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Toyota Tundra vs. Chevrolet Silverado

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Comments

  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Here are the numbers off the two respecitive sites for the same configurations.

    From my post #1016 in this forum:

    Quote

    GMT900 EC 2WD 5.3L ... DC 2WD 5.7L
    Model ....Silvy .... Sierra .... Tundra
    Base Pr. 28590 .... 28990 .... 28110
    Freight.... 900 ....... 900 ......... 645
    Total..... 29490 .... 29890 .... 28755 ( $700 and $1100 less expensive )

    But the T900's are missing the following equipment
    6 Speed tranny - Not Available at any price
    Side and curtain airbags - $395
    Stabilitrak - $425
    Tow Package!!! - $675
    Damped Tailgate - $95

    So just to bring the T900's up to the same equipment level as the Tundra you have to add $1590 to a Base which is already $700 to $1100 higher than the Tundra.

    Unquote
    Again this is for the 5.3L the 6.0L is more and the Max Trailering package has to be added to get the top towing capacity. That's a significant pricing advantage for the Tundra ( or alternately a content advantage if the prices are kept the same ).

    Now the pricing in Canada may be entirely different, I know that there is a lot of discussion about it on Ts but the impression I got was that the Tundra was very very reasonable.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    None are out yet. The initial ones like in every launch will be at or near MSRP of about $45000.

    When some are available after 6 months like the T900's it'll be a good comparison.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Short year.. that sounds about right to me 150K to 170K.

    Gas gets over $3/gal and stays there for a while every one will take it in the neck.

    But to complete the scenario

    T900's 950K
    F150 725K
    Ram 250K
    Tundra 160K
    Titan 40K
  • jreaganjreagan Posts: 285
    Based on an article I read while on an airplane traveling this past week, Evidently Toyota overspent by over $400 Million dollars on the San Antonio plant and will need to recover that loss in sales, so don't expect any pricing discounts and higher list prices are expected until this loss is made up. So much for Toyota being immune to financial issues, and this is just the beginning.
    Toyota buyers will be paying for this financial blunder. GM buyers are still receiving significant discounts off msrp even though GM has their own financial shortcomings to overcome. hmmm, different philosophy I guess.
  • KCRam@EdmundsKCRam@Edmunds Mt. Arlington NJPosts: 3,497
    Two things about your prediction:

    - that's F-Series, not F-150. That sales volume includes 150 through 550.

    - the Ram won't drop that far for two reasons... the Cummins diesel in the HD trucks, and the dealer network - there are still those who are concerned about service and familiarity, especially if they're on the road a lot. Plus, the Ram will add 4500/5500 models later this year that will go on the ledger as well. The Ram will still sell in the 325K range.

    kcram - Pickups Host

    KCRam - Pickups/Wagons/Vans+Minivans Moderator

  • KCRam@EdmundsKCRam@Edmunds Mt. Arlington NJPosts: 3,497
    Toyota only gains revenue if they increase the invoice price to the distributors. They get no benefit from retail markup at the distributor or dealer levels.

    kcram - Pickups Host

    KCRam - Pickups/Wagons/Vans+Minivans Moderator

  • pmuscepmusce Posts: 132
    "Short year.. that sounds about right to me 150K to 170K.

    Gas gets over $3/gal and stays there for a while every one will take it in the neck.

    But to complete the scenario

    T900's 950K
    F150 725K
    Ram 250K
    Tundra 160K
    Titan 40K "

    For comparison here are the 2006 numbers:
    T900's 850K
    F150 800K
    Ram 365K
    Tundra 125K
    Titan 72K

    Wow kdhspyder, you predicting a hell of a drop for Ram (115K) and a significant % drop for Titan with the T900's picking up most of the gain. I'm not sure things will shift that drastically. Here's my full prediction:

    T900's 900K
    F150 750K
    Ram 320K
    Tundra 155K
    Titan 60K
  • jreaganjreagan Posts: 285
    Just wanted to share this with you...

    As most of you probably know, I have ordered a new GMC Sierra SLT 4x4 6.0l. The dealer had offered me $11,500 for my trade. After mentioning this to my brother, he immediately said he wanted to buy my truck. Well, I told him he would have to pay me the $11,500 plus the $750 in sales tax savings I would be saving by trading it in since you only pay sales tax on the net purchase price after trade in. Well, my dealer then mentioned we could do a dealer "pass-thru" which means I would trade it in for $11,500, saving me the sales tax and they would turn around and sell it to him for $11,500 plus a small documentation fee (for title transfer, etc). He still pays sales tax, but didn't have to pay me my tax savings.
    Anyway, he sold his truck in order to buy mine and has been without a vehicle for the past 2 weeks or so while waiting for mine to arrive. It was due to arrive last Wed and I was planning on picking it up today. But since we have had 2 consecutive snowstorms here in MN over the past week (10 inches last weekend and 14" late last week) The transport company could not get it there on Wed. Keep in mind, my dealer is no longer able to make any money on my trade, so my purchase is their only source of profit, and they sold to me at invoice, so their profits are limited to about 6% in dealer "holdbacks" and maybe a few hundred dollars in other factory volume discounts. I wasn't in a big hurry since I have a truck and I kinda preferred to wait until the storms passed to take delivery anyway. But my brother was without a vehicle and wanted my truck. The dealer said to come on in anyway and trade in my truck so he can take it and they gave me a FREE loaner to use until my truck is ready for delivery about mid-week. The truck will be there on Monday, but I am having several dealer-installed accessories put on. The dealer did NOT have to do this and offered this without me even mentioning it. Then today, I asked about GM's "Auto Butler" program. It is a paint sealant program where every 6 months for 5 years (10 times total) you bring in the truck and they detail it inside and out and reapply the paint sealant. So, basically for 5 yrs I do not have to detail or wax my truck. This program sells for $500. I mentioned that a friend of mine bought a $50k Yukon Denali last Dec and they threw in the Auto Butler for free. I mentioned that I didn't necessarily expect the same deal since he spent $50k and paid well over invoice. I kinda was hoping to get him to knock off $100 bucks or so, or maybe even half price? Well, he then said he would give it to me for $99. Remember, he did this for me AFTER the deal was done and paperwork was signed. He did NOT have to offer me even one penny off. I am pretty sure they will not make money at $99, but he knew I wanted it and wanted me to be happy. How's that for being treated right? In the long run, offering me that will pay off for them because I will tell this story as I am sure many others will and it will bring them more business. I know one guy at work now who is thinking of buying a new GM and I will highly recommend this dealer to him. Yet another reason GM has such a loyalty base.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Yep they bumped the cost from $800 Million to $1.2 Billion in order to add 50K of initial immediate production there.

    As to incentives... from day one they have been subventing the financing rate which is unheard of by Toyota on an initial launch. From the first week some dealers have also been offering up to $2500 off sticker. That's another shocker if true.
  • jreaganjreagan Posts: 285
    Well, I saved about $4k off sticker, plus recieved $2k in rebates and got 0% for 36 months. Not bad huh?
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    good catch on the F-Series.. You're right of course.

    Both Ford and Dodge are downsizing. Ford's I know already effect the F-series with the closure of Norfolk. Dodge? maybe too early to tell.
  • jreaganjreagan Posts: 285
    Toyota only gains revenue if they increase the invoice price to the distributors. They get no benefit from retail markup at the distributor or dealer levels.

    Of course not, but higher invoice pricing drives up MSRP pricing.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Depending on your equipment it's about the same as the $2500 discount, if true, offered on the new Tundras. You save a more with 0% than 2.9%
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    But right from jump street Toyota's MSRP's, and probably their invoices, are well below both the Silvy and the Sierra....all equipment being equal.

    By doing this it makes GM react, as in your case, by being more agressive. Making the other guy 'blink' is always a good thing in business.
  • jreaganjreagan Posts: 285
    Not according to my research. I priced the Toyota and it listed higher with equivalent equipment. About $1500 higher if my memory serves me correctly. Mine listed for about $42.5K and the Tundra was close to $44K
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    I showed the MSRP's above. Those are right off the websites.
  • jreaganjreagan Posts: 285
    I am referring to the MSRP's for the top-tier models. GMC Sierra SLT Crewcab with 6.0l and the Tundra Crewmax Ltd with 5.7L. I even asked others what they found for MSRP on a fully loaded Tundra and it was around $45K. Mine was $42.5K (MSRP) $39K (Invoice) Loaded with EVERYTHING except Nav/rear DVD.
  • jreaganjreagan Posts: 285
    PS: Even though I am excited to be getting my new truck next week. Today was a very sad day for me selling my 2000 to my brother. That truck has been awesome for me. I do feel glad that it is still in the family and not going to some stranger who may not take care of it the way I did. But it was tough seeing it in his driveway this afternoon. Would I be saying this if I had reliability issues with it? Oh, and BTW, I went through this same thing 7-1/2 years ago when I sold my 89 to my best friend and bought my 2000 brand new. And yes, he had continued GREAT luck with my 89 and drove it until just last year before buying a new one. It has almost 300K miles on it and is still going strong.
  • At the North American International Auto Show in Detroit in January 07, I performed the following unscientific and admittedly subjective test on display models of the new Tundra, the new Silverado, the Titan, the F-150, and the Dodge Ram. 1. Open driver side door. 2. From the outside of the truck, brace your right knee against the exterior sheet metal about 1 foot above the door bottom and about 2-3 inches from the open edge of the door (where it's strongest and you won't bend the sheet metal). Take your right hand, grab hold of the top edge of the door frame above the window and pull the top edge toward you. I describe this s you can do this test yourself, if so inclined, preferably when the salesperson is not looking.

    On the Dodge, Ford, and Chevy, there was no discernable flex in the door when subjected to this stress. On the Nissan there was about 1.5-inch of flex in the door, partly in the door itself and partly at the hinge itself. On the Toyota, there was 1-inch of flex, mostly in the door itself with a little from the hinge. Differently from the Nissan, the flexure in the Tundra door was in the door itself and not from the window frame. The Toyota has a curved shape to the door exterior, giving it some strength relative to the flat metal of the Titan door. Note that I stopped pulling before doing permanent damage--I'm 5'9" and 230 lbs, just for reference.

    So what might this mean. Long term, flexure of this sort in any type of rugged use will lead to premature development of rattles. In a side impact accident, the Toyota and Nissan doors may be more easily compromised (opened or damaged) than the others. The inclusion of side air bags in the Tundra may be a partial compensation for this lighter duty construction. If this is typical of the rest of the construction, it may be a case of a vehicle being benchmarked to meet or exceed some capabilities while ignoring more fundamental characteristics of structural strength. My disclaimer--no reputable organization witnessed or certified this test--just me kicking the tires.
  • jreaganjreagan Posts: 285
    westfieldind,

    You do realize that these Toy-lovers on here will disregard your findings due to lack of hard-concrete "numbers". Evidently they are unable to use common sense. ie: kdhspyder needs hard facts and numbers to understand or admit that a fully boxed frame is better.

    As for flimsy doors, it is understandable since Toy's engineers obviously were prioritizing 0-60 times and making a large truck and didn't consider the entire package taking into account the "little things" that make a good truck great. Flimsy doors will not only lead to rattles, but they will also undoubtedly lead to leaky seals due to inconsistent sealing around the entire perimeter of the door. Doors and hinges that are robust and structurally more rigid will resist air leaks and door "sag" over time. But I suppose spyder will need "numbers' to understand this.
    But hey!, The Tundra has the best 0-60 time..for the next few months or so at the most (until the 6.2 GM becomes widely available). Now that's what's important, right?
This discussion has been closed.