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Hybrid vs Diesel

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Comments

  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,697
    ..."Not the SMART ones. The SMART ones like me will trade up to a newer, better hybrid (maybe even a diesel hybrid sedan, if one comes to be) and leave the battery problems to the second or third owner or the junkyard owner.... :) ..."

     

    Actually you are making a prima facie case for spending closer to the (.46 per mile or ) 460,000 for a million miles traveled than I ever would!!!?? :)
  • That 46 cents per mile is only for the first 5 years. But you have to realize that the depreciation will stabilize and the car won't accrue financing charges, and there won't be more sales tax, etc. So the costs per mile after that period would be way less than half.

     

    To keep a car over 100,000 miles a diesel is going to be much less expensive than a hybrid. Think about how much electric stuff starts going out on an old car, and multipy that by about 10!
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Example: If I buy cars which are only 39 cents per mile, and I buy ten of them in 30 years, I'm STILL spending less than a driving ONE CAR that costs 46 cents per mile 30 years, am I not?

     

    39 cents x 99,000 miles x 10 = $386,100

     

    46 cents x 1,000,000 miles = $460,000
  • As I said, the diesel would not continue to cost $0.46 per mile. More like $0.20, and that's keeping it up to very high maintenance standards.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,697
    For planning purposes, it does make sense to keep a reserve. But that is true even for a "brand" new car!!!

     

    Since I have kept 2 vehicles app 250,000 miles each, I have a reasonable feel and experiences to go along with it. But what happens is a lot of those items give out as a matter of course, so really it is included as "regular" maintenance.

     

    The reason they would be included as "unscheduled" maintenance in a hybrid for example would be the "shorter" time horizon, and rightly so.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    It would be great if Edmunds would go beyond five years, but if they do not, then anything we "guess" is just a "guess."
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 27,613
    Yes.. but ONE car won't cost 46 cents/mile over 1,000,000 miles.. After 150K miles, no more depreciation... No more finance charges... Property taxes are minimal, no collision insurance, etc., etc, etc..

     

    If you HAVE to buy a new car every 100K miles, then that does pretty much prove that hybrids will cost much more in the long run..

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  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    quote-"If you HAVE to buy a new car every 100K miles, then that does pretty much prove that hybrids will cost much more in the long run."-end quote

     

    Actually, that proves nothing at all. There ARE the adventurous types who want to keep a hybrid car for 500K miles, and more power to them. I'm not one of them.

     

    I'll take my 39 cents per mile cost over 60K-90K miles and be happy I'm driving new technology every 3-4 years.... :)

     

    I'm still on the lookout for that diesel/electric 4 door hybrid sedan which gets 60-70 MPG and costs less than $30K......
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,697
    ..."I'll take my 39 cents per mile cost over 60K-90K miles and be happy I'm driving new technology every 3-4 years.... :) "...

     

    Well I stand corrected then! Your figures indicate 12-17 cars over a 1,000,000 miles and at 20,000 that is 240,000- 340,000 in acquisition costs!

     

    Yes yes! 240k-340k is less than 18k! :)
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    I have "owned" about 15 cars in my lifetime, and only two of them have reached "paid in full" status.

     

    I wouldn't know what "not having a car payment" would feel like !!! :)
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,845
    I'll take my 39 cents per mile cost over 60K-90K miles and be happy I'm driving new technology every 3-4 years.... :)

     

    That kind of logic is the reason that Toyota & Honda are getting rich on their throwaway cars. If we demanded that cars last at least 15 years and refused to buy cheap junk our junk yards and landfills would not be overflowing. We would be financially better off as a country.

     

    The interest alone would be a huge savings. Buying a car on time is a losing decision. When interest was a write-off it could be marginally justified. It no longer has any advantage unless the interest rate is less than 1%. Drive your car another five years and save that additional cash. You will find yourself less likely wanting to spend the cash in your bank account for a new car. Trust me I know. Then when you drive it another 5 years and have enough saved to buy a new home cash you will thank me. We are so programmed to buy, buy, buy that it seems smart. It is anything but smart.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Gary, what is the logic/reasoning/justification of how you all of a sudden rate Hybrids as "throw away" cars?

     

    How many times do I need to point out that the percentage of people who keep cars past 100K miles is MINISCULE in the big picture?

     

    All cars of ANY TYPE will be driven by SOMEONE until they cannot be repaired. Nothing about a Hybrid car makes it more or less likely to be driven for a shorter period than a comparable gas or diesel car!!!
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    You’re worried about decency. I questioned consistency. It would help for a discussion to have a baseline. Are you up for it? Then we will discuss it all. I don't want to see a change in tone at some point, just trying to avoid it.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,697
    Here, Here! I would agree!!

     

    My other sense of it is with a 15 year average fleet age (vs 8-8.5 year currently, you can cut your junk or salvage rate in half or to 4% per year!!
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,697
    Yes you do consistently misrepresent what is said. That I think IS your baseline.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,845
    Nothing about a Hybrid car makes it more or less likely to be driven for a shorter period than a comparable gas or diesel car!!!

     

    That is total speculation on your part. We know how long many makes and models of ICE cars last. We do not have a history of hybrids. You cannot judge by hybrids sold in Japan. The Japanese are notorious low mileage drivers. Their cars rust away and the engines and transmissions only have 30k-40k miles on them. That is a huge business in the USA, buying low mileage engines from Japan.

     

    You are the one saying you keep a car 3-4 years and dump it. That to me is a throwaway of good value. You justify the pollution of manufacturing the car with the adage that someone else will buy it when you discard it. I disagree. Millions of cars sit in used car lots as their Life Cycle keeps on ticking. The only plus to your philosophy is the car is not polluting while it sits on the lot. As long as you refuse to accept the fact that the bulk of pollution in a car's life cycle and especially a hybrid is in the manufacturing process you will think you are being environmentally friendly. A person that uses his car for a million miles has done us all a much greater service than the person that buys 10 cars and drives them 100k miles and sells them. The only ones that benefit from the second scenario are the automakers as they laugh at our foolishness all the way to the bank.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    quote gagrice-"That to me is a throwaway of good value. You justify the pollution of manufacturing the car with the adage that someone else will buy it when you discard it. I disagree. Millions of cars sit in used car lots as their Life Cycle keeps on ticking."

     

    OF COURSE used cars sit in used car lots - but not forever !! They ALL get sold one day or another ! And most within 43-71 days !!

     

    No car sits "the rest of it's life" on a used car lot !!

     

    It is not my estimation or a guess that a car I trade in will get bought by someone else - it's a FACT !!!

     

    And yes, it's a given that people who drive a car a million miles (both of them) are doing a "great service" and making a "great sacrifice" for the rest of us. Unless that car is polluting it's rear end off for 1 million miles !!

     

    As I explained CLEARLY when we had this discussion a few weeks ago (deja vu to you too?) it makes not ONE IOTA of difference in the total amount of cars built on this earth whether YOU or I or BOB or JOHN drives his car 10K miles or 100K miles - Toyota/Honda/Ford are not going to cut or increase production either way...

     

    In fact, we can test that: let's both e-mail all the manufacturers from their websites and say, "Hey, I'm going to keep my car for a million miles, do you think for the sake of the environment that you can produce one or two less cars this year, to make up for me not buying another one for a few years?"

     

    I am trying to show how silly that idea is - did it work? :)
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,697
    It really goes to highlight how much ANY car truly does cost!! While it might not be everyones goal, I see it worthwhile to keep the per mile cost as low as possible!.

     

    One of the kickers that I did mention was it would become cost efficient to get a new car when the mpg is 138 !!! The problem with that is the governments at ALL levels would hardly let you get 138 mpg without SUBSTANTIALLY raising the COST per mile!!!
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    "That is total speculation on your part. We know how long many makes and models of ICE cars last. We do not have a history of hybrids. You cannot judge by hybrids sold in Japan."

     

    I also posted that Russian auction site last week that had Priuses from 1997-current with 154K, 147K, 132K, 127K etc mileages.....
This discussion has been closed.