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Ford Escape Hybrid

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Comments

  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    Facinating to watch you engineers dual....
    I'm still a skeptic though. Don't see the Hybrid as a solution long term. I see more potential in the fuel cell. But short term, I think ANT's comments on transmission and engine refinement make a lot of sense. Especially in large applications.
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    GM will have you waiting until 2031 for fuel cell cars. Just stick to the Honda FCX for fuel cells for now.....
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    Well yeah but GM has always been the follower when it comes to new techonology. Let's look at their huge line of OHV engines, while everyone has or been turning to OHC. But they sware by them religiously.

    GM has no real plans for fuel cells, that missed the boat on that, as well as a few other issues. Last week I was discussing that with someone, pertaining to a segment/market/trend that GM stated they would NOT follow. I just can't think exactly what it was.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    Oh, could have been just about anything new, exciting or trendy, ANT. Harley Earl must be turning over in his grave.....
    And they have him introducing Buick SUV's now on TV. Have you seen it?
  • john1701ajohn1701a Posts: 1,897
    > GM will have you waiting until 2031 for fuel cell cars.
    > Just stick to the Honda FCX for fuel cells for now...

    Until an automaker actually delivers a realistically affordable solution, don't give them too much credit.

    The fuel-cell prototypes are just plain too expensive right now (anywhere from $500,000 to $1,000,000 each). And they are neither efficient nor reliable.

    The clean vehicles are a bit of shame too, since all but two of them can only be purchased in California. (The two exceptions are Prius and Insight-CVT. Just look up vehicles that have a rating of SULEV or PZEV for details.) So even though they are a realistic option, you can't actually buy one from your local dealer.

    JOHN
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    Ah, in comes the 2004 Ford Focus 2.3L PZEV, FIRST PZEV — partial zero-emission vehicle — to be sold nationwide.

    Follow the link to read more... http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/reviews/healey/2003-09-18-pze- v-focus_x.htm
  • john1701ajohn1701a Posts: 1,897
    > Ah, in comes the 2004 Ford Focus 2.3L PZEV, FIRST PZEV —
    > partial zero-emission vehicle — to be sold nationwide.

    But it wasn't available nationwide when it was originally introduced. For awhile, it could only be purchased in California and New York. It's nice to see they are now providing an opportunity for consumers to choose.

    Also, "first" really doesn't mean much when the "second" will be available literally just days later. Both the 2004 Prius and the PZEV Focus will be available next month.

    JOHN
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    The devil is in the details, amazing how one SMALL little word can just change the whole meaning. But yes available days later where a few other's. But it's progress.

    Ironically thru all this, Ford still has the most diverse alternative fuel efficient engines. Like the Flexible Fuel Taurus, Ranger. Gas powered Crown Vic, etc. etc. All are overlooked of course and cannot be compared to the higher efficieny of such hybrid systems. But as an example....
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    FFVs don't prove a thing. They're there to help Ford sell more Excursions.
  • john1701ajohn1701a Posts: 1,897
    > FFVs don't prove a thing.

    Unfortunately, that's true. I live in the area where they've been testing the acceptance of E85 use in FFV cars & trucks.

    Only once over the last few years have I ever seen a person actually put E85 in their tank.

    So even though they can use E85, they choose gas instead. And there is no real cost difference either, so that isn't a factor. E85 is always 25 cents less than gas. So efficiency hit you take is made up for by the lower cost.

    My observations base the resistence on these 2 factors. One is that people don't really understand what "E85" and "FFV" mean, even though they own a vehicle of that design. Two is that they simply don't want to have to fillup sooner.

    JOHN
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    Why nobody uses FFV is because they are either unaware of the fact that their car does take different kinds of fuel or that they can't find a place that offers E85. (None of the gas stations in my area offer E85)
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    Doesn't regular gasoline have like ten percent E85?
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    You can't get E85 here.......
  • john1701ajohn1701a Posts: 1,897
    > Doesn't regular gasoline have like ten percent

    In the metro area of Minnesota where E85 is easy to find, the only type of gas you can buy is with a 10% mixture of Ethanol.

    JOHN
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    But, isn't E85 all ethanol with 85 octane? Or, gasohol IOW?
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    10 percent E85.
  • john1701ajohn1701a Posts: 1,897
    E85 = 85% Ethanol

    E10 = 10% Ethanol
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    Ah......the mystery is unraveled. Thanks for the info, John. Well, we don't have any of it down here. In the winter, the gas is reformulated with 10% Ethanol or MBTE, but you don't get a choice. Winter, you pump it, Summer you don't.
  • john1701ajohn1701a Posts: 1,897
    > In the winter, the gas is reformulated with 10% Ethanol

    It is 10% Ethanol here ALL YEAR LONG.

    And since crops needed to create the Ethanol are grown locally, we are pleased to be helping out those farmers rather than having to drill for more oil.

    JOHN
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,919
    My local farmer is the billionaire JR Simplot who just happens to own more private property in Idaho than anyone - yours is likely Cargill or Archer Daniel Midlands. The ethanol subsidy is huge, and has been around for ~30 years. Corporate welfare at its best, imho.

    Ah well, in disappointing news, Ford Delaying Fleet of Hybrid SUVs (Fox).

    Maybe they'll arrive late next summer.

    Steve, Host

    Moderator
    Minivan fan. Feel free to message or email me - stever@edmunds.com.

  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    is because they do not want to put the car on the market and then have the Sierra Club start bugging them about building a Excursion Hybrid, even though it would not be feasible since some people, and I think Ford will use this in their defense against the Sierra Club, actually use the Excursion for it's intended purpose. Towing Boats while hauling 9 passengers.
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    are hard workers who own little sections of big land that is owned by the city.
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    Excursion is being phased out in 2006, and replaced with an Extended Expedition vehicle. The delay was caused mainly for last minute refining to increase it's efficiency, and issues with supplier's and if they are able to meet the higher standard's being implemented onto this drivetrain.

    Not sure if it was here, or another newsboard, but I've hinted that it would be pushed back a bit.
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    That Ford would cut the Excursion by May 2004 and introduce an Extended Expedition to be badged Expedition EXT and on the roads by 2005. What happened to the fast track of throwing away the largest SUV on the planet?
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    MT is WRONG many times, so is Car and Driver, and a bunch of other publications. So I wouldn't say they are the bible of future information, in fact, Miss Cleo can do a better job predicting such things.

    The Extended Expedition Project has been pushed back a few months to coincide with the next Expy revision. As in, Expect it to debut when a new touch-up of the normal Expy takes place.

    There's a few factors involved as well, so not to get complicated, let's also take note it's built on the F-250 platform, therefore they'll be producted TILL the point that the Heavy Duty F-series are remodeled. Also look for the Triton 5.4L 3V engine to be implemented into the normal Expy....THEN......After that time, look for Extended Expy to be talked about and shortly introduced.

    Timeline: A) NEW F-150 production totally phased in at ALL plants, Heritage Model dropped. (next year).

    B) 5.4L 3V engine phased into the Expy

    C) 1: Heavy Duty F-series retouched needing new 5.4L 3V engines

       2: Excursion platform not really needed anymore, new Extended Expy to be phased in.
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    My addition to post #65, where I couldn't remember exactly (aside from fuel sells), which I was trying to remember what else GM missed the boat in, or what future application they will not address.... Is diesel technology. I now remembered being the conversation was raised again when reading some info pertaining to it.

    They have address they do not plan on offering any diesels on any vehicle except the Silverado with the 6.6L Duramax.

    Ok Now I remember... Let's continue....
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    GM missed the boat on Diesels. VW is starting up a Diesel Passat and Chrysler is offering a Diesel Jeep Liberty.
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    Gm usually takes awhile to catch up on techonology, let's look at their OHV engines for example....

    Having mainstream passenger vehicles such as Passat and Liberty fitted with diesels, might allow other automaker's to study their feasability in the U.S. market.

    And I'm stating "mainstream" vehicles, being it's already available on the Jetta, the heart of the segment is midsized vehicles whereas the Jetta is subcompact. Let me get that out of the way before someone jumps on it. :)
  • Is it still Summer '04 before these are actually available for sale?
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