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2013 and Earlier - Toyota 4Runner Prices Paid and Buying Experience

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  • Got 04 Limited 4X4 V6 with 3rd row seating for $33,832 plus tile/doc fee($150/$52) plus tax. I got 4.9% on loan. Waited for 2 weeks and finally got it. Per dealer ship they gave me $250 under invoice to me and who cares as long as I got a good deal.
    Also check the price on Edmunds and there price with less options then what I got is $35,000 plus so I am happy and its a great SUV.
    Talked to few other dealerships and they don't even want to talk around this price.
    Dealership tied to make money on selling me the warranty for $2000 for 5 years or 75,000 miles. and I got them down to $1500 for 7 years/100,000 miles for platinum for Toyota with road side assistance. I know they made $100 over their Toyota web site invoice but I can always go back and have them change it as it is a prepaid expense. Talked to a friend with 4x4 experience and per him I can easily use warranty for more then what I paid as there is more ware and tare on 4x4's.
  • response to royal7
    post #312 'What's this Toyota Advertising Fee?'

    This evening I sat down with the sales representative to review the price of a 2004 4Runner. I offered $200 over invoice. They would not accept less then $700.00 over. They advised that they pay a TDA (Toyota Dealers Association) advertising costs for each vehicle and this cost is added to the final price.

    Invoice for this 4Runner is $38,462.00, they are requesting $39162.00. This vehicle is not in stock, they will order and will try to have by late November.

    This additional $500.00 will not defer me from the purchase.
    My question is... Is this a real cost to the dealer or just another way to add additional profit?

    This was the only dealer of the FIVE that I have contacted that has offered to find this 4Runner so maybe supply and demand will be costing me a little more.
  • lukeglukeg Posts: 32
    I am picking up my 4Runner tomorrow. I paid for it $32,152 +TTL. It is Titanium 2004 V8 4Runner 4x4 Sport with
    - Upgraded JBL system with 10 speakers
    - Sunroof
    - Double decker cargo system
    - Rear Spoiler
    - Daylight running lights
    - floor mats

    Also I am putting tomorrow Waag FrontRunner and Rear Bumper Guard on. I have those babies waiting at home ready to go.

    I bought 4Runner through one of the dealers in middle TN and waited almost 2 months for it to come in.
  • vodgutvodgut Posts: 162
    From what I understand, the TDA (Toyota Dealer Advertising) is a legit fee. I think there's an article somewhere here on Edmunds that mentions this. It's the fee Toyota charges the dealerships to put those snazzy Toyota commercials you see on TV all the time that list your local dealerships. It's too bad that I haven't found a pricing site that lists invoice along with this fee. What I've heard is that it varies a lot by region, and that's why the pricing sites don't list it. It's too bad, it would be nice to know.

    You can ask to see the manufacturer's invoice from the dealer, especially if you're negotiating from invoice. I believe it should be in there.
  • Thanks vodgut.

    I will accept TDA as the cost of buying the truck. Prices vary alot by regions ...... Why?
    Probably costs much more to advertise in places like Northern New Jersey - New York - Connecticut than in rural areas like Bucksnort, Tennessee or Bay St. Louis, Mississippi.

    So why do some people end up buying at invoice or a couple hundred over? The dealer is probably passing on a factory to dealer incentive to make the sale or just accepting less. In my region an incentive to the dealer is currently $400.00 on the Runner, this ends 11/3.

    I would like to see TDA as part of the MSRP.
  • aroutharouth Posts: 45
    The dealership I dealt with included the TDA in the invoice price. My invoice that I calculated on Yahoo Auto's, Edmunds, and KBB was $650.00 lower than what the dealer sent me. And frankly I don't buy it. My Dad is a Ford guy and he has been buying for invoice for years. Ford advertises just as much as Toyota, and he has never had to pay an advertising fee.
  • bmc5bmc5 Posts: 16
    ...so the invoice price as listed on most auto sites (including Edmunds) does not include these extra fees (TDA, Holdback, Delivery Allowance, etc.)? So when factoring a final invoice price how would you determine what these extra fees would add up to? Is there an overall certain percentage that is factored in to the base msrp or invoice price? What fees are fair and should be included and what are not? I'm just trying to figure out what the final price should be at invoice and then add any/all of these fees. It is very confusing and any/all help is welcomed.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,805
    This blurb relates to our TMV pricing, not invoice pricing, but may shed some light:

    "Many vehicle invoices include a legitimate advertising fee levied by either the manufacturer or regional dealer groups. Ad fees can range from less than 1% of the vehicle's MSRP to more than 3%, depending on region. Metropolitan-area dealers are more likely to charge higher advertising fees than rural dealers. Whenever there is an advertising fee, we take it into account when calculating TMV." (link)

    Toyota gets a lot of grief around Town Hall for their TDA fees. They don't break out other costs of doing business and stick them in the invoice. People would really scream about a Toyota Dealer Electric Use fee!

    Concentrate on the out the door price and it won't be as big an issue.

    Steve, Host

    Moderator
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  • bmc5bmc5 Posts: 16
    ...when you say "out the door price" what would you factor into the final price? so you're saying if a 4runner with a base msrp of $30,000 with a 4% ad fee (ny area) the extra fee that would be added on would be $1,200? just trying to get a better handle on this crazy additional pricing. thanks for your help.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,805
    An out the door price to me means everything it takes to drive the car off the lot - tags, registration, tax, price, etc. About the only extra I'll have to come up when I get home is insurance.

    It's hard to compare out the door pricing on Town Hall because sales taxes vary widely, not to mention ad fees.

    But if you focus on what it costs you to do the deal, then you can let the dealer focus on how they want to allocate the proceeds of the deal, and you don't have to worry what amount goes to ad fees or commissions or the light bill.

    Steve, Host

    Moderator
    Need help navigating? stever@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • vodgutvodgut Posts: 162
    are part of MSRP. They're not part of a national invoice, however. It is annoying if you're trying to negotiate from invoice, because you don't really know what invoice is. Maybe this is Toyota's way of obfuscating that, rather than just building ad fees into the base invoice of all vehicles.

    Steve is right, in cases like this, focus on getting the best overall deal, rather than in comparison to invoice. You can also look at no haggle dealers or places like carsdirect.com to see what numbers you shouldn't have to pay more than.
  • icepicicepic Posts: 10
    Just to clarify... Don't let a dealer try to charge you extra for Dealer Holdback. Dealer Holdback is always included as part of the invoice and is already built into the Invoice price you see on Edmunds. Dealer Holdback is money that is given back to the dealership after the car is sold. Toyota also returns additional money back to the dealership in the form of "Wholesale Financial Reserve". The invoices you see from a Toyota dealership break these into separate line items, but you will also notice that the invoice prices for the other options and base vehicle appear to be lower (than on Edmunds). If you add all of the costs together it will total the invoice price you get from Edmunds.

    Toyota calculates holdback differently in different regions. In the Southeast it works like this...

    Holdback = 2% of Total Invoice (including all options, not including destination.)
    Wholesale Financial Reserve = 1% of Base MSRP (not including options or destination charges)

    So, in the case of a Limited 4X4 V8 with a Base MSRP of 36970, a Total Invoice price (with options) of 38464 (Base Invoice of 33012). Holdback would = 769.28 and Wholesale Financial Reserve = 369.70 for a total of 1138.98 that is given back to the dealership after they sell the vehicle. Price they pay after the vehicle is sold = 38464 + 575 (destination) - 1138.98 = 37900.02.

    Remember, this is money given back. These figures are included in the total invoice price. You just need to realize that the price the dealer pays for the vehicle is at MOST, Invoice Price - (Holdback + Financial Reserve). If they're a high volume dealer with good customer satisfaction ratings, they probably have even more incentives from Toyota. In my opinion, this money should pay for a lot of the costs of doing business + some profit if the vehicle doesn't sit on the lot too long. I'm not saying you should pay 1138 less than Invoice or even pay Invoice... You may pay more... But it's good to understand how it works. I hope I didn't confuse the issue.

    I would always try to negotiate away any dealer doc fees. This is a cost of doing business and is in part paid for by Holdback and other dealer incentives. TDA - Another cost of doing business, but you may be stuck with this one.

    Like it's been stated before... Concentrate on the Out the Door price.
  • I just bought a Galactic Grey '04 Sport w/ Sunroof, 6CD JBL, Double Decker cargo, airbags,rear spoiler, alarm system for $32275 out the door w/ 2.9% financing from Stevinson automotive in Denver, Colorado.They have great customer service! However, I had an awful experience at Burt Toyota. I had an Acura to trade in and the salesman made an offer, then retracted the offer, then refused to even begin negotiation and just passed.I had the edmunds trade in figures and he said edmunds was never an industry standard! He also said I didn't know what I was talking about! When I tried to tell him about the terrible customer service, he just laughed and walked away! I even noticed his managers were smiling and the whole experience was terrible! Hard to imagine toyota associates themselves with such dealers...incidentally, for anyone going to Burt, the saleman who will not offer any kind of customer service is Joey D'Amico. Beware! Anyone else have such experiences? Sorry for this post here, but I was really angry with such behaviour! Any courses of action i should take regarding this?
  • alfster1alfster1 Posts: 273
    Congrats on your 04 purchase. Don't be sorry for posting here....We can all learn from each other's experiences.

    As for my personal experience, it was pretty good overall. I would characterize it as painless friendly haggling. The various quotes that I had from other dealers and Edmunds were very helpful and made the negotion process pretty streamlined. Because I picked up the car that same day on a Saturday, it took awhile to have my 03 v8 Limited loaded ready. In the process of prepping it, the jackals who were washing my 4runner scratched the left rear bumper. I was pissed, but promised a quick repair the following business day, which came out very well. Overall, I was happy with my experience, but I might suggest that if anyone purchases a car, you might want to do without the complimentary potentially damaging car wash.
  • vodgutvodgut Posts: 162
    There are two Stevinson's in Denver, Stevinson East and Stevinson West. Which one did you go to?

    While I was shopping for my '03, one of the dealers I talked to was Stevenson East. They seemed pretty good, although I didn't end up buying there. Their best price was about what I got on carsdirect.com.
  • slitorslitor Posts: 29
    I installed everything from Wagg, check out my pictures in the accesorries forum. I put on my 03 SE Runner the side tubes, and the rear bumper guard
  • lukeglukeg Posts: 32
    I picked up the 4Runner today and added WAAG front and rear bumper guard right away. 4Runner looks unbelievable. I will post some pictures shortly.
  • sacstate1sacstate1 Posts: 189
    "Any courses of action i should take regarding this?"

    Punch him in the nose!
  • After calling the MVD numerous times, I finally got clear info on the compulsory taxes and fees you should be paying when purchasing a new vehicle in Arizona:

    1) Transaction Privilege Tax
    2) Vehicle License Tax (VLT)
    3) Registration Fee
    4) Title Fee
    5) Postage Fee
    6) Air Quality Research Fee
    7) Air Quality Compliance Sticker Fee
    8) Tire Disposal Fee

    The “privilege” tax is simply the sales tax – the same one (usually 8.1% in metro Phoenix) that you pay on all other retail purchases. This tax typically adds thousands of dollars to a new vehicle purchase.

    The VLT is an interesting beast – and no one I know had a clue as to how it’s calculated. Here’s how: take the Base MSRP of the vehicle you’re buying, obtain its assessed value by multiplying it by .6, and multiply the product by .028. Or, more simply, just multiply the Base MSRP by .0168. This tax is much higher than in other states and adds hundreds of dollars to a new vehicle purchase.

    The Registration Fee is a flat $8.00, and title is $4.00. Postage is $1.60 (apparently the VLT isn’t quite enough to cover stamps) and Air Quality Research is $1.50. The tire fee is a dollar per tire, including spare. Finally, the sticker costs a quarter – and only metro Phoenix and Tucson get the privilege.

    These are precisely calculated, compulsory taxes and fees. The dealer should never inflate these, so don't let them.
  • aroutharouth Posts: 45
    Hello,

    I have decided that if I can get the invoice price I will buy this month. However this TDA fee is frustrating me. I have recieved an offer for invoice, however there is still this pesky little fee.

    Also, check this out guys. I also recieved an offer almost $800 below invoice on a 2003 + a $1000.00 rebate for a total price of $14,700. The reason for this was b/c it had been sitting on the lot for a long time. Its still about $3000.00 above my price range and I just can't justify the cost but its interesting at least.

    I've heard of guys on here having the TDA waived. Who are you and what dealer did you buy through? I am going to special order, so I can pretty much buy anywhere and have it delivered to my state. I am in Omaha, Ne.

    Always try to buy a car at the end of the month:).
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,805
    At the risk of sounding like a broken record, offer to buy the SUV for $xx,xxx dollars complete and out the door. Then it won't matter if the dealer waves the TDA or some of its profit.

    If you get hung up on a fee, the salesperson is going to be able to say we don't waive that fee and are you willing to lose this deal for a few hundred bucks.

    Name your price and you wind up negotiating the bottom dollar, not line items.

    And if a dealer adds a fee after the "final" deal, walk.

    Steve, Host

    Moderator
    Need help navigating? stever@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • bjm02bjm02 Posts: 3
    The pricing game that we all have to play is crazy to say the least. I'm looking for someone to help me determine what is a fair and reasonable price for the following vehicle.
    Let me know if my pricing seems right and any additional fees that I should be including.
    2004 4 Runner V6 Limited 4x4
    Invoice: $31,897.00
    Dest Fee: $540
    Sunroof: $720
    Floor Mats: $112
    Daytime Running Lights: $32
    Rear Spoiler: $160
    JBL 6CD/10 speakers: $544
    Total Invoice: $34,005 (tax,title, tags, etc)
       
    What extra fees should I be adding in and what do you think is a fair price? Thanks
  • Hello vodgut,
        It was Stevinson toyota East on Havana. They were really great in negotiating, made us feel comfortable and offered a very reasonable price as you can tell. They are definitely worth a shot if anyone is thinking of getting a new toyota.
  • sacstate1sacstate1 Posts: 189
    bjm02: That seems on par for a Limited 4x4. Here is what I paid for a '03 Sport 4x4 V8, $31,750 with...

    sunroof
    rear cargo shelf
    JBL 10 speaker
    Dual Borla exhaust
    rear spoiler
    running boards
    floor mats
    5 yr/75000 extended warranty
  • aroutharouth Posts: 45
    Ok, thanks for the advice on here guys. I got invoice + a $95.00 doc fee.

    First of all the TDA seems to be legit. I got the invoice price + the TDA at one dealership. I then called at least 3 other dealers and basically said if you waive the TDA I will buy from you. These were sales managers too. They all said that Toyota charges them the TDA fee and there is nothing they can do. They said they couldn't waive it even if it meant them loosing a sale. Being that is the 31st of the month and all three of them said the same thing I believed them. However I did do some research. In other regions than Nebraska the TDA fee is different. In one place I called the TDA was only 325. I decided to order from my home though and just accept the loss.

    I paid invoice plus a $95.00 doc fee.
    These are the options I got.
           
    EJ JBL Synthesis 3-in-1 Stereo w/6- Disc Changer info
    GY Curtain and Side Airbags info
    PN Anti-Theft Alarm System info
    RF Rear Spoiler info
    EC Electrochromic Rearview Mirror info
    CM Double Decker Cargo info
    NA 115V AC Power Point info
    RL Daytime Running Lights info

    The edmunds prices on these are exactly correct.
    Invoice for a Sport V8 4WD with these options is $31626

    The TDA was $687

    The Doc fee was $95

    And there was a $6 gas fee. Didn't ask about that one.

    Total was $32,414

    I feel pretty good about this deal. $35,765 was MSRP and it would have been $36553 with TDA and Doc fee.

    If any of you guys think this is a bad deal tell me. I special ordered and I can cancel anytime.

    This is how I got invoice. I went online to the internet sales manager at a different dealership, and after going back and forth with them I got an offer of Invoice + 300. I then went to Performance Toyota and said that I wanted the invoice price. My exact words were"I have invoice + 300 right now, and I want the invoice price. If you give me say Invoice + 200 I'll just go to the next dealer and get invoice +100 and come back to you". They then gave me the invoice price.

    I told them that I would sleep on it. Today I called them up and asked about there doc fee. It was $199. I told them that the other two Toyota dealer's in the area had a $95 doc fee and if you matched that I would come on in. The salesmanager agreed, and I came in and made the deal. I was tempted to press and see if I could have gotten the doc fee waived, but I decided enough was enough.

    Anyway, again thanks for all the advice on this board. Oh, and the dealer I went through was Performance Toyota of Lavista Nebraska, and the salesman I used was Mark Husar.

    Thanks again.
  • vodgutvodgut Posts: 162
    I think TDA is included in the MSRP, given that the MSRP is well over invoice. MSRP is MSRP, there's not really any hidden fees in the window sticker (unless they tack on ADM or fabric guard or something)

    Sounds to me like you got a pretty good deal.
  • Bought 2004 4WD V8 SR5 with options. Edmund's invoice price with my options was $29,232. Dealer gave me price at $1,000. over (supposedly included $500 TDA as per my message #312 and a $500. profit for salesman.) I had an "owners loyalty certificate" from Toyota for $500 and then I walked out when he hit me with the TDA. He called back next day with another $500. incentive supposedly from Toyota. I took it and ended up at Edmund's invoice. Still tried to screw me when writing up contract. He had to tear it up and write a new one. Still managed to tax me on the last $500. incentive (extra $43. at 8.75% in Suffolk County), but I had my calculator with me and knew it at the time. Where would we all be without Edmund's? Definitely ripped off.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,805
    From a Toyota F&I member:

    cliffy1 "Toyota 4Runner" Nov 3, 2003 7:10pm

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    Moderator
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  • Anybody heard of any incentives for 4Runners coming (live in the Northeast)?
  • steveb84steveb84 Posts: 187
    ....in the Chicago Region.

    4Runners continue to sell well - most dealers wish they had more in stock - so there really is no need for incentives at this point. IMHO
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