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Honda FCX - Fuel Cell

revkarevka Posts: 1,750
edited March 14 in Honda
"Honda will be the first carmaker to provide a fuel-cell vehicle to a customer in the U.S. in 2002."

From Edmunds' News/Headlines section: Honda Plans Fuel Cell Debut in '02. Anyone else have more information to share...? Thanks for your participation!

image

What do you think? ;-)

Revka
Host
Hatchbacks & Wagons Boards

Comments

  • daysailerdaysailer Posts: 711
    Unfortunately, there does not seem to me much info available on the FCX to discuss. But, as usual, Honda is keeping itself in the forefront of automotive technology.
  • rfruthrfruth Posts: 630
    While we see puffs of water vapor as exhaust somebody in India or China will have enormous quantities of nastiness dumped in their back yard to make the hydrogen. Since many of these nasty byproducts of hydrogen production are gaseous (soft-coal powerplant emissions, etc.) we will not have accomplished much because it'll waft right here anyway so hybrids for now.
  • perry40perry40 Posts: 94
    Nice to see HondaMoCo. taking the lead with inovative technology as usual ... weaning ourselves off the Mid-East Oil Teat will take inovation and thinking that is "outside of the box" as the old cliche goes ...
    A true Hydrogen re-fuel infastruture will take this kind of thinking also ... I'd like to see the development of Fusion Reactors fast-tracked by democratic world governments ... this kind of self-sustaining reaction reactor would make the production of Hydrogen clean, cheap and perpetual ... hell it might cure our reliance on non-renewable fossil fuels for good!
  • It appears that this is just part of a longer term research project rather than a true commercial launch:


    http://world.honda.com/news/2002/4020724.html


    30 Echo-sized vehicles, that require a H2-refueling infrastructure and have a range of 355km? I think it'll be along time before H2 completely replaces gas/diesel, but it could be a viable alternative for the "2nd commuter car" fairly shortly. Even that would be good, given the amount of smog we get blowing in from Buffalo, Detroit and Toronto: 400 to 700km's away! And hey, it beats the heck out of good city planning!!!

  • revkarevka Posts: 1,750
    Here's some news from Edmunds' Headlines Section: Honda Sells First FCX to L.A..


    Revka

    Hatchbacks & Wagons Host

  • revkarevka Posts: 1,750
    From Edmunds' Special Reports section, here's more about the FCX: Honda's Pollution-Free Car. Let us know what you think!

    Revka
    Host
    Hatchbacks & Wagons Boards
  • SylviaSylvia Posts: 1,636
    Honda has delivered the first fuel-cell vehicle ever to a retail customer. The company announced last week that it has leased its first FCX fuel-cell car to Jon and Sandy Spallino of Redondo Beach, Calif. They will lease the 2005 FCX -- which is rated at 62/51 miles per gallon -- for two years, and will use the vehicle for everyday errands and driving around their Orange County home. The family will have to refuel the new vehicle at the first of California's emerging network of hydrogen refueling stations, which Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger has committed the state to building by 2010. Honda had previously delivered 13 fuel-cell FCXs to public agencies in California and Nevada. The FCX has a range of 190 miles.
  • I have a question to anyone who would know: Will fuel cells be used in semis and other heavy-duty diesels? If so, how will fuel cells supply all the power in diesel if we just use a fuel cell and electric motors? Personally, I believe a cleaner internal combustion engine should be used with a mechanical (driveshaft and transmission) drivetrain. The fuel for this I believe should be petro-diesel and bio-diesel.

    Oh and about the FCX, Americans would laugh at it's size and shape. Plus, how will all these tiny little fuel cell cars pass crash tests?
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Size has nothing to do with passenger safety in front end crash tests. There is a page on the web which shows a Mini-Cooper and a Ford F-150 after crash tests of the same type, and the Mini-Cooper fared FAR BETTER. I'll see if I can find the picture and post it - HERE IT IS !!">

    image
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,798
    Larsb-
    OK, what would the F-150 have looked like if it had crashed into a 2000 lb vehicle? And what would the Mini have looked like if it had crashed into a 5500 lb vehicle?

    Size has everything to do with safety when you are driving in the open road , and there are lots of big vehicles out there. As the NHTSB site says, their data is only valid for collisions with a similar sized vehicle.

    This is the reason large vehicles are so popular.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    The Honda FCX will turn out to be as safe as all Honda small cars, which is VERY safe.

    Size of a vehicle has no direct relationship to vehicle deaths. Look at that page I referenced - there are small cars in the low death stats and large trucks in the high death stats.

    Very few times are there head-on collisions between 6000 pound vehicles and 2000 pound vehicles. Extra safety of larger vehicles is mostly a myth, because they roll over more often.

    Good thing people don't use "I have to prepare myself for a head on collision with a 6000 pound vehicle" as a buying point, because if so, the environment would be a lot worse off, and gas would be heading to $7 a gallon by now because of huge demand.

    Sales of larger vehicles include people saying "I feel safer and higher up" which is just a rationalization, not a real reason. Soccer Mom talk. ;)
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    Getting back to the topic at hand:

    Does anyone have any idea where the hydrogen comes from which will be at the 'emerging network of hydrogen refueling stations'? Will the hydrogen be generated on site and, if so, what is the power source?
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    Actually, I think I found the answer to my own question:

    Apparently, the hydrogen at these refueling systems will be generated on-site using natural gas (unless someone can correct me on that).

    Which leads to a further question: given the inefficiencies of generating hydrogen from natural gas (more energy is consumed to generate the hydrogen than energy available in the hydrogen) as well as the inefficiencies within the fuel cell and drivetrain of the vehicle, wouldn't it make more sense to simply burn the natural gas directly in a natural gas powered vehicle?

    Or are these the type of questions that one shouldn't ask when discussing fuel cells?
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,798
    "Does anyone have any idea where the hydrogen comes from which will be at the 'emerging network of hydrogen refueling stations'? Will the hydrogen be generated on site and, if so, what is the power source?"

    Hmmm, interesting question. I had always assumed that it would be produced by cleaner buring technologies, like wind, solar, or hydro (or atomic, if the waste problem can be resolved). Otherwise, while hydrogen gets us out of oil, it doesn't help pollution.
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    Regarding hydrogen production -

    "I had always assumed that it would be produced by cleaner buring technologies, like wind, solar, or hydro..."

    Yeah, we've got SUCH an excess of power from wind, solar, or hydro, I'm sure we'd have no problem using it for large scale hydrogen production..... :confuse:

    The reality is, with large fleets of hydrogen fuel cell cars, the hydrogen will HAVE to be produced through the consumption of fossil fuels at either large scale production plants or at the hydrogen refueling station. But, since it takes MORE energy to produce the hydrogen than can POTENTIALLY be extracted in a fuel cell, the overall energy balance would mean the consumption of MORE fossil fuels with a transition to hydrogen fuel cells, rather than less.
  • SylviaSylvia Posts: 1,636
    Here's a photo from the LA Auto Show...
  • Thats right, but this is honda's 2nd gen. fuel cell technology... by collecting real world data, honda will put their 3rd gen fuel cell into a new model by 2012
  • lewzlewz Posts: 3
    Hydrogen can be generated by splitting water with DC current or by reacting a metal such as Zinc with an acid. I would prefer the electrolysis method using a solar cell on the hood of the car itself. This would work well for cars in the city with short trips but the sunlight would be blocked by buildings. Any way you look at it large scale production of hydrogen would need to be based on a renewable such as Ethanol. Pehaps a small generator with a peaked and tweaked engine could be used as a hydrid type situation. Cutting the consumption would be the frst step then the next cycles of technology can come in and improve the first design.
This discussion has been closed.