Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





New S40/V50

13032343536

Comments

  • avolvofanavolvofan Posts: 358
    While I would love to include a URL to a website that lists problems with the E46 transmission, such a post is a violation of the Edmunds conditions of use of this website.

    Don't know about CR's ratings of the A/T in the E46, but ironically, this past December, when I was curious about the E46, I visited the local BMW dealer and at the start of the test drive, I was able to re-create the condition that is causing the most controversy with the A/T in the E46. Specifically, in a cold start condition (in my experience, the outside temperature was approximately 50 degrees F and the car had not been operated at least overnight), putting the transmission in reverse and then immediately shifting into drive right after starting the engine resulted in a period of slippage of the transmission clutch pack(s) such that for about 15 to 20 seconds, the transmission did not appear to be engaged. It was as if the transmission was in neutral instead of drive....

    The salesman's response was that the service manager would check into the condition that I had been able to replicate and that BMW cars came with a 4 year/50,000 mile warranty and that any problems would be fixed under warranty. (Not much that you can do in such a circumstance, when the customer has found a piece of dirty laundry, so to speak....) I replied that I would rather have a problem-free car at delivery and that perhaps I would check back in a couple of months. I then checked with some BMW owners that I know about the dealership's service department, and things went from bad to worse.
  • mazda6smazda6s Posts: 1,901
    Are all 10 auto trans?
  • avolvofanavolvofan Posts: 358
    Mercedes has a neat little disclaimer about their safety technology. It runs something along the lines of: ...while no system can re-write the laws of physics....

    I rather doubt that a stability control system on a rear wheel drive car can do a better job of fighting a spin than a similar system (such as DSTC on the Volvo) in conjunction with the Haldex AWD system that will be available around the end of 2004 for the S40.

    I would even favorably compare the Haldex AWD in the S40 with the AWD in the BMW xi models - the Haldex AWD is integrated with the DSTC computer, such a circumstance is not present in the E46.
  • cotmccotmc Posts: 1,081
    Having previously owned a '99 328i, and now having just leased an '04.5 S40, I would agree with both statements. The S40 is not a match for the E46's steering and ride, but I do believe it is a "credible contender".

    I had been seriously checking out another BMW, this time an '04 325i. But for me, cost played a significant role in my decision. This time, I wasn't willing to pay a few thousand extra for a small improvement in steering feel and ride comfort. I also wasn't willing to buy a "stripped" BMW to try to get its cost down. (Leatherette in this Arizona heat?!!) Don't forget the little things, such as insurance costs, and the short BMW performance tire life when equipped with the sport package. ($600+ for tires every 17K-20K miles.) There is also the BMW "image" factor, as some people out here seem to truly detest BMW drivers!

    No doubt, the S40 grew on me. I liked its steering, ride, and handling characteristics more than the TSX, A4 1.8T FWD, or any other FWD car I have driven. And this was without the sports suspension, as I wanted a strong balance of overall ride quality. I also truly appreciate the S40's exterior lines, especially in the black or dark gray colors.

    I believe Volvo is offering some lease incentives. Thanks to some excellent number crunching by my salesman at Powell Volvo, I am looking at a total monthly payment well below $300. No, it's not a 2.5T, but the 2.4i with the leather, moonroof, power seat, and the other Premium Package extras. As fast as the 2.5T can scoot, I wanted to avoid even the slightest hint of turbo lag, after having grown disappointed with the non-linear acceleration of our former A4 1.8T. And, more importantly, I was attempting to keep my costs low. For my commute, the 2.4i is just fine. Engine noise is a bit loud during quick accelerations, but it seems relatively quiet enough at highway speeds.
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 14,629
    The MT isn't out yet. I believe they will show up sometime late summer, when the '05s arrive.

    2013 Acura RDX (wife's), 2007 Volvo S40 (daughter stole that one), and 2000 Acura TL (formerly son's, now mine again)

  • creakid1creakid1 Posts: 2,032
    Totally agree w/ you. The new S40 is an uncannily lovable car, despite having worse steering/handling/ride compromise than the std 325i.

    The S40's residual value seems worse than the 325i, though. So last month, a 6-cyl $30k 325i auto was advertised at $2528 drive off @ $299/mo for 36 mo @ 10k/yr.

    "As fast as the 2.5T can scoot, I wanted to avoid even the slightest hint of turbo lag, after having grown disappointed with the non-linear acceleration of our former A4 1.8T.'

    We leased a Passat 1.8 turbo auto since Feb. Oh boy, forget this engine! Std lumbar for both front seats are highly praised, though.

    Have you driven the T5's 2.5 turbo? It's whole lot more pleasant than that!
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 14,629
    Keep in mind that what someone is used to colors their perception of something new. Frankly, most people don't have experience with owning (probably even driving) a BMW, so they aren't making that comparison. Coming out of an (ugh) Exploder, or Taurus, Camry, or some other such appliance, the Volvo is probably going to look/drive damned good. Also, some of the limitations you point out only show up under certain conditions that not everyone will experience.

    As always, people should drive anything they are interested in, and decide what they like (or more accurately, which compromises they are willing to make, since there is no "perfect" car).

    2013 Acura RDX (wife's), 2007 Volvo S40 (daughter stole that one), and 2000 Acura TL (formerly son's, now mine again)

  • cotmccotmc Posts: 1,081
    Points well taken! By the way, it's a shame the Passat no longer offers the 6cyl engine in the GLS trim. Even if you move all the way up in price to the GLX V6, isn't it the old 190hp VR6 engine?

    This month Volvo is advertising a base 2.4i lease with $2495 cap reduction, $595 acquisition fee @ $229/mo for 36 mo @ 10K/yr. Since I wanted the Premium Package, we went with a different lease deal through a local bank. But thanks to a Volvo cap reduction incentive as well as my salesman at Powell Volvo, my own lease is in the same "ballpark", or possibly even better, when considering the added ammenities. I totally suspect the S40 residual to be a little weaker than the 325i, but the Volvo lease incentive seems to definitely improve the lease pricing of the S40 versus this month's lease numbers on the 325i.
  • creakid1creakid1 Posts: 2,032
    "Even if you move all the way up in price to the GLX V6, isn't it the old 190hp VR6 engine?"

    No, the Passat is really an Audi -- no VW engines.

    This 2.8 is an Audi V6, not the VW 15-degree VR6 also labeled as V6 these days used in Jetta/Golf.

    Even the 1.8 turbo is really an Audi engine w/ 5-valve per cylinder.

    Since Audi now uses 3.0 instead of 2.8, CR pointed out that the Passat's 2.8 is the only engine w/o the coil recall that plagues everywhere in the VW/Audi family, & hence the car pretty much got the highest reliability rating of all European cars.

    The FWD Passat is the only "Audi" left w/ the old rear suspension. Rest of the FWD Audi's are now adopting the multi-link suspension from the AWD models.

    & of course, the upcoming new FWD Passat/Jetta/Golf/A3 got the Focus-type 4-link Control-blade rear suspension, just like the new S40.
  • creakid1creakid1 Posts: 2,032
    "In the recent R&T, although the s80 finished last, it did so in subjective handling courses, but it finished first in ride with a perfect score, ahead of the Mercedes E, BMW 5, Jaguar XJ, Audi A6, and others including the Caddy CTS, which finished first overall. In other comparison tests, lately, Volvo has done well in ride comfort, and finished tops quite a few times, even in British mags."

    The S60 rode better than the 3-series sedan in that Brit's CAR comparison because the lowered sport suspension has just become std equipment on all European 3-series sedans.

    CR bashed Volvo's ride again in the June '04 issue. First, it was the S60 not being able to match the C-class & non-sport 3-series. Ride wise, this time even the new 5-series &, more so, the S-Type are being ranked 2nd-best behind the E-class. While the S80 is way behind, especially at lower speeds.

    Sounds like the new 5-series only excels in quietness this time. They said the old 5-series scored better than the new one despite more cramped interior. & the E-class is the only one in the group that got rated high in routine handling!

    It's no big deal if you're only trying to find a better ride comfort than the 3-series coupe or sedan w/ sport suspension, 'cause the S40 T-5 w/o sport suspension can do it. The question is will Volvo's have hard time just to beat the much-lower-price Honda Accord's ride/handling/steering compromise? I suspect that Accord's somewhat firm ride has got deeper absorption, as C&D pointed out that even the firmer Mazda6 uses up the spring travel sooner than the Accord!

    The only thing that feels good about the non-sport S40's ride/handling is the slow-motion calm movement that's fun to play around as long as you're not facing the really big ones only the Mercedes/BMW/Peugeot can swallow.
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 14,629
    lots of people are buying the name (snob appeal) as opposed to make practical decisions. If they weren't, there would be a lot more Camry XLEs sold and a lot fewer Lexus ES330s (for one example).

    2013 Acura RDX (wife's), 2007 Volvo S40 (daughter stole that one), and 2000 Acura TL (formerly son's, now mine again)

  • creakid1creakid1 Posts: 2,032
    Once I thought getting a Ford Focus will be enjoyable. Then one of my friends advised me, "If you can't afford a Mercedes, at least get an Avalon in order to find a wife." What does this suppose to mean?

    I'm not the type of guy trying to impress my future mother in-law by being a boring dork -- "Gee, I may not be a skillful driver, but I have the Volvo as an guardian angel whenever I crash."

    If I'm proud of the new S40, it's due to the car's bona fide inner strength. Perhaps this is gonna be the 1st Volvo that'll top CR's safety rating by outperforming other Volvo's in accidence avoidance maneuver. Most accidents can be attributed by the clumsiness of your car & driving skill.

    How many times do I have to tell a student driver to "At least let go the gas AS SOON AS you see red traffic light or brake lights in front of you!" Nobody had to teach me this. Talk about fundamental mental instinct.
  • josh684josh684 Posts: 55
    There is a difference between luxury and base brand. My dad owns an Infiniti QX56, everyone says you should have gotten the Pathfinder Armada. If you drive both trucks they are totally different. First off, you get better warranty and Loaner Car every time. Also, the truck is nicer inside, better ride, and more insulation to keep noise outside. Most of these things make the car/truck much better. So there is a reason to gettting the better brand.
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    yes, but while you may think the QX56 is worth the premium over the Pathfinder Armada, the person down the street who drives a Pathfinder Armada may think that the Pathfinder Armada is a better value and that the perks that you get with the QX56 aren't worth it.
  • twilliatwillia Posts: 29
    Since there is no S40 on the Prices Paid Message Board, I thought I would ask this question here. I'm looking at getting a 2004.5 (or maybe ordering a 2005) Volvo S40. The MSRP is $33,750 with everything that I want in it. The invoice price is $31,386 (according to MSN Auto; edmunds.com doesn't list the complete invoice price) and Edmund's TMV is $33,399. For anyone who's bought a 2004.5 Volvo S40 did you get a better deal than the TMV for your configured vehicle? Did you pay close to MSRP or close to invoice?

    Thanks.
  • volvomaxvolvomax Posts: 5,274
    The AWD will be automatic only.
    T5 manuals will be available fwd.
  • lev_berkovichlev_berkovich Posts: 858
    Max,
    Do you know when the 2004.5 S40/V50 will be available for the OSD, and will it get the same kind of discount as the rest of the cars?
  • volvomaxvolvomax Posts: 5,274
    2004.5 cars will not be available.
    2005's can be ordered now, although we have no prices yet.
    Delivery in Europe starting in July.
  • benjaminsbenjamins Posts: 56
    "The S60 rode better than the 3-series sedan in that Brit's CAR comparison because the lowered sport suspension has just become std equipment on all European 3-series sedans."

    It seems they were even. European Automobile magazine had a different take. They thought the s60 had too little compression damping and that the damping relied on too much secondary damping resulting in "abruptness". They thought the sports suspension had the ideal damping. The writer stated his bias of not minding impact harshness and thought the s60 with sports suspension, although having impact harshness from tires, was the more fluid car in both ride and handling. It's interesting the differences that the professional reviewers have about cars.

    "CR bashed Volvo's ride again in the June '04 issue. First, it was the S60 not being able to match the C-class & non-sport 3-series. Ride wise, this time even the new 5-series &, more so, the S-Type are being ranked 2nd-best behind the E-class. While the S80 is way behind, especially at lower speeds."

    I expect CR to bash Volvos (and Saabs for that matter). They even bashed the xc90, a vehicle that receives a lot of praise from many publications. I take what they say with a grain of salt. Perhaps the s80's tires were overinflated, that's the only thing that can explain their coming to this conclusion. The s80 is definitely softer sprung and damped than the German cars, unless the new E is softer than the old (did they test the one with air suspension?). The s80's low speed ride suffers from some lumpiness but that's erased at moderate speeds. The s80 has very slow rebound and close to seemlessly checked motions, it doesn't handle great, handles OK, but it is a car that should not be criticized for ride comfort, IMO. Even Edmunds praises the ride comfort of the latest s80s. I also wonder why CR didn't test an s80 with 4C. Comfort mode is espressly for low speed driving. Sports for everything else. My compaints about the s80 is some more road noise on some roads than should be, sometimes flakiness in the cabins and electrics, terrible turning circle, steering feedback.

    "It's no big deal if you're only trying to find a better ride comfort than the 3-series coupe or sedan w/ sport suspension, 'cause the S40 T-5 w/o sport suspension can do it. The question is will Volvo's have hard time just to beat the much-lower-price Honda Accord's ride/handling/steering compromise? I suspect that Accord's somewhat firm ride has got deeper absorption, as C&D pointed out that even the firmer Mazda6 uses up the spring travel sooner than the Accord!"

    Hmmm. I think we should match sports suspension with sports suspension as the 3 series w/o sports suspension is mighty comfortable and calm, with a trace of a firm edge. It uses nicer materials inside than the Volvo, although the Volvo is certainly the most contemporary and bold of the two designs. If Volvo is in the same park as BMW, that's fine, but if it lacks suspension travel as you state, then certain roads will reveal this.

    The Accord is a different beast. It's a poor man's Acura RL. It isn't as sporty as the Volvo even with the firmish ride it has. It is bigger. It may be quieter, especially the 6. If someone is looking for a family car then the Accord makes more sense than the Volvo but the Volvo is perceived as much safer. The Volvo's usual seat advantage doesn't come into play as much in the two cars. Maybe Volvo is more stylish, the 4 door Accord looks strange from the back and front, and OK from the side. The last generation Accord certainly didn't have a deep ride, for me it didn't ride as well as the Passat, big bumps and deep ruts upset it more than they did the Passat (which is also upset by these types of roads). Interestingly, the old s40 did OK, but sudden humps and potholes and deep manhole covers were met with pretty juddery reactions, much moreso than Accord or Passat. I think the Volvo is in a somewhat different category than Accord, the Volvo is with Jetta and TSX and other cars that sacrifice some practicality for style and performance.
  • creakid1creakid1 Posts: 2,032
    "They thought the s60 had too little compression damping and that the damping relied on too much secondary damping resulting in "abruptness"."

    Secondary damping -- that's what I've been suspecting all along about my aunt's AWD S70's uncomfortable abrupt ride.

    So I wonder if the S60 w/ relatively highly-rated ride comfort compare to the 3-series sport in CAR was w/ the consistently fluid sport suspension?

    I also suspect progressive-rate spring doesn't ride as well as linear-rate spring. The idea of progressive-rate is when a flat-riding sport spring is too firm for comfort, they change the first-inch(or so) compression to soft just to keep the superficial harshness away. But a bad result is when more people/cargo are loaded, the ride height drops immediately compare to a linear-rate spring w/ the same average firmness. That ruins the ride comfort 'cause the remaining spring travel is lessened.
  • benjaminsbenjamins Posts: 56
    "I also suspect progressive-rate spring doesn't ride as well as linear-rate spring. The idea of progressive-rate is when a flat-riding sport spring is too firm for comfort, they change the first-inch(or so) compression to soft just to keep the superficial harshness away. But a bad result is when more people/cargo are loaded, the ride height drops immediately compare to a linear-rate spring w/ the same average firmness. That ruins the ride comfort 'cause the remaining spring travel is lessened. "

    I agree. Volvo tried progressive-rate springs and then put Nivomats on the back of the cars in the 760s. The early 760s suffered from feeling too soft on humps yet too stiff at the same time. But too stiff when it should be compliant and too soft where it should be controlled. The IRS helped the 760, but still the 88 and later 760s had this characteristic. The s70's/v70 has abrupt rebound, at any tuning it is pronounced. The s70s with 17 inch tires are quite uncomfortable and unsettled. Nice on smooth roads, falls apart on poor roads. 960s, though too soft in springing and too much vertical motion, rode better. More fluid. The funny thing with the s70 is that with Bilsteins, the abruptness rarely reveals itself. The ride is then kind of rigid, but at least controlled. More comfortable compromise.

    Saab has gone to tuning bushings to soft vertical and firm horizontal with mixed results. There's still some degree of progressive spring rates for the 9-3. Ride suffers. Volvo thankfully has slowed the rebound but still seems to be dealing with progressive rates but with less of a range. Seems like they also payed close attention to bushings and connections, but ride can seem "rubbery" at times.
  • creakid1creakid1 Posts: 2,032
    "The early 760s suffered from feeling too soft on humps yet too stiff at the same time. But too stiff when it should be compliant and too soft where it should be controlled."

    Right on! I was wondering what the hell happened to the $25k we spent on the '86 760 Turbo? I couldn't believe the ride. It still rode uncomfortably over bumps when more people/cargo was added, or travel at higher speed. While I was whining that my parents should have invested in a 300E instead, people think I'm crazy. So I went to the junk yard, got a set of 740 rear springs & replace all shocks w/ Gabriel GasRyder. The ride became not as ridiculous, but still uncomfortable. & I'm pretty sure the already-relatively-long spring's progressive-rate might be the only culprit.

    "The IRS helped the 760, but still the 88 and later 760s had this characteristic."

    CAR pointed out that the '88 760 sedan w/ IRS rode less comfortably than the wagon w/ solid rear axle.

    "There's still some degree of progressive spring rates for the 9-3. Ride suffers."

    Right before choosing the '86 760 Turbo, we test drove the Saab 9000 turbo. The only bump we encountered was a one-time horizontal dip, & the car moved quickly down & up w/o much absorption although the spring travel didn't get used up. But this limited data was enough to get me suspicious that I asked my dorm mates to let me carpool in their 900 turbo for a long trip but got refused 'cause they don't want to squeeze more than 4 people in the car. So later we test drove the 740 turbo but the stubborn old-man salesman didn't bother to let us test on bumpy roads & only persuaded my parents that Mercedes is too expensive. So we ended up buying a 760 turbo from another dealer for under $23k plus tax. It's the most expensive & pointless car we've ever purchased.

    & then when I discovered that my Indiana aunt's 240 never rode uncomfortably, I was wondering why.

    Anyway, today's new S40 w/o sport suspension is tuned pretty comfortably although not so deep.
  • creakid1creakid1 Posts: 2,032
    I just test drove the non-sport 325i again today.

    Especially w/ the 6-way-only std manual seat, the driving position is stressful! Even w/ the seat raised until I ran out of headroom under the moonroof & had to recline to an awkward arm-stretching driving position, the non-adjustable thigh angle just couldn't support my thighs.

    Like the Mazda3, as I provoked the abrupt lane change at low speed, the rear end twitched out some, even w/ the presence of DSC. The S40 sure feels more secure as far as having the tail to stay put, w/ or w/o the sport suspension.

    Despite less suspension travel than the non-sport 325i, the non-sport T5 has a calmer slower-motion ride over bumps. The Beemer moves quickly back to the baseline after each bump in no time to get ready for the next one. So unless the bumps are pretty deep, the Volvo has a more relaxing ride.

    So, more relaxing driving position, more relaxing handling to toss around along w/ more relaxing ride, the Volvo is more enjoyable, & therefore wins, in a way.

    The Focus platform kept spawning as if it's becoming the best selling design in the world. Lately, besides the long-wheel-base future Mondeo & Galaxy minivan from Europe, there are the C50 convertible & C30 3-dr hatch.
  • volvomaxvolvomax Posts: 5,274
    Actually it will be called the C70, not C50.
    Launch is in one year.
    C30 still on the drawing board.
  • windsorwindsor Posts: 12
    I just leased the brand new S40 2.4i (2004.5). I got it with the premium package, as well as the climate package. I put 3600 down, and my payments are 278 a month. The dealership actually called me back today and tried to say that my payments would go up 10 bucks a month because the bank took my esperian score as opposed to my equifax score, which dropped me a tier (B.S. ??? I don't know). Anyhow, I think I got a good deal, no?

    Matt
  • creakid1creakid1 Posts: 2,032
    What do you think? Is the lease posted in #998 a good deal? Compare to:
    cotmc May 19, 2004 11:10pm

    Anyway, the 325i auto we re-ordered w/ metallic($475), memory power seats w/ mirror auto-tilt-down on reverse($995), sport seats w/ manual cushion extension($550), power 4-way lumbar($450) & arriving around June 18 has MSRP about $32600. I really think only the last 2 options are necessary, & would rather swap metallic paint & motorized seats w/ the grey leather($1450) instead of the burning vinyl, which only comes in black or sand -- yuck!

    It was based on the good lease program advertised prior to April 30, so ours was $3228 drive off w/ 35 more payments of $299/mo@10k-mi/yr.
  • windsorwindsor Posts: 12
    A crazy twist...I was surprised when power volvo called me back, saying that they couldn't get my loan approved at the rate first quoted, and that my lease payments would go up ten dollars. I was surprised as I had ran my own credit on myfico only two weeks prior. Anyhow, the dealership said my score through experian was 645, so I ran it on myfico, and it is actually 693, just as I expected. I'm not sure what the dealership is trying to do, but if anybody has advice, please let me know.
  • jrct9454jrct9454 Posts: 2,363
    ...find another dealer.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Bummer, no V50 AWD manual tranny?

    -juice
  • volvomaxvolvomax Posts: 5,274
    fraid its true, to manual AWD
This discussion has been closed.