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2013 and earlier - BMW 5 Series Prices Paid and Buying Experience

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Comments

  • vsaxenavsaxena Posts: 201
    Would a national agreement to fix prices not violate the spirit of Anti-Trust laws. Unlike Saturn where the price is fixed by the factory, in case of BMW, it is the dealer who determines the final price. If the dealers have an agreement that they will not budge on the MSRP, they are in effect fixing the price.

    Yesterday I saw the E60 on the road for the first time in my commute from the mid-peninsula to the South Bay (SF Bay Area) . The only good look I got was from the rear-view mirror. The car looks bean shaped from the front and the overall appearance is very rounded. Reminds me more of a roadster or the Beetle than a mid-size sedan. It looks much smaller than it actually is.
  • saugataksaugatak Posts: 488
    your dealer sold you a BS story. vsaxena is right. collusion among bmw dealers to keep prices fixed for 12 months would definitely constitute a violation of anti-trust.

    also, how could the bmw dealers enforce such an agreement? if all the other bmw dealers are holding at msrp, and dealer A decides to sell for $100 under, dealer A will get all the business, and then the other dealers are forced to follow suit and then dealer A lower prices again and the wheel keeps turning. economic theory refers to this as the "free rider" problem.

    unless there was a BMW price czar out there who cut dealers off for selling below MSRP, any national agreement would fall apart under market pressures.
  • As a practical matter, it looks like a dealer (or much more likely, a salesrep) lied to you. If you have a witness (or better yet, if it's in writing), you might be able to apply some leverage in exchange for not informing BMW USA and your state attorney's general or consumer fraud protection unit about this clearly deceptive praactice. At the least, the rep might lose his job. Of course, if it's your word against the reps, you're out of luck. Good luck.
  • And an agreement to fix prices, yeah that could be a problem. If there is any evidence of an agreement (good luck trying to find it) it's probably a pretty good case, although I don't know what the damages are, though.

    Put in a phone call to your state AG or DOJ antitrust division.
  • >>You say, "What I heard from the dealers is that there is a national agreement among BMW dealers that no less than MSRP for 12 months. That's why I was happy to order my 545i at $500 off the MSRP".

    Ok, this salesman is a dope who is pulling your chain. There's an agreement (illegal worth millions in damages) but he is opting out and giving $500 off?
  • choidschoids Posts: 16
    I live in Los Angeles area where there are at least half dozen BMW dealers within 40 minutes driving distance. I've checked with 5 dealers and all insisted on MSRP. Some dealer has waiting list of upto 6 months. That's why I was happy to order one from this dealer at $500 of the MSRP where I will be getting the car at the end of January. Now, they didn't show me any proof on price fixing but at least all dealers seemed to be consistant on the price.
  • ndmdndmd Posts: 27
    I just spoke with a dealer in SW Florida about a future order on a 530i. He claimed no real room to negotiate on the price, but he stated that there is a special money factor for leases right now. Of course, his next question was what monthly payment I was looking for. I love when they do that. Anyway, I will not order for another few months, but found this interesting. I wonder if the money factor is because the car is not selling, or because its the end of the year.
  • choidschoids Posts: 16
    Believe me, I tried just about every tactic to reduce the price of the car. Because of their hard nose attitude, yet very polite, I even tried to buy Lexus LS430 instead. The Lexus dealer was willing to knock off $6000 off the MSRP, and I tried this deal to persuade the BMW dealers to negotiate. No Luck! They just simply smiled and said good luck with your Lexus and didn't call me what so ever. After I checked around 4 other dealers, I finally gave up and took their $500 off MSRP price. Let's see if anybody can do better...
  • Some of the discussion regarding your $500 off MSRP makes me this of a story. A guy was offered an elephant for $1000. He said no way he didn't need an elephant and didn't want an elephant and would never use an elephant. The elephant guy then said ok I'll give you 2 for $1500. Immediate response, I'll take them.

    Some (many?) people will not buy anything unless they think they are getting a great deal. Personally I more buy what I like and can afford, and put some effort into not overpaying but the "deal" is not the most important thing. In the past we got 2 Saturns for my wife, great cars for the money. Many people I know would rather pay $17k for a $20k sticker car than pay $16k for an equivalent Saturn.

    Neither way it right or wrong we're just all different.
  • saugataksaugatak Posts: 488
    I'm not sure I understand the point of the elephant story vis a vis Choids.

    Choids is purchasing a great car, and if he got a deal so that he purchased 2 great cars, he could then turn around and sell the other one at a profit.

    I think Houstonmerc is trying to say don't get so caught up in a deal that you buy a junker instead of the car you really want.

    But I don't think that's the problem here. Choids clearly wanted the BMW 545 since he turned down $6k off MSRP on a Lexus LS430. Choids was either going to get his car at $500 off MSRP or for significantly less.

    Either way, Choids was going to get his dream machine so it comes down to how much he paid for it.

    Regardless how much Choids paid, he's getting a great car and is going to have a lot of fun driving it and will probably attract lots of attention from some fine suntanned CA ladies so I'm jealous.
  • Your situation on 545's can be very appropriate to the demand for the model.

    I don't want to step up to the extra $15-20K for one, so have not negotiated for it. For the 525 I'm looking at, I'm at $2.2K off MSRP and one month of my lease paid off (two months left), no disposition fee (typical) and my security deposit refunded (typical on recurring lease). Also inspection and approval of my current lease before I sign up for the new one.

    Different cars, different demand profile. So, you may in fact have gotten the best deal available for that car.

    For those looking for 525's, you may have a much better negotiating position and you definitely shouldn't pay MSRP. 530's might also be negotiable, but $5K for 50 extra HP isn't worth it to me.

    Cheers--
  • vsaxenavsaxena Posts: 201
    Yesterday I heard an offer for $399 leases on the 2004 525 on the radio in the South Bay (SFO). I am surprised that the dealers have to advertise these leases on a brand new car. I guess the 525 does not move as well as the 530.
  • A friend (actually a client) recently bought a 2000 528i from one of the local dealers. The car is pretty loaded. Sports package, sun shades all around, 2004 wheels, brand new tires, 6 disc CD changer, moon roof, etc. 38,000 miles and certified pre-owned. He paid right at $30,000.

    About a month later, he got canned from his job so he had to sell it. He came to me and gave me the rundown and said I could have it for the same. I really like the car and have driven it for a couple of hundred miles on a golf trip we made together. For $30,000 I was not interested. Eventually I got wind that the price had been dropped to $26,500. Now I was interested. However, it was too late for him since he already agreed to sell it back to the same dealer for that price. As it turns out, he was better off selling it to them than to me because his payoff was lower. Something about extended warranties being refunded.

    So I tell him to have the dealer call me. They call the same day he drops the car off, Friday, and I make an appt to go see them on Monday. Of course, the price to me is now $29,900. About what I thought it would be. I start to walk and I get the "what does it take to earn your business today?" line. Kind of pissed me off coming from a BMW sales guy, but I tell him $26,500. He says OK I'll take it back to the manager. Of course they say no. I meet a couple more people and then I talk with a woman who explains the rational for the increase. The paper work, the recertification, and so on.

    I know they have costs associated with this deal so I tell her I understand. My question is, what would be a fair offer from me? I know they had not had time to recertify the car. No cost there. Although they probably have to recertify when the ownership changes. If I offer $2000 over what they paid ($26,500 for a total of $28500) would that cover their costs? It appears as though at that price it would still be a good buy price also.

    Thanks in advance for any input.
  • clpurnellclpurnell Posts: 1,087
    They already made 4k+ on your poor friend and then you are offering them another 2k profit. The dealer must love you because this would be over 6k they made from one car. I would offer them 27k take it or leave it. 500 is reasonable if you really want to give away 2k my email address is in my profile :)
  • Too bad. That would have been worth more than the Starship Enterprise. PS Cars direct has the car w premiom, step, sport for $1k off MSRP using a NY zip code, but "submit request for pricing" in 90210.

    So you may only have a state-wide class action.
  • sysadbsysadb Posts: 83
    Bear in mind that the dealer bought the car back with the intention of retailing it. As a used car they will have a minimum they will accept for it (retail). The original profit made on the car at $30k is no longer relevant to the dealer. From their perspective the car can probably be retailed at close to $30k. After all, someone just paid that much for it about a month ago...So, there is no reason to sell it for thousands less unless they feel for whatever reason it will no longer command the higher price.

    This car was sold at a profit when new, and also when the friend bought it for $30k. It may have even been sold for a profit in between those two transactions for all we know. But everytime it's sold it most likely will be for a satisfactory profit if a dealer is selling it (and dealers do not buy used cars planning to retail them for a $500 profit) The problem here is that the one owner did not give his buddy another chance to buy the car after the dealer offered $26.5k.

    DB
  • I plan on ordering my 530 via European Delivery. Does anyone know how that works as far as price negotiation prior to the euro delivery discount? Also, any experiences to share on euro delivery?
  • I agree with sysabd. Well stated. The dealer had to buy and sell the car twice, and it doesn't seem to matter much to me that it's the same car. Recycling a car in that way is of course unusual. When the dealer bought it a second time, they had pretty much the same costs and risk (ie no one wanting to buy it) that they had the first time, other than maybe "knowing" the car.
  • I was able to negotiate $1,800 above ED invoice pricing on a 2004 525i for pick up in Munich, which is about 10% off US MSRP pricing. I could have save a few hundred $$ dollars more by going outside my local market, but I didn't think the trade-off was worth it. Also, keep in mind that the BMW dealers have about the same spread between ED MSRP and ED Invoice as they do between US MSRP and Invoice.
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