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Scion xB - Hip to be square

revkarevka Posts: 1,750
"The xB starts at under $16,000, and will be available in California only starting this June; by June 2004, the vehicle will be available nationwide."


Read more from Edmunds' coverage of the 2003 LA Auto Show: 2004 Scion xB.


image

What do you think? ;-)

Revka

Hatchbacks & Wagons Host

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Comments

  • I think it looks interesting, but I also think that Toyota needs to watch the price level carefully. Remember, this thing is really a rebodied Echo...it's not very big or very powerful. If it sells for $15-16K, people are going to have a hard time finding a reason to buy one in place of a Matrix or an Aerio. Base it at $13K, and they might have something.

    -Andrew L
  • jfr4jfr4 Posts: 2
    The closest thing on the market is the Honda Element which starts out at $16,300 and boasts a 2.4 L 160 horsepower engine. Given this more powerful, though esthetically impaired, competitor, the bbX will have to be priced aggressively as the Element has beaten the bbX to market by some 7+ months and probably 40+ horsepower.
  • The element is alot bigger. This is some where between a Corolla and an Echo. I will give it that the cabin space is as big as a corolla. There is no way I will buy it for 16k. A 14k package should include the audio system. I will throw another grant in it for a DVD player/Navi system. They can keep the cruise control and other stuff.
  • ropedartropedart Posts: 163
    Yota should have been selling the FJ concept in the USA by now. It is more America suited being more outdoorsy vehicle. Japan you cruise the streets in a xB because there's nothing else to do. In America you can actually get out of town.
  • joybelljoybell Posts: 275
    Well, to me it does. Also looks like it will do great in the 5mph bumber bash test.
  • jfr4jfr4 Posts: 2
    I would love to see the drag coefficient on cars like these. It seems they only publish such data on models with stellar numbers. Given its likely wind resistance, a 108 hp powertrain doesn't sound adequate.
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    I'd buy this Scion. Just depends what equipment level we're looking at here. DVD TVs? Navigation system? What am I looking at with my 16K?
  • r34r34 Posts: 178
    I looked at the Toyota Scion. I like it very much. It is very comfortable and very easy to go in and out the vehicle. I went to Japan last year andI think that's the vehicle I saw in the Toyota showroom there. However, I think they need to increase its horsepower. If they target Gen-Y, they may need to work on the appearance of the vehicle.
  • I applaud Toyota's effort's for trying to appeal to the younger generation, but I think that Scion isn't the answer. Last summer, I went to Japan and saw hundreds of these xBs (or bBs in Japan) roaming the streets with teens my age behind the wheel. I believe it was popular there because:
    1. Japanese teens like that style (for some odd reason)
    2. Japanese teens like to have cars that blast music, like we do in the US
    3. In Japan, you normally go about 40-80 kph (20-40mph?, correct me if I am wrong). Therefore, lots of horsepower or aerodynamic designs aren't needed often.

    But this is America! If we are law-obeying citizens, we go around 65mph, and we prefer to use our own cars to go offroad or to haul things around. I wouldn't want to drive a car that will leave me thinking, "Should I switch lanes in front of that 18-wheeler and risk being tomorrow's front page on a newspaper?" "Should I haul this TV with the possibility that I might have to push this thing home?""Is it smart to go offroad and risk coming back with no bumpers and an overheated engine?"
    If Toyota really wants to sell a car like this without being laughed at by a 7-year old for a design he could make, they could at least offer a V6 as an option and knock down the prices by $2000.
  • The xB, like any other econocar, isn't meant for off road use.
  • Kind of funny looking when you really see a real one. There is a lot of room inside. One could wear a Cowboy hat in it. They are looking in the $19,000 range however and with AC and stuff well over $20,000. They will hit the USA this summer. I got a free SCION key chain!!
  • When I had first discovered that Toyota was to create a new brand to target my generation (I was born 1988) I was really glad to hear that we would finally get a truely Japanese vehicle, one that 5 years ago, we would never have even thought of seeing in the US.
    Personally, I like tall-roofed vehicles sold in Japan. When going to the Japanese Toyota website to look at the bB, I was disappointed in that the two engines offered were 1.2 and 1.5 liters. At this point I hoped that Toyota would up the engine size to at least 1.6 or 1.8 liters because 150 horsepower isnt too far off in being the econo-car standard. However, the pictures gave me hope that the bB was at least stylish. The four exterior pictures were all of the same black bB with funky wheels. Some more searching revealed a page with two "customized" versions of the bB. THIS is what Toyota NEEDS to bring to the states to appeal to their target.
    http://www.toyota.co.jp/Showroom/customize/bb/top/bbtop.html
    I don't think that people looking at the xB even know about the bB Open Deck for sale in Japan. This vehicle with doors similar to the Element's and an open cargo area could generate some intrest in the states. Is Toyota even considering offering an open deck xB in the states? Probably not. Will it try to generate interest by showing it off at auto shows? Probably not. Often concept cars are chosen to be put into production by the intrest that people show towards them at auto shows, so why not display several Japanese domestic market vehicles at auto shows and decide which to import to the U.S. by the public's reactions? I wonder if Toyota really thought through this whole Gen-Y brand idea.
    http://www.toyota.co.jp/Showroom/All_toyota_lineup/bB_od/index.ht- ml
    Gen-Yers like myself want customization. Someone who would buy a bB would be someone who would want to stand out. Custom wheels, grilles, lights, body-side graphics, and exhausts are what would appeal to a Gen-Y buyer. If Toyota is serious about selling the xB, they won't sell what I see in the photo posted at the top of this thread. Being apart from the crowd should be what Scion is all about.

    Also, can someone please tell me what happened to the to the WiLL VS being a future Scion vehicle? Who doesn't like a 180 horsepower hatchback? Gen-Yers are the ones souping up Civics, Imprezas, Eclipses, aren't they? Wouldn't the WiLL VS be the vehicle that Gen-Yers would want? Its fast AND good-looking.
    http://www.toyota.co.jp/Showroom/All_toyota_lineup/willvs/index.h- tml
  • phil-

    The point of Scion is that the cars come as a basic package and then you add the custom stuff as you please. The only problem is that if they make the base price too high, people will not be able to afford the accessories :-P

    -Andrew L
  • Well if there aren't any aftermarket parts to buy, then there won't be much of a point. Scion needs to generate interest somehow. After all, was there an aftermarket for the Impreza before the turbo WRX hit the US? Companies have to have reason to make aftermarket parts for a certain vehicle. To add to this, someone who can afford to buy a new Scion probably won't be the type that adds all of the aftermarket parts. The souped-up civics aren't the 2003 Si's. I have yet to see an SE-R Spec V or Tiburon with other-than-stock wheels either. In my opinion, the xB should have factory-added accessories, much like MINI has done. Maybe instead of the option packages that everyone hates about Toyota, each buyer could get an "allowance" to choose the accessories that they want, as part of the base price. Toyota needs to consider that these days, performance is what the US auto market is about. The Evo and WRX generate the type of interest that Scion needs to be successful. If Scion can't keep their prices down, they might as well up the performance. BRING US THE WiLL VS!
  • phil-

    Scion makes the "aftermarket" parts. There will be a catalog of port-installed accessories that you can buy. Look at www.scion.com for an explanation of this.

    -Andrew L
  • I thought that it was clear that when I said aftermarket that I meant aftermarket, meaning you buy the parts after you buy the vehicle. When using the word accessories I meant that those would be offered by the manufacturer of the vehicle. If Scion was smart, they would offer packages such as the Street Billet and Speed Tourer for the $16-17K. When I visited the Scion website last, they said that they would offer two different wheel covers for the xB. Maybe this will change, hopefully it will. What I am trying to say is that if they wanted to be successful, they would do things like offer 5+ types of alloy wheels, not wheel covers. Upon visiting the Scion site now, I see a total of three items in the exterior category. Is this where you think Scion should be going?

    Why not sell the Street Billet and Speed Tourer? The most expensive of the two, the 4-wheel drive Z edition Street Billet is 1,858,000 Japanese Yen, which is $15,628.18 Buyers in the states would surely pay this! What is Toyota thinking?!
    Customized bB prices
  • phil-

    If you read what the site says, it's clear that the accessories shown on the site are only a sample of what will be available. The reason for things like wheel covers rather than alloy wheels is to keep the base price down and make it so that you don't have to pay for equipment you don't want. I'm sure they will have plenty of alloy wheels, body kits, and such available as accessories at extra cost for those who want them, and this Toyota-built stuff will probably be of much better quality than aftermarket junk.

    I'm not saying that Scion is a guaranteed success, but give it a chance. Toyota may not quite understand what young people want and can afford, but they're not idiots. They'll figure it out eventually.

    -Andrew L
  • Just a question of opinion here Andrew: do you like the Street Billet, Speed Tourer, and bB Open Deck?
    Also, why do you think that Scion isn't bringing the 4WD bB here?
  • phil-

    The xB in general is probably not something I would buy. But I do think it's an interesting idea that should be appealing to some people with different needs. I think the Open Deck and 4WD versions would probably sell here and may eventually come here if the first round of Scions meets sales targets. As for the customized versions, I am just not a big fan of the rims-and-body-kits style. If I had to buy an xB, a base model with an in-dash MP3 player (hopefully one will be available) and wheel cover style #1 would be my choice. But then, that is supposed to be the point of Scion...I pick what I want, you pick what you want, and Toyota makes both sales.

    For what it's worth, I'm in Scion's target age group (I'm 19). The reason Scion wouldn't be first on my shopping list is that the vehicles have too much sport and not enough utility. If I had to buy a new car, I'd look at the Element and Aztek first, as I want the cargo capacity and higher ground clearance of those models.

    I currently drive a 1986 Pontiac Parisienne 8-passenger wagon. Laugh if you will, but it's really an incredibly versatile car that gets decent mileage for its size, and has bumpers strong enough to knock down an aluminum light pole without sustaining a scratch (trust me on this one :-P). There's really nothing like it on the market right now. Anything that approaches it in size and versatility is loaded with stupid features and a high price.

    It would be interesting if Toyota could take the 4-cyl Highlander, give it a more rugged/simple exterior and interior like the Element, and knock about $7000 off the base price. Now THAT's something I would be interested in.

    -Andrew L
  • ab234ab234 Posts: 1
    How does Toyota actually think they're going to sell an SUV like that to teenagers. The Scion Xb is one of the uglist vehicles I have ever saw in my life. It's up there with the Chevy Astro. If a teenager wants an SUV that is "hip", i recommend them to get a Jeep Liberty or a Nissan Xterra, not a boxy junk like the Scion.
  • Last time I checked, the xB wasn't an SUV.
  • The xB is pure Japanese. The Liberty and Xterra were made with Americans in mind. Personally, thats what I like about it. Small American SUVs are pretty large really, and they will get bigger every year.
  • Then I figured that the price would be more than I wanted to pay. Toyota's good enough to get whatever price they want out of a vehicle.

    As for truly Japanese freak show toy type cars now available in the US, the Suzuki Aerio SX fits the bill. It's not a box, but it's tiny and tall.

    I am not part of the Gen-Y target market. I wanted a small wagon with flat storage space with the seats folded down and adequate cargo room with the seats up. The Suzuki met my needs.
  • coolguyky7coolguyky7 Posts: 932
    Can Toyota pull Scion off with these prices? I'd say the can, especially given that all that equipment is standard, unlike the ECHO. There shouldn't be any option games since everything beyond standard is factory installed...right? Sign me up for an xA!
  • Garn! I'd definitely take my $16+K and buy a DODGE NEON R/T with 150 hp, dual exhaust, rear spoiler, tint, sideskirts, great suspension...

    this car is crap. and for $20K, go buy a Dodge SRT-4. 0-60 in 5.6-5.9 seconds...yes, it can actually beat a 350Z, according to some tests.

    I don't want to drive in a box like this. I'd rather buy a Cruiser...150 hp, RELIABLE, and good-looking....indeed, beautiful on the inside. And I am 16.5 years or age. Toyota's only gotten me to hate them, not to love them. I am NOT "getting the feeling."
  • a_l_hubcapsa_l_hubcaps Posts: 518
    algie_fawkes-

    Okay, so maybe the Scions aren't the cars for you, but I venture that you may be missing their point. Cross-shopping a Scion with a Neon SRT-4 is not realistic; for one thing, there is a $6000 price difference.

    Also, I don't think the Scions are meant to be rubber-burning performance cars. 108 hp sounds wimpy, but remember that these cars are smaller than the Toyota Echo. They are not going to be outrunning any 350Z's, but I'm sure the power is adequate for their size.

    Unless we have a severe fuel shortage, I don't think I'd look at a Scion either...they seem a little too small and not rugged enough for my needs. The Element and Aztek are closer to what I want, as far as oddball utility vehicles go. But I do recognize that from an objective standpoint the Scions will probably be a great deal for the money.

    -Andrew L
  • coolguyky7coolguyky7 Posts: 932
    The engine to be used in the Scions will be the same as the ECHO. I haven't heard a bad thing about that engine in reliability nor power. However, it may be less potent in the xB. It should fair fine in the xA.
  • Yes. of course I shouldn't compare the xB or the xA to the SRT-4, which costs nearly $20K...but remember, there is really only a $4000 price gap, not $6000, unless the dealers cheat you, which some will do until enought SRT-4's have been made.

    Well, I mentioned the SRT because people were saying that the Scions were designed with the intention that customers could easily modify them afterwards. A few upgrades and improvements and you can easily spend the $20K on a Scion...or you could buy an SRT-4, with over twice the hp.

    but okay, even forgetting the srt, the Neon R/T could be had for $16K. even if it lists higher, Chrysler dealers are always giving rebates---which isn't mentioned in all the online price charts.

    and yes, even if you bar regular small cars and say you want a "microbus," you could still buy the HOnda Element, which, quirky though it is, still seems more appealing and useful to me than the xB. And the xA...I'd save my money to buy a Matrix. Or the PT....

    Just my 2 cents...
  • muffin_manmuffin_man Posts: 865
    The xB lists for $13,500, the SRT4 lists for $20,000. That's a $6,500 difference, but anyway, people are not going to cross shop the xB and the SRT4. However, a lot of people will not buy a Neon because of their unreliable reputation.

    The Element may start at $16,100, but that doesn't include A/C or a radio of any kind. The PT Cruiser is a good car, but also starts at $3000. So both are around $3000 more dollars than a xB

    You have to realize that the xB is not intended to be a performance car. In Japan they are insanely popular because they are stylish, roomy, reliable, gas efficient and inexpensive. And the opportunities for customization are out of this world. You can't go a full day without seeing an xB on 18" chrome wheels, and a club style laser light show going on inside.

    It's a dress up car, not a performer. But I have to admit, I didn't learn to appreciate that type of car until I had lived in Japan a while.
  • revkarevka Posts: 1,750
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    And now, back to the subject of the 2004 Scion xb. Thanks for your participation! ;-)

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