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BMW European Delivery

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Comments

  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Congrats, blueguy!!
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,988
    congratulations dude! HAppy & Healthy New Year to you both!

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD, 2015 Subaru Legacy 2.5i Premium

  • jobeljobel Posts: 2
    Does anyone know of a dealer negotiation off the ED invoice area in the Philadelphia region?
    Thanks
  • sevosevo Posts: 4
    Anyone have any recent experience with ED using a dealer in Tennessee near the Chattanooga area? (Looking for $1000 over ED invoice for a 2007 335i)
  • jobeljobel Posts: 2
    any suggestions for an ED dealer in the Philly area.
    Thanks
  • sevosevo Posts: 4
    Anyone still posting here?

    Anyone have any recent experience with ED using a dealer in Tennessee near the Chattanooga area? (Looking for $1000 over ED invoice for a 2007 335i)
  • kelfkelf Posts: 83
    Apparently, no one is interested in saving money on ED Delivery in 2007. If do: which BMW dealers do few hundred $ over ED Invoice?
  • Never heard of a few hundred over ED invoice. Best I've ever heard of is $700. $1000 is most common.
  • kelfkelf Posts: 83
    Thank you-very prompt.1- Who was the $700 over ED Invoice?
    2-Where is the current ED Invoice price listed?
  • Kelf,

    I saw someone claim the $700 I believe on Bimmerfest. I didn't note it because quite frankly the difference between $700 and $1000 doesn't merit the time and energy required to track down and visit a remote dealer.

    ED invoices are available at bimmerfest.com/forums - go to the forum of the car you're interested (e90, e60, x3, etc) and click the pricing thread. Pricing threads are sticky and always at the top of each forum.
  • kelfkelf Posts: 83
    Excellent info.
  • Bayerischemw,
    I'm in the market for a new 5 series 535xi for ED. I'm a supplier to BMW and have picked up 3 already in Munich over the past few years.

    I'm in the Boston area and will probably be making my offers this weekend.

    Stuart
  • aaeaae Posts: 5
    I am about to close on a 650c for ED on July 16. My dealer tells me that the clock on my lease starts July 1. So I have to pay for two weeks when I don't have the car in addition to the 8 weeks the car will spend in transport. Also, I am being told that BMW pays the lease for the second month. However, they are adjusting my MF up so that my monthly payment INCREASES by $40 per month over a 36 month lease from what I was told a few days ago. What is this about? Are they trying to stick me with a last minute flim flam?
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    1. Yes you need to pay 2 weeks in advance of pickup.
    2. BMWFS pays for month 2 of your lease
    3. MF increase is 0.0003
    4. Be sure you know the EXACT MF they are using. They're probably boosting it on you. Make sure they're at or near the buy-rate MF on your car.
    5. You can lock in any MF/lease rate while waiting for your car to build. Obviously, you're not bound by the numbers of today but rather you should get the best lease rates during your entire build cycle.
    6. Look into using Multiple Security Deposits - you will drop your payments greatly.
    7. Make sure the acquisition costs and doc costs aren't artifically inflated. BMW's acquisition cost is $695. Anything higher is dealer profit. Doc costs over $100 are totally bogus.
  • aaeaae Posts: 5
    Many thanks. Great info. Just a few more questions if you don't mind:

    When I pay two weeks in advance of pick-up, does my lease start two weeks before pick-up or on the day of pick-up?

    What is the buy-rate MF?

    What are multiple security deposits and what do they apply to?

    What is the point of BMW paying the second month if they increase your payments with the MF boost that wipes out the second month credit? Also, I guess I have to pay for the car while its in transit, correct?

    Again, very much appreciated
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    1. Unfortunately, yes, your lease starts early. Be thankful as my moron dealers insisted I pay 4 weeks early.

    2. Oh, no. BMW allows dealers to bump lease money factors by up to 0.0004 points. That's a health bump that will result in much higher payments. 1 point over is a good profit; 2 or 3 is really sick; 4 is obscene.

    3. Multiple Security Deposits allow you to lower your money factor rate with cash that will come back to you at lease end. Essentially you're putting 7 security deposits down and this will result in much lower monthly payments.

    You can invest in 7 MSDs and the result is a reduction of 0.00049 in your money factor. As an example the 15k mile, 36 month 650i's lease rates are below:

    36 Month – Residual 57% of MSRP – .00300 Base Rate

    7 MSDs will allow you to drop that rate to 0.00251.

    I strongly suggest you visit the bimmerfest.com ask-a-dealer forum and european delivery forum. Everybody there is very helpful and they will explain everything to you.

    http://bimmerfest.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=25
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,311
    well, asking really, if someone has done the opportunity cost thing on the multiple security deposits.

    Putting $X thousands in escrow for the term of the lease means it's not in (at worst) a money-market mutual fund, drawing 5.5%.

    Also, MF variations in the third or fourth decimal place probably make the people who lease regularly (I don't) take extreme notice (cartwheels down the hall, that sort of thing). It would be helpful, if it's not too onerous, to let the uninitiated know what a MF shift of 0.000X means in terms of monthly payment.

    Thanks
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 31,090
    It works out to a 9%-14% after-tax return on the amount of the security deposits.. depending on how good of a lease deal you negotiate, and the price of the vehicle..

    Usually, in the 10%-12% range..

    regards,
    kyfdx

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    On MSDs the ROI is much better than 5.5% a year and it's tax free. I know on my 06 330i's lease, the ROI would have been about $800 over the course of 2 years. $3150 in MSDs = $800 savings. That's far better than 10% a year (and it's tax free).

    I have zero knowledge of his deal (cap cost, base, MF, residual, miles, taxes) to do the math for him. I'd assume someone purchasing a 650 would have the ability to run these numbers through something like the calculator at leaseguide.com.
  • aaeaae Posts: 5
    Just one more question:

    My dealer is telling me that my base rate is .00285. He also says BMWFS requires that this be marked-up to .00315 due to the seond month lease payment by BMWFS. So, he says, his true buy rate MF is .00315. He is then marking this up to .00335. Is this correct? Is the initial .0003 mark-up really a BMWFS requirement that the dealer has no control over?
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    If you are not paying the security deposit up front (on an expensive car like a 650i pay the deposit as it will be FAR cheaper than the extra 0.00015 rider over 36 months).

    His base rate of 285 must be based off last month (March). If you're not picking up for a few months then you have at least May's rates to lock in. Odds are good that May will be more attractive as BMW will probably be looking to push product as the model year winds down.

    Tell him you want to know exactly how many MF points he's marking over the base rate (seems to be 2 points which is decent). Finally, BMW does push all ED MFs up by 0.0003 not5 0.000315.

    Additionally, I'd pay the security deposit instead of adding it to the MF if you are in fact doing that.

    Essentially, get him to put in writing that you will get the best MF plus his 2 point bump and the 3 point ED bump.
  • aaeaae Posts: 5
    I actually ran the numbers for multiple security deposits. Of course, it all depends on what you use for the opportunity cost of capital on the funds tied up in the security deposit for 36 months. for me, its almost a wash.

    The more interesting benefit for doing security deposits might be that you would get the full security deposit back if the car gets totaled or is stolen. For example, if you were to put a total of $10K towards cap reduction and drive-of and the car is a total loss due theft or damage, you would be out whatever amount you applied towards cap reduction. Gap insurance does not cover this, according to my dealer. However, if you take the cap reduction funds and instead apply them towards security deposits, you can get your payments close (although slightly higher with my numbers) to the payments with cap reduction while eliminating the risk of losing what you put towards cap reduction in the event of the car being stolen or damaged beyond repair.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,311
    Thanks Blue, and to kydfx as well, for the post prior to yours.

    All this stuff helps. Who knew I would ever consider leasing a car? Now, picking up a car in Germany -- that's something that's made sense to me since I first drove there in 2001.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    The thing is, it's not much capital. We're not talking 10k but more like 3-4-5k. Back in the days of 10 MSDs it made even more sense as BMW gave you 0.0001 per MSD. You could take a solid 0.001 off the car instead of only 0.00049.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 31,090
    ..if you don't come out ahead... then you aren't doing the calculations correctly...

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • aaeaae Posts: 5
    It depends on your opportunity cost of money. Lets say you put $9K towards a security deposit. If you think you can make 20% on the 9K by investing it elsewhere, then putting the money into the security deposit to reduce your payments does not make sense.

    If you would put the money in a checking account making 1% per year, then putting the funds towards security deposits is a better use of the funds. I am saying that for my opposrtunity cost of money, the reduced payments are roughly equal to what I would earn if I invested the security deposit funds elsewhere.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 31,090
    Sure... but, I don't know anyone that can earn 10% after-tax guaranteed, with little risk.

    The going rate in my area for a 36-month FDIC-insured CD is a little under 5% APY.. and, that is pre-tax. For most people that is an effective return of 3.5% after-tax.

    Unless one stays 100% invested in stocks/bonds, most buyers in this price range have $3000-$6000 in money markets or CDs that could be put to better use as MSDs..

    regards,
    kyfdx

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • be325be325 Posts: 91
    We are 'toying' with the idea of taking a tour to Europe in May of 2007. We are in the very early stage and didn't contact BMW dealer,yet. Please, share some of your experiences (1)at the local dealer, (2)picking up the car in Munich, (3)dropping off and picking the car again at the BMW dealer.
    These are my questions: Was it worth the hassle? Did you save as much as the brochure said you would ($2,270 on 328i)? Last time I drove in Germany and France was in 1983. Are these prices (ED prices)negotiable or set in stone? Lufthansa offers second ticket free. Would you do it again? ..... this is almost as long as the Consumer Reports survey!
    Thanks in advance for any thoughts
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    Was it worth the hassle?

    Yes. It's not a hassle at all. It's a great experience. Where else will you be able to do 140 mph with your BMW?

    Did you save as much as the brochure said you would ($2,270 on 328i)?

    Never use BMW's MSRP pricing. A 328i via ED should be about 5k less than MSRP. Go to bimmerfest.com's european delivery forum for the latest info.

    Last time I drove in Germany and France was in 1983. Are these prices (ED prices)negotiable or set in stone?

    Totally negotiable. There is an ED wholesale price that you negotiate from. $800-1200 over ED invoice pricing is common. Paying the listed BMW ED MSRP is extremely expensive and unneeded. You're basically stuffing mad cash into a dealer's pockets for doing nothing.

    Lufthansa offers second ticket free.

    Yes, they do. Lufthansa is hell on earth but if two of you are going, it's the way to do it.

    Would you do it again? ..... this is almost as long as the Consumer Reports survey!

    In a second. If I opt for a 335i in 2009/2010, I'd definitely go ED as the savings are insane. I thoroughly enjoyed my ED trip with my 2006 330i (MSRP of over 41k, I paid 35.7k for that car). If the M3 sedan exists, I may not bother as there's no ED discount on M3s.

    It's a great experience.
  • jlnybergjlnyberg Posts: 5
    I just purchased and picked up a 328xi in Munich on March 19. I saved about $5,000 (I'm in the Seattle, WA area) and had an AWESOME experience. I had a nav system in mine which is key in getting around (if you don't have one in yours bring a portable one with you). Because of the break in period of 1,200 miles I couldn't take the car over the recommended 3500 rpm but it still allowed me to drive 115 mph. I went all over Germany (Baden-Baden, Trier, Cochem, Stuttgart, etc.) It even snowed while I was there and the car handled great. You can even go and drive your car on the Nurburgring. It will be the only opportunity you will have to ever see how your car can truly perform. I dropped off in Sindelfingen - easy easy easy. I would not consider it a hassle at all. If you are interested in seeing the museum it's under renovation so what they have on display is limited but not that far from the pickup. I think it's supposed to reopen in 2008. The pickup is great but it can be a wait in busy season (I had to wait about 45 minutes and this was the low season) before I could get to my car so plan ahead. I agree that Lufthansa is not the greatest airline but it was cheap to fly. I knew people in Germany so I travelled alone and met up with my friends there. It was worth the entire experience and when I buy my next one I'll do it again. Germany is fun to see, clean, and while the people may seem stoic they are actually very friendly even if you don't speak German. Just find the right deal for you and GO!
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