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2013 and earlier BMW 3-Series Prices Paid and Buying Experience

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Comments

  • yes, congrats......... :)
  • ikolnikoln Posts: 6
    Thank you oxacuu. This is very helful! I did not know that dealers could also mark up the MF. They told me it was 0.002 for march 2007 and it was set by BMW.

    I wonder if April would bring better MF and Residual value on 36 month...
  • delta737hdelta737h Posts: 603
    You can capitalize the first payment as well as the security deposit and would be well advised to do so. If you like, supply me with some details (i.e., MSRP, sell price, Acq. fee, sales tax rate, MF, Residual Factor, etc.) and I'll be glad to run the calculations.

    I have found THREE HUGE PROBLEMS with many leasing software packages used by many dealers across the country and that is this...

    When first payments a rolled into the lease (capitalized), they are (1) frequently calculated incorrectly which means that (2) sales tax is improperly calculated and, (3) lease contracts are often completed incorrectly; yet, fund providers often overlook it!!! Unbelievable!!! The funny thing is that I've programmed a TI-83/84 graphics calculator to perform any lease calculation imaginable. The clue is this... if you see a rolled in payment that DOES NOT MATCH or agree with the remaining payment streams, there is a problem! ALL PAYMENTS MUST BE IDENTICAL- INCLUDING THE ROLLED IN PAYMENT!

    At any rate, this is what can happen when people, who aren't mathematicians, try to create complex lease software requiring some degree of mathematical expertise. I spent two days with a leading software developer in January explaining why his payment calculations are inaccurate. He finally agreed and promised to fix the error but, so far, hasn't done so... hmmmm. I also informed two Cleveland, Ohio area dealerships that I refuse to send them any more business unless (A) All calculations are performed correctly and (B) lease worksheets and contracts are completed correctly. I'm sick of dealership indifference, arrogance, and incompetence!

    Consumers need to be more demanding and hold those with whom they do business accountable and responsible. There is too much incompetence in this country. And, so it's no wonder that we have to import foreign talent to do most of our math, science, and engineering! Yikes!!!
  • wbb56wbb56 Posts: 38
    How does the math look on this deal--I know the dealer is marking up the MF slightly:

    2007 335i Sedan
    MSRP: $47,795.00
    Neg. Price: $45,755.00
    36 mos. 12k miles
    Residual 63%/$30,110.85
    Doc. fee: $99.50
    Sec. Deposits: $4800
    Taxes (NC): $746.39
    Total Initial Payment: $5618.17
    Monthly Payment: $571.68

    Thank you very much!
  • Hello,

    i am in the market to buy a 06 used BMW and came across this deal with a private party. i am making an offer for 33000, Am i paying too much or is that price fair enough ?

    YOur input would be very helpful in making my decision. THanks

    Fully loaded 2006 BMW 330i in excellent condition
    with only 14,631miles.
    Registration paid through February 2008.
    Non-smoker car
    50k Bumper to Bumper Warranty
    50K Full-Maintenance Warranty
    Exterior:Titanium Silver, Interior: Black Leather

    We are moving out of town, so car is priced to
    move quickly. KBB value in excellent condition is
    $39,010. Asking only $36,500. Clean Carfax report
    available.

    Local sale only. No shipping. Thanks.

    OPTIONS:
    Automatic Transmission/Steptronic
    Premium Package
    Sports Package
    Navigation System
    Stability Control
    Telescoping Wheel
    ABS (4-Wheel)
    Air Conditioning
    Traction Control
    Premium Sound(logic 7)
    Dual Front Air Bags
    Xenon Headlights
    Front Side Air Bags
    Moon Roof
    Dual Power Seats
    Leather
    MP3 (Single CD) AM/FM Stereo
    Sport Pkg
    DVD System
    Integrated Phone
    Premium Wheels
    Cruise Control
  • delta737hdelta737h Posts: 603
    Re: #7552

    wbbb56:

    You're missing the money factor. Also, I have no clue how you arrived at a total initial payment of 5618.17. Could you itemize this? Also, are any sums being financed in this lease? If so, what and how much? What is your sales tax rate? It looks as though the sum of the payment streams are taxed. Why is the security deposit so high? Yee gads, that exceeds 8x the monthly payment!

    I love doing the math but there are just too many unknowns for me to comment intelligently.
  • Delta,
    I bow down to you and your TI-83/84. You have just brought something CRITICAL to my attention: the spreadsheet that I use to calculate all the diffent capitalization scenarios adds tax to the fees when I capitalize them, which is INCORRECT since there is no tax on these fees. Interestingly enough, I think the payment calculator on leaseguide.com makes the same mistake. Thanks very much for that very important detail!

    Now, you mention that you can capitalize security deposits. I was told very explicitly that this was NOT possible. Is it possible that the ability to capitalize the security deposit(s) varies from state to state? If I could capitalize my security deposit, I would do it in a heartbeat. Any more detail you have on this would be very appreciated.
  • wbb56wbb56 Posts: 38
    Sorry for leaving so much out.. let's see if I can make this a little clearer..

    The dealer quoted me a money factor of .00018 (marked up from .00016). I reduced the money factor to .000131 by making (7) additional security deposits of $600. Total of (8) for $4800. The additional amounts for the initial payment are: $571.68 (1st payment); $146.99 (upfront sales tax); $99.50 (doc fee)-for a total of $5618.17.

    The total Cap Cost is $46,480.00--which much include an acquisition fee of $725 (marked up $100). The monthly Depreciation is $454.70; Monthly lease charge is $100.33=$555.03. Sales tax in NC is 3% ($16.65).. So the total lease is $571.68.

    It all seems to make sense--but I'd like to make sure before signing the dotted line!

    Thanks again!
  • bmwnbbmwnb Posts: 4
    Hello Delta,

    Wow you are the lease guru aren't you? I leased 3 BMW's in the past (always from BMW Financial) and never had a clue about the lease tricks out there. Now I am in the market for a new BMW and before I go to a dealership I want to know what the lease terms are and not to be taken for a ride. What do I look for so I can get a good term like Donna did, I need a car now and don't have much time to shop around. I am looking into a 328 sedan with 10/12 miles a year. I would greatly appreciate your help.

    Izabela
  • Not even a single reply,is this exclusively for people leasing only or what ?
  • I just ordered a 328i sedan, and wanted to share my experience. First off, thanks to all of you participating on this forum. I can’t imagine I would have done as well as (I think) I did without all the knowledge I’ve gotten from reading this and other forums, like Bimmerfest and e90post.

    This will be my fourth BMW, starting with a 1999 323i, then a 2003 325iT, and currently a 2004 X3 (through ED). I bought the last 2 through the same CA at my local dealer. I’d gotten good, no-hassle deals before, and expected the same this time, especially as a repeat customer. My target, based on what I’d read online, was Edmunds invoice plus adv. and MACO, plus $500; plus a lease at the buy rate and $625 acq. fee. I would have gone up $500 over that to maintain the relationship with the CA and dealer, and avoid having to shop around. But the offer wasn’t close, at $1000 over invoice, $825 acq. fee and buy rate plus .0003. Maybe I was more aggressive this time on the price I was asking for (basically was getting half-way between invoice and MSRP before), and it was the first lease for me (so we weren’t negotiating lease terms before), and the last one was an ED. Also, the CA went from being the internet guy to a salesman on the floor, so I don’t know if that affected the deal he could offer.

    I wanted to get the deal arranged within a week, as the March lease rates on the 328i sedan were good (.00125) and I wanted to lock that in. I sent out 8 email inquiries to 6 Bay Area dealers and 2 others, asking for the above terms. I would have sent out more, but surprisingly, many dealer websites give you no way to correspond just by email (no way to send comments, and they only want to contact you by phone. To me, that’s not “internet sales!”). In some cases, I got around this by looking at their sales team info to find the internet guy, then emailed him directly.

    I got responses from only 4 dealers. One said he could do the $500 over invoice but not the lease terms. One offered $250 over invoice, but gave no lease terms, and didn’t respond to my followup email asking for these. One responded but never gave a price.

    I ended up ordering the car from Peter Pan BMW in San Mateo. The CA accepted the terms I offered from the start. I met with him on Friday and there were no surprises, his figures matched mine. He had already done a vehicle inquiry in the system and gave me a printout for a car already in production (status 150-production started), configured as I wanted it. The CA was very professional, and the whole thing took only 15-20 minutes. The CA suggested I put a little bit ($100) down, which I did, to lower the payment below $500, to reduce the amount of the security deposits (I planned on doing the 7 additional).

    So here’s what I ended up with:
    328i sedan, Titanium Silver, grey/walnut, Steptronic, premium, nav, satellite, folding rear seats.
    MSRP: $41,345
    Invoice (including adv. and $400 MACO): $38,645.
    Sales price: $39,145 ($2,200 under MSRP)
    Lease terms: 30-month, 15k/yr, $100 down, $625 acq. fee, MF .00076 (.00125 - .00049), 66% residual.
    Tax rate 7.75%, license $318, tire fee $8.75, doc fee $45.

    Monthly payment: $499.56
    Drive off: $4982.55 (1st pmt., $4000 sec. deps., $100 down, license and fees, and $11.24 tax (on the $100 and the $45).

    Car should arrive in late May. I had originally wanted to do an ED in September to coincide with the Frankfurt auto show, but couldn’t due to a work conflict. Instead, I’ll plan on going in 2009. This is why I did the 30-month lease; so the lease would expire in Nov. 2009, around the time I’d get my next car from a Sept. 2009 ED.
  • delta737hdelta737h Posts: 603
    Re: #7555

    Greetings Real!

    No need to bow down to me and my trusty TI-83. It's a great little tool that gets the job done. Years ago, I used to teach leasing classes using the TI 83. I would call Texas Instruments and borrow 30 calculators. When they arrived, I would down load my program into the calculators for students to use. The class was a big success and I received very good evaluations. Several students purchased a TI-83. TI should have given me a sales commission!

    Unfortunately my schedule wouldn't allow me to continue doing the classes as it requires tons of preparation. Hopefully, I'll be able to resume in a few years. Those w/o programmable calcs are best served by an electronic spreadsheet like Excel. In fact, I've been meaning to create an Excel lease program but just haven't gotten around to it.

    I have also written a seven page paper that discusses capitalization and computing sales tax. If you like, send me a private email indicating your email address and I will send it via an attachment. The math is fairly easy to follow which brings me to the following...

    Mathematically speaking, you can capitalize anything. I'm from Ohio and have often capitalized security deposits. In fact, my TI 83 is programmed to do it. There is a pause in the calculation where the payment w/o security is shown and it prompts me to indicate the security deposit. Some are rounded up to the next $25 or $50 and so I need to know this criteria beforehand. I have two options at this point; either (1) enter the security deposit if I want it capitalized or (2) enter zero if I don't want it capitalized. It's that simple.

    In Ohio, security deposits are not taxable; acquisition fees are taxable and so, as you've indicated, it's important to separate taxable items from non-taxable items.

    I can't imagine why a fund provider or state would forbid capitalizing security deposits. It just doesn't make any sense. There certainly isn't anything in the Consumer Leasing Act's Regulation M that would forbid capitalizing the security deposit.

    Just to give you an idea, here is a typical scenario for an '07 Acura TSX w/o Nav...

    MSRP 28,760.00

    Selling Price 26,700.00

    Amounts Financed

    1st Month’s Payment 361.71
    Security Deposit 375.00
    Acquisition Fee 595.00
    Sales Tax @6.00% x 35 x 329.77 = 692.52

    Capitalized Costs

    Gross Capitalized Cost 28,724.23
    Capitalized Cost Reduction 0.00
    Adjusted Capitalized Cost 28,724.23

    Residual

    Residual Factor 0.62
    Residual Value (Residual Factor × MSRP) 17,831.20

    Cost of Money/Term

    Money Factor 0.00127
    Term (months) 36

    Lease Payment

    Monthly Lease Payment including Sales Tax 361.71
    Monthly Lease Payment excluding Sales Tax 340.99

    Charges Payable at Lease Origination

    License, Title, Registration Fees 50.00
    Total Amount Due at Lease Signing 50.00

    GAP Coverage Included
    Annual Mileage Allowance: 10,000
    Disposition Fee: None
    Excess Mileage @ $0.15 per mile
    Reg. M Disclosure: NA

    The $329.77 payment above is an intermediate calculation and is computed only for the purpose of computing state sales tax. Because acquisition fees are taxable in Ohio, this payment includes the acquisition meaning that the acquisition fee was capitalized. However, the security deposit is not taxable and is excluded from this payment. In good 'ole Ohio, the total payments are taxed and are due at lease inception. Observe that the Ohio sales tax is computed as follows...

    0.06 x 35 x 329.77 = 692.52

    Note that 35, not 36, appears as a factor. The reason is that the 1st payment of 329.77 was capitalized in the lease and so the remaining 35 payments of 329.77 already include repayment of the first payment (i.e., the first payment is being amortized in the lease).

    The calculations can be tricky and it's very easy to make mistakes if you're not careful. I have yet to find a dealer that can correctly make these payment and tax computations much less correctly complete lease agreements. Usually, I have to step them through the process. Some are very cooperative; others resist. I simply won't do business with the latter.

    I hope this helps.

    John
    Medina, Ohio

    PS: I'll be glad to intercede on your behalf if you would prefer that I speak with your dealer about rolling in the security deposit. Maybe they just don't know how to do the calculation!
  • delta737hdelta737h Posts: 603
    Hello Izabela!

    Flattery will get you everywhere! I'm just glad that I can help. Check out my post #7560. There, you will find a scenario that can serve as a "checklist". In fact, it can serve as a model for a one page lease proposal. If you would like some assistance in structuring such a proposal and all associated calculations, please send me a private email and I'll be delighted to help you. The beauty of a one page proposal is that it saves time and money. Simply FAX or email it to the dealer and see what shakes!

    A good place to start your research, as you know, is right here at edmunds. Check the MSRP, Invoice Pricing, holdbacks, incentives, etc. Your goal should be to arrive at a very competitve and realistic selling price. Selling price is where the story begins. Afterall, every leased car is a sold car. Look for special lease programs at the finance captive websites. Cut and paste the advertisements and study them very carefully. They're often jam packed with useful information. You can determine residuals, residual factors, money factors, etc. NEVER EVER MAKE A DECISION BASED ON PAYMENT ALONE! It can be a deadly mistake!

    It's still a good idea to call two or three dealers to confirm the information. Always ask for a decision maker and not an order taker! I always ask them if they know what the hell they're doing... my weak attempt at humor! Now, sometimes dealers will inflate money factors to include reserves. A dealer is compensated by the fund provider for writing a lease at a higher money factor. The compensation, of course, ultimately comes from you. It used to be that dealers collected this compensation over the term of the lease or at lease end. And so the money owed the dealer was held in "reserve". Nowadays, the compensation is paid almost immediately. I always ask for the money factor with 0% reserves. If the dealer insists on say, a 1% reserve level, I simply deduct it from the sell price but I don't tell them. Sneaky huh? Reserves work in much the same way that points do on a mortgage loan. A 1% reserve means the dealer is compensated 1% of the adjusted cap cost (excluding acquisition or bank fees). A fund provider just isn't going to allow a dealer to earn a reserve on their own acquisition fee. So, if the adjusted cap is $25,000 excluding the acquistion fee, a 1% reserve means the dealer earns $250 for writing the lease at the higher money factor.

    DO NOT BUY GAP INSURANCE FROM A DEALER... EVER! Check with your insurance carrier. As a rule of thumb, GAP coverage should cost no more that 0.1% of the MSRP annually. So, for an MSRP of $40,000, that means GAP should cost no more than $40 annually. A GAP rider would cover you in the event that your car is totaled. It covers the difference between what the insurance company pays and what you actually owe.

    Another important consideration is that after you lease, create a lease amortization schedule just like you would for a mortgage loan. This tracks your outstanding lease balance in case you want to terminate your lease early. You would be shocked at the number of fund providers who seem to have difficulty computing lease balances or payoffs!!! My brother's neighbor leased a jag and he terminated early. The fund provider gave him an inflated lease balance that reflected $700 more than what he actually owed! I'm not talking about excess wear/tear charges either and there were no late charges as this guy always paid early. Too many people place too much faith in the payoff figures given them by their fund providers and that can be a HUGE HUGE MISTAKE!

    In any lease transaction, you must do the math correctly. Not knowing how to do the math is the kiss of death in this business! It's like placing a sweet little innocent guppy in a tank with a great white shark. The dealer could swallow you whole and you won't even know it! ALWAYS BE IN CONTROL OF THE DEAL. If you lease often, it would behoove you to educate yourself on leasing. You should be able to do the calculations in your sleep! The payoff (no pun intended) is that you'll be well positioned to negotiate confidently and you won't be afraid to tell a dealer that they're wrong when they're wrong. I have no problem doing it! The problem with me is that I'm like 20 bulls in a china shop; I have ZERO diplomacy.

    Should you have questions or concerns, please let me know.

    John
    Medina, Ohio
  • dhanleydhanley Posts: 1,531
    "Not even a single reply,is this exclusively for people leasing only or what ?"

    No--but being critical of people for not answering you in two hours doesn't usualy engender replies. :)

    (the price seems too high)
  • delta737hdelta737h Posts: 603
    Greetings wbb!!!

    I like your initials wbb... sounds like a radio station!

    Okay, much better! You've given me everything I need to navigate successfully! So, let's try to address your concerns. Here is what I have...

    '07 BMW 335i sedan

    MSRP 47,795.00

    Sell Price 45,755.00

    Amount Financed
    Acquisition Fee 725.00

    Gross Cap 46,480.00
    Cap Reduction 0.00
    Adjusted Cap 46,480.00

    Residual (12K miles @63%) 30,110.85

    Money Factor 0.00131 (you indicated 0.000131... I think this is inaccurate)

    Term 36 months

    NC Tax Rate 3.00%

    Payment w/o tax 555.03
    Tax @3.00% 16.65
    Payment with Tax 571.68
    Total NC Tax 746.37

    Amounts DUE at lease inception...

    Security Deposit 4800.00
    Doc Fee 99.50
    1st Payment 571.68
    Tax 146.99

    TOTAL DUE 5,618.17

    Note that the 146.99 tax was calculated as follows...

    0.03 x (4800 + 99.50) = 146.99

    Observe that your security deposit is taxed in NC. However, at lease end, you are entitled to receive a refund of the tax on any returned security deposit...

    http://www.dornc.com/practitioner/sales/bulletins/section35.pdf

    Other than this caveat, all calculations appear to be spot on.

    Good luck!

    John
    Medina, Ohio
  • Delta,
    This is extraordinarily helpful. The idea of walking out the door paying absolutely nothing is very nice. You must have the patience of a Saint if you are willing to walk car salesmen through this. ;) I'm PM'ing you right now, looking forward to reading your paper.
  • tcn2ktcn2k Posts: 277
    Why is most post here, folks put money down on lease for? Never put anything down, it's a lease for crying out loud!

    I got my 335i sedan msrp of about 45k. My monthly was $589.00 which includes tax. 12k miles a year. With due at signing of $987.00. That includes 1st month, license and registration. No security deposit etc.
  • delta737hdelta737h Posts: 603
    tcn,

    Your point regarding a down payment (dp) is well taken. Buying or leasing shouldn't matter. If you have lots of equity in your old car, try to sell it! Don't trade it if you can avoid it. When interest rates are low coupled with the fact that a car is a depreciating asset, it quickly becomes a no brainer that a dp is not very prudent. Remember, a car doesn't need to be driven off the lot to be considered "used"... the instant it's titled, it becomes "used"!

    Additionally, if you total your car, it's not likely you'll see a return of your down payment.

    I will never make a dp whether I buy or lease... it doesn't matter.
  • tadowtadow Posts: 1
    Redbaron, What dealer are you working with? I am in South Florida and can't get the dealers to budge off of MSRP. So much demand here they apparently don't need to. So I am trying to find a reasonable dealer in Florida. I am looking at a 335i coupe. Test drove it yesterday.... so sweet. Thanks!
  • i apologize for being so critical and so impatient. i was in a rush to make a decision, but after some research i found out that its a BMW Trade Assist vehicle and cant be CPO'ed so there it goes.

    After toiling in all the BMW forums, i finally decided that Leasing is the way to go for me personally.

    so i have to start educating myself about leasing now.
  • bmwnbbmwnb Posts: 4
    Delta,

    You WOW'ed me again!!! The idea of a 1 page lease is perfect and your advise of not looking at the monthly payment is a new concept I just learned from you. This is the deal; I have a local BMW dealer that is a client of mine (my company does all their bankcard processing and I am their Relationship Manager), my contact at the dealership referred me to one of the sales manager to "take good care of me" so I believe I can get a little better treatment than in the past when I just walked into the local BMW dealership. Now on another note I was able to be referred to a Lexus dealership by a VIP person at Toyota. I met the sales person and test drove a RX400 which I liked a lot. The MSRP for this car is 48K and he said my "VIP" price would be around 42K, however he also told me that Lexus really does not have really good lease programs as BMW does so that would bring my payment up. I went to carsdirect.com and priced the car it comes up to pretty much the same as my "VIP" pricing. I like the Lexus but I want to keep my monthly payments below $500. Please enlighten me if the Lexus might be a better choice even if my payments will be higher but it will be a better payoff at the end of the lease.

    Thank you sooooooooo much for now,

    Izabela
  • delta737hdelta737h Posts: 603
    Izabela,

    It is difficult to say whether or not the Lexus would be a better choice as I don't have residuals or lease financing rates as well as acquisition fees, etc to make that judgement.

    If you can get these data, I'll be in a much better position to crunch the numbers and provide details. If you revisit my post #7560, you'll have a good idea of what I need.

    Buying from those with whom you have an established business relationship can be tricky and so I try to avoid those situations.

    Good luck and let me know what you find.

    Best,

    John
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    leaseguide.com <--- start there
  • delta737hdelta737h Posts: 603
    sactokenn,

    Yup, all the numbers square. Enjoy your new car!
  • wbb56wbb56 Posts: 38
    John,

    Thanks very much for taking the time to review my lease details! And thanks for the info on the tax refund.. I really appreciate your help..
  • poorprofpoorprof Posts: 109
    Hi all:

    I am helping a friend lease a 07 328 coupe with the premium package in metalic silver. I have learned about multiple security deposits and will do that. I live in Los Angeles. I am looking for a 2 year lease.

    ANy thoughts or suggestions.
  • david22david22 Posts: 20
    Does anyone know what credit score is required to get a decent lease deal? And if you have below average credit should you even bother applying for a lease? Also is the 335i Coupe lease deal on the bmwusa site good? It's 3500 out of pocket, 499 a month, base plus auto transmission....thank you.
  • Contact BMW of Palm Springs Internet department.
  • I was told that with BMW they don't look at your score but your overall credit history and its either you get it or don't. My score was only 650 and I still got approved for elite credit with BMW.
  • Has anyone used www.southbankleasing.com?

    Here is the package that I wanted on the 2007 335i coupe:
    Sparkling Graphite Exterior with Red Dakota Leather interior
    Premium Package
    Sport Package
    Steptronic w/ paddle shifters
    DVD/Navigation

    And the lease terms were 36 months, $0 down, 15K miles/year.

    I was given a monthly payment of $593 inclusive of sales tax with a walk away tag of around $1500.

    Has anyone used this company before? Is this deal legit or am I wasting my time?
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