Subaru Crew Problems & Solutions

girlwhogolfs

Mike, you must work for a dealership. Elderly women do get ripped off as do women in general. She could have went to her local auto parts store and got the battery for 50 bucks and installed FREE! Dealerships feed on people who do not have car knowledge. Christine.

paisan

Nope I don't, however, if you want a service you have to pay for it. $50 for a battery is pretty in-expensive. The cheapest I've seen is about $60 at Walmart, and I'd have to put it in myself. Not sure where you live that you can get a battery installed for $50!!!

Expect to pay more at the dealer, that's always the case, just like if you get anything repaired by the manufacturer you are going to pay more.

-mike

xwesx

Typical battery around here (for a Subaru) is between $70 and $90 depending on the CCA desired (I say more is better in a cold climate!). The one time I had a service shop replace my battery was when I took it there to get the alternator tested. They said the battery was bad and that they could not test the alternator unless it was changed out. I told them to put a test battery on it to tell me if the alternator was bad - but get this - they "do not have test batteries." What a bunch of crap that was. So, basically, they wanted to charge me for a diagnostic service ($85) when I came to get the car, but yet they had not even done the work I told them to do. So, they did want to charge $60 for installing the battery but I just told them that they could either get $165 for the battery and diagnostic, or $0 for being incompetent fools. They opted for the $165 and I did have a bum alternator, which I purchased at NAPA, and had installed in about 20 minutes time. In retrospect, I should have just purchased the alternator first and skipped the diagnostic. :sick:

samiam_68

$140 is normal. Figure $70 for the battery and $70-90 for 1 hours worth of labor. I'm not sure why you take issue with such a price.


It takes me only about 10-15 minutes to change a battery, and I'm not a mechanic, i.e. I have to get my tools out, find the right size wrench / socket, and clean up and put everything away afterwards. One hour of labor to change a battery in a shop?

paisan

I don't know any shop that charges less than 1 hr of labor. You also don't pay insurance, overhead, etc. etc. What I'm saying is that one shouldn't be suprised at the price, as it's not "outrageous".

I don't hear you complain about McDonalds charging $2.00 for a Large Coke which costs $0.25 for the cup, $0.05 for the syrup, and $0.10 for the carbonated water and about 10 seconds of labor!

-mike

samiam_68

I don't hear you complain about McDonalds charging $2.00 for a Large Coke which costs $0.25 for the cup, $0.05 for the syrup, and $0.10 for the carbonated water and about 10 seconds of labor!


I don't complain because:
A) I don't eat at McDonalds.
Fast food places don't pray on little old ladies.
C) Even at $2 a Coke, these places are still very cheap to get a meal at.
D) All of the above.

Answer: D
:surprise:

paisan

Anywhere you eat or drink is ripping you off on the drink side of things. I used McDonalds as an example. Heck even retail I can get a 2 liter of coke for $0.89

I don't see how you feel that the battery was a ripoff. You are just wrong. You have to pay for 1hr of labor and $70 for a battery from a dealer is NOT outrageous.

-mike

jfl

I've never gotten just inserts for my Legacy. I go to Walmart and get ANCO mounted blades. Two different lengths. Just unhook them at the wiper arm. Less than $5 each.

I think it's a pain to remove the bugs, fit the track onto the spring bar, sliding it down, hoping it doesn't hang up somewhere, fitting it to the next holder...

Besides you're often sold two inserts the same length!

Jim

ladywclass

and don't get me started about the prices for a drink and popcorn at a movie theater!

ebony5

I got my wiper blades for my '96 OBW through subarupartsforyou.com installed them myself and saved some money. Also Tirerack has had a sale on blades but I do not know if it is still in effect .

samiam_68

Dealers are able to charge labor in either 6 or 15 minute increments. There is NO WAY that a battery takes an hour to install. A zoo monkey with a wrench can do it in less than an hour. Hence, $140 = rip-off.

You might have an argument if the battery was actually superior in some way, but it's POS Subaru OEM junk. A DieHard Gold that will last twice as long and has 50% more CCAs will cost less than $100 installed.

The only decent value at a dealer is a sub $30 oil change. Everything else - hold on to your wallet!
:sick:

paisan

ladywclass, I agree on the movie theater thing, that's why I rarely ever go to the movies. I vote with my wallet rather than complain about it.

-mike

paisan

Every dealer and shop I've ever dealt with charges 1hr of labor as a min rate, no matter how long it takes to do the job. It's simply not worth their time to stock the parts and have the labor on hand to work on your car for 15 min. They also usually use a book which tells them how much to charge.

As for the OEM battery being sub-par, you may be right, you may be wrong, however you are always going to pay more for an OEM component than an aftermarket component. That's just how it is, same goes for nuts and bolts from the dealer, and tires, and wipers, and oil changes, and everything else at the dealer.

As a result I suggest you not go to the dealer then we don't have to listen to you complain about how it's so expensive, and if everyone else feels the way you do, they'll go out of business.

-mike

PS: I never go to a dealer for anything but warranty work, although recently paid $90 to get my front sway bar tightened when I brought it in for a noise in the front end that I thought would be under warranty. It happens, but I'm not fretting over $90 which was 1 hrs worth of labor.

samiam_68

I'm not complaining - I merely stated that dealers take advantage of women and the elderly. Not all, but most do. I'm sure there are some honest ones out there, but those are exceptions.

I almost always take my business to the dealer, but I still have to scrutinize everything they're trying to peddle to me as part of their service packages, and only choose what is really necessary. People who don't know better, get fleeced.

You, on the other hand, are defending these practices, while, you yourself don't go to dealers for service. If you're so concerned about their profits, then you need to go to them for service more often and give them more of your hard-earned money.

P.S. I'm done with this discussion as I think it has been beaten to death. You have your opinions, I have mine. If you want to keep arguing, you'll have to find someone else.

paisan

My point is that they are not taking advantage of women and elderly. They are in business to make money, they are not a non-profit organization, and as such consumers must educate themselves to prevent themselves from being taken advantage of. Why do you specify women? I know a lot of women who know a TON more about cars than men. I also know lots of "elderly" who scrutinize their bills far more than rich yuppie 20-30somethings who just pay and don't care.

-mike

ladywclass

you know what? Most people will take advantage of whomever they can ... it's not just women and elderly ... if I don't educate myself about what is going on, then I deserve whatever I end up with ....

fibber2

I'm not sure that I would always say 'take advantage'. We live in a services society. You can find someone who will provide labor for any task you could possibly imagine, but expect to pay thru the nose for most of it. Mike is right, in that the cost of running a business is high. To cover the taxes, land, building, utilities, insurance, etc., most technical business figure that the true cost of an employee is up to 3x what they pay in salaries. So a $50k/yr technician needs to get charged out at $75/hr to make it work. Ultimately, it becomes the burden of the consumer to decide what services we wish to pay for outright, shop around for, and what we are willing to learn how to do on our own.

Is $80/hr shop time fair or a ripoff? Depends on the repair type, and what else is going on in my life at the time. I change the battery in my wife's van last weekend when I got back from a trip. Paid $60 for a better battery than the OEM, but it took a total of 2 hours including the 40 miles of driving to get the battery, two stops as the first store was out of that size, etc. So what was the real cost? My wife could not have done it. Just lifting the battery out of the shell it was held in took a terminal strap, move of the cruise control cable routed over it, and strained my back. If I had been away longer, it would have been a tow as well as shop time. Last spring I did brakes on the OBW, but in the fall I let Honda do brakes on the van. No time available. It is all about tradeoffs...

john176

Hello! I'm new here. I have a 2000 Forester with 106,000 miles. We've been noticing strange symptoms, which have been checked out at 3 different reputable places. The last place, a transmission center, says they're all tied to an "internal differential" problem, and we're going to have to get a whole new rebuilt transmission for $2900.00. But others I've talked to by phone say the symptoms sound like axle problems. I want to avoid paying $2900.00 only to find it doesn't solve the problems and then having to fix the axle. The only 2 symptoms we are having are: When you first start driving the car in the morning, there is a loud knocking/ticking sound that occurs while the tires are straightening out AFTER a turn (it rarely makes the sound while the while is turned). The other symptoms is a feeling, at higher speeds (40 or higher), that the wheels are going to fly off--it feels "loose" and wobbly, as if you're driving over a very bumpy road. The engine sounds good, no check engine light, no other symptoms but these two. Does this sound like an axle problem or differential/transmission? They claim the boots all look perfect from the outside. The tires are excellent, in good alignment, and have been recently rotated. Thanks for any advice! It doesn't seem like I should have to replace a transmission on a fairly young Subaru!

c_hunter

Does not sound like trans to me.

Has a Subaru dealer looked at it?

ateixeira

Put it in neutral. If the problems occurs when you are coasting it is not the tranny.

Should be easy enough to find out.

-juice

ateixeira

A battery should be a pretty routine swap, but maybe they are more thorough and spray that red stuff on the terminals, reset the alarm and/or keyless entry system, or test the alternator (and charging system) in the process.

We shouldn't assume they're ripping off little old ladies if they're actually doing all of the above.

Shoot, my dealer charges $85 to read a diagnostic code. That takes me about 30 seconds with my cheapie Actron OBD2 scanner.

-juice

solowalker

if you have an "internal Differential" problem, why whould they recommend a rebuilt transmission?
I have a 2000 forester S with 104,000 and It's mechanically perfect... I just bought a new Outlander and am now selling the Forester privately for $6,700...($2900 for a rebuilt tranny is almost half the cost of a good used forester}
I think they want to rip you off..I would drive with the pesky noise until the problem defines itself more clearly..

samiam_68

Did you check all the lug nuts? Could be loose, or could be over-tightened. I would retorque them all to specs with a clicker torque wrench and see if the problem goes away.

xwesx

That is strange. Almost points more toward a problem in the steering system than the drive system. Maybe bad ball joint(s) in the tie rods. I know that my old '69 Econoline has a worn out ball joint in the steering and its symptoms are similar, though not as consistent, as what you are describing.

If it was a differential problem, I would expect to see the symptoms appear more readily under high-stress situations, like while accelerating or actively turning in a tight radius. Driving straight down a highway is not high-stress. As for transmission, it does not sound like that at all.

FWIW, the center differential lives in the same housing as the transmission, so a full replacement entails replacement of both units. It is spendy, so should not be considered lightly.

paisan

It sounds more like a wheel bearing, ball joint, tie rod end type of sound from your description. Also doesn't sound like an axle.

-mike

john176

Thanks, everybody--you all have been extremely helpful. I'm glad we didn't tell them to go ahead. I will take it to a Subaru dealership and see what they find out. I printed all these responses for reference. Thanks again! Glad I found this place!
-John

john176

Thanks for your reply. Actually, they did put it in neutral and found that the vibration stopped entirely, which is why they thought it was a differential problem. Do you agree?

-John

paisan

How about under load or not under load?

-mike

ateixeira

I agree more broadly that it is an issue with the suspension, and not the trans.

But reading back you said MY2000, and the wheel bearings on those were fragile (up until MY2003). So the most likely culprit is your wheel bearings.

Sorry the pic is tiny, it's the only one I could hot-link:



It was not an uncommon fix, even for people here on Edmunds.

-juice

cwleitz

Hi everyone. I did some searching and haven't found anyone with these problems, so I thought I'd post here.

I have a 2002 WRX with interior electronics that seem to be slowly degrading. This fall, my dashboard clock died. Actually, it was working intermittently for a few weeks, but now the display is almost always blank (once in a blue moon, it will show the correct time for a few seconds). Since this problem has apparently happened to others (I found a few mentions on this on NASIOC), and it seemed to be an isolated problem, I just shrugged and let it go.

A few weeks later, I noticed that the backlight on the foglight button (not the indicator light, but the light that illuminates the button when the headlights are on) was no longer functioning. Then, a few weeks after that, I found that my power socket (cigarette lighter) wasn't working. Finally, yesterday, I discovered that my power mirrors are not functioning. Now, every time I start the car, I wonder what else will go.

I plan to take the car in to the shop, but I was looking for some possible diagnoses that I could perhaps check on my own first. Has anyone experienced similar problems? Even though the car is drivable, I'm worried that I will discover more problems down the road that could be more serious.

questj

I just had a bulb go on my 04 Forester fog lights. Does anyone have a write up on how to remove the necessary parts to get access at the bulb? Pictures would be great too. I'm guessing you have to go at it from underneath the car by removing the splash guards?

Thanks

Jeff

leo2633

I've changed the backlight and indicator bulbs on several switches on my 2001 Forester and my wife's 2003 Outback, both of which were the same. The part number for these bulbs is 83426AA040. I don't know if you can get these aftermarket or not, but I bought them from my Subaru dealer. Anyway, to remove the switch, insert a small, thin bladed screwdriver along the bottom edge of the switch. This should free the lower locking tab, allowing you to pull out the switch. Disconnect the wiring harness from the back of the swich, being careful not to let the harness fall into the swich opening. You will notice two small, flat-based bulbs in the side of the switch body. One is for illumination (backlight) when the lights are turned on and the other is to indicate that the accessory (fog lights, cruise control or windshield deicer) is activated. You can determine which bulb is which by their position relative to the switch body. Use a flat bladed screwdriver to gently turn the bulb about 1/8 turn counterclockwise. This will unlock the bulb, but you may have to ease it out with a small nail or something similar (I used a metal pick). Insert the new bulb, making sure that the two locking tabs enter into the recesses in the switch body, then gently turn the bulb about 1/8 turn clockwise. Reconnect the wiring harness and pop the switch back into the dash until it snaps in place.

I hope this helps.

Len

c_hunter

Have you had this car since it was new? If it was used, I am wondering if there were any mods done that would perhaps have dislodged or loosened a harness connector somewhere.

On the lighter socket and mirrors, I would check the relevant fuses (in car and under the hood as applicable) if you haven't already.

Len gave some good advice on the bulb, which is probably an isolated problem.

Let us know if you figure anything out.

Craig

paisan

Along the same lines, if this wasn't a new purchase, these symptoms are those of possible flood vehicle with a wiring harness corroding somewhere.

-mike

nw_john

05 Forester automatic. About 28k. Bought used at about 20k. Hard start after about 4-hours sitting. Cranks over fine, but doesn't start for a couple of seconds. Starts up fine in the morning or if left for a longer (or shorter) period of time.

Also, when cold it downshifts abruptly. No problem when warmed up. Will new plugs and transmission flush at the 30k service help? Any other solutions? Thanks.

c_hunter

Be sure to let the fuel pump run before cranking the engine, it will make a difference. Turn the key to on, listen for the fuel pump to run and shut off, then crank the engine. Should fire right up consistently every time.

xwesx

Abrupt shifting when cold is a normal trait of the AT.

sixtystacks

I have a 2002 Outback Sport (Impreza 2.5) my mechanic (who I trust) says that I need to replace my engine. It only has ~56k on it but I bought it in July 2001 so it is over 5 years (technically off warranty). He is a Subaru aficionado and says the rods are knocking and warns me not to drive it. Suggestions?

caliberchic

Get a few more opinions from certified mechanics. It stinks you'd have to replace the engine but if you trust your mechanic and he knows his stuff he's probably right.

Sorry

c_hunter

Have not heard of "rod knock" before on Subarus. He could mean "piston slap", but I am sure he would have used that term specifically if he was a Subaru expert. Piston slap is a known problem with some Subarus, but it may not be an issue if it goes away after the engine warms up.

By the way, the fix for piston slap does not require an engine replacement, just a minor rebuild to install new pistons. On an 01 with only 56K miles, I would not expect any trouble that would require a complete engine replacement. The whole thing sounds fishy to me.

Please describe the exact symptoms so that we can give an independent opinion here.

sixtystacks

Thanks for the reply. Actually it is an '02 Outback Sport that I bought in July '01, on short notice, because my '90 Civic SI was stolen out of my driveway! I live in Minnesota normally but am spending the winter in Florida.

Ok. First off I'm not really mechanical but I am interested in understanding. The car has always had the oil changed regularly and I have had the front brakes done that is about it. I don't drive it hard.

The sound that we are talking about sounds kind of like a diesel truck sound. But I have heard it for a long time (long being 5000 miles or so; maybe a bit less). But driving in Minnesota in the cold, at startup-it didn't really surprise me- I always just attributed it to it being cold. It doesn't totally go away after it is warmed up either but I didn't act on it because seemed to be working fine. I drove it down here last month - performance and fuel efficiency seemed normal. About 10 days ago I came out to my car and the battery was totally dead. I jumped and took it to Autozone to have them test the battery because I had just replaced it in Minnesota in September. They said the battery was fine but the machine said it was the alternator. When I took it to my local guy and told him I think I need a new alternator - he hooked up and said the alternator was fine (I mentioned he was honest). The installed CD had always run hot (second one) and was recently retaining a fluorescent backlight even when I turned the car off so I pulled the radio fuse just to make sure that wasn't somehow draining the battery at night. A few days later - totally dead again. Took it to my guy again and asked him to find out where the drain was coming from. When he called back he said he hadn't done anything with the drain because he was more concerned with the engine noise which he attributed to the 'rods'. He suggests we replace the engine; said it would be about $3000 (1500 labor).

sixtystacks

Again, the sound is kind of like a diesel truck; when I rev the knocks rev. It probably is a bit louder than it used to be.
My guy was going to call around and see about engines and we were going to talk today. This all happened on Friday afternoon - I just left the car because I can get by temporarily without it and he kind of scared me with visions of rods through blocks etc. But I called SOA and explained the situation and they said they would open a case number but it was true that I was out of warranty by 6 months (not mileage) - they said if I took it to a dealer that would see if they could work some 'good will' but it didn't sound like they would cut me much slack. Like I said I have changed the oil regularly so I don't think I can be faulted for lack of mainenance - I mean what else needs to be done to an engine under 60K?? Arrghh

sixtystacks

Excuse this stream of consciousness but....I will ask my guy but I can't believe engines are replaced just based on noise. While the engine is a 'black hole' to me..would should I expect my mechanic to have done to objectively confirm his diagnosis. Wouldn't it be worth paying him to take off the 'cover' (probably not what it is called I'm sure) and see the worn out rod??? Or is it not that easy...

c_hunter

Good move to call SOA. They often make a goodwill gesture in cases like this, so it's worth pursuing with them through a Subaru dealer. They covered a $1200 clutch replacement on my parent's car a few years back.

Get recommendations for a good Subaru dealer in your area, and have them take a look.

c_hunter

I probably would not let the other guy work on the car anymore -- explain to him that SOA may cover it and you need to have a dealership look at it. I honestly think he made a huge leap by suggesting an engine replacement. If it is indeed piston slap, Subaru will be able to do a simpler fix -- by replacing only the pistons that have the issue.

ateixeira

Agree on letting the fuel pump prime, and if that fails it's probably time for new spark plugs and spark plug wires. 30k is about right for those, and you're close enough.

-juice

sixtystacks

Thanx hunter. I will take to a local dealer and let you know the outcome.

scrappy44

Hi All,

My wife and I just bought a 2003 Forester with only 19K miles on it. Not having owned a Subaru before, we're slowly getting used to the quirks and noises. As for the "diesel truck" sound that another poster described when starting cold--we've had two dealers tell us it was "a normal operating condition" caused by changes to the engine from 2002 to 2005 or so. Sounded fishy to me, but other owners have reported the same experience (with their cars, and at their dealers.)

Our biq question now: the car has developed a loud buzz when accelerating. You can somtimes hear it when turning and first starting it in the morning as well. But its loudest when hitting the gas. Sounds metallic, like a heat shield vibrating.

Anyone have any ideas? Thanks.

c_hunter

Follow your instincts and look for something loose that might be vibrating. You can probably poke around the engine bay and under the car to see if any of the exhaust shielding is loose, or pressing against something else. Often, you can bend it out of the way or snug it down. Good luck!

fibber2

Believe me, engine sounds like this made me question everything I was told as well. '02 OBW, now 5.5 yrs old, with 45k miles. Should have heard it start up tonight (10'F) at work! Clack clack clack as I drove away! Quiet as can be 5 minutes later.

Steve