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2013 and earlier - BMW 5 Series Prices Paid and Buying Experience

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  • bpb41bpb41 Posts: 7
    Any help for me on this deal, guys? The car is on order, and I haven't gotten any feedback on whether I got a good deal or not. Any advice, esp. from a host, would be a help. I'm a first-time BMW buyer/lessee, and it's a big jump in cost . . .

                 Thanks,
                   BPB
  • I could be wrong but I think your lease is calculated from MSRP it does not add up. What is the interest rate (money factor) did they quote you?
  • bpb41bpb41 Posts: 7
    the money factor, I was told, is .0022
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,876
    bpb41 -
    Hosts don't necessarily have more insight into your best deal than other members do. We've got the same tools available, including the TMV tool. You're generally more likely to get great advice from others who've been shopping for the same vehicle.

    kirstie_h
    Roving Host & Future Vehicles Host

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  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 28,679
    Did you negotiate this in October or November? Because that money factor is way off...

    regards,
    kyfdx

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • bpb41bpb41 Posts: 7
    It was on November 2 -- I told them the MSRP was $51,720, invoice was $47,375, and that 36 months/15k a year, 60% residual on a $49,000 sales price, with only inceptions ($2240) down should make the payment some where in the ballpark of $755, tax included (using edmunds.com's calculator). I also said I was looking at the MB E320,and wanted the best deal they could give me for January delivery. The sales guy checked with the sales manager and came back with $748 and change, tax included, with $2240 TOOP. I agreed and the car is now on order. In short, I don't know the money factor they actually used, but I looked at the toal cost over the life of the lease, and it looked good. BMW is running a lease program on the 525i, and they did seem to have some 5 Series vehicles on the lot. It came out to be cheaper than I expected, although I think I've covered all my bases.

    Thanks,
    BPB41
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 28,679
    New rates became effective November 5th... The money factor is now .0015

    Did they break down how much was payment and how much was tax? I think you can get a better deal now..

    Or, just call your CA and ask him if the rates are better for November, and that if they are, you want the lower rate.. when is your car due to come in?

    regards,
    kyfdx

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 28,679
    I know you have agreed to a price, but since you negotiated cap cost first and they agreed to it, it really won't cost them anything to give you the lower rate.. Even if they bump it up the maximum .0004 that they are allowed, it still only comes to .0019.. and that should save you $20-$30/month.

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    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • bpb41bpb41 Posts: 7
    Thanks for the advice, kyfdx. The car is scheduled for early January delivery. I'll call the "client advisor" and ask him if the new rates will be better--he did say " I can't guarantee rates for January now", but that should work both ways. I'll see if I can knock a few bucks a month off the payment.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 28,679
    I would assume that the lease deal can only improve by January... If he is locking in your sale price/cap cost at $49K, then I'm betting your deal just gets better by then...

    Good luck!!

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • bpb41bpb41 Posts: 7
    thanks again--I'll check to see if he really did lock in the cap cost at $49k, or if he just came back with a lower number in anticipation of lower rates. I'll post here when I find out.
  • I've never believed that "year end savings" were that good a deal because even if you buy the vehicle at invoice you are essentially bailing the dealer out at his cost of what will soon be a year old vehicle with the lower value that comes with the first year's depreciation.

    Having said that, I came across an '04 525 left over with stick shift, premium, sport package, zenons and maybe something else that I like. What is it worth as of mid-November? The '05s are already on the ground and since this doesn't qualify for the Section 179 6000 pound GVW write off I have time to order an '05 and defer the expenditure (always a good move) for a month or two. If I were to do so I wouldn't change the options though. We would probably keep the car for 10 years (the zenons will come in handy on my way to a 50 year Vietnam Veterans reunion in 2015).

    One bargaining chip I was going to use is that it is now winter in New England and the 17" (remember this is a 525 sport) wheels and tires aren't going to work. Perhaps they could throw in a set of take-off wheels for me to mount some Blizzaks? The problem is that BMW values their alloys about three times the market price, so even if I got them to throw in a set of winter wheels they might "value" it as a $2000 concession.

    Any ideas as to where I should end up price wise in relation to invoice?? Is the stick a plus or a negative? (I love the stick; nothing I've ever drove for the last 45 years shifts as easily.)
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 28,679
    1) On a new car, the dealer won't look at the auction reports to see what a "nearly new" car is worth.. He'll just look at what he has in it, and whether he still needs to make a profit, or if he's willing to sell for cost, or possibly take a small loss.

    So, to the dealer, it is worth at least invoice.. You would have to decide if it is worth that much to you. If you think you might "bail out of it" in a short period, then it probably isn't worth it.

    2) Since it has the Sport Pkg, and the smaller engine, I would rather have the stick.. Almost any dealer you would trade it to will think otherwise.. I doubt you would have too much trouble selling it yourself with those options though.. small engine, stick, sport package all kind of go together.. If you like the stick, then that is what really matters.

    3) BMW factory wheels are obscenely expensive.. $350/each at the cheapest. If you can get the dealer to throw in a set (even a used set), then that would indeed be a great deal.
    Tirerack has some decent aftermarket wheels for around $100-$150... or you could scour forum classifieds for some used factory wheels.. A lot of people upgrade shortly after buying their cars new (think California), and prices are usually about half of new.

    4) Any possible finance incentives on the '04, like lower interest rates? If so, that might be an extra savings..

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  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 28,679
    Well.. my friend flew to New Jersey yesterday morning, and picked up that '03 530i that he bought on Ebay... drove it straight home..ten hours..

    6K miles, 5-speed, premium, xenons, stereo upgrade, PDC, etc.. Silver w/black leather..

    $30,450 total.. plus taxes when he registers it.

    Neither he or I are experts, but the car sure looks new, and he said no problems coming home.. It was a BMWNA car... employee lease.. In-serive date of September, '03

    Unless something "comes up" later, I think he got a really good deal.. and I'm jealous. I want a stickshift....

    regards,
    kyfdx

    MODERATOR
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  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    That does sound like a great deal on a 2003 530i.

    However, I did resurrect an offer I received on a brand new 2003 530i 5 speed, sport, premium, xenons, etc. in August 2003 for $38,900. There was a $4,000 factory to dealer cash incentive and the dealership was selling it at invoice minus $4,000 +/-. I didn't go for it primarily because I didn't want to sell my Honda S2000 "fun car" at the time.

    The only thing that sounds a little suspiscious with your friend's deal is only 6,000 miles in 14 months (430 miles per month). I put over 600 miles per month over a span of 30 months on our S2000 as a third car. I would hope that BMWNA would be honest about the car's history, and that it wasn't out of commission for an extended period due to an accident or major mechanical issue.
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Posts: 9,359
    ..... If it has a clean history, no-repaints, it's all checked-out on a lift with a good eye and it's 100% - then he made a *Great Deal* ..

             What keeps the E39's rockin' is the "lack" of interest in the E60's ... at the time, they were probably the "best buy" of the year with all of the incentives on the last remaining models of the 03's ..... the funny part is, the 04's are only doing around $5,000 more than the 03's comparably equipped, thats got to tell you something ......... ;)

                You bud could probably sell it and still make $5,0/$6,000 even with the handshaker .....

                                 Terry.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 28,679
    I was suspicious also.. As Terry pointed out last week, he bought it for about what they are going for at auction..

    As far as the mileage.. Of course, any number of things could happen to cause that.. BMWNA employee leases are generally for 1 year or 10K miles, whichever comes first.. They are dirt cheap (the employee leases, that is).. so, if he had a short commute..etc, etc..

    As far as BMWNA? They announce previous damage at the auction.. but, they keep it off the vehicle history report for six months.. Gee, I wonder why that is? I found that out the hard way..

    And yes.. They had killer deals on the 530i last fall.. But, again as Terry says.. that doesn't translate into lower prices now.. This example is a really rare occurrence... usually, one follows the other.. It kind of makes me wish I had bought one last year... but I was stretching the budget for the 325i.

    But, he won't be selling right away for a profit.. He has an '03 Lexus ES300 to sell.. He is happy as a clam with his new 5-speed BMW.

    So, Terry.. '03 Lexus ES300 with 23K miles.. Gold with tan guts.. Everything original.. no runs, no hits, no errors.. What is it worth in a private party sale? Cincinnati market.

    regards,
    kyfdx

    MODERATOR
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  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Steals happen but that is beyond steal. Would like to know the details of the purchase. What did your friend do to verify prior to purchase? Was a PPI done etc.? If not your friend has brass. That car in excellent condition should go between $37K and $41K.

    I wouldn’t worry about mileage. Plenty of people don’t drive much. A guy at work has a 330 and his daily commute is 6 miles. That comes to ~1500 per year plus his weekend usage puts his total at around 5K per year. Lots of Porsche owners do between 4K and 6K per year... Ferrari watch-your-money-go-up-in-smoke syndrome. Less common with bimmers. I think BMW owners have more wanderlust.

    “…the dealership was selling it [2003 530i] at invoice minus $4,000 +/-.”

    Habitat1… that would have taken the blue ribbon around here. I recall the best deal reported in this thread last year was around $3500 under invoice plus 4$K incentive. We always remember the ones that got away. I will never forget the opportunity I had for an 01 M5 last year… 2500 miles, $57K. Could have driven it for a year and turned it around for the same price. I even had the guys deposit check made out. Instead, the two-seat drop-top beckoned.

    Will be interesting to see how the E46s price out in the coming year, if they will approximate E39 deals last year. Also it will be interesting to see prices of outgoing BMW models as affected by the new engines.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 28,679
    Well.. I don't know if he has brass.. or is just basically trusting.. He won the auction on ebay, and had never contacted the seller beforehand.. which I thought was nuts..

    No PPI.. called the guy a week ago, asked a few questions, flew up on Friday, did the paperwork and drove it home..

    The only negatives on the car that might drop the price a little.... stickshift without sport package... and, no heated seats.. Cosmetically, what you would expect from a car with only 6K miles.. just about perfect.. couple of very small parking lot dings on rear bumper, the kind you wouldn't see unless they were pointed out to you..

    I'd say that as cheap as he got it.. even if he finds issues later, he is in pretty good shape... he already has 700 miles driving it, and is very happy with it. (and I know he's being straight about the price, I saw the completed auction on ebay).

    regards,
    kyfdx
    (sometimes dreams do come true)

    MODERATOR
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  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    "Habitat1… that would have taken the blue ribbon around here. I recall the best deal reported in this thread last year was around $3500 under invoice plus 4$K incentive."

    Did I misspeak? The deal I was offered was approximately $4,000 under invoice, including the $4k incentive. If you could have got a 530i for $3,500 under invoice, plus a $4k incentive (i.e. $7,500 under invoice), you really blew a good deal.

    As far as your used car values go, I think they are being very generous, at best. In the DC area, 2003 530i's go for way less than $37-41k. More like $32-35k, if you look around. And a 2001 M5 for $57k is a good deal (even a year ago as a three year old car)? The fact that the M5 is perhaps the ultimate sedan on the road doesn't mean it's easy to find someone to get infatuated with the idea of paying $57k for a three year old used car. Perhaps I'm a new car snob, but $73k for a brand new one sounds like a far better deal than $57k for a three year old one, suspisciously low mileage notwithstanding.
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Posts: 9,359
    ...... Perhaps in your situation the extra $17 grand wouldn't do much .. but most folks are payment buyers, even for those that drive ultimate "M", so that extra $300 a month would make *all* the difference ................ :)

                                   Terry.
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Posts: 9,359
    **'03 Lexus ES300 with 23K miles.. Gold with tan guts.. Everything original.. no runs, no hits, no errors.. What is it worth in a private party sale? Cincinnati market** ....

                  Sounds like the mid/tall $23's, maybe the low low $24's if everything goes his way on the trade side, not much help from the color or the miles ... might see $26ish after all the smoke clears down Retail Rd .. it's funny, but like the "old 5" Bimmer body, the ES is going thru the same thing .. clean low miler "02's" will do "almost" what the new body will do ..... whats that tell ya.?

                                  Terry.
  • an '04 525 stick, black on black, sport, premium, heat (seats) and lights (zenons) with 17K at a dealer as a CPO in soon to be snowy Boston? How much more would you pay for the same car if new? Note, no great factory financing on either one but the CPO has a better warranty than the new unit.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    “Did I misspeak? The deal I was offered was approximately $4,000 under invoice, including the $4k incentive. If you could have got a 530i for $3,500 under invoice, plus a $4k incentive (i.e. $7,500 under invoice), you really blew a good deal.”

    I stand corrected on the including/plus slip. By my original point was that $38.9K at $4000 under invoice was at the extreme end of good deals last year in this thread.

    “The fact that the M5 is perhaps the ultimate sedan on the road doesn't mean it's easy to find someone to get infatuated with the idea of paying $57k for a three year old used car. Perhaps I'm a new car snob, but $73k for a brand new one sounds like a far better deal than $57k for a three year old one, suspisciously low mileage notwithstanding.”

    It was two years old when I saw it. And it was bought the same week I turned it down. I saw others go just as quickly for a lot more. For someone who heaps praise on the M5 I find it curious how you would classify someone as “infatuated” for buying one with 2500 miles for 17 grand less. I wouldn’t call you a “new car snob”, I’d say you are “infatuated” with new cars. I’m not. And I would take new-545 money and put it on a cream puff E39 M5 any day. Furthermore, that particular car would have turned around with less depreciation in a year’s time. BTW, the low mileage is suspicious to YOU because you know nothing about the car.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    $17k may sound like a lot of savings, but that's only 23% less than the price of a brand new vehicle. And, given that the 2001 M5's were out in October, 2000, I would respectfully suggest that most buyers would consider it a three year old "model" by mid to late 2003. There were some tweaks and minor improvements for 2002 and 2003 as well (e.g. nav system).

    "BTW, the low mileage is suspicious to YOU because you know nothing about the car."

    I may not know anything about THAT car, but I have been coached by a few well qualified friends and associates that a car that "sits" for extended periods of time is MORE likely to have some mechanical issues than one that is driven regularly. I won't go beyond MY limited technical expertise, but as it was described to me, belts and chains get rigamortis, fluids evaporate and/or solidify, even tires get fatigued from being in one position. And the idea of starting up a car and driving it a few miles once or twice a month is hell on an engine that doesn't really get a chance to warm up. Heck, my Honda S2000 wasn't even fully broken in until it had 5,000+ miles on the odometer. I didn't test it's 9,000 rpm redline until well after 1,500 miles. Call me paranoid, but I'd be willing to bet a dollar to a doughnut (or better yet, $73k to $57k), that my new M5 would get a much better break in routine than that 2,500 mile 2-3 year old used one did. The beauty of the M5 is that it is meant to be driven, not looked at like a fragile piece of art. I'd be much more inclined to buy a 3 year old M5 from someone who appreciated that and driven it (responsibly) for 15,000+ miles than someone who needed a trophy for their garage.
  • lee_wlee_w Posts: 239
    Anyone have new prices paid or buying experiences to share?
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 28,679
    Thanks Terry.. I believe he is asking $27,500, so hopefully he can get $26K out of it.. He is definitely selling it retail.. Thanks for the info...

    regards,
    kyfdx

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • list is $ 58,455.00 with a sell price of $ 55,490.00 plus tax and tags. payment for a 36 month/10,000 mile lease comes to $ 717.54 per month including PA tax

    1st month: $ 717.54
    Security: $ 750.00 (unless you have a current lease with BMW)
    Bank Fee: $ 525.00
    DMV Fee: $ 261.00
    Total: $ 2253.54

    What do you think?
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    I think that is an absurd purchase price for a 530i. The modestly powered 6 cylinder 530i is a decent car, but over $55k is just nuts, IMO.

    If it were me, I'd cash in some frequent flyer miles and get a 545i through European Delivery for $1,200 to $1,500 over invoice. The loaded 545i 6-speed I priced out came in at below your price for a 530i. Not sure about leasing through ED.
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Posts: 9,359
    ...... If it was new.? .. probably $600/$800 over invoice, minus any incentives ....

               The pre-owned.? .. the dealer probably paid in and around the $34ish figure, by the time they do the CPO and a few things it probably hits the table at the $35ish figure and he probably would cut it loose for the $37ish zipcode or less .. it's a handshaker, he won't want that dude in the inventory for any length of time with winter coming ........... ;)

                                  Terry.
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