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Toyota Tundra vs. Chevrolet Silverado

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Comments

  • pmuscepmusce Posts: 132
    "That's right. MT played the value card on the $42k Tundra LTD. That made sense. The performance advantages were significant, but not to the outcome. Easy to poke holes in that article, but I chose not to. It is what it is. Draw your own conclusions. "

    I could just as easily poke holes in the Edmunds comparison of the two trucks as well. Typical of this forum, any advantage the GMT900's have is down played or ignored.

    As for drawing your own conclusions, you got that right. Over 70,000 people did that in February and bought a GM full size pickup.
  • beliasbelias Posts: 316
    Just a side note that February sales for the Silverado eclipsed the F150, so this may be the first year that the Silverado by itself outsells the F150. I've already noticed that the Ford commercials are saying that the "F series" pickup is the best selling 30 years running. If I'm not mistaken, they used to say the "F-150" is the best selling.
    In any case, even if the Tundra were worlds ahead of the Silverado, it would not out-sell it. Selling volume is more of an indicator of established brand equity and how entrenched a company is in its target market. Obviously the Tundra has a long way to go in this respect. But that doesn't mean that they won't be a big player in this market. It just means that it isn't right now. Getting there will take many years.
    For now, I'm still concerned that there aren't huge differences in these trucks aside from what appeals to people's personal preference/taste. The thread itself is kind of exhausting meaningful differences other than bragging rights. But at the very least it can be acknowledged that there is another legitimate contender in the full-size truck market. How that plays out in the next few years will depends on many different factors. I think that ultimately the company's financial picture will come into play more strongly as more price pressure is put on this segment. Ford has the most to loose from this scenario so far.
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    "Typical of this forum, any advantage the GMT900's have is down played or ignored."

    You're half right.

    See, there are Chevy guys in here and Toyota guys. And what happens is that the Chevy guys trumpet all advantages that the GMT900's have while they downplay or ignore the advantages of the Tundra.

    And the Toyota guys trumpet all advantages that the Tundra has while they downplay or ignore the advantages of the GMT900's.

    It's what passes for "debate" these days: ignore the other guy's point and only press your own. At least it's better than name calling which (apparently) got at least one GM fan kicked out of Edmunds.

    I will offer this: the previous Chevy's were better than the previous Tundras for serious truck guys. GM has made the new Silverado better. At the same time, Toyota has made the Tundra MUCH better (in terms of what matters to serious truck guys).

    Now, is the new Chevy better than the new Toyota? Personally, I think that BOTH are exceptionally capable trucks likely to provide YEARS of fine service to virtually anyone in the market for a 1/2 ton. They EACH have their own set of strengths and weaknesses; continually arguing about which is the "best" is (IMO) stupid, since different buyers appreciate different qualities/features.

    As far as sales numbers: does McDonald's make the best hamburger just because they sell more? Personally, I don't give a rip HOW many people bought vehicle 'x' last year or last month.
  • pmuscepmusce Posts: 132
    I can't speak for others on this forum, but I have never ignored any advantages that the Tundra has over the GMT900's. The reason I mentioned the sales was to point out that clearly the GMT900's are very appealing trucks. You are correct that sales do not equate the being the best. If that were the case, the Camry would not be the best selling mid-size car :) Before anyone asks, my answer would be Accord.
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    I have no problem saying the Silverado is as good as the Tundra, or vice versa. They each have different strengths, and will probably appeal to different buyers. I don't think either truck will lose sales to the other. They can take from Dodge, Nissan, and Ford, and their own customer base, which is just fine.

    Using GM's sales against the Tundra is useless, since Toyota may not be able to even build 200k units this year. That doesn't mean the Tundra is inferior, just not established as a brand. This will take a generation, or two. I think Toyota will continue to gain ground, and in 2 years, we can reaccess.

    GM and Toyota should be commended. They've both raised the state-of-the-art. :)

    DrFill
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,652
    You took the words right out of my mouth. :) I posted the following over on Straightline the other day.

    http://blogs.edmunds.com/Straightline/2460

    Bob
  • KCRam@EdmundsKCRam@Edmunds Mt. Arlington NJPosts: 3,497
    Both claims are correct. The F-150 is the best selling single nameplate model, since it accounts for about 60-65% of all F-Series sales. The F-Series has indeed been the best selling line for all those years.

    If Ford doesn't get their house in order, that could change for 2007.

    kcram - Pickups Host

    KCRam - Pickups/Wagons/Vans+Minivans Moderator

  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Posts: 1,150
    My Porsche Cayenne uses a cartridge and I've wondered why. Maybe it is because the cartridge won't blow off on a cold morning as a spin-on will? The oil change interval is something like 20K on these things, much to long for me, but maybe the cartridge has something to do with this? I'd love to know if the V6 Toureg which is essentially the same engine has a cartridge or the more consumer friendly spin on.
  • 1offroader1offroader Posts: 208
    there may be some weird benefit to the cartridge system that I haven't heard of yet

    Yes, belias, there is a weird benefit. It's called "profit". The cartridge filters are not nearly as available as the spin-on types, and they are a lot more $$$. Plus, given the apparent relative complexity of doing it yourself on the Tundra, some portion of those who might've done their own will resort to the dealer. So, the dealer profits by either selling the filters, or having you pay to have them do the entire job. Next question - what does the Toyota dealer charge for the oil & filter change? I'm going to guess between $40-$50. I can do the Silverado for about $13 if I get the oil & filters on sale.

    bugchucker just can't believe that someone would want to spend time changing their own oil. Yikes! What an elitist attitude. Hard to believe he's/she's a pickup owner, but I guess it takes all kinds...

    It takes me a HECKUVA lot less time to do it myself. About 15 minutes on the Silverado. It takes most people more time than that just to drive to the dealer (or wherever) to have it done, not to mention the wait and then the drive home.

    Then there is the issue of QUALITY - I've either personally experienced or witnessed stripped-out oil pan drain plug threads; cross-threaded filters; insufficiently tightened filters; overly tightened filters; too much oil; too little oil; and incorrect oil type/viscosity.

    When I do the work it's ALWAYS done right and it's done in much less time. I recommend it to everyone (except bugchucker).

    Hey, props go to the Tundra fans who at least answered my questions about the procedure & etc. At least you're (reluctantly) honest about the Tundra being a PITA on the oil change issue.

    1offroader
  • bugchuckerbugchucker Posts: 118
    I like having my oil changed by the dealer. I give them my keys. I enjoyed a pastry and fresh brewed coffee. I cruise the internet or check out their new vehicles. 45 minutes later, I'm out the door. Car is even washed. If that is elitist, I'm okay with that. BTW, I don't cut grass either.
  • 1offroader1offroader Posts: 208
    I change my own oil, and 15 minutes later I'm about $30 richer and out the door to do something fun - like 4 wheelin', fishing, hunting, skiing, working out, etc. BTW I cut my own grass, wash my own cars, and hunt & fish my own meat. And if that makes me an ordinary sort I'm totally OK with that.

    1offroader
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Posts: 1,150
    1Offroader, I like your posts. I truly do. But have you ever heard of the law of comparative advantage? It goes like this. Sure you can change your own oil, mow your lawn and probably do a lot of other things better than a 18 year old kid with zits. But, you should be doing higher level things where you have the comparative advantage. Lke putting in a few more hours a week at work to build your career which long term will have far more benefits than the money you saved cutting grass and doing an oil change. OK, maybe you have no opportunity for upward mobility, how about health. Rather than hire yourself out for $8 an hour, you could work out for an hour and a half every day five days a week vs. whatever exercise you do now, with much more benefits to you than beating some kid out of his chump change. Don't like the way the work is done at the typical high volume Chevy store or K Mart (believe me, they hire from the same stagnant pool ? OK, support a local garage that is run the right way and charges enough to stay in business.

    In the end though, I think you are right. Doing these small things cuts down on some of the alienation of modern life and they get done right!

    YMMV
  • chrmdomechrmdome Posts: 107
    Greetings:

    I cannot agree with you more... do it yourself and it's done correctly. I had a 1992 Astrovan, never taken to a mechanic, it was a rust bucket before the engine would need work. Gave it to a charity at 196,000 miles. Tahoe or Silverado.. do my own oil changes, done correctly, filled correctly and takes less than 20 minutes at half the cost. Anyone who can't or won't change thier own oil shouldn't own a truck....next question!

    Chromedome 2007 Silverado Vortec MAX, Blue Granite Metalic 4x4 WITH almost everything save the Bose... Love it at 53 miles
  • chrmdomechrmdome Posts: 107
    Greetings:

    Ya, I used to toss my keys to the dweb at the BMW dealer for an oil change. Both times the car came back damaged. That was the topical issue that I could see. God knows what they did when they had the hood open. The fewer number of times you let the dealer have your car, the few number of chances they have to screw your car up. If you are so free with letting some at your car, the next time you go out to a nice eatery, let the valet grab your car... twist your nexk and watch the snotty nosed attendant burn a few pounds of rubber of your tires. I used to park cars when I was a kid, it was great fun!

    Chromedone
  • rubendogrubendog Posts: 7
    Chrome,

    NICE new ride! Surprised you bothered to come back here when you only have 53 miles on the clock. You should be out gloating!
  • ggesqggesq Posts: 701
    "Next question - what does the Toyota dealer charge for the oil & filter change? I'm going to guess between $40-$50. "

    Wrong. My local dealer charges $21.95.

    "I can do the Silverado for about $13 if I get the oil & filters on sale."
    The canister type filter is about 20-23 dollars at full price. Taking into consideration that the oil change intervals for the Tundra are longer, the price difference might be a wash.

    "Then there is the issue of QUALITY - I've either personally experienced or witnessed stripped-out oil pan drain plug threads; cross-threaded filters; insufficiently tightened filters; overly tightened filters; too much oil; too little oil; and incorrect oil type/viscosity."

    If this is the type of service you get from Chevy, I can definately see your benefit from doing it on your own.

    "Plus, given the apparent relative complexity of doing it yourself on the Tundra, some portion of those who might've done their own will resort to the dealer."
    "At least you're (reluctantly) honest about the Tundra being a PITA on the oil change issue."

    I knew you would spin this is. Please post a link to someone who actually stated it was a PITA.
  • ggesqggesq Posts: 701
    "Anyone who can't or won't change thier own oil shouldn't own a truck....next question!"

    :confuse:
  • beliasbelias Posts: 316
    Personally, I agree with 1offroader on the oil-change thing; one should be able to do their own oil-change if they wanted to do it. However, it isn't always possible given that time and effort to do it may be limited at times. There is also a certain satisfaction in working on one's own vehicle and knowing that YOU were the one to do the work and not worry about what somebody else does or doesn't do to it. I had an experience where the dealer left the oil cap OFF OF THE ENGINE. I actually had the oil change done just before a 4 hour road trip. Needless to say that despite the engine seemingly not too physically damaged amazingly enough, I had oil all over the inside of the hood and throughout the engine bay. Now, I ALWAYS check after a change to make sure that everything is on and tight! I also do my own oil changes whenever I can.
    Having said that though, there are times where it is cheaper and easier to do it at a dealer. I've done that several times and even have my car vaccumed and washed free.
    Until we get more info on how to do the actual oil-change, I'm going to reserve judging whether this cartridge system is easier/harder than a typical oil change. If it is just a "different" way to do it but doesn't take more time/effort to do, then I don't see what is wrong with the system... hopefully we can get more owners to report on their experiences with this soon.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    The cost of an oil change is all over the place..

    $0.. for life
    $0.. for 2 years
    $9.95
    $13.95..
    $21.95.. very common
    $29.95
  • bugchuckerbugchucker Posts: 118
    Why worry that the dealer performed the service correctly? If they screw up, they will fix it at their expense. If I screw up, I am responsible for all charges.
    A couple years ago, my wife drove home from the dealer after a service. Within a FEW MILES of the dealer, the idiot light came on and the engine seized up. Someone forgot to add fluid to the vehicle. Anyway, she got to drive an upgrade vehicle for a month or 2 with unlimited miles, a new engine with warranty and now only the master mechanic touches one of her vehicles. She sold that vehicle with a transferrable warranty. She is still on a first name basis with her master mechanic and she never waits even 1 minute at the dealer.
This discussion has been closed.