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Pontiac Grand Prix 2004 Redesign Questions & Comments

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Comments

  • richm4richm4 Posts: 169
    I'm a life long GM owner and a current owner of a 98 Grand Prix GT. I must admit I was entralled with the new Accord V6 after test driving one recently. Although the GP is more sporty looking, the engine and trans in the Accord have been improved greatly this year to 240 HP. Great low end torque, just as I'm accustomed to in my GP.

    I am finally tiring of the cheap looking interiors in all GM products, except for perhaps Cadillac. The Accord interior seems almost Lexus-like. As much as I really want to stay with GM, partially due to GMS pricing and GM Card Rebates, I am nearing a decision I never thought I'd be making -- Buying Japanse.
          
    I'm hoping the 2004 GP knocks my socks off at the Auto show in February, but I doubt it.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Posts: 2,287
    Well, Lutz SAYS GM is improving the interiors....but this is from the man who was in charge of deleting the indicators and lights on the shifter of my beloved Impala line, getting rid of the changeholder, omitting the lock on the glovebox door, omitting the light in the glovebox, omitting the seatback pocket on the driver's side, and on and on...

    Enough decontenting already...I may just buy a Mazda6 this time and be done with it.

    I, too, had a 98 GTP. I loved EVERYTHING about it except the headlights which constantly fogged with moisture, the backseat shoulderbelt portion of the seatbelts which constantly tightened and tightened and tightened, nearly strangling riders, and the cheapo interior which looked ratty, even when new.

    Also, a car of the GTP's caliber (or the Impala LS's) should have automatic climate control, at least as an option.
  • richm4richm4 Posts: 169
    John - I have the same fogging problems on my headlights too, although it really hasn't bothered me much. For the most part, it's been a good reliable car.

    Yeah, I agree Pontiac interior have an especially cheapo look to them, especially their leather. I would rather have a Chevy-look to the interior than the Pontiac-look.

    If the 2004 GP interior looks as bad in person as the pictures I've seen posted on the Web, I'll probably be looking at purchasing either a CTS, Accura, Accord, or ES300. And the CTS interior isn't anything to write home about, but at least it's a slight improvement over the other GM cars. Deville and Seville are nice inside, but cost, heavy depreciation and quality are steering me away from them.
  • mariner7mariner7 Posts: 509
    W. Buffett says in the long term the market is always right. In the long term, GM & Ford have been losing market equity and market share, they must be doing something wrong. Ford is trying to set things right with the new 500: new platform, new 3.5 DOHC engine. I dont see same commitment from GM. I'm sure when the 500 comes out, Ford will leapfrog GM in that market segment. Except for Caddy, GM is still counting beans and cutting corners!
  • I saw the 04 GP at the pontiac POCI show in charleston W.V.and I personally thought it was gorgeous. The interior if they actually sell it that way was as good as any lexus I"ve seen.I went to the Miami auto show hoping to see it again but was disapointed to see the 03's instead.The interiors dont look as cheap as most others think they look but the 04 was way better.Just my opinion but ofcourse your right about perception.I tend to blame unions more than the beancounters though.
  • mariner7mariner7 Posts: 509
    I've to disagree with you. Remember the GM/Toyota joint venture in Fremont, CA. The plant that used to make Corolla/Nova, and now makes Matrix/Vibe. That plant is unionized, and those cars did and do pretty well in quality.

    I remember when all Japanese cars were imported, many, including some in Detroit executive suits (conveniently enough), blamed the N/A workers when the Detroit products didn't measure up. Now when most Japanese cars are made here with American workers, it must be the unionized workers' fault. The one constant: the bean counters have been in control the whole time!
  • orwoodyorwoody Posts: 269
    Here is a web site link that contains Pontiac's specs/options... as they sit now with the 2004 GP. They update it periodically.

    At the site click on Print Book, then select 2004 Grand Prix from the drop down.

    You can chose by section or click on Print Model to get the entire document. You'll need Acrobat reader to open the document. Click on Print and it will open the document.


    http://eogld.ecomm.gm.com/NASApp/domestic/vehiclesel.jsp?regionID=1&divisionID=7#


    on a personal note, I feel that in the past most "Japanese" origin autos have had superior fit and finish cosmetically initially. But I've seen a number of Camrys, Accords, Maximas, Acuras that look tattered after several years of use. From what I have seen in the last 10 years from Ford, GM and even Chrysler is quantum leaps in interior improvements. "Perception" is still impacting them and that will take years(if ever) to over come. On the contrary, some data I've seen leads me to believe many of the foreign models interior/exterior quality has backtracked a tad.(some on models built here and also on models imported)
    I believe that a lot of people's perception of "quality" is relative to what they are used to and what they read, what their friends think... I've got a brother that won't own anything but a Saab or a Volvo, everything else is junk to him.


    So drive 'em all and buy whichever one best meets your personal needs and tastes.

  • richm4richm4 Posts: 169
    Has anyone seen any 2004 brochures yet?

    I read on the Chicago Auto Show web site that the GP will start production right around the start of the Auto Show (Feb 14).

    I'm hoping some dealers have them in stock by late February.
  • orwoodyorwoody Posts: 269
    The only information I have seen says limited fleet availability in May and June, although GM started taking dealer and fleet orders in November. If they start limited production February/March it'd be April or May before they hit the lots. They will probably restrict production until summer to ramp down the 2003's.
    I signed up for the brochure request on the Pontiac Web site which now has a presentation on the 2004 GP. As far as I can tell it was only added to the site in the last few days... in my past experiences the cars start hitting the lots about the same time as limited brochures become available.
  • There are some on the roads where I live - all GM employee cars. They look pretty nice. I've seen about six or so.
  • mariner7mariner7 Posts: 509
    I don't think most perceptions come out of thin air. Most of them have bases in reality. Perceptions created by Madison Avenue don't last. Perceptions created by own experiences do last.

    I've had 2 cars, a Honda & Nissan, both engines passed 140K without any problem, and were as eager to rev then as new. The Nissan never fails me in anything, the dash looks in perfect condition. In fact everything looks in brand new condition.

    I remember my dad's old Chevys. The a/c's would not work after a few years. The dash would peel away. Seat covers would come apart at the seams. When cold, the engine would stall, usually right in middle of intersections.

    Reading the specs, I know in reality GP is not matching Atltima/Accord. GM's just trying to convince people that they are. I say to GM: same old, same old. In the long term, the market is always right, and perception is reality.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Posts: 2,287
    Interesting.

    Care to comment on my 2000 Impala LS which appears as new, has had ONE repair, a headlight switch, and has 111,000 miles?

    Or my 98 Pontiac GTP which had 77000 carefree miles on it when I traded it in three years ago for said Impala?

    Not fair to judge todays marques by 70's/80's crap. The Japanese cars from that era rusted away to nothing, for the most part.

    Things are better now. Thank heaven.
  • orwoodyorwoody Posts: 269
    FYI - I just saw an episode of Motorweek(Sat 01/04 on our PBS channel). They did a test drive and review of one of the new 2004 GTPs. Nice looking car and they were quite complimentary as to GM's new redesign visual and driving. Mentioned it "outclassed" the Accord, Camry... and they said that even with the Comp G option it should come in under $30k.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Posts: 2,287
    Hmmmm. The website says that Motorweek is not be shown til 24 Jan! You got an early taste!

    The teaser emails that GM is sending to former GP owners (like me) say this:

    **Pontiac Grand Prix is reborn for 2004. Taking the concept of the true driver's car to the next level, the thought arose: Might one car excel at everything? Check out the '04 Grand Prix online and the question magically answers itself. With power, torque and intensity. With an extraordinary handling system. Plus remarkable versatility and room. It's coming in late 2003. But it's waiting for you online right now.***

    Late 2003???
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    >>>Reading the specs, I know in reality GP is not matching Atltima/Accord. GM's just trying to convince people that they are. I say to GM: same old, same old. In the long term, the market is always right, and perception is reality. <<<

    What specs? GTP is faster 0-60 and 1/4 mile then the new V6 Accord. It stops shorter and outhandles it according to Car and Driver. Not to mention looking alot better then the Dull, Appliance, blend in with everything else look of the Accord. Car and Driver tested the skidpad of the Accord V6 at an embarassing .74g. Thats Towncar Territory. I've driven both cars. I have owned a 1997 and now a 2002 GTP. I have driven and ridden in my friends 2000 Accord. The GTP is fun to drive, I have gotten many compliments of "Nice car" though of course mine is modified, the Accord is dull and boring. Yes the accord has higher better resale, but I don't make a car buying decision on resale entirely, because all cars depreciate.

    As for interiors... whats up with the small radio buttons, lack of radio steering controls, no head up display, no BOSE, No Onstar and the glove compartment door that is awkard and nearly as high as the airbag. Not to mention the noisy slow 4 cylinder in the accord that you can actually feel it idling where at least the GP comes with a std V6 which is smoother and you don't feel it idling at a light or in park.

    My leftover new 2002 GTP coupe MSRP for $28,260 fully loaded. I got $3,000 off of it then GM's $3,000 rebate. I ended up paying $22,260, I feel a very good deal for what I got.

    You can't get a V6 Altima or V6 Accord loaded for $22,260. Try about $26,000 or higher. I went to 5 dif Nissan dealers they all told me their cost on a loaded V6 Altima was $25,500 and that I would have to do better. The V6 Accord coupe loaded they are selling for MSRP or higher, some had a $2k over MSRP. Which brought it to $30k or more. Sorry, not worth $7k more.

    The Accord and Atlima are NOT worth $4k more then what I paid for a GTP.
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    As for quality of the GP? My 1997 when I traded it in a few months ago still looked like brand new. Paint and interior. Engine/tranny still drove like new. All options worked perfectly. It didn't leak or burn a drop of oil. In fact the dealer though it was a 1999 or 2000. Only thing giving it away were the older style wheels. My interior held up well. Better then my friends 2000 Accord, that his seats are already starting to rip. But again, it depends on how you take care of your car. He really doesn't that well.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Posts: 2,287
    I owned a 98 GTP. I have driven many Accords. Yep, the Accord has a nicer interior. Yep, the Accord has higher resale. Hey, I might even spot you that the Accord has better reliablity, though nothing happened to my GTP in 77,000 miles of ownership.

    There is only one problem with the Accord in my opinion. And due to that problem, I will not buy one. You see, I have driven an Accord. And to me, the V-6 Accord is BORING. Terribly, interminably boring. Thanks, but no thanks.
  • richm4richm4 Posts: 169
    Not that I'm a foreign car lover or GM basher, especially since I own a 98 GP that I like very much, but the newly redesigned 2003 Accord's V6 is very powerful, indeed. Plus the Accord's interior puts the Pontiac's interior to shame.

    I'm hoping the interior of the new GP is much improved, as some reviews have indicated.
  • I just saw the new GTP at the auto show. It's been greatly improved and is an awesome car. The car is also much faster now thanks to the 3.29 gears and better supercharger.
  • orwoodyorwoody Posts: 269
    Here is a link I picked up on one of these forums a while back. The Car Connection has photos and blurbs on highlights from the major auto shows. Currently they are covering the Detroit and LA shows.


    http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=5650&sid=173&n=156

  • orwoodyorwoody Posts: 269
    I checked the Motorweek website today because I saw their review of the 2004 GTP on Saturday. Most of their comments are posted on the "car keys" link under the "inside track" at their website. I don't know how long they post each of the articles for, but I suspect they change weekly so I cut and pasted it here also.


    http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/carkeys/

     

    "2004 Pontiac Grand Prix

    3.8-liter V-6 w/ Eaton supercharger

    260-horsepower

    $23,000 - $30,000


    While trucks are king, General Motors is making it clear that it's still a car company at heart, as its prepares a complete overhaul of its mid-size sedan lineup. First out of the gate, the 2004 Pontiac Grand Prix.


    Looking nearly identical to the G-Force show car, the '04 Grand Prix is largely all-new. The biggest visual change is the lack of body cladding, and the cleaner and sharper coupe-like profile. The wide track look is more hunkered down, especially in the top line GTP trim.


    While the base GT is powered by a carryover 200-horsepower 3.8-liter V-6, the GTP ups the ante to a 260-horsepower 3.8, a 20-horsepower gain, by way of a new Eaton supercharger. For maximum grip, a new Comp G package adds lightweight 17-inch wheels, V-rated tires, retuned suspension, Magnasteer II steering, and StabilTrak. To manage power to that grip, Comp G also adds TAPshift steering wheel shift pedals for the sole transmission, a 4-speed automatic. Unlike some Formula-One-style pedals, TAPshift requires the driver to take control. It won't upshift for you.


    The new Grand Prix provides total performance, including unmatched sedan versatility. The split-fold rear seat is huge, if spartan, and when combined with the available front folding passenger seat, allows objects up to 9 feet long to be hauled with the trunk closed. Rear doors also open nearly 90 degrees so oversized cargo can be loaded from the side. With this car you may not need a minivan or SUV.


    And when the 2004 Pontiac Grand Prix goes on sale in April it will have prices that put an SUV to shame, from about $23,000 for the GT, to around $28,000 for the GTP. Even with the Comp G package, the sticker should still be under 30-grand.


    And when you compare the new Grand Prix to mid-size car favorites Accord and Camry, it simply out classes them in everything from velocity to versatility. If this is how GM plans to revitalize its car business, the Grand Prix is a great start."

  • wgrwgr Posts: 127
    Is the G6 concept car the 2004 Grand Prix ?
  • ruskiruski Posts: 1,566
    no G6 = Grand Am
  • orwoodyorwoody Posts: 269
    Seems like Pontiac has generated a bit of confusion because they have introduced a number of concepts and show cars with similar codes..

    Here is a link that has some of Pontiac's show and concept cars:

    http://www.pontiac.com/pontiacjsp/passion/concept/main.jsp?source=main


    What I understand is the G6 is the future Grand Am, the line of GXP show cars, some will be built as limited editions and there is also the G-force Grand Prix show car that may end up as a production variant.

  • ruskiruski Posts: 1,566
    G-Force was the name of the concept that the 2004 Grand Prix is based on.
  • richm4richm4 Posts: 169
    Does anyone know if the sunroof opens up "spoilier type" as in the current GP, or into the roofline as most normal sunroofs do?
  • got back from the auto show and if I remember correctly the sun roof open spoiler stlye. The GP looked very nice. Interior looks better although the hard plastic still is there. Looking forward to driving one.
  • orwoodyorwoody Posts: 269
    Thanks ruski... I was meaning that some of the styling/options on the G-force might get offered on the new GP. I recalled reading somewhere that Pontiac was considering offering the G-Force 2+2 seating(4 race inspired buckets) and the satin-nickel finish gauges as options, and still hoping to offer the 280hp.(tranny reliability issues I think) It's early and maybe we'll see those come out as options. I'm hoping to see more color options for the interior.
    Per my preferred dealer they are expecting to have one of the 2004 GPs at the PDX Auto show end of January, so I'm looking forward to getting a closer look.
  • ruskiruski Posts: 1,566
    Nissan just released a very dopey looking 2004 Maxima and they are going to offer a version with 2+2 seating. Maybe Pontiac will try to be not outdone.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Posts: 2,287
    Nah. Pontiac is giving up on dopey. Cladding is gone for 2004.

    Ba-Ba-Boom! :)
This discussion has been closed.