful and fast, but there is way more to a truck than that.
    Oh, and BTW...Does Tundra offer such ammenities such as Rain Sense Wipers and Heated washer fluid? Just curious."
    You make the claim right there...and for the record CR takes good and bad responses.
  • beliasbelias Posts: 316
    Fair enough.. I have to go, but don't take these things personally -- we're not criticiaing YOUR truck... we're looking at the whole picture! Baby is crying... gotta go...
  • jreaganjreagan Posts: 285
    Where in that post did I say that Toyota's were less reliable? I don't see it. I was questioning it, yes. But did I say it? You cannot crown anyone or anything King until they prove it, and since the Tundra is new to the segment, therefore, they must prove it.
  • 1offroader1offroader Posts: 208
    jreagan and belias,

    Re: DOHC vs. cam-in-block, Chevy has done A LOT of racing and has built SOHC and DOHC engines for the racing circuit. Their engineers have found that overall internal friction losses are LESS with the pushrod design, and the long term reliability of the timing belt/chain has always been an issue with the DOHC design, no matter who makes it. One of the reasons is that with most modern engines, when the timing chain/belt breaks the valves that are in the open position STAY open when the piston comes up either on the exhaust or compression stroke. The open valves then punch holes in the tops of the pistons and/or the valves get bent, ruining the entire top and bottom end of the motor. This isn't a problem if the belt never breaks, but requires a lot more attention to changing it regularly. Those are two reasons why the engineers feel the pushrod design is better for MOST applications. For extremely high-revving motors the DOHC has some advantages. Until now, the variable valve timing has also been the domain of the DOHC, but Chevy has now licked that technical hurdle and makes a VVT work with pushrods.

    Even in Chevy's top end motor, the big block Z06 (500+ hp), it is a pushrod design. Obviously, cost is not an issue with this world-class performance car, at least in terms of the minor cost difference between the two designs. If Chevy thought it was superior they would use it in the Z06 at least.

    As to the superiority of 6 bolt mains vs. 4 bolt, and 4 bolt vs. 2 bolt, well it's barely worth commenting on but I will anyway. All hi perf v-8s have at least 4 bolts, and only racing motors, until now, have had 6 (4 bolts + 2 cross bolts). The more, the better. Chevy has learned a lot from its many decades of racing experience. (BTW, I don't have the foggiest what the Tundra v-8 has: 2, 4, or 6, so can't comment on that issue.)

    6 bolts are even better than 4 because it ties the opposite sides of the block together into a single rigid unit. It's much stiffer than even the 4 bolt design. To do this, the sides of the block ("skirts") must extend way down past the main bearing caps. On 'typical' v-8 engines, if you remove the sheet metal oil pan you can see part of the crank extending below the bottom edge of the block. With a deep skirt design, the oil pan is very shallow or maybe just a flat plate. When it is removed, you have to look up into the block to see the crank.

    Deep skirts were once the unique domain of hi-perf racing engines but Chevy has chosen to incorporate this design feature on some of its hi-end engines despite its add'l. cost and complexity. They wouldn't add this design feature and NOT use DOHC if they thought it was warranted.

    BTW, I've built hi-perf v-8s with 2 bolt mains - it can be done. But it was always an issue of limited budget, not what's best. If you've ever dropped a crank out the bottom of your car, you'll understand the advantage. :sick: It's not an experience I would recommend.

    1offroader
  • jreaganjreagan Posts: 285
    Thanks for the additional info offroader. However, don't some DOHC engines provide valve clearance so if a timing belt/chain breaks, it does not ruin the valves/pistons? How/why is this related to Pushrod vs DOHC? Just curious.
  • pmuscepmusce Posts: 132
    belias,

    Did I say the Tundra was too big? No. I was just stating that the greater rear leg room comes at a cost of 6 more inches in length and smaller pickup bed of 3 inches.

    As for the deeper bed, the f-series also has a deeper bed like the Tundra. This is because the sides are higher on both these trucks. Sorry, but this is not an advantage, expecially for contractors who load and unload gear from the side of the truck. Its a common complaint of the f-series. There is no benefit to higher sides.
  • pmuscepmusce Posts: 132
    Your missing something in your formula:

    Add 6 inches of cab room
    Take 3 inches out of the bed
    Add 6 inches to the length

    It took 9 inches to add 6 to the cab.
  • 1offroader1offroader Posts: 208
    Some DOHC engines have enough valve clearance so that the engine isn't destroyed if the belt breaks. However, those engines are typically of the lower performance variety. In order to have a lot of clearance, the combustion chamber must be larger, hence lower compression, hence less hp. In a hi perf/hi compression motor, the closed valves must be closer to the top of the piston due to the smaller combustion chamber.

    The pushrod design never has to worry about a broken timing belt/chain. It also is limited to 2 valves per cyl. (I believe 4 valve pushrod designs have been done but they were not very successful). Two valves are not as good for very hi revving engines (8,000+ rpm) due to less maximum airflow. Of course with the big block Chevy motors such as the Z06, the hp and torque are not made at those rpms - they have displacement on their side. For bang for the buck, NOTHING beats raw displacement.

    1offroader
  • jreaganjreagan Posts: 285
    Belias likes to twist what we say around to his liking so that he can try to maintain his arguments.

    Bottom line:
    Toyota is "Fugly", Inside and out. Fast? yes, Powerful? Yes. Reliable? Remains to be seen. Better? Nope. Ugly? In every way possible.

    I have asked several times...Doesn't Toyota believe in body lines? And nice front end!!! haha. Oh, and don't get me started on that really stupid, ugly and poorly layed out interior.
  • pmuscepmusce Posts: 132
    Continuing my reply to your post:

    "-more cup/thermos holders across the line"

    Have you been in each configuration of each vehicle and counted them? I’m not sure how many the tundra has, but I know the Silverado has one for each passenger, which seems reasonable. Are you seriously listing this as a benefit?

    "- much more advanced Navigation system (see audio/voice controls section and POI numbers, integration with other onboard systems)"

    This one is pretty vague. Care to explain what makes it more advanced? Here is what the Silverado Nav does:

    ‘The new Touch-Screen Navigation Radio,(1) available in LTZ Crew Cab models, helps ensure you have the right map at hand during your travels. And, unlike a paper map, this system can help you get back on track if you happen to make a wrong turn. Included is a 6.5-inch-diagonal, full-color touch-screen display with the ability to play a CD (or DVD when the available rear-seat entertainment system is ordered) and use the navigation DVD. Also featured is voice recognition with the ability to respond to up to 26 commands.
    • When the navigation disc is inserted and the address is entered, a route map is generated (accompanied by audio and/or text) that provides step-by-step instructions as well as points of interest, such as hotels and restaurants (if requested).
    • These commands tell drivers when to turn and alert them if they stray from the calculated route.
    • If a wrong turn is made, the system automatically recalculates a new route from the current position.
    The navigation radio lets drivers select between routes using either the shortest path or the one that utilizes major roads.’

    "- rear child-door locks on the Tundra"

    Also available on Silverado

    "- standard side, side-curtain, and front air bags for Tundra where just the fronts are standard on the Chevy with the option to have side-curtains on some models (no sides available)."

    Silverado front airbags are Dual-stage air bags. They sense the severity of a crash and determine if the air bags should be deployed and whether a full or less-than-full amount of inflation will be used.

    The standard Passenger Sensing System automatically switches the right-front passenger front air bag on or off based on the passenger’s weight and the type of pressure on the seat.

    The Silverado’s Head-Curtain side impact is one integrated airbag that combines complete side-head coverage. Deployed upon sensing a rollover, these air bags cover the first and second rows of Crew and Extended Cab models, or the driver and outboard passenger of Regular Cab models. Plus, they are designed to stay inflated for up to six seconds to help reduce the risk of ejection in the unlikely event of a rollover.

    "- bigger brakes all the way around with 4-piston calipers up front Tundra. "

    Many things make up good braking performance. The Silverado beat the Tundra in braking in both C&D and Motor Trend comparisons.

    "- windshield wiper de-icer grid with timer for rapid defrosting of windshield on Tundra."

    The Silverado has heated windshield washer fluid. The system heats the fluid to 170 degrees Fahrenheit. Which one do you think will defrost ice faster?

    "- Vehicle Stability Control, Traction Control, ABS with EBD, and Brake Assist on Tundra as opposed to ABS and StabiliTrak on Silverado"

    The Silverado has all those features:

    All Silverado and Silverado HD models come equipped with a standard four-wheel antilock brake system (ABS) — a crash-avoidance feature that helps prevent wheel lockup during braking in most slippery road conditions. The brakes also include Dynamic Rear Proportioning, which regulates front and rear brake pressure to optimize performance under varying load conditions.

    StabiliTrak helps Silverado 1500 models surround you in 360 degrees of safety. This system helps improve vehicle stability, particularly during emergency maneuvers. The system, standard on Crew Cab models and available on select Extended Cab models, also includes Proactive Roll Avoidance, which reduces the risk of a rollover. Here’s how StabiliTrak works:
    • The StabiliTrak control module compares your steering input with the truck’s actual response and then, if necessary, makes small, individual brake applications to enhance control and keep you on track.
    • StabiliTrak automatically intervenes when it senses loss of lateral traction (sideslip), understeer (plowing) or oversteer (fishtailing).
    In these situations, the system applies brake pressure and, if necessary, adjusts engine torque to help the driver get the vehicle back on track.

    "- Information centers on Tundra contain more information then what is displayed on the Silverado"

    Such as? Here is what the Silverado Info Centre has:

    The standard DIC features an expanded array of alerts and a larger display window that shows two rows of characters. New pushbutton controls are located to the right of the gauge cluster for quick access to trip computer functions:
    • Trip/Fuel: Displays the odometer, trip odometer, fuel range, average economy, fuel used, timer, transmission temperature and Active Fuel Management™ indicator (if equipped)
    • Vehicle Information: Displays Silverado powertrain, security and chassis messages such as oil life, engine hours, engine hot or overheated, Tire Pressure Monitor, door or hood open, washer fluid and StabiliTrak on/off
    • Customization: Customize vehicle features to your preference, including language, remote door lock and unlock, exit and approach lighting, loudness of vehicle chimes, seat memory recall and remote start enable
    Set/Reset: Set or reset certain vehicle functions as well as acknowledge DIC messages

    "- Tundra has better performance in acceleration, handling, handling under load, and braking then the Silverado (as mentioned by performance numbers in virtually every comparison test).
    -Better power/torque numbers for the Tundra"

    I’ll give you acceleration for the 5.7 (although this will change in 2008 when the 6.2 becomes available in the Silverado). The 4.7 Tundra is a slug and is outdone by the 4.8/5.3 Silverado due to Silverado’s weight advantage. Handling and Handling under load are subjective and I’ve seen comparisons that have favoured both. Braking has been won by Silverado in both C&D and Motor Trend. I noticed you failed to mention ride? Every test I have read had given the ride advantage to Silverado.

    "- Towing payload numbers favor Tundra in various configurations by 2 to 1."

    Sorry I posted all the configurations a few days ago and it was a tossup. You are still assuming the Max Trailoring Package is not available on the Silverado which is false.

    "- More power points in Tundra then in the Silverado (3 or 4 to 2)"

    The Silverado has two on the dash and one in the centre console. You get a fourth with the available rear audio controls.
  • 1offroader1offroader Posts: 208
    P.S. The pushrod design also has a timing chain, but it is MUCH less susceptible to breakage due to its much shorter length and the fact that it always turns in the same direction. The OHC belt makes a bunch of loops, changes direction, etc. with increased wear and tear. It is also much longer, with more opportunity to develop a weak link.

    1offroader
  • Dont get me started the Chevy has a nice interior, but the exterior (in person) is ugly! I can't bear to see it. The Tundra in person is a very beautiful truck, and I for one love the interior.BTW.. If you think I'm trying to back up Toyota i'm not, I've owned and '05 Silverado, very nice truck, but not anymore. Tundra is very good! :P
  • toykickstoykicks Posts: 95
    Thats your opinion. I think the tundra looks freaken awesome, agressive front end doesnt look average or bland & interior isnt as bad as most people say here and its aimed at functionality not style (screw fake wood). You need to look at it in person not in pictures the tundra Is a beaut but thats my opinion. I like the silverado also but its average same styling cues as always doesnt really stand out from the rest of the 1/2 tons. Its really hard to like the silvy/sierra to get the same capabilities you need to pay extra for a 6.0 and not have the same towing acceleration or standard safety features in the tundra. You dont get the 3/4 ton differential either in the sierra or silvy
  • blufz1blufz1 Posts: 2,045
    Looks are subjective. I think the Chevy looks better than before and I also like the Tundra. I think that you can better tailor the chevy because of the ability to order individual options vs. a few packages on the Toy. Pay your money and take your choice.
  • 1offroader1offroader Posts: 208
    I don't get personal on this board, but comments such as "I can't bear to see it" sounds sort of...well...sissy-ish, if you know what I mean.

    "Why Rhett, I'll just get the vapors if ah evah see that truck agayin. Lordy me!". LOL!!!!!!

    BTW, better get used to it, there will eventually be millions on the road. You are going to have a very difficult life if you literally "can't bear to see it."

    1offroader
  • pmuscepmusce Posts: 132
    Here are some non-subjective advantages the Silverado has over the Tundra:

    1) Cargo Management System. Not available on Tundra.

    http://www.chevrolet.com/pop/silverado/2007/cargo_management_en.jsp

    2) Extended Cab Model rear doors open 170 degrees for full access to the interior. The Tundra Double Cab rear doors are small do not provide anywhere near this level of access.

    http://www.chevrolet.com/pop/silverado/2007/rear_doors_en.jsp

    3)Rainsense windshield wiper system. Not available on Tundra.

    http://www.chevrolet.com/pop/silverado/2007/rainsense_en.jsp

    4)Heated windshield washer fluid. Not available on Tundra.

    http://www.chevrolet.com/pop/silverado/2007/heated_washer_fluid_en.jsp

    5)All Silverado Engines have chains. The 5.7 Tundra is also chain driven but the 4.7 is belt driven. Belts do not belong in a truck. I’m not sure about the Tundra V6.

    6)Best V8 fuel economy in the full size pickup class. The 5.3 V8’s EPA is 16/22 city/highway, thanks to cylinder deactivation.

    7)Available auto locking rear differential. Not available on Tundra.

    8)Standard Car Compatibility Bracket. This safety feature will save lives in accidents with cars. See link for details. Not available on Tundra.

    http://www.chevrolet.com/pop/silverado/2007/car_bracket_en.jsp

    9)Long Box Models have 34 gallon fuel capacity. When coupled with the 5.3, that results in highway range of 748 miles. The largest tank available in the Tundra is 26.4 resulting in highway range of 528 miles.

    10)Autotrac Active 4x4 system. Not available on Tundra.

    http://www.chevrolet.com/pop/silverado/2007/4_autotrac_en.jsp

    11)Onstar Standard with first year free. My wifes car has this and it’s a great feature. She’s a stay at home mom with our two young kids so she has them in the car a lot. Onstar will automatically send an ambulance if the vehicle is involved in a collision and the airbags deploy. They also call the vehicle to see if everyone is OK. You can get you doors unlocked remotely as well if you lock your keys in the vehicle. Onstar has also been able to track and recover stolen vehicles. Not Available on Tundra.

    12)Better Powertrain warranty. 5 years/100,000 miles vs 5 years/60,000 miles

    13)Available remote vehicle start system. Not available on Tundra

    http://www.chevrolet.com/pop/silverado/2007/remote_starter_en.jsp

    14)Available XM Satellite Radio. Not available on Tundra

    http://www.chevrolet.com/pop/silverado/2007/xmradio_silverado_en.jsp

    15)Better Seat Adjustment Options

    Top Tundra Seats
    Driver-side power 10-way adjustable, passenger-side power 4-way adjustable seats

    Top Silverado Seats
    12-way power adjustments, two-position driver-side memory, power recline, power bolsters, and power lumbar.

    16) Tighter exterior panel gaps.

    17) 6 bolt wheels standard. The Tundra has 5 bolt wheels.

    18) V6 available as 4x4. V6 is RWD only on Tundra.

    19) Heavy Duty models. Not available on Tundra

    20) Diesel Engine available. Not available on Tundra

    21) A Big Gold Bow tie ;) Not available on Tundra
This discussion has been closed.