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2013 and Earlier - Toyota 4Runner Prices Paid and Buying Experience

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Comments

  • jfritschjfritsch Posts: 958
    Have you read any of the above? Technically they are "new" 1st title, you want about 35c a mile off your best or bestest price on a new one, and frequently dealers like to work them (to people specifically looking for "demos") for more dough an ld they aren't worth screwing with.

    There are many dealers within 150 miles of you, solicit bids from 15-20 via email, (price otd with all dealer fees and tax for your county) last week or so of the month and find 3-4 who need to sell (vs want which they all want)

    Good luck
    --jjf

    I'm not to happy with the dealer selling the demo. He called yesterday and argued with me that it was in fact a new car. I understand that since it's never been titled that it's legally new, but that doesn't mean I'm paying new price for it.

    Here is the MSRP.

    I've found an identical vehicle at another dealer
    Vehicle Base Model ..........................:$ 30690.00 $ 30690.00

    50 State Emissions .........................

    Auto Dimming Rear View Mirror w/Compass .... 150.00

    Double Decker Cargo System w/Cargo Net ..... 125.00

    Value Package includes: 17" Alloy ......... 459.00

    Wheels w/P265/65R17 Tires, Leather .........

    Steering Wheel and Shift Knob: Includes: ...

    Cruise Control & Audio Controls, Power .....

    Tilt/Slide Moonroof w/Sunshade, Black ......

    Roof Rack & Cross Bars, and Tonneau Cover ..

    Rr Spoiler w/Center High Mounted Stop Lamp . 200.00

    Weight Carrying Tow Hitch and Ball Mount ... 430.00

    Kit (V6 Models Only) .......................

    Carpet Floor Mats/Cargo .................... 199.00

    --------- ---------

    Total Accessories ...........................: $ 1563.00 $ 1563.00

    Destination Charge ..........................: $ 685.00

    ---------

    Total .......................................: $ 32938.00
  • donselldonsell Posts: 27
    When I said identical, I wasn't totally accurate - it's new, not a demo. I've e-mail dealers in a 250 mile radius and I have initial information back from a lot of them. I've told them I wouldn't be purchasing until Memorial day weekend. But I wonder if incentives will be better in September.
  • jfritschjfritsch Posts: 958
    Don't really mean to be a party pooper with many on the truck forums, but if one looks up a 38000 pathfinder on kbb.com (used 07 with average miles ) and finds it has a trade in value of about 17000 if that, (this is what your 08 will be worth in 12 months) 27000 (35% discount) is not really anything to write home about. Eating 10 grand to drive an unpopular gas consuming vehicle the first 12 months is really not that appealing.

    As for Crazy sale (dealer ad) , its the dealers and factory going crazy to get rid of them and people crazy enough to buy them at such small discounts.


    I believe a 08 34000msrp 4runner has a trade in value of about 17000 (07), making even a 9000 off msrp deal nothing to write home about. Perhaps the price situation will improve as the manufacturing adjusts (and used vehicle supply) over the next few years but 10-15k off msrp now is about what these vehicles are worth. If you need one fine, but don't go buying because of the "huge" 8-10k discounts.

    Happy huntin

    --jjf
  • >> (this is what your 08 will be worth in 12 months)

    More like when it rolls out the door.
  • lilelvislilelvis Posts: 82
    You bring up good points JJF. I think it works well as an example. But, you have to remember a few things: MSRP is virtually meaningless. To get true depreciation, you need to take the acquisition cost, not the mfr's pipe dream. Which is why a $34,000 MSRP 4runner is really just a $25,000 SUV - because that is what it actually costs to a smart shopper.

    another thing is that Pathfinders depreciate far quicker than 4 runners (which is why I bought a used Pathfinder years ago). If I considered a Pathfinder an eqivilant vehicle (personally), i would buy one used before I would buy a used 4runner.

    Some buyers, like myself, hardly consider resale because they intend on keeping the vehicle until it is almost worthless anyway.

    The unfortunate thing is that the info you posted should justify very low prices for SUVs. But the reality seems to be that dealers have a certain price on each vehicle that they won't go below - even if they have to sit on the vehicle for months. Maybe they're waiting for the mfr to bail them out with more incentives. i don't know. It just seems ludicrous that a dealer would hold onto a car well into the next model year (for months and months) rather than just drop it another $1000 and move on. But that is what they seem to do.

    In other words, it seems a dealer would die with a vehicle rather than actually sell it at a $1000 loss (not $1000 below invoice, but $1000 under their cost). maybe they know the mfr will eventually give them more incentives or maybe they'll just use it as a loaner. I don't know, but it kind of flies in the face of supply and demand.
  • jfritschjfritsch Posts: 958
    Msrp being meaningless is no news.

    25000 for a vehicle worth 17000 trade in is no great shakes (23000 is ok, but still) especially for an unpopular vehicle getting 20mpg.

    Toyota is great at working its customers just as gm is theirs.

    At this unusual time you should be able to get much more off. If Toyota has its inventory control in gear (they don't depend on trucks as much as domestics) they'll do the usual and work their devotees for top dollar. If they've got it really in gear you may not even be able to get the usual august 7000 discount in your area. If so the 07 used mkt may be where to look.

    170 vehicles in a 30 mile radius may be a huge supply lying about, requiring a factory incentivevized "sale" . 20 or 30 lying about end of model year are leftovers that can be held onto over the next few months and sold (to the 10-20% of buyers who are truely clueless,or desperate) for good profit. Usually to those specifically looking for a "leftover" to save some money on. The profit on these sometimes approaches or exceeds the avg profit on the new ones. (why sell it to you for a 1000 loss if in a few months it will go for a 3000 profit from some guy with 4 kids in the showroom who's 13 year old car just exploded? (he drive's em until the wheels fall off) That small supply can be worked off like this.

    The old, I don't care because I drive em until the wheels fall off is illusory, usually not too harmful because there seems to be some limit to how much people can be taken anymore but with trucks this year pretty impressive. Theoretically, paying 34000 full msrp for a vehicle that could be purchased for 23000-26000, should be purchased for 21000, and has a trade in of 17000 in 12 months should be irrelevant as you're holding on to it for 12 years, 34000, 26000 whats the diff, why even quibble over $2000?

    Eating 10000 1st year from purchase price on a 38000 msrp Pathfinder LE or 10000 on a 34000 4runner (purchased for 27000) is 10k regardless, and Toyota's better depreciation etc becomes a bit meaningless, especially for trucks now.

    Get 10-12k off these machines new (08), see if you can pick up a used 07 for around kbb wholesale, or pay up if you really really need a new big SUV. If thats the case your best bets may be with the domestics.

    Good luck
    --jjf
  • boats3boats3 Posts: 40
    The deals are out there especially on used 4 Runners. I just picked up a 2006 fully loaded V8 except for the Nav, DVD, and Air Ride with less than 25,000 miles on it for under $20,000.

    The gas mileage for me is actually better so far than what I was driving. I had a Liberty that got about 17.5 miles on the highway and the 4Runner is getting 19.5 so I improved but I know that I am in the minority.
  • as91as91 Posts: 3
    donsell - you can get true dealer cost through consumer reports. I guess they have a service for $15 to get the actual dealer cost. I have not done this but someone I know has. They said it was worth the $15 for negotiations.
  • donselldonsell Posts: 27
    Very cool - I'll check it out. Thank you.
  • toyotakentoyotaken Posts: 897
    Why waste the money? The figures are just as easily obtainable here on edmunds. Consumer reports is just looking to soak you for the $15-$30 to get their "advice". Or just as easy, when you're at the dealership, ask to see the invoice. If you're working with any sort of reputable dealership, they should be willing to bring you the invoice to look at. Toyota doesn't have volume incentives like many other manufacturers, and if you're working on a vehicle that has rebates or special financing, the invoice is the accurate amount that the dealership paid for the vehicle.

    Just my $.02
  • jfritschjfritsch Posts: 958
    Yeah, CS has the same figures available here as well as kbb and other places on the web. Invoice figures varying by about 130 dollars are pretty meaningless when depending on how smart you work it you are shooting for $10000-13000+ off a truck
    Figure in how smart you work your trade in another $800-3000. And of course financing ($500-3000 over 4 or so years).

    Don't spend too much time wondering why some different sources vary $100-200 on the invoice price of a certain vehicle.

    Good luck
    --jjf

    Why waste the money? The figures are just as easily obtainable here on edmunds. Consumer reports is just looking to soak you for the $15-$30 to get their "advice". Or just as easy, when you're at the dealership, ask to see the invoice. If you're working with any sort of reputable dealership, they should be willing to bring you the invoice to look at. Toyota doesn't have volume incentives like many other manufacturers, and if you're working on a vehicle that has rebates or special financing, the invoice is the accurate amount that the dealership paid for the vehicle.

    Just my $.02
  • donselldonsell Posts: 27
    From what I read, there is a lot of information that isn't on the dealer's invoice. That's why a dealer can give you invoice + $1 and still make a killing. I wouldn't mind spending a little if it told me how low the dealer would really be willing to go.
  • lilelvislilelvis Posts: 82
    Another thing we haven't mentioned is the other ways dealers make money even when selling a car at "cost."

    Processing fees - Why don't they just call this what it is - profit. These seem to range from $99 to several hundred. They can call it a firetruck for all I care, but it is just profit for them. I also tend to think the "transportation fees" they are adding on nowadays is full of profit as well. I think it is around $675 for a 4runner.

    Extended warranties - these are cash cows for the dealers. Figure several hundred dollars for them right there if you take their extended warranty.

    Financing - I'm not sure if they make money when using the mfr 0% deals, but when they use their in house financing for your loan they get money for that as well.

    Undercoating, VIN etching, floor mats, etc - besides the dubious value of these in the first place, they are profit heavy for the dealer.

    And then any servicing you have done at that dealer.

    There are several other items too, but you get the point. Even if a dealer sold you a vehicle at their true "cost" they could make a tidy some elsewhere.
  • donselldonsell Posts: 27
    I pulled the trigger on a new 4Runner SR5 V6 yesterday. MSRP: $32,799, Invoce $29,240 Paid $25,279 before trade. $7,520 under MSRP, $3961 under invoice.

    This was in from Omaha. There had been slight hail damage which the dealer repaired and was not evident. I imagine he made some insurance money there.
  • I am thinking of buying a new 2008 4runner next week. Can I get some input from the folks here who got a 4 runner recently? like the price paid? how much off the invoice? I am in texas. Thanks in advance!
  • We bought the brand new SR5 V6 4WD yesterday at Chicago area. SR5 value package 1, real spoiler, tow hitch, day time running lights and mats set. Only 2 miles. Invoice is around $29612. We got the price $25050 + TTL. This is more than $1000 below the invoice after the rebate. Thanks to my wife, she was amazingly good at negotiation of the price. The only extra option we picked is leather seats upgrade for $1395.
  • I am looking at getting to Toyota this month. Pricing at the first dealership was:
    30217 Invoice
    +600 Mark-up
    30817 Total

    -2500 Rebate (September)
    Price 27300 + TTD

    The dealer said that there may be some wiggle room and I don't have to buy a car now. I have seen some posts that are down in the 24,500 range. So I have 2 questions.
    1. Where do I find the MSRP or calculate the invoice-incentive price?
    2. What should I offer?
  • Where do I find the MSRP or calculate the invoice-incentive price?
    edmunds.com
  • I made an offer today using the guidelines that I saw online in this subject. The first question asked by the sales guy was "Here is our invoice price, how much above invoice would you like to pay?" My reply is that I do not want to pay over invoice. He then asked "Do you want to pay invoice price?". I said no and I wanted to pay below invoice. He gave me a strange look and I then offered about 3500 under invoice + the rebate for a total of 23884 vs invoice of 29884. He said that his dealer does not sell below invoice. Not even a second offer back to me. I have now emailed 10 other dealers similar to a suggestion here. I have no trade and will pay cash. Any other suggestions that anyone may have? Does my offer sound reasonable? :)
  • It's a tough call in this market since 4runners are sitting on lots. That being said, asking a dealer to eat $3500 or so is a lot.

    If you conservatively figure their cost as invoice minus hold back (let's say $500) minus any mfr to dealer incentives (currently $1000 marketing support) then they break even at about $1500 under invoice. Of course that assumes they are getting the holdback and not using the marketing support.

    Now, maybe they would be willing to lose some money to clear some inventory - maybe not.

    An earlier post said he got $1000 under invoice and that seems real good. Also don't forget those additional fees (processing fees, transportation, etc). That is really just profit for the dealer. If they insist on charging you those, your offer should be that much lower.

    So the answer is: "Who knows" I would guess $3500 under is way too low, but in this market maybe not. There just isn't enough data points in this thread to get a good idea on an exact number. But you have given us one more.

    Have you tried e-mailing dealers outlining the exact truck you want and stating if you get me that truck I will buy today for $XXXXX? I think I would try that at $1500 or $2000 under and see how it goes. Please post your results - this thread is sorely lacking hard numbers.
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