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Honda Odyssey Future Models

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Comments

  • Saftey and security of AWD are somewhat of an industry myth. AWD helps you accelerate on slippery roads. It doesn't help you stop, and it doesn't help you steer - the two biggest safety issues (remember we are comparing vs FWD minivan, not an RWD Mustang). In fact, the added traction of AWD during acceleration may fool you into thinking you have more braking traction than you actually do.

    The difference AWD would make is in driving in deep, uncompacted snow. If you live in a very rural area or frequently travel to a vacation home that isn't plowed, I could see the value. If you live in a suburban or urban area, it is tough to see the benefit of AWD. Especially given the increased vehicle, maintainence, and fuel costs.

    The biggest safety difference you can make are the tires.

    I live in Saint Paul and we get our fair share of snow. My two current cars are both FWD Volvos, an 850 and an S70. Both have traction control. Both do fine in the Minnesota winters. For the 850 I have a set of Blizzak snows mounted on steel rims that go on around Halloween. The tires are absolutely amazing. They are like claws. The road noise, treadlife, and handling have been great.
  • dannodanno Posts: 114
    I also live in a cold, snowy area - Norhern Ontario Canada. I have a FWD van and a Ford Escape with 4 wheel drive. I have Blizzak snow tires for both vehicles. The 4 wheel drive aids in starting from a start but that's about it in terms of advantages. The snow tire traction for braking, steering and ride comfort! is amazing vs. all-season tires. Snow tires on mounted dedicated steel rims is highly recommended.
  • Imo, VCM is a band-aid for poor engineering and design. Toyotas and Lexus' are quiet w/out vcm because their designers took the time to build a fundamentaly quiet car from the ground up. It'll be a pity if the sound levels in the EX are the same as prior models as it will not allow me to justify trading in my '01 for the
    8 passenger version.
  • I remember reading an article regarding AWD that said basically what others have said here, in that it's not as effective as it's made out to be.

    I have a question for all of you men out there....with the Pax tires on the Touring how does that affect the possibility of putting snow tires on in the winter, if at all? Not that we've ever put winter tires on, but since it's taken me a good four tries to get up our own driveway the past couple of winters, it would be worth considering. Thanks in advance!
  • I am still hoping someone can advise me on the feasibility of having the 8 way power option installed on the front passenger seat. This will probably have to be done after market as I dont see it listed in the specs. As my wife has back problems this is a "must have" option for us.
  • I think you missed the point of VCM - it has nothing to do with a quite vehicle. In fact, VCM adds noise, which is why special engine mounts and "anti-sound" are employed when VCM is used. The "anit-sound" has the added benefit of reducing some of the noise not caused by VCM which is why the EX-L and Touring are quieter.

    As for LX and EX, if you trust the press release then they are quieter than the 04's due to a new sound deadending material.
  • fbearfbear Posts: 117
    VCM is not a band aid for noise. It is for fuel economy. Because it makes the car run on 3 cylinders (instead of 6) those three cylinders must rev higher and therefore make more noise. ANC was added to cancel that noise. I don't recall hearing that Lexus or Toyota even have VCM in the first place. It is VCM that enables the Ody to do better than the sienna in EPA.
  • Or you can have BOTH. I bought an extra set of 17" Sienna rims for my XLE AWD on Ebay (stole them actually), and I already have a set of Blizzaks on order from The Tire Rack. Snow tires have special tread patterns, as well as softer rubber compounds that afford better snow & ice traction. Added to AWD, they're even better.

    To others who are bashing AWD here, it sounds a little bit like sour grapes to me. Good thing you Honda fans think AWD is valueless, since it's glaringly absent from the '05 Odyssey's list of available features.
  • fbearfbear Posts: 117
    Here are the 3 things that Honda says they have done to reduce noise:

    1
    "Floating front and rear subframes with rubber bushings (new on rear subframe)"

    2
    "Advanced sound absorbing material lines majority of cabin (new material technology)"

    3
    "Active Noise Control (exclusive to EX with Leather and Touring models)"

    Because ANC works to counteract any steady droning noise, it should be able to cancel some of the road or wind "hum" in addition to the noise generated by VCM. In Honda's words:
     
    "the audio system analyzes the sound waves entering the cabin, and then instantaneously creates an opposite sound wave (anti-noise) to cancel the unwanted noise."

    It is the same as BOSE noise cancellation headphones if you have ever put on a pair. They cancel the hum in your office or on a plane to an amazing extent.
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    As far as I'm aware, you can put snow tires on the Touring model......BUT, you will also need to purchase a set of rims (wheels) to go with them since the Pax tires require a special rim which is incompatible with ALL other tires on the market. This shouldn't be that big of a deal since most people that I know of keep their snow tires permanently mounted on a cheap set of steel rims and switch everything out rather than deal with remounting tires.

    I've also read somewhere (can't remember where right now), that Michelin is planning to manufacturer a Pax snow tire but that at this time they are not available.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,671
    Does anybody know the prices of the "low end" models?

    My current Accord has melted M&M's and spilled pop/juice on the seats. The floor has matching decor with old fries, the odd sock and crusty hamburger buns...I can't see paying 38K+ for a mini-van, but mid to low 20's seems ok.

    Too bad there isn't a DX model. I can slide my own doors and roll up my own windows. If my wife didn't insist, I'd even consider not getting the ABS and air bags etc.

    Priorities:
    Safety (I know the ABS propaganda)
    Price
    Reliability
    the rest is just "fluff"
  • I bought my Blizzaks from tire rack as well. I ordered them pre-mounted on steel rims so all I have to do is swap out the wheels. To give everybody an idea of the $$$ we are talking about I just priced Blizzaks on steel rims for an 2004 Ody. $588 from tirerack.com. When you think about the price also consider that you will be extending the calender life of your "all season" tires since you won't be putting a many miles on them.

    As for sour grapes, perhaps for some but not certainly not for me. I wouldn't buy it if they had it. The only reason I would consider AWD on a Sienna is because it includes other things I would want, such as rear disk brakes, VSC, and side curtain airbags. These are optional on the FWD, but we all know about Siennas and option packages.

    The most glaringly problematic things for me are what a lot of others see:

    no way to get 8 seats and a power liftgate. I have a Red Touring with DVD/NAVI being built for me week after next, but I may have to pass in favor of the EX-L because I do want that 8th seat. (note that the reviews are comflicting at to its value - one said store it in the garage, another said comfortable even for an adult).
  • This is just fascinating to me. I understand how Bose noise cancelling head phones work - destructive interference of sound waves. But in a car there are so many variables.

    Does Hondas ANC work if the sound system is turned off?

    Does it used the same set of speakers as the rest of the audio system?

    If speakers are shared, how does it work if you are playing something else through the audio system? i.e. if you crank the sound system, is the anti-noise also "cranked"?

    This is a feature that just seems awesome if it really works.
  • I'm suffering with the ex-l vs. Touring dilemma myself. My white Touring with res & navi should be one of the first ones into the dealership. How am I going to pass it up once I see it? I REALLY wanted the power liftgate, but I'm not sold on the PAX tires. I don't NEED the 8th seat, but there have been plenty of times it would have come in handy (we have three kids, our best friends have 4). Bottom line, I just don't know if I can suck up around $37,500....I'm trying to convince myself that I can live contentedly for the next 5 to 7 years with the EX-L with RES/Navi. I wonder how much that combo would actually save me???
  • fbearfbear Posts: 117
    nowakj66- below is a quote from Honda about ANC which may partially answer your question. I would think that it would have to work even when you are listening to something through the sound system but how?...perhaps it could add the anti-noise to whatever else is coming through or perhaps it borrows a couple of the speakers.

    Anyway, here is the quote (and notice Honda's sense of humor in the last sentence.

    "The ANC system uses a microphone at the front of the vehicle interior to create "anti-noise" through the audio system speakers.

    More specifically, the audio system analyzes the sound waves entering the cabin, and then instantaneously creates an opposite sound wave (anti-noise) to cancel the unwanted noise."...

    "The system will not counteract voices inside the cabin whether desired or not."
  • ace1000ace1000 Posts: 151
    With the Touring model, you will be driving without a spare if you replace the PAX tires with a set of four snow tires and rims.

    Also, the VSA (stability control) system is much better than traction control or AWD at controlling skids in snow. VSA works when braking and steering; AWD doesn't. Both Mercedes and Toyota have said that stability control systems are the most important drivetrain innovation for controlling a vehicle and avoiding accidents - more important than AWD. VSA should also be better than traction control at accelerating on wet or snowy roads.
  • acenjacenj Posts: 58
    i'm a fairly good driver and have driven numerous cars w/ trac control as well as 4 wheel drive cars and suv's. problem I have with most trac control systems is you can't get up inclines with them as easy as you can w/ AWD.
    just my 2 cents. I swore i'd never pay for trac control again after the last exp. w/ mercedese.

    Ace
  • ace1000ace1000 Posts: 151
    What is in the spare tire compartment on the Touring model? Is this where the subwoofer is, or is it available to put a spare in?

    If you can put a spare in the Touring model, then you can have the best of both worlds. If you are going somewhere and don't have time to take the van in for service, or if you want to just drop the wheel off and continue to drive while it is being repaired, then you could put the spare on. Or you could go to the dealer and get a new wheel and tire installed while you wait. Of course, you would also have to get a jack to use the spare, but you may be able to buy a spare and jack as parts from Honda.
  • ace1000ace1000 Posts: 151
    AWD and VSA overlap in what they do, but their primary functions are different. AWD is better at accelerating, which includes going up inclines. VSA is better at maintaining control when braking or steering, and will help with maintaining traction.

    Having both is best, but if I have to choose between them, VSA is the clear winner. AWD will help you not get stuck. VSA will save your life and the lives of those in the vehicle. The studies that have been done show this, and that is why so many car makers are rushing to put stability control on their vehicles, especially in Europe, and why our federal government is considering making it mandatory on at least all SUV's.
  • My Sienna AWD came with a jack and a lug wrench, even though there is no spare. Go figure. I assume Honda will do the same with Odys that are equipped with PAX.
  • ???? I don't know how it got posted 2x, as I certainly did not intend to repost. Also, I really meant to say that ANC and not VCM was a band-aid for lazy engineering. I managed to delete the second post btw...
  • fbearfbear Posts: 117
    2nd post happens when you refresh and your original post is somehow still in the buffer or something- if you get a message about the system needing to send info again to complete your refresh, you are about to double post.

    but to your point, I think ANC is made necessary by VCM- VCM is putting 3 cylinders in charge of pushing a 2+ ton vehicle down the road and even when coasting on the freeway those 3 cylinders must scream pretty loudly to get the job done. So VCM saves on gas but creates more noise. ANC defeats the extra noise so you get the gas savings without the noise. Do any Lexus or Toyotas have VCM?

    As an added benefit, the ANC will also help defeat other steady road noise which enters the cabin.

    It will be interesting to see just how successful this is when C&D does its official tests and also when we get to let our own ears check it out.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,778
    These would never sell. As it is, LX's are very slow sellers compared to the others.
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 14,930
    the engine will be turning the same RPMs with just 3 cylinders activated, so it won't be screaming down the road. The drivetrain will rotate the same as normal, only the 3 valves won't open, so no gas will be used.

    2013 Acura RDX (wife's) and 2007 Volvo S40 (mine)

  • If you don't know it already, the EX-L with have the 6 CD-changer if you ordered an NAV/RES. I thought only touring with nav has it. I emailed collegehills with the question and they answered promptly.
  • The Honda will come with a spare tire even with the PAX system installed.

    Khanh
  • fbearfbear Posts: 117
    stickguy,
    Do you know why there will be added noise (that needs to be canceled) when it goes to 3 cylinders?
  • dannodanno Posts: 114
    AN issue may arise with the low air pressure sensors that come with PAX. The computer in the car will be trying to communicate with the wheel air pressure sensors and when it does not find the sensors, the computer will give you an error message. I don't know if it can be turned off, or how instrusive the error message will be in case of aftermarket wheels being installed. Maybe extra sensors can be purchased for the steel wheels?
    I hope Honda has planned for this scenario.
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    I don't think the low pressure system actually measures the air pressure in each tire via remote sensors. Using the ABS sensors it can monitor wheel rotational speeds. A tire with low air pressure will turn SLIGHTLY faster in relation to the other tires. Ergo, that tire is low on pressure (at least, relative to the other tires). A similar system is used on the Sienna.
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    From what I understand, ALL EX-L models have the 6-CD changer as standard equipment.
This discussion has been closed.