2013 and earlier BMW 3-Series Prices Paid and Buying Experience

nyccarguy

I have a customer who recently bought an '06 330iA @ the auction in Pennsylvania. The car had 54K miles wasn't an Xi & he bought it for $15K.

edwardsf

I was not commenting that anyone can get $4-5000 off off the advertised price but simply that it can be done, especially right now with the economy so bad. I did. But I still don't understand which car you claim has a $17000 trade-in value, the 2006 xi or my wagon.

And in fact, I don't agree with the rest of your theory that the "secret code book" is the only book that is applicable. Since so many people use Edmunds and KBB to negotiate, certainly the latter two are the basis for what a lot of people actually GET at trade in. Indeed, your approach is eerily familiar to the salesman's approach when I traded-in my Saab - the salesman said, "That internet KBB trade-in figure is inaccurate and high; we use the secret code book number." I responded, "Who cares, I want the KBB price." And I got it. Are you a car dealer or salesman? Indeed, Galves website is directed at and only sells to dealers. That is not what I am going to use when bargaining, that's for sure.

Also, a lot of people return them off leases (like my car) and the trade in does not necessarilly fit into the bank, car dealer or auctioneers' reality.

bmw_gss

Hi all,

Can you please advise on some demos I am looking at?
1. Are demos (2010 with 7.5K miles) safe to buy? Are there any things that I should ask to verify, considering there is no title or carfax, can I assume that demos would not have had any accident etc?
2. I have a quote $34,985 on 2010 328xi demo with 7.5K miles on it - comes with Premium Pkg., Value Pkg, Comfort Access, Heated Steering Wheel, iPod Adaptor.

Is that a good price? Is there room for me to negotiate??

Thanks.

nyccarguy

He was talking about the '06 330xi

qbrozen

Actually, there were a few numbers flying around. I priced out an '07 328 wagon, I believe an '07 328x wagon, and then there was the '06 330xi.

Thing about that particular '06 is that it has very low miles. When you are dealing with luxo cars, the miles make a BIG difference on the value. So that car was actually ~$20k.

disco99

I appreciate the pointers...Just for kicks, I inquired about a trade-in for that car at another dealership; I was given a range of 19500-21500...Maybe I'll haggle a bit. After all, dealers are not moving too many CPOs in these rough economic times. I'll throw 19k at them and see how they react...Thanks again.

CPO(exp 09/12--100k miles) 2006 330 XI 32k miles, NAVIGATION, HEATED SEATS, SUNROOF, XENON LIGHTS, CD CHANGER, BLUETOOTH, 18 " WHEELS.... All packages...

qbrozen

I'm not in car sales. Just a very experienced consumer. Anybody can subscribe to Galves, by the way.

Like you, I used to be angered by the secret book thing, But then I learned, in the end, what matters is that you are playing on the same field. When dealing with a trade-in, it is all about the difference. Comparing, let's say, KBB to Galves on a particular imaginary car, KBB is $2k more on the trade-in, but also $2k more on the retail side. If a buyer is willing to pay KBB retail, a dealer SHOULD be willing to pay KBB trade-in for the car being traded. And sometimes that happens.

What happens most times, of course, is that a dealer wants to pay Galves (or whatever secret book they are using in their region) but wants to charge KBB. This is where buyers get screwed.

Importantly, though, when NOT dealing with a trade-in, an educated buyer should be basing what they pay on the Galves number (or auction numbers if you can get them), not KBB or Edmunds or any other free service.

One story I've told around these boards before is from about 9 or 10 years ago. I did, in fact, know the Galves number for the car I was trading in as well as the one I wanted to buy. (By the way, I don't typically disclose the fact I know these numbers up front when negotiating.) The dealer comes back with the Galves number on my trade, but is not at all happy with my offer on their car ($2k over Galves). I then disclose I know the trade-in value of their car. He explains they don't use Galves when buying their cars, they use Black Book, and Black Book has a value about $1500 higher than Galves for the car they are selling.

Shortly after telling me this, the salesperson gets up to go check with the magic elves in the back office... and he leaves the Black Book on his desk. I'm not exactly shy, so I reach across, pick up the book, and start perusing. Well, just as I expected, the book was $1500 over on their car, BUT ALSO $1500 over on mine.

When he returned, I told him, "Hey, I have no problem paying $2k over Black Book on your car... as long as you give me Black Book value for my car."

I was shown the door pretty quickly after that.

oregonboy

It's the Spam Monkey, "enfrancisco" AGAIN. Geez I wish that guy would take his lame link and disappear.

I expect that he is collecting a 1/10 of a cent for every poor soul that he can dupe into clicking on his link. :sick:

audiorbmw

Thank you. That helps a lot. Right now, my best offer on a 2011 328xi is ~$800 over invoice. Has anyone has been able to negotiate invoice on a 2011 328xi? Want to know if that is even achievable. Thanks.

xeye

I was able to get a 2011 335i xDrive with all prices quoted at invoice. With the $1,840 Option Credit and $750 dealer profit, the net even after Destination, registration, doc fees, etc was still under invoice. I got mine in June. My dealership is in Sudbury, MA.

edwardsf

Well, that scenario is indeed the point. The dealer will try to use any tool (especially a non-transparent one) that he has to lower the price of trade-ins and raise the price of his merchandise. Indeed, Galves markets to that approach by providing the dealer with some "authority" to do so.

Same with the Black Book. Especially the Black Book! I could give a hairy rat's behind what the auctioneer netted. What I want to get is the highest trade-in and lowest sale price that other similarly situated buyers are getting. KBB and Edmunds TMV are not perfect at that - this forum is much much better. But for your average Joe, KBB and TMV are much better tools than just jousting with a salesman's claims. And if you just go in and routinely offer $3-5000 below those numbers, you will often get it.

Since 99.9% of consumers don't have those secret code books, I think they are a hindrance to consumers because they limit information to one side of the negotiation. (No "invisible hand" there....) While I appreciate your clever use of those books, I think overall, they are a dealer's tool and should be exposed as such and not given some kind of due deference.

audiorbmw

Wow, thanks. Forgive my ignorance, but where can I see or read about the $1,840 option credit? None of the dealers I have spoken with mentioned any credit. In fact, most stated that there were no incentives on the 2011s.

Would you mind mind stating the breakdown of your sticker / options to OTD price? Would be very helpful.

qbrozen

Auction numbers (and, therefore, Galves) are the true value of a vehicle. Just because those numbers cost money to obtain doesn't mean they are exclusively dealer tools.

Compare it to anything else. Let's say home values, for example. Looking at asking prices is not a true representation of the market or home values. You need the "insider information" provided by the MLS and only accessible by banks and realtors.

disco99

All right guys..I went for it..I paid 22k for the car..Did I overpay. I could not find a similar deal out there..The low mileage and the CPO convinced me. Your thoughts would really be hepful..Thanks

CPO(exp 09/12--100k miles) 2006 330 XI 32k miles,
NAVIGATION, HEATED SEATS, SUNROOF, XENON LIGHTS, CD CHANGER, BLUETOOTH, 18 " WHEELS..,6 Spd AT...

disco99

Galves should be renamed "Gouge". How on God's earth would anyone other than a dealer be pro-Galves? Here's a simple fact about Galves...Not one car dealer ever utters a bad word about them. Enough said!!!

I just traded a 2004 325 xi with 130k miles...I got $6800 as a trade in..Of course Galves' best number was $4500..SHOCKING!!!!!!!!!!!!

nyccarguy

Congrats on your car! What was the asking price? Why'd you get rid of the '04?

hemanthh

Thats a pretty good deal. I have my 2006 330xi on sale right now with 23k miles for 24.5k 1.5 years of CPO left. Fully loaded and I have installed additional accesories. That's a pretty good discount off of Blue Book.

qbrozen

You miss the point. It has nothing to do with being "pro Galves." It is "pro being on the same playing field as the dealer." Not being equipped with the right information is only asking to be spanked by the dealer.

I don't know what, if anything, was wrong with your car, but the lowest number with no options is $5k. Sounds like dealer was feeding you a line.

kball2

Could you please provide me with the current August 2010 MF and Residual % for a 2011 335i Coupe and Sedan?

Thanks!

disco99

Thanks Guys..The asking price was 24k "firm"...and my trade-in had 132k miles in need of tires(40k on them), and front end work....The difference in Torque is amazing...As much as I loved the 325 XI; it was simply underpowered. I was very fortunate the dealer did not use "GOUGE" to assess my trade-in.

disco99

Thanks Heman...You should be able to get at least 23k for yours but you need to be patient. Make sure you emphasize your low mileage, the CPO warranty cost and low mileage BMW models' high resale value. I have seen dealers in the NY area list similar cars to yours for as much as 27k...

Make sure you unload it before the CPO warranty expires; that can easily amount to a 20% reduction of your selling price. Good luck.

disco99

Qbrozen..I meant no offense.
Actually I do get the point. Maybe we'll have to agree to disagree.
Galves is the dealer's bible. That low number you referred to is usually the only number. Kelley's blue book "Fair" trade-in is another number every car shopper should reject unless your car is really a lemon.

Maybe those of us who buy CPO preowned are a little bit more $$ conscious. We're still in a recession.

I

bond007jb

Folks,
I am getting a 2008 335i Conv. with 25k miles for $44K. It is pretty much loaded with NAV, Prem, Sports, Conv. Packages. The dealer is not budging on the price even though Edmunds indicates a value of 42K on a CPO. Additionally the dealer offered only 6k for my 04 Honda Accord EX with Leather and Nav. Way less than KBB (8000) or Edmunds(8600). I just walked out of the place when I heard the numbers.

Appreciate any advise on if this is a good price and best way to negotiate.

disco99

where are you located? I am quite sure that trade-in number came straight out of Galves.

Colonial Volkswagen (PA)is asking for $39k for this car. Keep haggling. With the 11s coming out, this will be a tough sell for them at 44K. Don't commit as long as similar cars are being offered for a lot less. Just my 2 cents. Good luck!!!

bond007jb

Thanks for the reply, but the one sold by Colonial will probably not be a CPO. I think I might be able to bring them down to 42K, but will have to try to sell the Accord myself. Not a big deal, used Hondas seem to sell well.

Colonial will probably be ready to deal at 37.5K which will make this one 4.5K more expensive which is substantial. Looks like as you said, I should hold out for a bit more.

qbrozen

How many miles on your Honda? Is that a 4-cyl?

$40k should be enough on the BMW to get the deal done. Anything over $41k is too much.

bond007jb

Just 91500 miles on the Honda Accord EX-L with Nav. and Satellite Radio

always_buying

I'm unsure of the MF and Residual on 2011 328i for August. Anyone know it?

The deal quoted is:

2011 328i Coupe in special order color and interior
Premium Pkg
Sport Pkg
Cold Weather Pkg.
Heated Steering Wheel

List: $42,990
Invoice:$39,515
Selling Price: $40,565
MF 0.00185
Residual 60%
$2500 upfront includes First Month $496.68, Security $500, Acquisition $750, Fees/Insurance $397.50, Cap Cost Reduction $295.73.

Monthly Base of $468.57 plus tax = $496.68 per month.
10k per year in the New York Metropolitan area

Anyone welcome to weigh in - also - read a previous post about dealer incentives, but having a hard time finding if they come into play here. Anyone?

Many thanks!

qbrozen

Miles are a bit on the high side. If it needs nothing, is clean, and has no bad history, the offer is low.

But, like you said, it is a used Honda. You could probably get $9k private party for it easily. List it for $9995 and wait for the right buyer.

skywalker5

The $500 Security Deposit is waived on all 2011 328 lease deals for the month of August so you shouldn't have to pay that. Go on BMWs website and see the $0 down lease deal for the 328.

Also, there is $1840 cash to customer incentive on all AWD models. Applicable to your lease deal.

Is this a RWD or AWD model? The residual for a RWD Coupe on a 36/10 should be 65% with a .00185 Money Factor.

jrz

I too am buying a 2011 328 coupe RWD with no options other than automatic. I am ordering the car and was told 4 weeks. I am paying 37,000 including destination which is 210 over invoice. The dealer wants a 2000 non refundable to order the car because it doesn't have options. 2100 upfront which includes 700 security deposit. The lease is 36 mo/12k miles. No money down. The dealer told me 526/mo including tax ( my state is 6%).

jamesa4

I know the MF and residual aren't as good on the coupe, but that sounds like an awful lot of $/month given the fact that the MSRP is so low and the car is basically stripped. Granted I'm getting a sedan, but it's got premium, value, nav, etc., and I'm paying WAY less per month. You could save some money putting down fully refundable security deposits, too, if that's an option for you.

tdbrph

Anyone know if the Residual and MF are changed on the new special or is it just cap reduction or dealer cash?

Thanks
Triston

jeanguy84

Just want to know what you think about this deal.

2007 328xi CPO + cold weather + premium ~25Kmi

Dealer is asking 27.5
I'd like to offer 25.5

Thoughts? Should I go lower? Thanks for any advice.

qbrozen

Yes, go lower.

$24k is more like a fair CPO price.

edwardsf

Well, that is the point then. The concept of Galves is for the dealer to claim a more authoritative reference in order to fleece the buyer. But 99% of the time, only he gets to see it and thus its very existence is to afford dealers an advantage. "I will give you less because I have the secret book (which I can lie about)."

You have kinda changed your tune here, which is good. Your original posts were that Galves is more accurate than KBB. Now it is that consumers need to know Galves exists so that we can call bologne. I encourage you to stick with the latter.

fabs335i

NO A/C outlet in the front? Unbelievable, now I too will be forced to hardwire the 9500ix.

Nevertheless, I am currently in the market for a 335i with the following options:
Space Gray
Oyster/bk
M/T
Sport pkg.
Convenience pkg.
Prem. pkg.
Nav.
Harman K.
Ipod USB
Split down R. seats.
">
Car MSRP with all the options comes out to be $52,475 which is close to what you got. In my case, they don't seem willing to deal off the MSRP. I was quoted $700/mo. + tax - with $0 down plus inception (around $2500). I still think I should be able to lower that payment by $50. Any advice would be much appreciated. :shades:

ericliaw

Please rate my deal.

Base and Options at Edmunds invoice prices (Base $32,340, premium at $2,410, metallic paint at $500, automatic at $1,305, navigation at $1,910, split folding rear seats at $430) total = $38,895

$725 acquisition fee
$400 MACO
$180 training fee
0.00125 MF
61% Residual
Dealer margin over invoice = $450

Free mats and rubber mats

Lease cost $463/month + tax here = ~$505/month.

Thanks so much.

xeye

There is a D/C outlet for the 9500ix (I have one as well). I actually have a "Y" cable with one male end (for the cigarette lighter female receptacle) and two female ends for my 9500ix and Garmin GPS. Everything works fine.

You'll find the receptacle along the transmission tunnel on the front passenger side behind the glove box. It's downward facing. Run your fingers along the upper edge of the vertical transmission tunnel wall and you'll find it.

I still wish they had provided a cover for the previous ash tray compartment so coins could be concealed from inquisitive gawkers.

bmw_gss

I notice an engine whine at low Rpms on my new 328Xi. Is this normal sound, see Youtube link for the whine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJzY80nzClQ&feature=player_embedded

I've looked at different revving videos and read as many comments as possible and came to the conclusion that mine seems louder than usual.

Just wanted your opinion before going to service only to hear "it's normal".

Thanks.

qbrozen

It is both. Galves is more accurate in reflecting the value of cars at dealer auction. And consumers should be armed with the information beforehand so a dealer doesn't pay them less than it is truly worth and/or so they can pay a fair amount for the vechicle they are purchasing.

seekingaudia4

At what exact RPM did you notice the unpleasant whine most obvious? I couldn't pinpoint it in the video.

bmw_gss

It comes at idle as well as low rpms under 2500. It is pretty annoying, trying to figure out if its normal?

seekingaudia4

I remembered to rev my engine a little at a parking lot, just came back watched your video again, initially I thought it was just background noise but if that whining noise was from your engine, then yes mine did not have it.

I would definitely take it to the dealer, they might have a bulletin on it, even if not, it is good to have it on the record, after that I would also write down anything they say on the work order/receipt as well. It may or may not be serious, but keeping a record of it is the minimum I would do.

bmw_gss

Hmm..Do u also own a 2010 328 xi? I dont know if this is engine or something else. Would u be able to post a sample of ur rev at idle or low rpms for reference. If you cud, it wud be an excellent reference pt to show the dealer. Mine is new and I will be taking it to the dealer to fix my plates, will run it by him, but I am sure they will say its 'normal'.

seekingaudia4

Mine is a 2011 328i 6A, just leased it not too long ago. I don't hear any "whining noise" from the engine at low RPM, but did notice if I shut all "noises" off, such as the radio and the fan, there is a noticeable high pitched whine probably produced by the electronics, not the engine, not to the point of being annoying. But since I usually have the fan at least on the first dial, I didn't hear it before when I was driving.

I am still getting familiar with the car, this long weekend has been perfect for me to experiment when the local traffic is light. Just learned to turn off the DTC function to get the maximum power out of the base engine, using DS and manual shift of course. When the DTC is off, there is a distinct engine whine not heard when the DTC is on. But this whine is not the same high pitched whine I mentioned earlier, can't even say it is definitely from the engine though it changes with the engine rev, it actually adds fun to the driving, reminding me I am in a racing mode

seekingaudia4

Sorry I confused DSC with DTC. I meant activating DTC by pressing the DTC key before driving, the DTC light is ON in the dash. This allows maximum engine power during cornering and acceleration. I only do so when it is safe.

edwardsf

I don't buy that it is more accurate. Who sez? Dealers? Galves? This is what dealers claim when Galves supports them. When it doesn't they are not gonna care that you have read Galves. They will still come up with other ways to favor themselves. Apparently, dealers use the secret book to lowball trade ins. And they use it to boost price of used cars they got in either trade in or an auction. At best, having Galves is slightly useful if the dealer mentions it and then the buyer says "ah hah! you are lying." But if the buyer does not believe in the hype of Galves, then who cares what secret book the salesman has?

Much more important than buying the secret book is reading this forum and finding out what other hard bargaining buyers are getting for they trade ins and what other buyers are giving up for used cars.

Okay, so you are not in car sales. Galves sales?

roadburner

Okay, so you are not in car sales. Galves sales?

Lighten up Francis- and stop acting so paranoid; gbrozen is simply providing useful information with no hidden agenda. How hard is that to understand?

zatires

Saw an ad for 2011 335 diesel in one of the local dealer's websites, said 4000 off MSRP. I guess there is like a diesel credit by BMW.