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I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today!

19599609629649651096

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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,527
    edited April 2013
    A 60 Edsel is cooler than either.

    I'd happily take an exact Edsel as the one shown in the (ahem), "article".

    A friend and coworker of mine, longtime Ford guy, has told me for years that the Ford dealer in his hometown of Wadsworth, OH, absolutely, positively had a new '60 Edsel convertible in his showroom. They only built 76 of them! This guy is a 'detail' guy so I believe him. He's 65 BTW. ;)

    Another dopey comment about the "Wagenaire" (sheesh)--his mentioning that only the luggage gets any sun from the sliding top. He must be completely oblivious to the third-seat option in those cars.

    They could be bought with supercharger, 4-speed, bucket seats, and disc brakes, and full instrumentation including tach in the instrument cluster (not strapped to the column or stuck on top of the dash). I know I'm biased, but not your typical Falcon or Valiant or Chevy II wagon.
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 22,139
    At least the Altima became successful. Who else even remembers the Stanza? Only us car guys would.

    The Stanza was pretty popular back in Nissan's heyday. I had a friend in high school who didn't have his own car, but would alternate among his parents' cars. They had a Mopar minivan, an Aries or Reliant wagon, an old abused '72 Dart sedan, and an '83 or so Datsun Stanza.

    When we went to college, he bought a new car, an '89 Escort LX coupe. They used the Stanza as a trade-in. It was really beat-up by then...smoking and wheezing.

    As for the Dart, they took the tags off of it and then the county threatened to tow it away. Initially they offered to give it to me. I was able to get it running, but then it started leaking gasoline, so they freaked out and didn't want to risk giving me anything that "dangerous", so they just let the county take it.

    My Mom and stepdad had a 1991 Stanza, which by that time was essentially a toned-down, boxier, more conservative, 4-cyl version of the Maxima. It was nothing all that great either. Transmission started to go around 90,000 miles, although they did get it to around 120,000 or so without having to replace it. It was replaced with a 1999 Altima...ugly, uncomfortable little thing, but it's proven pretty reliable. Although it did eat a transmission around 35,000 miles, I think it now has around 330-340,000 miles on it, and the car still even looks good.

    It seems like as the 1980's soldiered on though, Nissans began to fall from favor. The Camry really caught on fast, and was a much stronger seller than the old Corona that it replaced. And, as the Accord grew up and became a compact, rather than a sub-compact, it really took off as well. So the Stanza sort of became forgotten.

    The Corolla and Civic really seemed to overtake the Sentra, as well. Back in 1985, there was only one Japanese car that was in the top ten selling car nameplates, and that was the Sentra. But, the tide definitely shifted.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 34,296
    I also think 60 Fords are somewhat interesting style-wise, so I might be biased. 60 Edsel wagon has to be pretty rare, too.

    Are there any loaded supercharged Wagonaires in existence today? I'd have to imagine one of those would be worth a pretty penny.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,945
    edited April 2013
    not really worth that much but should be a fun toy. I think only 15 came equipped like this but this is an "option rarity", not a production rarity, so you'd have to find a buyer who appreciates that.

    Here's one for $12K

    http://bringatrailer.com/2011/11/07/paxton-power-1963-studebaker-wagonaire-dayto- - na-r2/

    I'd say a show ready version would sell for $25K, so an affordable collectible.

    MODERATOR --Need help with anything? Click on my name!

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,527
    edited April 2013
    That number of 15 is for real ('63's). 44 R1 Wagonaires were built for '63, too (non-supercharged). Of the combined 59, only four were painted Velvet Black, and 25 were 4-speeds. For '64, those numbers would be even less.

    That car has the grille badge put on at the factory only on cars with the complete "Super" package...and only two '63 Wagonaires were so-equipped. Of course, emblems get added over the years as we all know.

    The fender badges are a good three or four inches below where the factory put them, indicating new front fenders but that's hardly a deal-killer.

    Some smallish things that irk, although I realize it's not a big-dollar car:
    Aftermarket roof rack, wrong wheelcovers, wheels painted red instead of off-white, bumpers lack the 'winguard' wrap-around portions that all Daytona models had that year; interior door panels are aftermarket. Seat trim looks authentic from what I can see.

    As I've noted before, with a serial number, the authenticity of the car can be confirmed with a build sheet from the Studebaker National Museum, as well as original owner information if desired.

    That exact car is listed on a dealer's site for sale--"Call for Price":
    http://www.cosmopolitanmotors.com/listing/daytona-wagonaire/
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,527
    I also think 60 Fords are somewhat interesting style-wise, so I might be biased. 60 Edsel wagon has to be pretty rare, too.

    You guys who like '60 Fords have gotten me to 'take another look' at them. I've always liked '61 Starliners, but I'm liking the '60 Starliners more now than ever. I'd take a robin's egg blue one. '60 Edsel hardtop, even better, despite the vertical taillights. ;)

    I wish they'd built a Starliner-version of the '61 Mercury. I like whatever model (upper) got the wheel-opening trim and I like the Lincoln-esque rear lights and panel, but don't care for the boxy roofline.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 34,296
    Seems like a good value, which I guess is what Studebaker was about. Extremely rare relatively handsome supercharged hot rod wagon, that's not a bad mix of traits.

    I see on uplanderguy's link, the car is at a dealer local to me. Their prices are often kind of optimistic.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 34,296
    edited April 2013
    The Edsel would be the ultimate Starliner-based car, for sure. The Starliners were pretty cars - even thought the roofline is kind of a copy of a forward look Mopar in my eyes, it pulls it off. And yeah, the taillights are the big problem in the 60 Edsel design.

    I know I have mentioned it, but back in the 90s, my dad had a 60 Ford Country Sedan. Red and white on red and white, 352, it was an attractive car - bystanders seemed to love it on first sight. Wish he would have kept it - but as he bought cars on a whim, he sold them that way too. Also a huge car, 60 Fords are so wide...I remember practicing parking in that car, thinking that if I could handle it, I could park anything.
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 22,139
    Wasn't the 1960 Ford so wide that it was technically illegal in some states? I think it came in at 81.5" or something like that, and in many areas, anything over 80" has to be registered as a truck. Or, something like that?
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,527
    I see on uplanderguy's link, the car is at a dealer local to me. Their prices are often kind of optimistic.

    I sent them an email, inquiring as to price. I also asked for the serial number, as somewhere in my house I have a printout of all 'Avanti Powered' serial nos. for '63's which list color and equipment. It'll be interesting to see if I get a response.

    I think most dealers of 'classic' cars are optimistic in their pricing!
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,527
    Wasn't the 1960 Ford so wide that it was technically illegal in some states?

    At Hershey maybe three years ago, I was admiring a '60 Ford Sunliner convert, robin's egg blue (not the correct name I know), in the Car Corral (for sale) and the owner was a nice guy and didn't mind chatting with someone who wasn't a serious buyer (me). He told me that story too and I recall him saying sometimes the cars were shipped without the moldings at the edge of the (flat) fins and the dealers installed them. Not sure about the logic of that, but I did hear that same story you did.
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,204
    edited April 2013
    Did anybody ever notice the similarities between the 1960 Ford and the 1963 Plymouth? They look like they were designed by the same guy:

    image

    image
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,527
    edited April 2013
    Geez, lemko, there's the color of '60 Starliner I want!

    There are some similarities, but whenever I see a '63 Plymouth, I think of two things:

    1) The car that nerdy Robin Williams drove in "Awakenings".
    2) The commercial currently on TV for Sensa, which I think shows the car and its inhabitants at a drive-in. They show that asymmetrical instrument cluster in it.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wU4K6-MNUM
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,527
    edited April 2013
    Here's one for $12K

    http://bringatrailer.com/2011/11/07/paxton-power-1963-studebaker-wagonaire-dayto- - - - na-r2/


    According to the comments below in the thread, the 'Buy It Now' was exceeded and the winning bid then was $15,601.00.

    It's apparently lost the "T" in "STUDEBAKER" on the tailgate between 2011, when it sold, and later when for sale by the dealer out fintail's way. ;)
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,945
    edited April 2013
    Ah yes, Cosmopolitan Motors.....well, one's asking price is good exercise for your First Amendment rights.

    A car like that would be a little gem with a modern V-8, fuel injection, AC and a killer sound system.

    MODERATOR --Need help with anything? Click on my name!

  • fintailfintail Posts: 34,296
    edited April 2013
    I think of "Leave it to Beaver", and "Independence Day" (I think the latter was a 62, maybe even a Dodge, but same style).

    That 60 Ford is a good example of a bridge between the 50s and 60s.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 34,296
    I think I remember reading about that - but an unenforced law that might have been changed after the car hit the road. Must have caught some Pontiac Fever.
  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaPosts: 2,349
    The '95 vintage Altima really made an impression on me at the time

    I have to ask:

    For god's sake, why? I can barely think of a more anonymous car.

    2014 Cadillac ATS4 2.0T, 1968 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Holiday Coupe

  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 22,139
    The one in "Independence Day" was a 1962 Plymouth Savoy. Had to look it up though; I didn't know that off the top of my head.

    Leave it to Beaver's last season was 1962-63, so there certainly would have been plenty of '63 cars showing up. However, I don't think the Cleavers got a new car that final season. In the jazzy opening where they're hopping in the car and Beaver turns to look out the rear window, I'm pretty sure that one's still a '62.

    But, I'm sure there were '63 Plymouths used as background/minor vehicles. And for some reason, I'm picturing a '63 Dodge Polara, when Wally goes out with some friends, in one of their parents' cars and they take a shortcut but go through a puddle and stall out.

    As for the Cleaver cars, I think Ward started off with a 1957 Ford Custom 300 sedan...pretty modest, as the first season was '57-58, you'd think they'd put him in a '58 car, and a fancier Fairlane!

    And I'm thinking the next car they got was a 1960 Plymouth. At least I don't remember them ever having a '58 or '59 anything. They also had a '61 Plymouth. Sometimes they'd goof up though, and use stock footage of the '60 pulling up into the driveway, but then in the closeup it would be a '61.

    And then, finally, there was the '62 Plymouth.

    I guess Mr. Cleaver didn't have as good of a job as Mike Brady, who could buy a nice new convertible every year. And one year, actually went through TWO cars...a 1972 Impala and what was probably the only 1972 Barracuda convertible ever built!
  • berriberri Posts: 4,268
    Did anybody ever notice the similarities between the 1960 Ford and the 1963 Plymouth?

    You mean the Plymouth looks like a downsized and squared off Ford? Well, Elwood Engel worked at Ford before Chrysler quickly brought him over to replace Virgil Exner after the downsized 62 debacle hit. Since the 63 was a short lead time, crash effort to make the prior 62 look bigger, Engel may have been involved since Exner was now gone. Of course, there were a lot of designers floating between auto companies back in those days as well. Interesting observation, particularly because you don't seem to see a whole lot of either of those vehicles. I always thought the 60 Ford's front end had just a touch of 62 Continental influence, maybe the grill texture or front end fender curves or something. Meanwhile, I think the 60 Ford and 63 Plymouth both have somewhat unusual front end appearances that made them stick out a bit back in their day.
  • berriberri Posts: 4,268
    I was always a big Leave it to Beaver fan. I think you are right about Ward's cars. However at the end during the credits I believe you could see a 59 DeSoto and maybe another car of that 58/59 vintage in the street scene. Now IRCC, the Beverly Hillbillies started out with 62 Mopars and ended with maybe 66's?
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 22,139
    I never really saw the similarities between a '60 Ford and '63 Plymouth until Lemko pointed it out. But, there always was something about the '63 Plymouth that seemed a little "Ford-ish" to me. And then, for 1964, it seemed faintly reminiscent of a '63 Chevy!
  • berriberri Posts: 4,268
    Yeah, I think the high point of those 64 Plymouth's (and Dodge's) was the C pillar treatment on the hardtop coupes. I thought it came out pretty sharp. Actually, the 64 Mopar's were kind of clean looking while in 64 I though Chevy tarted up the Impala a little. Now the full sized Chrysler, a bit unusual. But nowadays I'm mellowing and find that formal, quasi squared look somewhat attractive for some reason.
  • texasestexases Posts: 5,689
    'For god's sake, why? I can barely think of a more anonymous car. "

    Obviously not. Very clean, smooth design for the time, and all black with the polished alloy wheels was a very clean, modern look for '95. For it's class, the best looker of the bunch.

    Not an exotic sports car, sure.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 34,296
    I swear I saw an episode of Leave it to Beaver not long ago (local station still airs it) where Ward's car was a 63 Fury sedan - but it could have been a 62 I guess. Wally tries to push start Lumpy's car with it, and has a fender bender.

    I think his 61 might have even been a 4 door HT, to add extra style to the goodness of a 61 Plymouth. Yes, I watch, or at least listen to the show now and then.

    Mike Brady was an architect, of course - what did Ward do? They had a nice house, one income, he always had a decent enough late model car. Of course, a lot easier in those days.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 34,296
    edited April 2013
    Saw a 90s exotic today - C140 S600 coupe. Not just the V12 car, but a Renntech car. Can't imagine what it costs to keep on the road, but it was something in its day - probably cost like 175K back then. Would be 94-96, I think.
  • berriberri Posts: 4,268
    Hmm, that 63 roof line is kind of unique to that year so maybe you did. I'm not sure how you'd check that out really? I do remember the more gussied up 61 HT, Ward must have gotten a promotion in whatever he did, besides buying a car after too much to drink. Maybe he smashed it up on a bender and after depreciation could only afford going back to the 62 sedan?
  • berriberri Posts: 4,268
    That's a neat website. I like the picture of the side by side 58 Merc and Impala. Maybe it's just the camera angle, but the Impala looks dwarfed. Somehow I thought their 62 was a sedan, but the website shows it too was a hardtop.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 34,296
    edited April 2013
    58 Mercury is a big car too, I think.

    It's a fun site useful for killing a little time.

    The page for my favorite show of the era - no doubt sponsored by Ford
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