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Ford Escape Hybrid

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Comments

  • miniacminiac Posts: 3
    You make lots of good points xcel but, I gotta agree with baggs32. When there thousands of cars in stop and go on the freeway (like every day, morning and evening in my commute, the smog generation must be at it's max. I've got to believe that the hybrids would make a significant difference in the level of smog generated under those conditions. Am I missing something?
  • djasonwdjasonw Posts: 624
    Gerdes or shall we call him Mr. Ford keeps pushing the Ford Focus PZEV which is a nice car indeed. Too bad the bozos at Ford decided to withdraw vehicle stability control as an option. Can it be that the people in the market for such a vehicle aren't sophisticated enough to even ask for it? I also found out that those PZEV engines really don't save fuel. Matter of fact, a review of the boards reveals people upset with the mid 20's mileage they're getting. Granted you are paying less for the Focus, but you get what ya pay for. Also a shame that the Focus doesn't shut down its engine when stopped. Just imagine if EVERY engine stopped temporarily when pausing for a light. The fuel savings would be amazing!
  • xbritxbrit Posts: 7
    Well I just stopped by the Ford dealer on Capitol Expressway (San Jose CA), one of the biggest in the South Bay.

    They've been told by Ford that "we're trying to make sure every dealer in California gets at least 1 Hybrid car in 2004". This is a big Ford dealer, and they think they might swing 2 or 3. They already have firm orders for several times that many.

    This dealer is slapping $2000 over sticker onto the REGULAR 2005 Escape, so god knows what the Hybrid will be marked up... I'd guess $3500 at the dealer. That's in addition to Ford's extra sticker premium, itself going to be maybe a $3500 premium over the regular V6 Escape. Add delivery and 8.25% tax, and assume they'll all come with the expensive and pointless "optional" hybrid display/GPS nav system/premium audiophile package. So we're talking MINIMUM $35,000 to drive one off the lot, and estimated delivery about 9-12 months. Probably a lot of people who get them will just immediately resell on eBay for $40-45,000.

    Bottom line, the car sounds quite appealing in theory, but in practice the 2005 is just a toy for the very rich. I guess I'll just wait till the 2006 model year and see if things ease up.
  • caperscapers Posts: 8
    The thing that bothers me about the Hybrid is how vague the MPG predictions are. First they said it would get 35-40 MPG with the same power as the V6. Last I heard it will only get 28 MPG with less power than the V6. That is only marginally better than the 25 MPG I currently get with my V6. When you add in the cost of battery replacement every 5 years (I hear the battery will cost 3k!) I hardly see this hybrid as cost effect.
      I think ford should have gone the way of a turbo charged diesel in the escape. It is a proven technology with 50+ MPG.

    What a disappointment the wait has been for this hybrid escape.
  • atlgaxtatlgaxt Posts: 487
    As compared to normal gas or diesel cars, it also looks like hybrids in general skew really high on epa tests as compared to normal driving, so you cannot use the epa figures as a basis for comparison when calculating cost savings for a hybrid to a non-hybrid vehicle.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    That's probably why they are being careful (or vague, pick your stance).

    Toyota had a press release, IIRC, about the EPA measures and how owners might not match those figures.

    Ford is being very careful, they want to brag but not heighten expectations to a point they can't meet.

    -juice
  • djasonwdjasonw Posts: 624
    Someone on another board posted an interesting test of the Ford Escape Hybrid. Since it was a pre-production model there were a few problems. I am not sure if I can cut and paste the article here. I am sure if you do a search, you can find it. They did mention that the Escape's power steering kept failing during the test. Hopefully a minor glitch. They also posted their MPG. Interesting reading.
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    also did a test. It's on www.usatoday.com.
  • carguydccarguydc Posts: 46
    Capers - this is directly from Ford's website. There will be no need for a replacement battery in 5 years. It's under warranty for 8 years or even 10 years in states like CA.

    "Unique Hybrid components such as the High Voltage Battery, Electronically Controlled Continuously Variable Transmission, and DC/DC converter will have an additional warranty coverage of 8 years/ 100,000 miles (10 years, 150,000 miles in PZEV states were required by law). This is in addition to the standard Ford Warranty coverages like the Bumper-to-Bumper 3 year/36,000 mile warranty, Roadside Assistance, Tires, Corrosion Protection, Safety Restraints and Emissions."
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    I think will be far above $23,000. Predictions by USA Today and other reviews say it should be in the $27,000 range.
  • atlgaxtatlgaxt Posts: 487
    Ok - lets just say it is an 8 year 100k warranty. So in about 4 years I will have close to 100k on this vehicle. I go try to sell it, and everyone figures that they need to budget at least $3k - $5k or more in case the batteries need to be replaced, not even thinking about other expensive components are about to go off warranty. This will kill the value of this car when you go to trade or sell. This is for a car which was very expensive to buy new, as the conventional wisdom on this thread is that it will be $3,500 more than a V6 Escape, which will actually be closer to $6 to $7 thousand more when you factor in the lack of incentives. Talk about depreciating like a rock - this thing will probably go from the $30k retail to being worth a couple of grand in that 4 year, 90k mile period.

    The other alternative is to hold on and face thousands of dollars of potential repair bills as this new technology starts breaking, especially in consideration that this is new technology from Found On Road Dead (Ford). The CVT transmission scares me as much as the engine, as I can see huge repair bills just for this component when it starts going.

    It gets back to being a guinea pig. Or being a rich limousine liberal. But if you are a working class stiff making less than $200k per year, you can't afford to buy a car that will depreciate over $20k in four years. But lets thank all the rich people who will volunteer to be guinea Pigs, so that maybe in a few years the technology will be perfected and cheaper and the rest of us who are not multi millionaires can then benefit.
  • john1701ajohn1701a Posts: 1,897
    > This will kill the value

    Exactly the opposite is currently happening with Prius. It now holds the all-time highest record for resale value ever!

    And just think what will happen a few years from now when more reports come in that the battery-pack is still working perfectly after 150,000 miles of driving.

    > The CVT transmission scares me

    The PLANETARY-CVT looks & acts very much like a differential. How many times have you *ever* know a differential to fail? Try, virtually never.

    JOHN
  • trucker50trucker50 Posts: 148
    lets be real a Ford is NOT a Toyota....all Toyota's kill Ford's when it comes to resale....unfortunately....I work for Ford....interesting thing about the 2, Toyota's made in Kentucky seem to have better quality then Ford's made in Knetucky
  • atlgaxtatlgaxt Posts: 487
    I second trucker50's point. It's a gamble. If Ford gets it right, maybe there will be some resale value left in that sucker, as non-millionaire tree huggers and greenies might be looking for an affordable hybrid that is a few years old. Heck, I guess the youngest of the Trust Fund protesters need cheap wheels to go burn down cities at G-8 summits and such. Pulling up to meet your anarchist / arsonist friends in mommy's Mercedes probably is not the coolest thing to do, but I digress.

    But being Ford, I see a huge potential for major issues. Remember, they claim they had to buy licenses from Toyota to avoid patent issues, but they adamantly claim it is their own technology. If that sucker has a lot of problems, in about 4 years and 100k miles, its resale value will vary depending upon how much gas is in the tank (a full tank will get you more value, an empty tank will be a junker).

    If I were a betting man with money to throw away on this game, I would go with Honda or Toyota. A Ford hybrid is kind of scary.
  • Kirstie@EdmundsKirstie@Edmunds Posts: 10,677
    Be careful about stereotyping hybrid enthusiasts! I would never be described as a "greenie" or "tree hugger," but I sure wouldn't mind having a hybrid to run around in. I do a lot of running around in town, and I get sick of having to stop for gas frequently, and of the drain it's putting on my wallet - I'm self-employed, and can't ask for a cost-of-living raise. A hybrid that's affordable might help get this technology to those who are in the market for a new vehicle, but for whom gas prices are a significant issue.

    Not all hybrid enthusiasts fit your mold.

    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Posts: 1,978
    Actually , I think more of the people looking for hybrids fit your mold. We don't like the increasing gas prices and would like to spend less at the gas pump, period! While turbos seemed to be the answer in the late 70s early 80s, it seems that hybrid is the answer now.

    However some of the earlier offerings seem to compromised too much on performance (or acceleration as some advocates vehemently state), but anyway many are doing a double take to determine what they are willing to sacrifice for better mileage. While Ford might not be the most reliable, the seem to have a pretty good knack for determining what the genral public wants and then supplying it to them in quantity. Is sounds like they will have a winner with the Ford Escape, very good mileage, perfromance if you want it with lower mpg and better mpg if you drive it easy. And mark my words, the Escape will be readily available. You will be able to go down to your local Ford dealer and pickup one from the car lot. There will be no 3-6-12 month wait for Ford's Hybrid, unlike the Prius.

    More Power and Mpg to the People,

    MidCow
  • Ford licensed Toyota's THS not HSD. THS is used in the classic Prius. Since then, HSD is implemented improvement in the Inverter, battery, A/C, electric motors design, computer software, and other things that I can not think of now.

    We know Ford is using heavier and less space efficient, cylinder D shape NiMH battery. We have no information on the Inverter, if it uses semi-conducting technology or not. Is the A/C electric? Some things to consider.

    Dennis
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    What turned me off from the Classic Prius was the odd shape and the untested technology. My next car may be a Hybrid, it may not, depending on how efficient the ICE version is compared to the HYBRID.
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Posts: 1,978
    Jchan2, I am with you man. My next car might be a hybrid also. I wasn't aware of the classic hybrid, but considering my feeling on the current Prius' power, it wouldn't have been a consideration anyways.

    Better mileage without sacrificing performance,

    MidCow
  • john1701ajohn1701a Posts: 1,897
    > What turned me off from the Classic Prius was the odd shape and the untested technology.

    The "original" had already been on the road for 3 years by the time the "classic" became available here. And in just 7 weeks, the 7th year of Prius production will end. Then, year 8 will then begin.

    At what pointed is the "untested" label no longer relevant?

    And by the way, that "odd" shape is becoming more and more common. Have you noticed how many SUVs are starting to adopt a similar tall & rounded look? After awhile, the shape of that first Prius will just be end up being recognized as simply ahead of its time.

    JOHN
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