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Pontiac Grand Prix 2004 Redesign Questions & Comments

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  • Due to the fact that the Firebird's price climbed the mountain (and ultimately jumped itself to its own death), i think its awesome that Pontiac has chosen the Grand Prix to step to the plate and bat cleanup!! I own a '99 full size, black Prix SE, and I dont see a car built by Pontiac thats better qualified to take the reigns......By muscleing it up to form the GTO, it should fill the gaping hole in the Pontiac lineup. SO that said, anyone hear or read what i read last week?? The Camaro's replacement is going to be a muscled up, supercharged version of the 2005 model Cavalier.....read it in Motor Trend in the intro for the 2003 Cav.....lemme know, i'd like to see a pic of that like u wouldnt believe..... i wonder what make or model is due for drastic change....maybe the old beretta? or the lumina..send me pics if ya find anything
  • wgrwgr Posts: 127
    Anyone know the approx price range for the 04 ?

    Also, is the 04 front or rear drive ?

    Sorry to ask such basic questions, but I just came across this new car.
  • If you go to the GM Fleet site you can see a relatively complete ordering guide for the '04 Grand Prix. Click on "print book" and select it. I was having trouble getting this to work in IE, but it definitely works in Netscape, so use that if you have it.


    -Andrew L

  • wgrwgr Posts: 127
    Thanks for the site. It printed fine.
  • richm4richm4 Posts: 169
    Thanks for the heads-up on the site!

    Does anyone know how good the Monsoon speakers sound ? I was hoping the Bose stereo was going to be offered.
  • Speaker sound is a hard for one person to guide another. I know I have seen posts about disappoinment with some Bose systems. Monsoon line of speakers are offered by a couple manufacturers (VW I think along with GM) (Even make computer speakers). I believe it just away around having to pay for the use of Dr. Bose's name. Should be acceptable fo rth enew GP. (Bose speaker owner since 1979 for home system and Wave Radio owner)
  • Sounds real nice. I would love to retrofit TAC Shift and Stabilitrak. I already have a lot more power, and will probably eventually put in a Intense trans with 3:69 final drive and maybe a QUAIFE differential:)
  • richm4richm4 Posts: 169
    The more I look at the new GP, the more disappointed I am getting, especially the rear end with that teeny tiny spoiler and the cheap and cluttered looking dash.

    The Bonneville GXP, on the other hand, that's a car with killer good looks. I really wish it was coming out this year. I can't wait another 15 months before getting a new car.
  • A little bit about where I can help. I work for a company which designs and manufactures the interior. I'm in tune with the options and have driven a production vehicle. To date GM Oshawa has built approx. 120 salable vehicles.
  • richm4richm4 Posts: 169
    Hey everyone,

    Check out www.grandprix.net. There are dozens of real production pictures there.
  • How exactly does this work? Is it just another manumatic or is it more like a sequential? I have read that it has downshift protection - I assume that this means it will not let you downshift at high rpms. I also understand that it has "intermediate gear hold' - what is this? And what does second gear start mean?
  • Her is my understanding:

    TACSHIFT is part of the competition package (compg) for the Grandprix GTP. TACSHIFT is a control system for the 4 speed electronically controlled automatic transmission in the GTP. This transmission features a lock-up and possibly high stall torque converter with an available 3.29:1 final drive ratio.

    TACSHIFT allows the driver to manually select gears, using steering wheel mounted upshift and downshift buttons. TACSHIFT also support full automatic operation, with performance and regular modes. Performance mode offers firmer shifts and higher shift points.

    TACSHIFT in manual mode will not automatically upshift or downshift regardless of RPM. The automatic mode will also hold a gear through a corner (it detecting cornering using stabilitrak sensors for yaw rate and lateral acceleration), to prevent unsettling the car and keep it in the powerband for accelerating out the exist.

    The downshift protection will either prevent or delay a downshift if doing so would put the engine at or above the redline. I am not sure if it simply ignores such a request, or queues it up until speeds have dropped to a point where the shift is safe.

    A "higher" final drive ratio means more torque in every gear through out the power band. The torque to the ground is a result of torque form engine times gear ratio times final drive ratio - similar to ten speed or 18 speed bike (pedals, big gear, small gear).

    A lock-up torque converter directly connects engine and transmission under heavy acceleration - which reduces the loss of transmitting power through transmission fluid. The current grandprix also has a lock-up torque converter.

    A high speed torque converter allows the engine to rev higher from a stop before engaging gear, creating a harder launch and better 0-60 and 1/4 times (assuming sufficient traction). The time the car takes from pressing the car to actually reaching speed may be the same or slower, but the time from when it begins to move is faster because engine revs while at a stop putting it further into its powerband and builds up kinetic energy to transfer into speed.
  • orwoodyorwoody Posts: 269
    Has anyone seen any hints from Pontiac/GM where they are planning to price the 2004 GTP and the competition package? From the URL links given previously and following some of the updates I for one am building up anticipation. I really loved my 2000 GTP and the extra hp plus the Comp package has me looking forward....but I'm hoping the ceiling won't exceed $30k for a loaded GTP with Comp package.
  • My guess is that the 04 GP pricing will be in line with that of the current model. To me it looks as though the SE will be dropped and there will be a GT1 (SE replacement) and a GT2 (current GT) and then the GTP and the GTP with comp package. I would imagine that the comp package will be pushing the $30k mark.
  • wgrwgr Posts: 127
    Somewhere over the weekend I saw a price range of 24,000 - 29,000. I can not find it again, but I believe it might have been in the January Motor Trend I just got at home. Anyone else see this ?
  • ruskiruski Posts: 1,566
    that's the territory of Acura TL-S, Infiniti G35, Infiniti I35... Very nice cars with high power and more luxury-oriented too.
  • wgrwgr Posts: 127
    I agree. If that is the price, I do not see how it can compete with the cars you mentioned. I was hoping (foolishly) that GM would undercut the competition, especially due to the perceived difference in build quality. Once they have a track record of equal quality, then they can go for the higher prices.
  • Does anyone know if they are going to continue making the Bonneville for 2004? Because that pricing seems almost on the level with it. It wouldn't make sense to have two Pontiac sedans in the same price range.

    -Andrew L
  • I think the future of the Bonneville is still undecided, but they will still be producing them in 04. The Bonneville GXP is slated to be an 04 model available in about a year from now.
  • wgrwgr Posts: 127
    That baby has to be in the lower to mid $30's. It seems like every car I am interested in is pricing me out.
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    the current GP goes up to $27K or somewhere in that range. I dont know why anyone would think the '04 GO would be any cheaper than that. A car that offers 260hp isnt going to be cheap regardless of who makes it. The damn accord almost goes to $30K if you add all the options so I dont see why the GP cant do the same. YOu cant expect to get a fully loaded car like that for $25K.
  • ruskiruski Posts: 1,566
    Yeah, but Accord also has higher perceived quality.
  • orwoodyorwoody Posts: 269
    Let's Hope GM thinks long and hard about the pricing... ruski has an excellent point. Perceived quality and reliability have really hurt GM and other domestic auto sales. So if the GP pushes to the $30k range; 260hp, stabiliTrac, etc... even if the competition has less features, in that price range a lot of folks are going to look at the Acura, Maxima, G35, IS300... and may walk away from or not give the GP a second glance. Myself included... I loved my 2000 GTP but if the $ delta is only $1k-$2k I'm going to be really torn between a 2004 GTP and a G35.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Posts: 2,287
    Be aware the new Maxima comes out this coming spring. Nissan has already said there will be a larger price gap between it and a loaded Altima, which sure sounds to be a MAJOR price increase.

    Also, most GP buyers never even look at imports. I doubt that changes.
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    the car is not overpriced compared to the midsize competition. This car is not going to cost as much as a G35 or an IS300. fully loaded it should be close to 30K which is where those two cars start, I dont think it will outperform a RD G35 but it will definitely leave the IS300 in the dust. I dont think the GP is perceived as a low quality car anyway. The interior may be cheap, but I think the new one will improve that considerably.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Posts: 2,287
    Well, having owned a 98 GTP and a 00 Impala LS, I can say this: GM interiors have nowhere to go but up. Long-lasting, durable but SCREAM cheap!

    The ONLY current exception seems to be Cadillac.
  • orwoodyorwoody Posts: 269
    I was surfing and found these photos posted by someone who shot them at the 2002 SEMA show in November. There is a mix of cars but many are of the 2004 GTP.


    http://new.clubgp.com/sema2002/

  • mariner7mariner7 Posts: 509
    GP will not be compared to G35/IS300/TL. Thats job of Cadillac and CTS. Its rivals will be Altima/Accord. Even before its out of the gate, here are just some of its disadvantages.

    1) The 2 A's are built on all new platforms, GP platform is at least 10-12 year old. Sorry, auto tech has moved on the last decade, the difference will be noticeable.

    2) The A's engines are as powerful w/o supercharger. Sorry, auto tech has moved on...

    3) GP might be more expensive than the A's.

    The A's engines are detuned versions of engines in the G35/TL. Why cant GM put a detuned version of the CTS new 3.6L/250hp in GP? While their at it, might as well give it a new improved platform.

    Its half baked attempts like this that causes GM to lose all of the 1 on 1 battles when it comes up against the imports.
  • wgrwgr Posts: 127
    I agree completely. By the time GM catches up to the current Japanese technology and pricing, another 3 or more years will have gone by and they will still be behind. At the rate they are going, they will never catch up - Lutz or no Lutz.
  • "1) The 2 A's are built on all new platforms,"

    AFAICT, the Accord is on the same chassis as last (several) years.

    "GP platform is at least 10-12 year old."

    The GP was all new in 96.

    Not that it matters, they're both good daily drivers.

    "2) The A's engines are as powerful w/o supercharger. Sorry, auto tech has moved on..."

    Who cares!?, the GTP's engine will be more powerful PERIOD. I for one an disappointed in Nissan & Honda, in that they can't even best GM's motor like GM's motor did to Nissan's & Honda's in 96 (with a 50hp advantage).

    "3) GP might be more expensive than the A's."

    Well atleast that's right... "might".

    "Why cant GM put a detuned version of the CTS new 3.6L/250hp in GP?"

    Why? the new motor will be 260hp/280tq. More than the A's. The current GP's motor is already "detuned", and is readily capable of making substantially more HP with minor changes.
This discussion has been closed.