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Ford Escape Hybrid

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  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,913
    You might check the Hybrid Vehicles board for better, more general discussions, rcf8000.

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  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Posts: 1,978
    I am thinking seriously about getting the Golf TDI instead of a hybrid. How is the relaibility of your TDI ? What about maintenance costs? oil changes and timing belts? I am also interested in manual transmisisons and the gold offers a 5-speed and the Prius doessn't. The other consideration is a HCH or wiat until the HAH, but the mileage is only supposed to be in the mid 30s with the HAH. The HCH came be obtained with a 5-spped and probably the HAH. The Insight can be configure with a 5-spped but no Honda deaelr is able to get Insights anymore. Maybe Insight II in late 2005.

    Thanks in advance for your answers.

    YMMV,

    MidCow
  • purduealum91purduealum91 Posts: 223
    I guess I got one of the good ones. The timing belt doesnt need to be replaced for 80,000 miles. I have avg 44 mpg City/Hwy. It was the best car I ever had. A new home has forced us to get a larger vehicle. We purchased a Honda Element. Oh if Honda puts a diesel int hat Element, look at. Anyways, I wholehearted ly recommend the Golf TDI. Mine was dark blue, black int and 5 speed because I drive only 5!
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    Anyone else notice Ford is planning on initially offering the Escape in the East and West areas only.
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    that'll leave us people not on the east or west coast sitting and waiting for an Escape Hybrid.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    New vehicle buyers seldom wait to buy, they just buy something different. No availablity equals lost market share.
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
  • orangelebaronorangelebaron Posts: 435
    While Ford keeps talking about their Hybrid Escape coming..it's coming..it's coming...and now they're only going to produce 4000 this year... watch Honda or Toyota beat them with their own unannounced hybrid SUV.
    Wouldn't that be embarrassing!
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    yes, but the waiting list on the Escape Hybrid is already at 30,000, according to USA Today.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Ford has tons of dealers. A regional launch worked for Scion...

    -juice
  • atlgaxtatlgaxt Posts: 487
    According to USA today, Ford says that 30,000 people have expressed interest on their website. That is not quite the same as getting on a waiting list. That said, with initial production of 4,000, my guess is that it will easily sell out to techies and greenies and a few Hollywood types, who will park it in the garages of their 10,000 sf mansions, just so they that they can show how much better than us that they are.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    Perhaps the Escape Hybrid is only a distraction to draw attention away from all of the Excursion's and F150's Ford would prefer to sell. Even as we speak Ford is rushing to market a bigger 6.2L gas engine for the F150 to compete with Hemi. Is Ford really serious about energy conservation and reduction of pollution?
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    Actually a larger engine doesn't always mean it's much thirstier.

    One example I use commonly. Ford's "Cologne" 4.0L SOHC V6 found in the Explorer. It's only 1 MPG higher in efficiency compared to the 4.6L DOHC V8. The 4.0L V6 has to try that much harder to get it up to speed, than the 4.6L V8 can, hence, you might be posting better milage with the V8 over the V6.

    With the new 5.4L 3V found in the F-150 (and starting this model year 2005, the Expy) actually does better in fuel economy over the 2V version it replaced. And THIS on a vehicle that gained quite a bit of heft in the redesigning.

    Just imagine what a new 6 Speed transmission can do, to improve fuel economy as well....

    Ford actually has more alternative fuel vehicles than any other manufacturer. Most of the vehicles can run on ethanol if need be (this allows it to qualify as "alternative fuel")...Also, the gas powered Crown Vics, F-150's Electric Ranger's, etc.

    Ford was also one of the first manufacturer's to make all their SUV's/Truck achieve (whichever was the first, and 2nd level) of those emmission standards currently in place.

    Now we have a Focus trim, that allows it to acheive PZEV levels as well. And if you compare EPA number's from the same vehicles, from 4 years ago. You will see many of the vehicles HAVE improved in EPA fuel number's, in the past 4 years.

    Take the Taurus for example... years back it was posting 18/28 with the base 3.0L 2V V6 Vulcan engine, now it's posting 20/29.

    You can't expect Ford to make EVERY vehicle the most fuel efficient of it's kind. The best type of fuel efficiency a car can have is NOT having a car to start with.
  • john1701ajohn1701a Posts: 1,897
    > You can't expect Ford to make EVERY vehicle the most fuel efficient of it's kind

    True, but it is very realistic to expect more than just a token vehicle. Offering only single PZEV is just plan sad.

    An absolute minimum of one PZEV in each class should be available (car, pickup, SUV, minivan).

    And since sizes vary dramatically within each class, having a large & small version of each isn't that much to expect... especially since the same engines are shared throughout vehicles across classes anyway.

    JOHN
  • xcelxcel Posts: 1,025
    Hi John1701a:

    ___Can you find a Ford or other Domestic worse then the two vehicles linked below in terms of emissions available here in the states? You can start with the Hummer H2. Nope, the H2 spews less then those 2. How about the Ford Excursion? Ooops, those 2 Toyota SUV’s don’t quite meet the specs of that one either. Let’s see about a ¾ Ton Chevrolet Suburban? Nope, those Toyota SUV’s again …

    http://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/E-TOYOTA-Sequoia-04.htm

    http://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/E-TOYOTA-LandCruiser-04.htm

    ___As for a few PZEV’s, how many 04 PZEV based Focus’ have sold this year vs. 04 Prius’? If the token vehicle is sold to the masses in quantity at a price they can afford, which does the greater good?

    ___Wayne R. Gerdes
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Let's be honest, Ford is only serious about making money.

    I doubt many auto makers (including Toyota) are any different, and if so I'd love to hear what their share holders thought about that.

    Hybrids might just be profitable, though, and they sure do help the image. Image makes people feel warm and fuzzy so they buy more cars and trucks.

    -juice
  • atlgaxtatlgaxt Posts: 487
    It's interesting that the Toyota 4.7 V8 is so dirty. The hp output and towing capability of this engine is not all that impressive, even though it is a modern DOHC 32v design.

    Initially, in the 1970s and 1980s many of the methods used to lower emissions and improve economy strangled power output. Today we seem to be moving towards a happy period created by high technology where many features that increase usable power, such as variable induction systems, variable valve timing, direct fuel injection and others actually result in engines that burn more cleanly with less fuel. Hybrid technology definitely falls in this category also, maximizing output and increasing efficiency for a given displacement, while at the same time improvements to transmissions help to harness all this power better increasing performance and fuel economy.

    When I first started getting into cars as a boy in the late 1970s and early 1980s, I would curse the fact that I missed out on the muscle car era of the 1960s, and finally getting my license was spoiled by the fact that I started driving in an underpowered piece of junk. Now I realize that I am living in the golden age of automobiles.
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    is out there to make money. In fact, everybody is out there to make money. Why do I work, why do you work, why does Joe Average down the street start up his beat up 88 Escort to get to the office? So they can work and someday get something better than what they have. "Green Cars" make people feel good about the environment and about driving, so those cars create a loyal following that keeps on buying the latest version of one specific line. Look at Toyota's Prius. Honda's Insight and Civic Hybrid. Ford's Focus PZEV.
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Posts: 1,978
    No the muscle car era of 1964 1/2 through 1973 was the golden age: 4 speeds, dual exhuasts , huge cubic inch engines, four barrels, 3 dueces, cheap gas, reverb AM radio, power front disc brakes.

    hoe wewre the dyas" Did I mention the gas wars 20 cebts a gallon :)

    Oh yah mileage singl;e digit in town 7-9, low 12-14 highway.
  • atlgaxtatlgaxt Posts: 487
    My Subaru Forester XT (turbo) will out accelerate all but the very quickest and rarest '60s muscle cars. The Plymouth Superbird, Shelby Cobra with the 427, a small number of Corvettes with the rarest engines, etc. are the only ones that can go to 60 in less than 5.3 seconds, which is what Car & Drive clocked the 5 speed Forester XT.

    The Forester will out brake and out handle any 60s muscle car and offer much better reliability, comfort and durability. It has safety and luxury features that could not be imagined 30 to 40 years ago. It can go off road or through snow with all wheel drive and handle over 60 cubic feet of cargo. It gets over 20 mpg and runs immensely cleaner then any '60s muscle car. And by today's standards it is essentially just a cheap, boxy, dorky looking economy car and does not even qualify as a sports or performance car.

    I can appreciate an old car as much as anyone, primarily for the memories it brings back. But don't go telling me that cars were better back then as compared to today.
  • miniacminiac Posts: 3
    You make lots of good points xcel but, I gotta agree with baggs32. When there thousands of cars in stop and go on the freeway (like every day, morning and evening in my commute, the smog generation must be at it's max. I've got to believe that the hybrids would make a significant difference in the level of smog generated under those conditions. Am I missing something?
  • djasonwdjasonw Posts: 624
    Gerdes or shall we call him Mr. Ford keeps pushing the Ford Focus PZEV which is a nice car indeed. Too bad the bozos at Ford decided to withdraw vehicle stability control as an option. Can it be that the people in the market for such a vehicle aren't sophisticated enough to even ask for it? I also found out that those PZEV engines really don't save fuel. Matter of fact, a review of the boards reveals people upset with the mid 20's mileage they're getting. Granted you are paying less for the Focus, but you get what ya pay for. Also a shame that the Focus doesn't shut down its engine when stopped. Just imagine if EVERY engine stopped temporarily when pausing for a light. The fuel savings would be amazing!
  • xbritxbrit Posts: 7
    Well I just stopped by the Ford dealer on Capitol Expressway (San Jose CA), one of the biggest in the South Bay.

    They've been told by Ford that "we're trying to make sure every dealer in California gets at least 1 Hybrid car in 2004". This is a big Ford dealer, and they think they might swing 2 or 3. They already have firm orders for several times that many.

    This dealer is slapping $2000 over sticker onto the REGULAR 2005 Escape, so god knows what the Hybrid will be marked up... I'd guess $3500 at the dealer. That's in addition to Ford's extra sticker premium, itself going to be maybe a $3500 premium over the regular V6 Escape. Add delivery and 8.25% tax, and assume they'll all come with the expensive and pointless "optional" hybrid display/GPS nav system/premium audiophile package. So we're talking MINIMUM $35,000 to drive one off the lot, and estimated delivery about 9-12 months. Probably a lot of people who get them will just immediately resell on eBay for $40-45,000.

    Bottom line, the car sounds quite appealing in theory, but in practice the 2005 is just a toy for the very rich. I guess I'll just wait till the 2006 model year and see if things ease up.
  • caperscapers Posts: 8
    The thing that bothers me about the Hybrid is how vague the MPG predictions are. First they said it would get 35-40 MPG with the same power as the V6. Last I heard it will only get 28 MPG with less power than the V6. That is only marginally better than the 25 MPG I currently get with my V6. When you add in the cost of battery replacement every 5 years (I hear the battery will cost 3k!) I hardly see this hybrid as cost effect.
      I think ford should have gone the way of a turbo charged diesel in the escape. It is a proven technology with 50+ MPG.

    What a disappointment the wait has been for this hybrid escape.
  • atlgaxtatlgaxt Posts: 487
    As compared to normal gas or diesel cars, it also looks like hybrids in general skew really high on epa tests as compared to normal driving, so you cannot use the epa figures as a basis for comparison when calculating cost savings for a hybrid to a non-hybrid vehicle.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    That's probably why they are being careful (or vague, pick your stance).

    Toyota had a press release, IIRC, about the EPA measures and how owners might not match those figures.

    Ford is being very careful, they want to brag but not heighten expectations to a point they can't meet.

    -juice
  • djasonwdjasonw Posts: 624
    Someone on another board posted an interesting test of the Ford Escape Hybrid. Since it was a pre-production model there were a few problems. I am not sure if I can cut and paste the article here. I am sure if you do a search, you can find it. They did mention that the Escape's power steering kept failing during the test. Hopefully a minor glitch. They also posted their MPG. Interesting reading.
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    also did a test. It's on www.usatoday.com.
  • carguydccarguydc Posts: 46
    Capers - this is directly from Ford's website. There will be no need for a replacement battery in 5 years. It's under warranty for 8 years or even 10 years in states like CA.

    "Unique Hybrid components such as the High Voltage Battery, Electronically Controlled Continuously Variable Transmission, and DC/DC converter will have an additional warranty coverage of 8 years/ 100,000 miles (10 years, 150,000 miles in PZEV states were required by law). This is in addition to the standard Ford Warranty coverages like the Bumper-to-Bumper 3 year/36,000 mile warranty, Roadside Assistance, Tires, Corrosion Protection, Safety Restraints and Emissions."
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    I think will be far above $23,000. Predictions by USA Today and other reviews say it should be in the $27,000 range.
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