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2013 and earlier BMW 3-Series Prices Paid and Buying Experience

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Comments

  • skepmodskepmod Posts: 6
    Dealer made $470 ($900 over invoice, less $530 for MACO and Training). I paid $31,500 on a $33,175 MSRP. Depending on the car and options you buy, I have read that you should expect a discount between $1200 and $2500.

    I saw your earlier posting. Congratulations on walking out when you were bait-and-switched. Good luck on your purchase.
  • viannavianna Posts: 1
    I got this offer, is it a good deal?

    (Everything on invoice price)
    328i Seden $29,810
    Apline White $0
    Auto $1,210
    Sport Package $1,455
    Paddle Shifters $90
    Premium Package $2,960
    Ipod Adaptor $365
    Destination Charge $775
    -------------------------------------
    Total $36,665

    They offer me $37,900 and they said it is $600 over invoice.

    However, when I added $600 to the above total, it is only $37,265.00. Then I questioned the sales manager that is not my number I add up. He said it includes Maco $380 and Training $180. (still $75 missing when I do the match at home) and those Maco & Training fee are part of the invoice price.

    I am so confused now!!! :confuse:
    Maco & Training are included in invoice price?
    Is it a good deal?

    Thanks!
    - First Time Potential BMW Buyer! :shades:
  • skepmodskepmod Posts: 6
    Vianna, from what I have read, MACO and Training fees are legit costs that the dealer incurs. MACO pays for BMW advertising in the area and Training pays for (I believe) training dealership staff.

    I just placed an order for a 328i. I paid $900 over invoice, including MACO and Training fees ($530). So, the dealer made $370.

    Hope this information helps you come up with a good number to counter with.
  • andynn002andynn002 Posts: 17
    When i took the 328i sedan for a lease, the selling price was just 465$ above invoice.The only extras i paied was for the tire protection plan and bank charges of 725$.
    The invoice price does include MACO and Training fees from the dealer side. I guess the edmunds invoice price doesnt include this.
    Good luck !!!
  • skepmodskepmod Posts: 6
    Remember, not all dealerships may incur MACO fees. If it isn't part of a cooperative advertising area, they may not charge the fee.

    That said, I don't understand the need to break it out as a fee. When I buy groceries, Albertsons doesn't charge me a separate fee for their ad budget.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 29,117
    If you negotiate for $XXX over invoice, they are going to break out any differences...

    If you offer $37K for a car, then there shouldn't be any extra "invoice charges".

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • hi all i'm live in ny and looking to lease or possibly finance the 328i conv. but i just have tons of questions and you guys' purchase experience is needed.

    first, what's the minimum credit rating needed to lease it? mine ranges from 680s to 780s from the 3 bureaus and i dunno if that's enough. would it be enough to qualify for a lease or a good apr?

    second, is it advantageous to put more down payment when i am leasing? what's the typical down payment for financing for a bmw 3 series?

    third, i see special lease offers with $x,xxxx amount due at signing but doesn't that exclude hidden fees?

    and lastly, i live in nyc and was thinking of bayside bmw or rallye but i dunno how the experiences are. any previous experience from them would be awesome you can also email me advice if you want

    thank you!
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    Lease with a credit rating over 680, you're fine. BMW and most manus are lenient with credit for a lease.

    2. Never put money on a lease. Negotiate the msrp and get the money factor at the buy rate. Never put money on a lease. Ever.

    3. Extra fees will pop up and ignore the "special offers." Visit leaseguide.com to get a full breakdown on leasing. You need to be fully aware of how every number plays into a lease. It's far more complicated than buying a car.

    Always negotiate the sale price of a car before you move on to negotiating the money factor.
  • pdude1pdude1 Posts: 47
    That's great advice on the negotiating for a price and not over invoice.

    On the statement made about getting the money factor to be same as buying, what do you mean? I mean since a typically a lease is 1 - 3 years and I don't think most people would finance for that long as they would mostly do 4-5. Plus after the 3 years, then there's still the residual that needs to be paid off.

    On a side note, I talked to Shelly bmw in LA and they gave me a rough verbal quote of for a 50K car. If it was a 335i, then it would be around 900/month and a 535i (@50K so base model) about 500/month. I'm sure difference is money factor.
  • andynn002andynn002 Posts: 17
    Exaactly..Never ever put more money on the lease...

    The credit score should be fine but they also check the credit limit you have...for e.g. i had a cradit score of 720 but my limit was damn less at 2000$ ...so my credit didnt approve ..it also takes various other factors like number of years of employment and number of years at your residence etc etc...mine was 2 to 3 yrs for these which is again less...so credit didnt approve..in order to fix that(since i was smitten by the black bimmer there ;) ) i gave a refundable security deposit of 3500$) but as much as possible dont go for the security deposit also....
    money factor as my sales person said is .00190 which is out of book for the first customer..when you are a recurring customer it can be less he said..i dont think this is true but i didnt care much...i have heard better money factor rates...

    the residual has to be high in order for your lease to be less...my residual was .63 since it was 36 months/36000 if you go higher miles it will go down to .61 which begins u gonna pay a high lease...

    this is all i could make out from my deal...mine was also a first exp....hope this helps...
  • gplayerjrgplayerjr Posts: 10
    :shades: I am a BMW client advisor of 5 years and I would like to shed some light for some of your questions....first of all, accept the fact that you will not get the manufacturer's lease buy rate, I'm sure all of us with a mortgage are paying interest, for borrowing the banks $, it's no different on a lease, what can be negotiated is the money factor used over what BMW's market support is for the vehicle that particular month (typically a .00040 profit is made) that's not even a full percentage point!!!! BMW finance has set up lease rates that dealers must adhere to.....and the statement about returning BMW financial services clients being eligible for a lease rate reduction is true, but only applicable on certain BMW models....now, for some really good advice....when shopping for your new BMW, find a center and salesperson that you are comfortable working with...this is by far the most important ingredients to putting your deal together...keep in mind that sales is a profit oreinted business and the dealer will make $, just make sure it is a FAIR profit......I've sold many BMW's over the years and have taken all kinds of different deals b/c of variable circumstances, every deal is unique and has it's own identity, so don't try to match another client's deal dollar for dollar, that will save you a headache or two right there...secondly, enjoy what you are about to buy, savor it in, when buying a premium product, expect premium prices and NO LESS than premium service....you will get what you pay for! BMW's are among the finest automobiles built, this is a product of desire, not necessarily a need....I hope I haven't offended anyone, this is not my intention....but rather put some of your minds at ease, relax when going in to shop, let your center and client advisor help...and if you don' t feel comfortable, don't proceed until you find the right advisor and center to help you get what you desire! Have a great day everyone!!!!!!! :shades:
  • manybmwsmanybmws Posts: 347
    Get the numbers on paper as soon as possible BEFORE you sign the paperwork or fork over the deposit.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 29,117
    first of all, accept the fact that you will not get the manufacturer's lease buy rate

    I got the buy rate on my last BMW lease... ;)

    You might want to accept the fact that other dealers might give the buy rate, and that potential buyers are free to shop around.. :surprise:

    Also.. I find that the service I get after the sale, has nothing to do with how good of a deal I got, in the first place....

    Of course, you are welcome to your opinions...

    regards,
    kyfdx

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • gplayerjrgplayerjr Posts: 10
    I guess you misunderstood what I said about everyone's deal being unique....have I ever done a buy rate deal--Yes...will it happen again--I'm positive...now, that being said, congrats on your fabulous deal.....Yes, you're right about people being free to shop around and many do....however, MOST of our clients really don't have the time nor want to spend their limited free time going from dealer to dealer trying to nickel and dime every cent they can get ....they want convenience, honesty, and the professionalism exhibited by client advisors across this country!

    Your personality type seems to be the one that will go to great lengths to get a "great deal".... to tell you the truth, a great deal is all based upon perception. One who perceives that they got a great deal and are happy with it, well, then they got a great deal!

    Eg: I just made a big screen flat panel TV purchase. I researched my butt off, read all of the forums and blogs, then finally decided upon a model. I shopped a couple different stores, but ended up buying it from the salesman that treated me the best...and I could have bought it for $150 less at another store....but I didn't. You want to know why.....I enjoyed the salesman I worked with, he knew his product, he gave me some installation advice, and he never B/S'd me! Guess what, I am happy with my purchase! Would the $150 I could have saved been nice to have, yeah, but I felt that the deal he offered was fair, and I just wanted to buy it from him, and I let him know such!

    Back to the topic at hand.....we all want a "good deal", including myself. I applaud you for your efforts and advice to all that read these boards, but remember one thing, if someone could have gotten a better deal somewhere else....let it go, and let them be happy with their purchase.....the last thing we want to do is ruin somebody's Happy Day!

    This is my last post regarding this topic, I hope everyone out there is enjoying their BMW's....I would like to see some feedback regarding the new models BMW is releasing...The new M3 (wow) The new X6 (gorgeous) and all new 1 Series....you guys let me know what you think, I am excited to see how the market accepts these new models!

    Safe motoring all!

    PS I am based in South Louisiana.....GOD's other country :)
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    1. The worst I've done on a lease buy rate is 2 points higher. The best was 1 point over the buy rate. I'm happy with both.

    2. MSDs are a fantastic way to cut your lease payment. Dealers that say MSDS don't help are lying. Dealers that refuse to do them are a good indicator you should move on. You can't find an ROI like an MSD. Especially in this climate.

    3. Always negotiate from invoice up. This is huge in a lease deal. Huge! Check leaseguide.com.

    4. A dealer telling you 1-2 years at a company or 1-2 years in your current home impacts their decision to lend to you...something is fishy.

    5. Emailing BMW dealerships with your offer does not cost you time. Avoid salespeople and go for the internet route.

    6. Salespeople can be useful but this is a car, remember it's just an appliance and it will be replaced (especially if you're leasing, which is just a longterm rental) . Work via the internet/phone. No need to go into the dealership until you've got to pick up your car. On my last BMW purchase I used the internet, phone and fax until the moment I had to come in for them to copy my passport.

    7. Get everything in writing. And watch that they don't jack you with bogus doc fees ($250 for documents) or tell you something untrue like GAP is needed on BMWFS leases.

    BMW FS is pretty good to deal with. But they screw up. I got rid of a 2006 E90 in April 2007 - BMW still reports that lease to credit agencies as an open account! :surprise: Yes, this has been going on for months. It'll get worked out eventually.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,655
    Gary

    Welcome to the board. It will be nice to have a BMW dealer post valuable information here on Town Hall. Also be sure to check out the "Stories From The Sales Frontlines" thread. I'm sure you've got some good stories (and some really good ones) about some of your customers.

    I'm sure the uninformed consumer pays the .004 bump on the money factor and doesn't even know what a money factor is or the super rich person who walks in, picks out a car, and says they want to lease it for XX months and don't care what the payment is or that they're mf is getting bumped.

    There are a lot of middle class and blue collar workers who are intelligent, very well informed, and with a little bit of research are willing to save the $25 or $40 per month and get the buy rate.

    Once the deal is done, Its done though. You are right in the fact that it doesn't matter if you've got a 335i for $500 per month and I got one for $600. They are both BMWs and great cars to drive and enjoy.

    My family has gotten the buy rate on all 5 BMWs we've leased since 2004 including my Dad's former '04 X5 3.0iA and his current '07 X5 3.0si, my Mom's former '05 530iA and her current '08 328xiA, and my wife's '07 X3 3.0si.

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • gplayerjrgplayerjr Posts: 10
    You are very right in the fact that the internet is a great tool in using to research and assist with your BMW lease/purchase.....but keep in mind that you will need a salesperson sooner or later.....It's the client advisor that will teach you how to use your BMW properly, assist with service issues, as well as keeping you "completely satisfied" as an owner....at least this is what I strive for......and I hope that my associates do as well!

    It's just kind of upsetting when folks on these boards look at a client advisor as an "order taker". I work long, hard hours for you....you being my customers! My number one goal is "COMPLETE CLIENT SATISFACTION" it's more work than some may think....I take the time to get to know my client and develop a professional business relationship....I am not going to go on and on about all of the little things that client advisors do, but I believe that you get back what you put in.....Let me tell you what has kept me in this business for almost 11 years now, 5 years with BMW, it's your smiling face :) as you drive away from my center in your new BMW, the sense of pride knowing that I had a direct impact in that customer's happiness. ;) It doesn't matter if it's their first or fifth BMW, it's always rewarding to know that I just delivered some "JOY".

    I hope that all of you shopping end up working with a good client advisor, one that is looking out for your best interest......

    I am open for any questions, and I wish you all a Great Weekend!
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    It's the client advisor that will teach you how to use your BMW properly, assist with service issues, as well as keeping you "completely satisfied" as an owner

    I doubt you mean teach the owner to hit the apex correctly. I spent a grand total of about 5 minutes with my salesperson for the delivery of my first e46. My e90, I talked with the smartly dressed German guy at the ED center for maybe two minutes. Anything I need to know I get from reading the manual. I have zero interest in listening to someone tell me how to tune a radio.

    As for service, I don't and never will contact a salesperson about service as he has nothing to do with it. You call service for a service appointment, not a salesguy.

    take the time to get to know my client and develop a professional business relationship

    My SA on my first 3 series spent two test drives with me - first a 325i 5MT ZSP. He called me a few weeks later when they got a 330i with 6 MT into stock. We unwrapped what would end up my 330i 6MT ZHP and drove it. The deal was done in about 1.5-2 hours including the detailing/prep of the car. I brought my bro-in-law to him, they drove a 325i 5MT ZSP and it was all done in under 2 hours. For my ED, I called him, got the price and that was that, In total I've spent maybe 5-6 hours around Jim. That's a perfect professional relationship...I come to him, tell him what I want, get it and pay him.

    I don't call him about service, about issues or really anything. I call him if I need to buy a car or if I am helping a friend buy a BMW. And now that he's retired, I'm stuck trying to find a decent SA for my next purchase. If I go ED again, I will probably call a guy from Bimmerfest as I know I can get the fast, no hassle, no "so what do you do for a living?" junk.
  • gplayerjrgplayerjr Posts: 10
    I'm over it guy.....you buy it your way, and I'll sell it my way! We don't have to be best friends with our clients, but a personalized delivery surely beats a see the keys, see the road, see ya later approach! Truly you understand, and I wish you well with your future buying experiences! ;)
  • Different customers have different requirements, and different sales people have different approaches. Since you're posting here, you're quite likely an enthusiast who cares about the marque, and it sounds like you do right by your customers. That's excellent and by no means universal - but it's also not always necessary. The buyers on this board are by and large more informed than the average customer, and will need (and tolerate) less hand-holding; they're also probably more driven by the deal. I picked up an Acura MDX Tech last month (partially driven by the side-by-side review vs. the X5 3.0 in the Roundel last year). I did a lot of research online, and found an internet price that I liked. I appreciated a) the savings on what is ultimately a commodity industrial product, however much I enjoy it, and b) the honesty and efficiency of my sales guy (at a dealership 800 miles from my home). I didn't need to be stroked or "sold", and I certainly didn't need him to show me how everything worked in the car. I just wanted a good price and honesty; I got those, and since then I've recommended several customers to him and I'll keep doing so.

    I think your approach is a great one; just realize that while some customers absolutely need the attention and hand holding - and in that case, they should pay for it in a higher price - others don't. Everybody's different. Keep up the good work!
  • so i've talked with their internet sales rep and she said there's a good chance i'll be approved but she said i should come to the dealership to apply for credit for the lease rather than applying online.

    wouldn't it be best to try for approval from BMWFS rather than going to the dealership and getting a rate from there?

    i just don't want to go there maybe get rejected or them trying to sell me another car that i wouldn't want.

    is BMWFS strict on the credit rating?
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    you can apply for the lease via fax, etc. But first agree upon terms.

    1. Get the final price of the car negotiated before you EVER talk payments
    2. Get the exact fees they're charging you
    3. Get the MF, residual, etc all settled before giving them your information

    All of this can be handled by phone/fax. #1 is super important when leasing. You negotiate just as if you were buying the car.

    4. You may want to consider Multiple Security Deposits (your internet sales rep should be able to explain them) as nothing currently can offer that same ROI. If the sales rep says MSDs are no good, come back here and we'll explain them to you. MSDs offer you 7+% ROI, which clobbers everything right now.

    Finally, BMWFS is pretty easy going about credit. 700+ and you're golden with them.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 29,117
    BMWFS might approve you on-line, but they won't give you a rate..

    The argument I've heard from BMW CAs is that the dealership can sometimes get you approved, if you fall just under the line... but, if you've already been rejected by BMWFS on-line, then they can't do anything about it..

    So.. even if pre-approved, you'll still have to fight with the dealer for the best rate, so you might as well go through them, first.. That way, if your credit score is borderline, then they may be able to help.

    Good luck!

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • jrkflajrkfla Posts: 21
    can get a new 2007, with 9 miles on it, basic 328 4 door with leatherette. only option is automatic. dealer is offering 29k. brand new car, full warranty. i think list was 34.

    i think i can do better, get another 1k. anyone have any comments or help? need to get a car on monday....

    comments welcome!!!!!
  • pdude1pdude1 Posts: 47
    I've been getting "Internet Sales" quotes for a 335i for 1200 to 1500 over invoice (includes maco, advertising, etc.) except for license and taxes. With the addons (prem, sport, ipod, easy acc) it comes to about 47K for manual and a little over 48K for auto. Does that sound good? I know a few months ago, most of the salespeople said they would only do at a max 500-1000 under msrp (not invoice).
  • x021627x021627 Posts: 148
    a friend easily got a 335 sedan with sport, cold, premium, ipod, nav for $500 over invoice. Not alot of work at all by him.

    Good Luck!
  • pdude1pdude1 Posts: 47
    Was that 500 over invoice and final? Or did the MACO and other advertising fees get added on?
  • x021627x021627 Posts: 148
    don't believe they charge maco in NJ. I could be wrong. The price was the invoice price calculated from pricing available on bimmerfest and excluded those two items.
  • stvroystvroy Posts: 29
    Here's a response I received from a dealer I'm working with. First let me say the internet sales person I was working with quickly handed this one off when I started asking very detailed and pointed questions (thanks to you guys)...

    "stvroy",

    Based on a $46,000 328cv

    Money factor with 7 extra deposits- .00236
    The .00245 rate you have is the invoice price from BMW and not available to the
    public.

    7 multiple deposits- $5800

    With 6932.84 due (deposits and 1st payment and fees) payment is $682.80.
    Of course at the end of the lease you would receive $5600 back.

    Please let me know if you have any other questions. Looking forward to wrapping
    this up for you.


    *************************************
    My response.....

    "Mr. Dealer"-

    Thanks for the information. I understand the .00245 is from BMW, but multiple sources I've found on my research say this rate is available. As your saying it's not, the 1.32% bump on the rate seems a bit high. So is the best deal on the spread? If it helps, I have a 792 FICO Score.

    I do lke the MSD option, but why is the secuity deposit $800 each? I thought it was in $50 increments based on the payment. If I put cash down to lower the payment, wouldn't the security deposit go down as well? I do like this model as I'm buying down the rate.

    I saw you based your numbers of a $46,000 328. As your coming into the deal now, here's what I'm interested in specifically as this number effects the residual and purchase price, and ultimately the payment.

    328i CONV

    Alpine White/Creme Interior

    *6-speed STEPTRONIC Auto
    *Cold Weather Package
    *Comfort Access

    MSRP - $46,500
    Invoice - $42,870

    What would I expect in terms of price when ordering the vehicle? I know the going rate on the coupe and sedan is $500 or so over invoice from a lot of people on the BMW forums. I know the numbers you provided were just on a generic $46K 328 selling at MSRP, but I would be interested in learning the specifics of the vehicle if I were to order.
    ******************************************

    So, what should I feel comfortable is a fair price. I'm thinking $44k on the purchase price and the bye rate of .00245. Is this realistic?
  • Here's a proposal I just finished:
    Lease Proposal

    2008/2009
    BMW
    335i

    Base MSRP $38,900*
    Invoice $35,790**

    Alpine White
    Black Leatherette
    Brushed Aluminum
    Cold Weather Package
    Sport Package
    Comfort Access System

    Destination & Handling
    Total MSRP as Built $42,875*
    Invoice $39,475**

    Proposal

    Sale Price = Invoice + $750
    Base Cap Cost = $40,225
    Acquisition Fee = $625
    Down Payment = $2000
    Net Cap Cost = $38,850
    Residual (64%) = $27,440***
    Money Factor = .0021
    Term = 36 Months
    Miles / Year = 10,000
    Monthly Lease Payment = $464.60****

    *According To BMWUSA.COM
    **According To EDMUNDS.COM
    *** Residual Calculated - MSRP $42,875 x .64 = $27,440
    **** Monthly Lease Payment Calculated
    [Base Cap Cost $40,225 + Acquisition Fee $625 - Down Payment $2000 = Net Cap Cost $38,850 - Residual $27,440 = $11,410 / 36 = $316.94 (Depreciation)
    MSRP $42,875 + Residual $27,440 = $70,315 x Money Factor .00210 = 147.66 (Lease Charge)
    Depreciation $11,410 + 36 Month Lease Charge $5,315.76 = $16,725.76 / 36 = Monthly Lease Payment $464.60]
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