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Toyota Tundra vs. Chevrolet Silverado

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Comments

  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I think it's critical to their marketing to out power the competition like they have for years.

    Huh? Are we talking half-tons? Sivlerado had a 5.3L with 310hp right? Last I checked, the Dodge has had this beat for awhile now with a 5.7L 345 hp. Am I forgetting something?
  • I would think that would be the 6.2 V8 in the Denali.

    Okay, this is a future engine not even listed on the GMC web site for the Denali. Even with the lessor Denali engine which is quite "lessor" to say the least, the Denali starts at over $40,000. At this price point you could get a 4x4 Tundra Crew Max 5.7, 6 speed, Limited. The Denali is a very small part of the truck market for GM. Just to stick to the point of this thread, we're talking about the Silverado not the luxury Denali. The Silvy is GM's most popular mass production half ton not some obscure luxury truck that hardly anybody buys. That is why the 6.2 isn't seriously discussed in debates like this. Grasping at the 6.2 saying it beats the 5.7 is kind of well ....desperate. The more interesting question is will they move the 6.2 to the Silvy as an option and how much will it cost, and what are the likely reliability issues.

    I often find it funny how some of you guys spin the thread to make lower models from GM compete against the top models from Toyota. I hope that makes y'all feel warm inside.

    GM has vastly improved the Silvy from the last generation. Just looking at the exterior it seems to exude a better feeling of quality over the last generation, but the top silvy still can't compete with the top Tundra in the powertrain department. As for the interiors, I'll leave that discussion for all the women interior decorators that seem to frequent these truck discussions. The only warm feeling I get inside is when I'm right. I've been feeling quite warm lately.

    I don't doubt that GM will catch up to the current Tundra, but more than likely Toyota will have something better in the works. I've heard from people supposedly in the know that the 5.7 can be tuned comfortably above 400hp and won't actually blow until approaching 500hp. We'll see what Toyota has in store. What's surprising is that toyota so comfortably trumped the recently released silvy (which is a pretty good truck) with their first true attempt at a full size truck.


    Y'all are going to buy it not because you need the extra powertrain but because it wears the Toyota badge and thats enough reason to make the purchase even though you will pay more, get less of a warranty, and get less features and refinement.

    Isn't the Toyota badge enough especially when I've owned a Toy truck for 15+ years and it still runs like new. I might add that one main point people talk about in these discussions is how brand loyal domestic truck buyers are and that they won't give the new Tundra a chance simply because it's asian. Talk about buying a vehicle just because of the badge, domestic truck buyers are the epitome of that statement. Detroit is counting on a segment of the market called "import avoiders". These people are out there and won't buy a vehicle simply because it has a Toyota badge. There is alot of anti Honda/Toyota sentiment on the web, and I notice the same vitriolic comments aren't directed toward euro brands ie. BMW, Mercedez etc. I think it boils down for some reason to an anti asian bias or the "R" word. Some people are very reluctant to recognize the quality of asian products siting customers as sheep, press bias etc. Any reason other than the Japanese make a superior product.

    One point I'll grant you is that Toyota should step up their warranty if not to compete with GM, then to compete with Hyundai which is the greater threat to both Toyota and Honda. Hyundai has made great strides in quality over the last few years and is very focused on competing with Toyota. Toyota has grown, some say to fast which has elicted some quality issues which I believe will be quickly corrected simply because it's their way. It's what they do. If Toyota doesn't think that the words quality/reliability are their bread and butter then they deserve their fate. One thing I am fairly certain of is that they crossed their T's and dotted their i's with this new truck. They can't afford to have issues. This truck must make a impression and must say quality and reliability. Toyota is already introducing this truck with killer financing rates. They've come to play and play hard. They want as many of these trucks on the road as quickly as possible proving themselves. That factory is going to be churning out trucks like crazy to meet that 200K goal.
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    Am I forgetting something?

    Yep !!!! I'm talking about the whole company and not just a specific segment.....but FYI that same dodge was met with a 345 hp. 6.0 GMC Sierra Denali. ;) Now dodge is at the back of the pack when it comes to muscle presently. That goes for the whole car company of Chrysler corp. but it's not as bad as Fords current line-up ;)

    Rocky
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Now dodge is at the back of the pack when it comes to muscle presently. That goes for the whole car company of Chrysler corp.

    Guess you forget the Titan and F-150 then?

    ...Sierra Denali with 6.0L 345 hp...

    Was this offered in any other half-tons other than the $45k Caddy of pickups? Anything that might remotely be used for more work than lux? It is such a narrow model, I'd not heard of anything like it since the Sierra C3.
  • ggesqggesq Posts: 701
    "I think it's critical to their marketing to out power the competition like they have for years."

    rock- have you ever heard of the SVT F150 Lightning or Dodgre Ram R/T? Both trucks both come with more standard hp than the Silvy SS.
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    Dude, your kidding me ?????

    Okay, this is a future engine not even listed on the GMC web site for the Denali.

    I guess 1-month is way off into the future ??? :confuse:

    Even with the lessor Denali engine which is quite "lessor" to say the least, the Denali starts at over $40,000. At this price point you could get a 4x4 Tundra Crew Max 5.7, 6 speed, Limited. The Denali is a very small part of the truck market for GM.

    The Denali line accounted for 30% of GMC's sales and is projected to rise significantly according to a spokesmouth from GMC marketing team. ;)

    Just to stick to the point of this thread, we're talking about the Silverado not the luxury Denali. The Silvy is GM's most popular mass production half ton not some obscure luxury truck that hardly anybody buys.

    Okay fair enough. I'd like to see 2 like vehicals being compared instead of grabbing straws from Edmunds review which btw is the only car testing company that has the Tundra, ranked over the Silverado. I guess it wouldn't be a first time for them. FYI-GMC, isn't a luxury brand, thus the Denali isn't a luxury truck. The Escalade EXT is the luxury truck with the ultra comfy ride.

    That is why the 6.2 isn't seriously discussed in debates like this. Grasping at the 6.2 saying it beats the 5.7 is kind of well ....desperate. The more interesting question is will they move the 6.2 to the Silvy as an option and how much will it cost, and what are the likely reliability issues.

    The 6.2 will make it to the Silverado, probably as a SS. Rumor's I've read are saying 500+ hp. It could also be a option called the VortecMax for other Silvy models with 400 hp. Look to see it available this fall for 08'. ;) So far, so good for the 6.2. It's been in the Slade since last spring. Has the new 5.7 Tundra V8 been proven ????? What are it's reliability issues ???? :confuse:

    GM has vastly improved the Silvy from the last generation. Just looking at the exterior it seems to exude a better feeling of quality over the last generation, but the top silvy still can't compete with the top Tundra in the powertrain department. As for the interiors, I'll leave that discussion for all the women interior decorators that seem to frequent these truck discussions. The only warm feeling I get inside is when I'm right. I've been feeling quite warm lately.

    I will say it again their's more to a truck than just it's powertrain. the 5.3 is a proven high mileage, ultra reliable engine. If I was driving the 5.7 I'd be concerned with sludge issues and such since that is making news. ;)

    I don't doubt that GM will catch up to the current Tundra

    You can't be serious.....One (1) good apples to oranges review and now GM, has to play catch up ????? Ummmmmm you've lost all credibility from me.

    but more than likely Toyota will have something better in the works. I've heard from people supposedly in the know that the 5.7 can be tuned comfortably above 400hp and won't actually blow until approaching 500hp. We'll see what Toyota has in store. What's surprising is that toyota so comfortably trumped the recently released silvy (which is a pretty good truck) with their first true attempt at a full size truck.

    That Toyota, Kool-Aid must be tasting great. Again 1 good review using a Tundra Limited vs. a stripped down Silverado, by a biased edmunds Toyota, kool-aid drinking staff is the only trump card you need while several other credible sites picked the Silverado over the Tundra ? hmmmmmm...maybe that's because they test similar vehicals when conducting truck tests ????? No that wouldn't be it :D
    BTW-The last generation was their first attempt at a full-size truck and it's not GM's fault they fumbled the oppertunity. ;)

    Isn't the Toyota badge enough especially when I've owned a Toy truck for 15+ years and it still runs like new. I might add that one main point people talk about in these discussions is how brand loyal domestic truck buyers are and they won't give the new Tundra a chance simply because it's asian. Talk about buying a vehicle just because of the badge, domestic truck buyers are the epitome of that statement. Detroit is counting on a segment of the market called "import avoiders". These people are out there and won't buy a vehicle simply because it has a Toyota badge. There is alot of anti Honda/Toyota sentiment on the web, and I notice the same vitriolic comments aren't directed toward euro brands ie. BMW, Mercedez etc. I think it boils down for some reason to an anti asian bias or the "R" word. Some people are very reluctant to recognize the quality of asian products siting customers as sheep, press bias etc. Any reason other than the Japanese make a superior product.

    Most domestic truck buyers are patriotic, blue-collar, working middle class, americans. They don't want some foreign company and country to buy-off what their family died for. They feel the same about our products as the Japanese do about there's. How many Japanese people do you see go buy american or other country's products. They are nationalist. This is Japans, first real attempt to capture sales in a brand loyal crowd. They will sell everyone they make but it won't be easy sales and here in Truck country (Texas) I don't see many Japanese trucks on the road. They are very rare !!!! Some of my co-workers and friends were so disaapointed with trying out Toyota's last generation they said they still won't consider the new one. My buddy Cody, bought a 06' and he's so dissapointed with it after 4,000 miles he's ready to get rid of it. He's been asking me about the Denali and Escalade EXT already. I was like dude I tried to tell you. He says yeah, I should of listened. I asked him if he was going to get a 07' ???? He goes hell no !!!! I should of kept my Lariat Ford :D

    You also need to remember gearhead1, the Euro's don't come over to the U.S. and try to americanize themselves in our culture and I think many americans respect that. I know I do. ;)

    Con't below............
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    One point I'll grant you is that Toyota should step up their warranty if not to compete with GM, then to compete with Hyundai which is the greater threat to both Toyota and Honda. Hyundai has made great strides in quality over the last few years and is very focused on competing with Toyota. Toyota has grown, some say to fast which has elicted some quality issues which I believe will be quickly corrected simply because it's their way. It's what they do. If Toyota doesn't think that the words quality/reliability are their bread and butter then they deserve their fate. One thing I am fairly certain of is that they crossed their T's and dotted their i's with this new truck. They can't afford to have issues. This truck must make a impression and must say quality and reliability. Toyota is already introducing this truck with killer financing rates. They've come to play and play hard. They want as many of these trucks on the road as quickly as possible proving themselves. That factory is going to be churning out trucks like crazy to meet that 200K goal.

    Well with what 3 straight years of having quality issues their track record hasn't been great as of late. They've been accused of hiding recalls for 8 years giving a false perception of flawlessness. I personally am rooting against them. I will always root for the home team. Our government has done way to much to help foreign company's invest here while doing nothing for struggling domestic manufactoring that want to stay here and provide good jobs. I don't see the same helping hand offered by the Japanese government to our manufactor's with trade barriers and I don't see Japanese tax dollars subsidizing U.S. corporations seeking a foot in the Japanese culture do you ????? This just isn't in the automobile industry either. Regardless, the Tundra is a good truck and I respect it. However your justifications for making it the best is based on 1 review. I think I've done enough to dispute that so I will leave it alone

    Have a good one ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    2007 GMC Sierra Denali

    The King of 1/2-Ton Pick-ups :shades:

    http://www.sportruck.com/news/2007-GMC-Sierra-Denali/index.htm

    This should satisfy you........ ;)

    Rocky
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    you've lost all credibility from me. - to gearhead1

    Then why the massive response?
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    Ford Lighting is no longer made but was easily whipped by the 6-speed manual 400 hp. SSR. The fastest lighting I ever saw ran 0-60 in 5.3 seconds. That was very fast back in the day. I will also dig up the past also with the 91' GMC Syclone that would out run the current and famous R/T. To put it simpily the GMC Syclone is the fastest truck ever made 0-60 in 4.4-4.6 and Quarter mile in the high 12's and was actually faster than that when a rainy mist was present which cooled the Syclones intercooled turbocharger. :shades:

    I expect based on past readings a SS Silverado with 500-600 hp. will be out maybe this fall ???? It shout out run the Ram R/T ;)

    Rocky
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    And how much will this bling machine cost, since you have to buy all the features to get the engine?
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    I guess his response got under my skin with such misinformation ;) I feel better now though. :D :P

    Rocky
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Ford Lighting is no longer made but was easily whipped by the 6-speed manual 400 hp. SSR. The fastest lighting I ever saw ran 0-60 in 5.3 seconds. That was very fast back in the day. I will also dig up the past also with the 91' GMC Syclone that would out run the current and famous R/T. To put it simpily the GMC Syclone is the fastest truck ever made 0-60 in 4.4-4.6 and Quarter mile in the high 12's and was actually faster than that when a rainy mist was present which cooled the Syclones intercooled turbocharger.

    This isn't apples to apples. Heck, I'm not sure the SSR is even the same food group as the rest of these. It was a convertible with a carpeted bed and no real "truck" capabilites.

    And a 1991 vehicle? I guess that's apples to decaying apples, since that's a truck that is 16 years old. At least then, the 4-speed automatic that comes standard in GMs and Fords wasn't outdated.

    I don't have irons in GM's or Toyota's fire, so I'm trying to be objective.

    The Lightning and Syclone are both irrelevant to this discussion, best I can tell.

    How much is that Denali looking to cost?
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    I haven't heard for sure. Some say the base will be $43-45K range. A loaded out one could run you close to $50K I would assume. The good thing is the consumer will be able to negotiate the cost down. I seriously doubt the Tundra buyer will be able to do that because of demand which is limited to 200K. ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    Doesn't the Tundra come standard with a 4-speed automatic ?

    Rocky
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    love the mixed metaphor
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    I will say it again their's more to a truck than just it's powertrain. the 5.3 is a proven high mileage, ultra reliable engine. If I was driving the 5.7 I'd be concerned with sludge issues and such since that is making news.

    While I know that you were just poking with a sharp stick - the 'sludge' issues were on 90's engines developed in the 80's. There have never been any reports - ever - of any of the new VVTi or dual VVTi engines ever experiencing any kind of sludge.

    It's in the past.

    I am sure that one or two of the vehicle mags will be doing some kind of head-to-head this spring, if it's not done already. It will be interesting. But having driven all 5 of them recently I can tell you that you heard it here first. The other 4 will be smoked in every category except, maybe, hauling where the top three are close.
    Acceleration ( free and under load )
    Braking
    Standard Equipment
    Safety equipment

    And to top that off... disregarding ridiculous incentives the Tundra is generally lower in price, similarly equipped.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    2007 GMC Sierra Denali

    The King of 1/2-Ton Pick-ups

    http://www.sportruck.com/news/2007-GMC-Sierra-Denali/index.htm

    This should satisfy you........

    Rocky


    Dated? Oct 2006 5 months before the Tundra beast hit the streets.... 5 months as No 1 is a good reign. :shades:
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    The 4.0L V6 and the 4.7L V8 both have 5 speed AT's. The 5.7L beast comes only one way with a 6 spd AT and the towing package is standard on all the V8's. No Charge

    GM/F are still stuck with a 4 spd AT. Plus, the other 4 charge anywhere from $350 to $1200 for a tow package.

    Again I think that this is intentional on GM's part in that it wants buyers to move up to the DuraMax. Ford OTOH has very few options given their current state. GM has the best diesel powertrain; Ford is suing its partner and supplier over its diesel powertrain.

    Ford currently is using an out-of-date engine as their primary 1/2 ton workhorse and it has no other option on the top end. Unless it has a miracle engine under wraps for the 2009 renewal it's in deep doo doo for the next 7-10 years. But given its financial state where is the money going to come from to develop such a miracle engine. It needs to do cars in the worst way and it needs to get the new crossover Explorer to market tomorrow. All the while it's burning through $20 Million every single day ( that is it's sending out $20 Million more every day than it takes in ). It may have to live off a very loyal fan base like the Red Sox did for the foreseeable future.
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    While I know that you were just poking with a sharp stick - the 'sludge' issues were on 90's engines developed in the 80's. There have never been any reports - ever - of any of the new VVTi or dual VVTi engines ever experiencing any kind of sludge.

    It's in the past.


    Kd, that was a sharp stick. I'm sorry :blush:

    I am sure that one or two of the vehicle mags will be doing some kind of head-to-head this spring, if it's not done already. It will be interesting.

    Yeah, it will be interesting. My prediction is the 5.7 vs. 5.3 will win. I can see and understand that. If they use a 6.0 vs. 5.7 that might make it close enough to give the Silverado a fighting chance. ;)

    But having driven all 5 of them recently I can tell you that you heard it here first. The other 4 will be smoked in every category except, maybe, hauling where the top three are close.
    Acceleration ( free and under load )
    Braking
    Standard Equipment
    Safety equipment


    So you've test driven all the 07's ???? Like the Tundra, Silverado, Titan, F-150, Ram Hemi, Ridgeline, Sierra =7, right ????

    Can you give more details ????

    And to top that off... disregarding ridiculous incentives the Tundra is generally lower in price, similarly equipped.

    Yeah, they are pretty close. I however know people that are paying close to invoice on the GMers. If that is true then the Silverado, IMHO will be the better deal if people are able to negotiate $3-4K off w/ $1K incentive. A co-worker was only able to get $1500 off but that was like almost 2 months ago. GM, has a promotion going on now where you can get $1K off for GM loyalty. I haven't seen very many new trucks on the lots down here because they are red hot !!!!

    Rocky
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