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Hybrid vs Diesel

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Comments

  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,705
    This is my own personal bias, but I would be upset if my TDI advertized EPA ranges of 42/49 mpg routinely got what John 1701a got (47) or between 8-22% less than the advertised epa of 51 highway and 60 city. Since tests and Prius owners indicate 40-45 mpg, it is more like 22-33% less.

    Since I do get between 42-51, doing not much to nothing in the way of fuel conservation, :( I am cautiously thrilled.:( :) Just think if I really put on my fuel miser's cap!! ?? :)
  • zodiac2004zodiac2004 Posts: 471

    Thanks!

    You helped provide proof that the "cost per mile" analysis really doesn't have that much of a practical application when it comes to actual ownership.

    (Hint: Distance was a key component required to do those calculations.)

    JOHN


    Was that what you were trying to prove? If so, why? Because it's inconvenient to you when you try to advocate the case of hybrids over diesels.
  • john1701ajohn1701a Posts: 1,897
    > John1701a got (47)

    That was COLD weather only data!

    The EPA estimates all require WARM weather driving.

    And now that it is WARM, efficiency has close to 54 MPG.

    That is very clearly within the estimates.

    > Since tests and Prius owners indicate 40-45 mpg

    Once again, I am forced to point out the WRONG data is being quoted. Please stop using CLASSIC data to make the 2004 look bad!

    JOHN
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,705
    I am not sure what is "classic" data and the context in which you use "classic" data!

    Again 54 mpg would be great but one of the questions you assiduously avoid is how you drive and under what conditions. Speed etc.

    My TDI is easily capable of 54 mpg but please look at my post about not wearing the fuel miser's cap. It is even capable of 60 plus mpg with a 42/49 epa rating.

    "Once again, I am forced to point out the WRONG data is being quoted. Please stop using CLASSIC data to make the 2004 look bad!"

    Once again let me point out that Toyota "Prius" has nothing to fear from me! I would fear the "Toyota Prius" owners" who are contemplating class action lawsuits because of this so called difference in actual mpg vs EPA rated mpg! :(
  • john1701ajohn1701a Posts: 1,897
    > I am not sure what is "classic" data

    Haven't you noticed that the new Prius didn't exist before October of last year?

    That means absolutely no summer data is available yet, only stuff from the COLD months.

    You are quoting statistics from the older Prius, not the new one.

    JOHN
  • john1701ajohn1701a Posts: 1,897
    > Again 54 mpg would be great but one of the questions you assiduously avoid is how you drive and under what conditions. Speed etc.

    It is impossible to summarize 15,000 miles of driving without being vague. So stop asking a question that can't be easily answered. But if you absolutely keep insisting... My driving is "mixed", a wide variety of speeds & temperatures.

    JOHN
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,850
    You seem to want to put the classic in the closet like it never happened. The EPA estimates of mileage were the same as for the 2004 Prius. Maybe if Toyota was a legitimate Auto maker they would upgrade all those "Classic Prius" cars to the 2004 standards. Or should all the people that bought them shut up and live with their poor choice?
  • john1701ajohn1701a Posts: 1,897
    > The EPA estimates of mileage were the same as for the 2004 Prius.

    NO !!!!

    The 2003 Prius has a MPG rating of 52/45.

    The 2004 Prius has a MPG rating of 60/51.

    Geez! No wonder the replies are so absurd and non-constructive, it appears as though some didn't even realize there was a major upgrade to Prius.

    > Maybe if Toyota was a legitimate Auto maker they would upgrade all those "Classic Prius" cars to the 2004 standards.

    Why?

    That comment is mind-boggling, it's like saying the original Hummer should be upgraded to the new H2 Hummer. Hello, the body isn't even the same.

    Needless to say, all value in these discussions has been lost.

    JOHN
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,705
    "You are quoting statistics from the older Prius, not the new one."

    You are incorrect here!

    As I have noted and you know, the 2003 is different from the redesigned 2004 model.
  • john1701ajohn1701a Posts: 1,897
    > You are incorrect here!

    Then you are intentionally misleading people, because there is no summer data available yet.

    Comparing annual or lifetime averages to cold-weather-only is clearlly inappropriate. Winter values are always lower than summer.

    What is your TDI cold-weather-only MPG average?

    JOHN
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,850
    I was quoted by the Toyota dealer on the first Prius 2001 model, 60 mpg for city driving. I do not recall the highway estimate. The issue is the vehicle did not live up to the ratings. People were duped by over rated mileage estimates. The main reason for purchasing the car was to get good mileage. With the side issue of better emissions. I doubt that you would pay a premium for a vehicle that was 100% emission free if it had poor gas mileage. Why is it so hard to accept that the first of the hybrids were sold under false pretenses. That Toyota misled people about the mileage they would get with them.
  • pusterracingpusterracing Posts: 186
    "My repeated questions & requests are not being answered"

    Sounds like my repeated questions & request for real world cost of a Prius Hybrid. Not what it costs to fill one up with premium unleaded, what it costs to purchase one.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,705
  • djasonwdjasonw Posts: 624
    Unfortunately the EPA tests are ancient and really should be modified. Toyota has NOTHING to do with the outcome of the tests. Do you think they provided a SUPER DUPER battery to skew the results? When I saw the EPA numbers I knew RIGHT away there was NO way I would achieve them. I estimated months before I took delivery that I would get 48 or so average and I am NOW besting that number since the warm weather has arrived in the NE.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,850
    it's like saying the original Hummer should be upgraded to the new H2 Hummer

    You should stick to hybrids. No one with an original Hummer would even want a H2 Hummer. The original is twice the vehicle and more than twice the price. I think when the dust settles Toyota will be paying millions of dollars to Prius customers for false advertising.
  • djasonwdjasonw Posts: 624
    I used to have an Audi Allroad with twin turbos. I know turbos definitely have a finite life. Anyone with a TDI care to estimate how expensive it is to replace the turbo. Any idea on MTBF??? Is it also true that the 2004 TDI requires very expensive special oil? I actually think that the maintenance costs for the first 100,000 miles are MORE in a TDI than in the '04 Prius. This is MERE speculation. Anyone care to comment?
  • pusterracingpusterracing Posts: 186
    "Is it also true that the 2004 TDI requires very expensive special oil"

    Dunno, mine (oil changes on an 04 GLS TDI) are $45 at my dealer...and I only need one every 10K miles...so if you (gassers) pay $20 for an oil change and need one every 3K miles...who is coming out on top? You (gassers) need 3 changes (ie $60) for every 1 (ie $45) that I need.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,850
    EPA estimates may be faulty. But Toyota salesmen are telling customers they can get this wonderful mileage. I almost bought one in 2000 based on the salesman's figures and what was printed for the customers to make their buying decision on. The only thing as I have said in the past that stopped me from buying was my wife thought it was ugly and would not be seen in it. Personally I'm glad I wasn't the guinea pig. I would have been furious if I had realized after I bought it that I would be lucky to get 48 mpg or even less because my average drive is 2 or 3 miles to Home Depot, Costco or the grocery store. The salesman never said the mileage would be much lower unless you were commuting 19.3 miles each way or some such nonsense.
  • rfruthrfruth Posts: 630
    We need a list of amazing hybrid feats/myths such as :
     EPA ratings for the old and new Prius are the same

     hybrids use premium fuel

     the traction battery needs to be replaced every xx years and is toxic

     car dealers were saints till hybrids came along
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,850
    According to posts on this forum Toyota has sold the hybrid technology since 1997. They did not land on this shore until the middle of 2000. I would think that would be more than enough testing time to establish an accurate mileage estimate. When I bought my Suburban it stated on the window sticker 13 city 17 highway. Guess what that is what I get. Sometimes even a little better. I got no gripe with GM. If I buy a car that says 60 city 48 highway mpg. And I drive it only a few miles a day and over the course of several months I discover I am only getting 35-40 mpg(as many Prius owners are reporting) I am going to be upset. That is a pure case of false advertising. You can cover it up by saying the newer models are better or whatever you like. That does not change the facts in this whole debate. "CLASSIC PRIUS" owners were misled.....
This discussion has been closed.