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2013 and earlier BMW 3-Series Prices Paid and Buying Experience

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Comments

  • doanmquangdoanmquang Posts: 34
    Hi,

    Based on my region, the MSRP for 51,875. (Georgia)

    The factory Invoice: 48,260

    The dealer cost is 44,575 (Dealer Marketing support: 2500, Holdback 1,185)

    42,900 is kind high for me if you are taking into consideration that 4,500 miles.

    When is the warranty started for this car?

    If it is me! $39,000

    I bought the 335i 2009 back in Feb 2010. MSRP is 50415 and buying 37,000 + doc fee (399) + Tax(6%) + title & Reg ($39)

    I am sure this has more room to negotiate.....It is a used car.....regardless what dealer consider it is a demo or not....

    Good luck!
  • xeyexeye Posts: 162
    From the General Manager of a local major dealership in the Boston area:

    "We are invoiced for the car upon taking delivery, not before. The dealer body’s inventory is taken into account during production planning. If we are all loaded they can’t expect us to become overloaded. On the flip side, they need to boost production when we are low."

    Apparently, either the car is not paid for before assembly begins or it varies from dealership to dealership. I'll go with the former. As for inventory, there are some cars that are custom-ordered as mine was and are customer-delivered upon arrival, as well as a selection of cars that are ordered based on the features most commonly requested and held for sale on the lot, a.k.a. "dealer inventory".
  • doanmquangdoanmquang Posts: 34
    Car business is a lot of scam from the consumer stand point.

    Per car:

    Delivery Fee: $875 (which pass down to consumer
    Region Ad. fee: $500 (which pass down to consumer)
    Doc fee: $45 to $699 ($399 to $599 in Georgia)
    4 year free Maintenance: Sure...it is already included in the MSRP or Invoice price by raise the MSRP or invoice $2,000 for the new model.

    If you look at it...it is a lot of profit for the dealers to make in addition to :
    1) Trade-in
    2) Finance (ad rate if you have 760 above beacon score otherwise 3.99 or more)
    3) Extra Warranty service crap.....
    4) addition accessories installed on the car...etc..

    How much profit is enough....It must a lot for the dealer to satisfy....LOL

    For buyers....you are a suckers....
  • jimbresjimbres Posts: 2,025
    Are you shilling for TrueCar.com?

    You've posted 6 times in various (BMW, Ford, Honda, Infiniti & Nissan) prices paid & lease forums, & you've plugged this web site in each post. That might be an Edmunds TOS violation.
  • hokie28hokie28 Posts: 16
    I was told he gets a referral bonus ever time he mentions it.
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    edited June 2010
    From the General Manager of a local major dealership in the Boston area:

    "We are invoiced for the car upon taking delivery, not before. The dealer body’s inventory is taken into account during production planning. If we are all loaded they can’t expect us to become overloaded. On the flip side, they need to boost production when we are low."

    Apparently, either the car is not paid for before assembly begins or it varies from dealership to dealership. I'll go with the former. As for inventory, there are some cars that are custom-ordered as mine was and are customer-delivered upon arrival, as well as a selection of cars that are ordered based on the features most commonly requested and held for sale on the lot, a.k.a. "dealer inventory".


    The only point I was attempting to make was that, unlike GM and other companies, BMW isn't just building tons of cars with options the manufacturer thinks will be popular and then putting them out on lots, hoping they will sell.

    I never meant to imply (nor do I remember ever stating) that cars were paid for before going into production. Over 80%, if I remember correctly, are made to special order specifics...(ie., already spoken for, or sold), far more than, say... Chevrolet or Hyundai. The 80% number comes directly from the link...

    http://www.bmwusfactory.com/#/manufacturing/284/

    From the Manufacturing stats sub-page...

    80% of cars produced are customized for individual customers

    What I stated earlier was...

    BMW has no inventory. Every car coming off the assembly line is already sold to a dealer before assembly begins. BMW manufacturing is a totally separate entity within the company.

    Perhaps I should have used the word "allocated" or the phrase "intended for a specific dealer" instead of "sold".

    In any case, there isn't some huge parking lot of BMW's assembled and ready to be sold that aren't allocated to a specific destination, or dealer, if you like.
  • hopsing1hopsing1 Posts: 4
    Hi Rollo .. Thanks for sharing this info! Can you share who you worked with and did the 33,300 include everything else (doc fees, etc.) I look forward to your response!
  • hopsing1hopsing1 Posts: 4
    Buying a car is truly a nightmare! Was offered a 2010 BMW 328IX for $35,900 + tax, doc fee: $190, title fee: $120, etc! The car has "2 miles" - Sapphire Black, Automatic, premium package, heated steering wheel, xenon lights, no mats, no freebies .. it is what it is. Am I getting a deal? I need to give an answer by tomorrow!! Thank you in advance everyone!
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 29,795
    I think the only distinction between BMW and other makes, is that when every BMW goes into production, it is allocated to a specific dealer. It can still be transferred, diverted, etc, etc... I'm not sure it's very relevant to their financial structure.. They still have forecasts, production goals..

    Maybe it makes them more nimble than GM when it comes to adjusting output, but who wouldn't be? :surprise:

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • doanmquangdoanmquang Posts: 34
    Based on the option listed:

    The sticker price should be $41,690

    Delear cost approximate 35,474 ($2500 incentive, $951 hold back, Dest: $875, Regional Ad fee: $500 for Georgia)

    I think 33K to 33.5K is reasonable since 2011 model is out and someone stated there is extra $1,000 discount for 2010 model.

    Today June 30 is the last day of the month....You get the deal you want....

    Buying car is very fun for me since I have no urgent of getting one and I am very patience. I deal mostly through email and phone until I got the deal finalize before I walk into the dealer.

    Good luck
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    edited June 2010
    I think the only distinction between BMW and other makes, is that when every BMW goes into production, it is allocated to a specific dealer. It can still be transferred, diverted, etc, etc... I'm not sure it's very relevant to their financial structure.. They still have forecasts, production goals..

    Maybe it makes them more nimble than GM when it comes to adjusting output, but who wouldn't be?


    From a financial standpoint, not having a ton of pre-made units (cars, toasters, etc.) sitting on a lot/in a warehouse can make a considerable difference in inventory cost, especially if your suppliers are the ones carrying the component/raw materials inventory. Your cash can stay fluid, allowing for maximum flexibility. As the old saying goes....Cash is always King!

    On the other hand, if the demand suddenly increases for your product (in BMW's case, say MB suddenly disappeared), you may lose out on a sudden demand spike that gets filled by others. Odds of that in this case are pretty low.

    And, I agree with your last line. In an age of so much information exchange, its ironic that its as difficult now as it has ever been to get anything special and unique from American automakers. Instead of more flexibility from the manufacturer, we have less.

    I remember when the Mustang first came out. You could specify ANY color, and make your car truly one of a kind. There was a guy that lived in my neighborhood about 15 years older than me at the time, and he ordered a special color blue Mustang in 1964, I believe. It was the only factory Mustang I have EVER seen with a white wrinkle-paint top and special hood stripes that was delivered from the factory that way.

    Unfortunately, even though he babied the car, sometime in the late 1970's he fell in the sights of a drunk driver, and was rear-ended, making his already "compact" car far more compact...ergo, totaling it.

    It was truly a one-of-a-kind.
  • xeyexeye Posts: 162
    edited June 2010
    Good post, and I apologize that I apparently missed this one previously. What you describe fits with the way my GM explained the process for my particular car and explains what he meant by having an order slot available for my particular vehicle in week xx a couple of months ago when I put in the build order.

    The web site you supplied also made for fascinating reading and also explains how BMW managed to include the H/K Surround Stereo in my 2011 335i xDrive while consistently omitting it from the list of components on the on-line tracking system.

    Having said all that, it still makes me wonder why they had to hold up my car and apparently 11,000 other BMWs in port locations across the U.S. for a few weeks in late May for what I was told was a "seat campaign" - not quite a recall, but enough to require flying in engineers from Germany to (at least) New Jersey to resolve some issue. I never did find out what happened, and it wasn't restricted to 3 Series vehicles.

    I also went back through our correspondence and didn't find any reference to "Paid for" prior to manufacture, but rather "Sold to" prior to manufacture. In fact, you are correct that "Allocated to" a particular dealership is a more accurate statement. Even that can change en route as that was how we got my wife's 2008 328xi. It was already built and slated for a New Jersey dealership when it was re-routed to Massachusetts for us.

    For my next BMW, I'd like to try for European Delivery. I've heard several times that it can be quite an experience. Perhaps, in the short term, I'll take a vacation in South Carolina, take the plant tour, and maybe make an appearance at the Hilton Head Concours d'Elegance? :shades:
  • hopsing1hopsing1 Posts: 4
    Thanks for the tip! Got the car for $34,000!
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    For my next BMW, I'd like to try for European Delivery. I've heard several times that it can be quite an experience. Perhaps, in the short term, I'll take a vacation in South Carolina, take the plant tour, and maybe make an appearance at the Hilton Head Concours d'Elegance?

    I have yet to read about anyone taking European delivery of a BMW and being anything less than 110% happy about doing it.

    And, the discount for taking European delivery usually more than compensates for a couple of plane tickets.

    But, the SC delivery is a very pleasant experience as well. Getting to drive some sporty BMW's on the Performance Center closed track (they openly tell you...."Drive it like you stole it!"...) ain't all bad, either.

    I've toured the plant 3 times, and each time I came away amazed with just how clean a modern auto manufacturing facility can be....
  • doanmquangdoanmquang Posts: 34
    Hey,

    You are welcome! At least I help to save you $1,900 to put back in your pocket.

    Have you tried to negotiate 33K and pump up to 33.5K and threat to walkaway from the deal.....LOL...

    You must be persistence and patience in the negotiation process. It indicates you are in control and be willing to walk out if the deal does not fit the budget.

    I am in the process of looking for one 328i 2009 or 328I 2010 model but I decide to wait for a better deal or get MB E350. My wife already got 335i 2009 sedan.
  • 20carguy20carguy Posts: 8
    I have watched and read many of the posts on Edmunds and have been reluctant to write anything but I thought I would give you all some common sense advice.

    Buying a BMW or any other make is not rocket science. I'm in the only business in the world whereby the manufacturer tells the world what I pay for the car and defies me to make a profit.

    As for getting cars thousands below invoice, we all read the posts, there are always the reasons you don't read about. The customer had undisclosed points to use for the purchase, the dealership owned the car for less than usual, etc, etc, etc.

    Do your research and when you're actually ready to buy a car, go in and make the offer. I think there's more masturbation, cleaned it up a bit for you, about buying a car going on out here than at a boy scout camp with a truckload of Playboy magazines.

    Fact is, on a very low gross deal or an invoice deal, the client advisor makes an average of 125.00 before taxes. After that, the customer gets a survey and is always the case and my colleagues will back me up on this, a customer who grinds every nickel out of the deal is more likely to burn you on the survey than a customer who didn't grind out every last penny. The survey result directly affects the paycheck.

    In closing, I just want to say that buying a car is as hard or easy as you want to make it. Spending months wasting your time on the internet and driving from dealership to dealership to save 100-200 dollars is a waste of your time. Buy the car at a local dealership that has a great customer service experience and start enjoying it sooner. There will always be people who paid more and paid less.
  • doanmquangdoanmquang Posts: 34
    Spending months wasting your time on the internet and driving from dealership to dealership to save 100-200 dollars is a waste of your time.

    That is call saving my friend. If you have extra $500 to $1,000 to give away.....I am welcome to take it without a doubt.

    You alway research before buying....I don't know which planet are you from. Car and House are needed to research....unless you are so wealthy like Uncle Sam or Gov to spend more money on pet projects from our taxpayers.....

    Car or House is not a small penny money like Iphone, DVD, Flat T.V. and clothes that you just go out there and rack up on your credit. It is a lot of money to spend on it and the interest associated with it....

    The Internet and Forum has helped to educated buyer...(Intelligence buyers not smart buyers) to shared and discuss the strategy to get better bargain.

    I have purchased more that at least 7 cars for my own and several cars for family members and friends. All dealers from Honda, Toyata, MB, BMW are treating buyers an idiot....They think us as a cash cow machine....add more fees, optioned, extra warranty.... I am sure not all salesman are like that.....but most of them are!!!!!

    My point is....if the dealers are treating us with respect and negotiate in a fairly manners without using tactics and tricks to run our stress or patience out then we will not have forum or discussions to bitchyy about....right...

    Look at the Grocery store.....People buy and use coupon the items they agree straight and simple....but dealers are making more difficult.....Inventory fee, Doc fee (not regulated in Georgia...$399 to $699), extra warranty......to make extra profits in addition what they already make.....Switch and bait tactics....LOL
  • 20carguy20carguy Posts: 8
    You missed my point. I'm not talking about saving the big amount, I'm talking about spending countless hours of time trying to save another $100 on an already great deal.
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    edited July 2010
    For me, reality falls somehwere in the middle.

    I do lots of research before buying a car.....Internet forums, test drives, web-sites, owner friends, etc.

    Personally, I like to buy locally when I can, and I'm willing to spend a couple of hundred to buy from a local dealer with a good service reputation.

    I don't even waste my time going into a dealer making wild claims (ie., we always pay $5k above XXX for your trade-in). These dealerships are sucker plays.

    By the same token, I'm not inclined to support a local dealer by paying $1000's more for the "honor" of supporting a local business, or a dealer that adds $1000's to the list price for "dealer installed options", such as a $5 can of Scotch-guard that he wants $995.00 for spraying on the seats). Think about it...Its a new car, and no initial treatments should be necessary. Who "treats" a new Lazyboy chair or couch? Probably not many....But, you can spray the same can for $5 just as easy as the minimum-wage-paid guy in the detailing area, if that is your desire.

    As for salespeople, its been my experience that in the lower and mid-range priced auto dealerships, almost 100% of the sales reps are idiots, who know next to nothing about the models they are selling, or the available options. I don't think I have never been to one of the dealerships where I didn't already know more than my sales rep did about the model I was interested in buying (I'm in my mid-50's, so I have been buying cars for a while). And, again, my experience is that these sales folks are "previews" of the service reps you would be dealing with later.

    Now, on the other hand, I have found that sales reps at the more high-line model dealerships are usually well-versed in their craft, and know quite a bit about the product they are selling. Most of the time, you pay for what you get, and cars are no different.

    Of course, there are always exceptions, as no rule is "hard and fast".

    In the end, one shouldn't feel that buying a car is some type of punishment. If that's the case, you need to be at a different dealership, because it ain't all about the money!
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,759
    Hey brother. Thanks for chiming in. Do you sell BMWs? There is a fantastic forum on the smart shopper board called "Stories from the Sales Frontlines" that you could post a few stories.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD, 2015 Subaru Legacy 2.5i Premium

  • kanchiskanchis Posts: 33
    If the car salesman were honest from the beginning then there wont be any hustling involved, but its not the case these days. Personally I would bargain for every single penny cos I know its my hard earned money. I hate the fact that some sales people say (specially luxury car salesman) that you are not buying a toyota so dont bargain! This is just BS. I'm sure the same salesman would be using coupons to buy groceries and would hunt down the best deal when it comes to his turn to buy a car. As one of the other members said it, Edmonds.com forums has helped me and thousands of others to be prepared to listen to all you car salesman BS talk and get to the bottom of it. So please stop playing mind games and be honest from the beggining, maybe u'll sell more cars then. If you want to [non-permissible content removed] about a forum like this create your own thread so all you dealers can go there and start bitching. nuff said. :shades:
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,759
    You cannot make the generalization that all car sales professionals are dishonest. They work to make money just like you and I do. Part of their job is to sell additional services/accessories that the buyer may or may not deem necessary. All you have to do is say yes or no. Tire & Wheel insurance? Extended Warranty? If the manufacturer's extended warranty is too expensive, how about a 3rd party warranty? Undercoating?

    The information is out there & for the benefit of the buyer.

    Do your research. Get an idea of what the car you want is selling for.

    Value your trade - get an idea of what your car is selling for on eBay & autotrader. Get trade in offers from 2 different dealers + maybe a carmax.

    Be realistic. Don't expect to get dealer retail for your trade & at or below invoice pricing on the new car.

    Don't worry about Doc fees. Take all the information you've gathered & make an Out The Door offer including sales tax & DMV fees. The dealer can either accept or decline your offer. Stick to your guns & don't let yourself get bumped up by meeting in the middle.

    Most of all, treat this as a business decision. Take the emotion out of it. If you don't feel comfortable with the salesperson or the dealership or the price, just get up & walk away.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD, 2015 Subaru Legacy 2.5i Premium

  • 20carguy20carguy Posts: 8
    Amen car guy. This week I had two customers who totalled cars. One bought gap for 695 the other didn't. Guess which one is picking up their new car on Saturday?

    As for offering additional services like tire and wheel protection which some people complain about, think about this.... When going out to dinner after a great meal the waiter comes and asks you, how about desert or coffee? How many people say hey, I just had dinner, don't try and sell me something I don't need... Lol

    doesn't happen does it?
  • doanmquangdoanmquang Posts: 34
    Be realistic. Don't expect to get dealer retail for your trade & at or below invoice pricing on the new car.

    Of course, we don't expect that but what really is your invoice price anyway. I am sure it is not the one posted on Edmunds or truecar dot com right. How about 2/60 or 3/90 net invoice. If you sell your a cars on the lot faster than you can have 2 or 3% discount of your realll..invoice. Dealers some cost but you pass my of the cost to the buyers....Dest fee. and doc fee....

    I have seen where salesman prevent his/her customers talk to me.....afraid they will walk out the dealers....LOL....

    If selling car business is straight forward as it can be....then pretty much we don't have a lot of people shared their fantasy experience with others....don't you agree.

    Very fortunate for me, I was not born in this country where I grew up.....we bargain at everything....from grocery to coffee shop and girls.....LOL....
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,759
    What state are you located in? Here in NY, gap insurance is mandatory & included in every vehicle lease/loan. I just bought a house in CT & I think gap insurance is extra there.

    When I bought my wife's 2010 TSX last August, I was offered the extended warranty numerous times to the point that it really annoyed me.

    When we leased her '07 X3 that is due back @ the end of the month, they offered the tire & wheel insurance for I think $850. I declined. About 2 months ago, my wife swerved to avoid some debris in the road & smacked into a center curb. She cracked a rim & shredded 2 tires. I had the truck towed to the dealer where they told me that not only were the 2 tires bad, but the other 2 were shot & needed to be replaced. So I had to pay the money either way.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD, 2015 Subaru Legacy 2.5i Premium

  • jimbresjimbres Posts: 2,025
    Here in NY, gap insurance is mandatory & included in every vehicle lease/loan.

    I live in NY, & I believe that the state requires gap insurance only for leases - not for loans. (We've paid cash for our last 3 or 4 cars, so I'm not 100% sure of this. But a quick Google search seems to confirm my belief.)
  • 20carguy20carguy Posts: 8
    I'm in Ct. In NY, as in Ct, gap is automatically in leases. The leasing company or the manufacturer always protects themselves with gap in the case of a total loss. In a purchase in Ny, they have to sell gap for cost. In many other states the dealer can make a profit on it but there is usually a ceiling on what the dealership can charge.
  • Firebird_EOUFirebird_EOU Posts: 250
    I don't know if they do it across all states but it was in NJ. I do think it's mentioned on BMW's website.
  • Firebird_EOUFirebird_EOU Posts: 250
    Would that have covered the damage when the car hit the curb? I know that they don't cover curb rash.

    Your wife would have to take picture of the center debris and it might still not be covered since you didn't run over the road hazard. What about if your wife swerved a deer laying on the road and hit the center curb, would that be covered?
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,759
    Not sure, but like I said, either way I spent the money. Not like the tire insurance was $300 & I didn't go for it. I ended up buying 4 new tires & 1 wheel from the dealership with less than 3000 miles to go on my lease.

    I'm financing my Acura through Chase & the loan includes gap insurance. My Dad is financing his Tahoe through gmac & they include gap insurance in ny.

    Car20guy - where in CT are you?

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD, 2015 Subaru Legacy 2.5i Premium

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