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Jeep Liberty Diesel

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  • faroutfarout Posts: 1,609
    hanchamp: I thought for sure you would be all taken care of by now! Egad that's no laughing matter, you have great patients. We have 6,200 mile on the Compass and no issues. Ithink I have almost forgot the names of all the Tech's names as we did have a pretty close bond up and until we got the Compass.
    We are still getting ready to sell our 2006 Liberty with 16,000 miles on it. Our daughter really wanted it, but found 16 mpg was not in her real tight budget, so we got it back. It runs good rides ok, and I put the Goodyear Fortura tires on it, there are great tires and they are really high dollar. I just might put them on the Compass when it needs tires.
    Hope you get the papers soon.

    farout
  • arvmanarvman Posts: 95
    I reconnected the sensor and it did cancel the engine light after a few starts.after the oil change i'll unplug it again.i wonder if there is someway to get the right resistor in the circuit to keep the light off.i don't have a tech manual and the dealer service manuals are a well guarded item.do you know of any other sites with some tech info on this rig?i don't want to mod it in any way until the warranty is done,which is another 3 years but i want to be ready for that time with the info to get max potential from the vehicle,cheers...
  • Our 2005 CRD now has more than 30,000 miles and continues to run well. We consistently average 30+ mpg on the highway, at 70-75 mph. When you can go almost 600 miles on a tank of fuel, it is not smart to load up on Big Gulp soft drinks.

    On our most recent trip, I pulled out of a rest stop on Interstate 5 in Central California -- on a 102-degree afternoon -- and ran quickly up to highway speed, then backed off the accelerator abruptly. Then I noticed that the car would hold speed, but it would not accelerate, not at all. This was a bit unnerving, as we were approaching heavy traffic in Sacramento, CA. I drove until I could get off the highway easily, then parked, shut it down, opened the hood, and waited about five minutes for the motor to cool a bit. Then it was back onto the highway, without further drama.

    Funny thing is that our Jetta TDI did the same thing on the same highway last year. I was roaring up a steep hill in the fast lane, also on a warm day. Once again, I abruptly took my foot off the accelerator -- it may have been a scary Police moment, though I admit nothing. The car immediately lost power and as everyone passed me, it was like we were sliding back down the hill. We eventually reached the summit, rolled slowly into a town and by the time I'd found a Jetta mechanic the problem had cured itself. I guessed then that the turbo wastegate had stuck open briefly.

    The only moral to all this is that if you lose power like I did, it may be the same sort of self-healing temporary issue. It would be interesting if those more knowledgeable about diesels would weigh in with ideas regarding what happened both times. Wastegate, alien death ray, or ???

    By the way, I usually run B99 biodiesel. The cars both start fine and run fine, even when our Pacific Northwest weather turns chilly.
  • chester5chester5 Posts: 9
    Interesting to read about the mileage others are getting. I have yet to get 30 on a Canadian gallon. CRD is back in the shop again, another torque converter. I just wish they could fix it because I do like the thing.
  • caribou1caribou1 Posts: 1,350
    I know that in the past, turbo diesels that were pushed for long periods hauling trailers or boats on the highway suffered from oil leaks of the turbo bearing that could keep the engine going (for a short period of time). A colleague of mine destroyed the engine of his Cherokee Diesel (powered by Renault).
    With the common rail, if you are in this situation, the EGR's Airflow Control Valve will close the access to the inlet manifold when you turn off the engine. Oil leaks cannot get through and mix with air.
    If this is not the case, perhaps your pedal sensor was stuck due to excessive pressure ;)
  • Let me start by saying that I love Jeep but I am becoming very dissatisified with my 2005 Jeep Liberty CRD. Mine is a 2005 and I purchased it new off the floor. At 10,000 miles it was in the shop for 3 weeks to have the torque converter replaced. At 28,000 miles, it was in the shop for 5 days to have the EGR valve replaced. It has has the recalled items replaced as well. Well, my new adventure started as we were coming back from Texas. My Liberty CRD is a daily driver as well as a trip driver. We had gone out to Texas for vacation / wedding. AS we were coming back May 27th, I made a stop outside Tuscaloosa, Al at a truck stop so that my Dad could stretch his legs. Once we got back in to continue, we were only 50 miles from home, the Engine Malfunction light stayed on. So, I cut the Jeep off to check. Oil, fuel cap ( Which I had stopped outside Jackson, MS to fuel up ). Everything looked okay and the light was not flashing so we continued on to Birmingham. I called the shop ( Benchmard Chrysler - Jeep ) on Monday morning, Memorial Day, and the service department was closed. I went and purchased an air filter just on the off chance that the filter could be dirty and replaced it. Drove it around awhile but the malfunction light stayed on. I got up on Tuesday morning and drove the Liberty to Benchmark to let them check it. They had to keep it overnight. The next day they called and said it was the EGR valve. So we had a talk about the EGR valve being replaced at 28,000 miles ( my Liberty CRD now had 52,000 miles ). I told them to go ahead and replace it. It would take 3 days to get the valve in. Well, I called back the next week and they had put it in but that was not it. They said it was the catalic converter. It was covered by the 8/80 so they were going to replace it. It was replaced. That was not it. They then said it was the fuel filter. Filter replaced, that was not it. So, they told me they were at a loss as to what it was and had called in an engineer from Chrysler. I asked what did the codes say and they had wiped out the codes!!!! What the Liberty is doing is this - They will drive it to the top of the hill to the stop sign. Then it will not go. It is sluggish. Turn it off and wait a few minutes and crank it back up and it is fine....for another few miles and then the same thing. They had the engineer from Chrysler come out and he said to replace the EGR valve that it was a bad vavle. They replaced the valve but it did not change anything. So they said it was the powertrain control module. They ordered the PCM, put it on, and it no change. Now, they are having to get back with the engineer and try to figure it out. They have told me again that they have no idea what it is. It has been over 4 weeks!!!!!What are my options?????
  • goodcrdgoodcrd Posts: 253
    Ask them if they cleaned out the exhaust pipe suppling the EGR valve. I cleaned mine around 5,000 miles ago when I got a code for the low EGR flow. It was partially clogged. Common problem with Detriot series 50 engines equiped with EGR VNT turbo engines. I now have 50K+ miles on my 05 CRD. I would advise you after they clean the associated piping out to use only USLD fuel. And also use an oil that has the CJ4 cert. Amsol, Mobil 1 and shell have engine oils that fit the bill. Good luck and post what fixes your problem.
  • nescosmonescosmo Posts: 453
    Highlander.... I think that your problem is the air flow valve it get stock close some times. take the hose off and move the flap up and down to see if it move freely, if it does then put the hose back up and disconnect the maf sensor that is on the air filter take it for a ride ( the cell will come on) and see it it happen if it doesn't then the valve is bad, clean it with wd-40 (spray it in there) or replace it.
  • stlmvstlmv Posts: 1
    Hello- We have a problem with our rear brakes as well. Here is the TSB number covering said "problem". TSB 05-004-06
    Our dealer has done all the steps, but we still have the noise! Good luck
  • coolridercoolrider Posts: 84
    My libby CRD did that a few times (it hot in fla 10 mos a yr)with no cel, just out of the blue. My Jetta TDI and new Cherokee CRD have yet to have the problem or any for that matter! I hope all of these libby crd owners see the future with the vehicle issues. DC did not make that many to start with and I would not count on the issues being fixed. You can already see that it is cheaper to buy them back than to fix them. It should/could have been a great vehicle for us. I wonder if EU got the same engine in there CRD's? Jeep in AU has three engines (diesels) to choose from even in the Wrangler. Interesting our vechicle choice includes the TDI. This makes my fourth diesel.
  • coolridercoolrider Posts: 84
    LEMON LAW Its not that hard. Wrote two letters, filled out a form or two. The process can be done in a month. I kept wanting to keep mine until it left my spouse stranded twice in one week. I had my mind made up for me then for good cause. I do miss the libby though for its size and abilities.
  • caribou1caribou1 Posts: 1,350
    Coolrider, we share the same engine but have different driving habits. Those who expect fuel economy buy the TDI, many who pay a fortune for their vehicle drive like mad here: 80 mph bumper to bumper under pouring rain is quite common and makes me feel good to sit safely in my Jeep :)
    Driving long distances at 60 mph in top gear is not common practice in the EU and "leaves aside" the converter issue.
    Unsolved powertrain+injection+EGR issues are scarce or not addressed to the public. Most EU common rail engines pour ribbons of black smoke when around 75,000 miles: they need new EGR valves. Since diesel fuel price is rising continuously, the "diesel mania" may be coming to an end. :confuse:
  • I bought an '05 Jeep Liberty CRD with 78,000 miles back in April. I paid a fair price and immediately got the 22-26 mpg I expected. On the interstate, especially in hot weather I noticed the temp gauge was reading pretty high. A couple times the A/C shut off and the temp would drop back down. I read where the temp gauge might be reading high falsely and the gauge could be re-calibrated to fix it. I took it to my local Jeep dealer and they informed me the re-calibration had already been done.

    Next trip down the interstate, the gauge was doing its thing again and as soon as the speed limit allowed 75 mph, the gauge went nearly into the red. Other than the gauge reading high and the A/C stopping for a minute or two, the motor and transmission seemed to function fine. I did notice the tach would vary about 100-200 rpms, so I assumed the torque converter was having trouble staying locked. After about 45 minutes of 75 mph, the transmission appeared to let go. The motor was still running and as I pulled off the road, the motor idled roughly and stalled out. When I turned the key to start it, the starter sounded as though it was turning an engine with no compression. Obviously, it didn't start. I had it towed to a local dealership and they (we?) determined it was probably a broken timing belt. I figured the torque converter was toast also, but we couldn't make any determinations about the transmission until we got the motor running. The dealer quoted $850 to replace the timing belt and warned me that if the belt had broken at 75 mph, it probably would have bent a couple valves also. Of course that would cost another $2500 or so for the head work. At that point, I told them I'd seen a a low mileage replacement motor on eBay for around $3000, so it would be pointless for them to do any work. Interestingly enough, they did a preliminary diagnosis and determined the timing belt was indeed broken. My decision was to cut my losses and tow the Liberty home and work on it myself.

    I found the motor I wanted on eBay and made the appropriate deal. At this point, I'm still thinking I've got a blown torque converter, so I looked into getting a more bulletproof transmission solution too. The appropriate solution seemed to be a Suncoast converter (1200 stall speed) with a rebuild kit for the rest of the transmission. Suncoast recommended the heavy duty clutches (and shift kit too) since the stock transmission would not tolerate the new converter for long.

    Now I've spent close to $5000 in replacement parts and it's time to pull the motor and trans out of the Jeep. I disconnected the transmission and went to remove the torque converter bolts and guess what...turning the harmonic balancer isn't turning the flex plate. Even worse, I can turn the flex plate by hand through the starter hole. I'm not that smart, so at this point I figure the crankshaft is broken along with the timing belt. But, since I could turn the flex plate by hand, I got the converter bolts off and removed the transmission. Next I started to remove the engine (yesterday) and got underneath to attach a pull strap when I got many of the answers to my mystery. The flex plate was sheared off the crankshaft!

    Now when I finally pulled the engine, I checked the timing belt and of course it wasn't broken. Turns out the dealership had done the recall (F37) back in February and replaced the torque converter too. Then they sold the vehicle to me, I drove it 4,000 miles and I got the benefit of a fatigued piece of metal that costs $20.

    Now, I'm not angry or looking to blame anyone for this, I actually enjoy having a summer project like this. But I think it will make an interesting story as to how this new motor and transmission will work with the ECM/TCM settings
    the dealership has stuck in my Liberty's little brain.

    Anyone out there have any comments about this?
  • bullheadbullhead Posts: 125
    Caribou...

    Are not at all concerned about possible pre-detonation when egr is disabled this way? Please explain your faith in the ORM to not cause premature engine wear/failure. I ask- this because I'd love to have the nerve to maintain the ORM (tried it briefly), but don't want to do it w/o reasonable certainty of what I'm doing Thanks..
  • bullheadbullhead Posts: 125
    How about an aftermarket chip ?

    F37 is the Antichrist !!
  • goodcrdgoodcrd Posts: 253
    What you discribed is not uncommon with respect to shearing the bolts through the flex plate. I've seen this happen a few times with the larger diesels. A simple pulling of the injectors and doing a cylinder compression check would have verified your timing belt issue. When you tried to bar the engine over you would know if anything was binding. Good luck with the new engine and rebuilt trans. I'd sell the engine you just bought to cut my loses, but still rebuild the trans with the upgraded torque converter.
  • nescosmonescosmo Posts: 453
    Very strong engine, never trust a dealer -they are code readers only.- At 78K you should replace the belt and the tensioner. To replace the belt is easy, do not have to put the engine at tdc, just pull it and replaced. I think that if the belt brake there will be no damage to the engine. If the ECM and TCM give you problem take it to IN motion they will re program them at the right programing for only $280.00 ( for power or fuel saving). Good luck....

    Let us know the results. (hope that you have the cd to do all of this work)

    Nescosmo.
  • caribou1caribou1 Posts: 1,350
    Bullhead,
    I disconnected the vacuum actuator of my EGR valve almost 2 years ago and simply forgot about it!

    http://richard.fortin.free.fr/KJ_diesel/EGR_plug.jpg

    As you can see on this picture, my truck uses the solenoid valve located behind the air filter housing to pilot my EGR valve because I don't have the variable vanes on the turbo and my EGR sits on top of the exhaust manifold. Yours is fitted on the other side of the engine.

    When I took the truck to the dealership for a ball joint recall and to replace the front disk brakes, the mechanics checked the engine before taking the Jeep for a road test. They just told me they had less than 1% of customers like me and that I would surely enjoy the 300C station wagon. I didn't quite understand this statement because I used my truck to it's limits. Can the 300C CRD do more? I've never seen one working in the fields :confuse:

    nescosmo: on this picture you could already see the low level of the steering fluid I had to replenish recently. It must have been a factory defect!
  • randy_rayrandy_ray Posts: 9
    Had it in the Dodge dealer and they discovered the engine light was for a bad vacuum canister. After replacing that they found a new recall for the blower motor and took care of that too. Picked it up and all was fine until the next morning, light was on again. Took it back and it turned out there was too much dilectric grease in a connector (not sure which one) but they cleaned it and the light went away. Just took 1000 mile trip and the light came on one time half way through but not again since. So.. we'll see. Two major complaints about the Liberty, 1) the front end has a tough time staying aligned and according to the front-end tech at Dodge, the Liberty and 300 share the same weakness requiring alignment around every 5000 miles, 2) (for those with cloth seats) the seats get stained by RAIN!!! I complained to dealer and they had a professional detailer clean mine (after their failed attempt nearly ruined them). I came home and added Scotch Guard. So far they still look clean even after rain getting on them.
  • nescosmonescosmo Posts: 453
    Caribou1... I will love to see an area picture of your engine. Raining start to come down every day and i have been thinking to replaced the stock tires. The only tires that i can buy at Costco is BFG and Michelin, i was thinking for the Michelin LT-235-70r-16 but I will love to keep the 75r on the tires, so the BFG have one 225-75r-16 just like the stock tire. The Michelin cost $169.99 or so per tire (very expensive). What do you use. If i go for another brand, then i will have to go to another stores and sevice are no the same.

    Nescosmo.
  • caribou1caribou1 Posts: 1,350
    Nescosmo, I bought BFG AT 225x75x16 because I wanted to 'play with my toy' and these tires have a load index of 107-111 instead of 105 (imposed in the EU). I must admit these tires are perfect to climb over sharp rocks and to pull you out of a muddy soil. But they are noisy at low speed and very noisy on wet pavement. In mud they tend to fill their threads and I have to spin the wheels to clean them as I go :( :) Driving on ice may be tricky at the beginning, but it's safer and cheaper to reduce speed.

    When I pulled trees out of a piece of land, the side walls were severely worn but did not peel off. They have scars but no internal damage.

    The rim protection lip of the tire could be slightly more prominent. I had bark pinched between the rim and tire plus abrasion marks on the rims, but this is purely cosmetic ;)

    Last but not least: it took me more than a week to get a good grip with the BFG TA. I think the de moulding lubricant used by the manufacturer is the cause. Watch out on wet roads!
  • winter2winter2 Posts: 1,798
    Randy,

    I have over 22K miles on my Liberty and the front end alignment is still in good order. It has never been touched except for the ball joint recall last year. The dealer did check the alignment and found it perfect.

    The only two times the engine check light has appeared was at 682 miles and at 14K miles. The first took an update to fix and the second time required a new EGR valve.

    On another note, my wife and I travelled to New York and back or about 540 miles total. FE for the trip was 29.5 MPG (calculated). Not to shabby.
  • bullheadbullhead Posts: 125
    An actual 30+ mpg can be had with good tire inflation (my sweet spot unloaded is 38 psi front and 36 psi rear)and cruise control below 100 kph in 5th Lock gear over long distances. If much stop and go driving is done it's a difficult mpg average to keep.
  • twocycle2twocycle2 Posts: 55
    I was looking around at a dealership in Dallas last Sunday....they keep all the vehicles they are servicing parked in a side lot...there were a total of 4 liberty's in the lot. 3 of the 4 were diesels. 2 of the 3 had the "property of DC, do not touch" stickers on them...my assumption being that these were being bought back too. This was just an observation, and I'm not implying anything one way or the other. I wish I had been able to see the mileage of these vehicles. Either way, it appears that DC is willing to buy back on a case by case basis, as many on this forum have confirmed. As Farout has mentioned, I would advise having the dealer document each and every problem you have, even if it's minor stuff now, because that info could be very important if you have a major problem down the road. Like I said in a previous post, I traded mine in a few months ago on a Caravan because I simply don't have the time to deal with this type of stuff. I really do miss my CRD, as it was a blast to drive, but for me, the reliability factor outways the fun to drive factor.

    Twocycle2
  • faroutfarout Posts: 1,609
    Why are you runing with B-99? The makers of this four banger diesel have warned owners very agressively that they will not stand behind any engine parts that have had anything over B-5 used. I guess you must have losts of $ to playt with and are not too concerned about the damage being done. I rarely used B-5 and it was quieter, but the quality of bio fuel is very unrealiable, no matter who makes it. If you want the warning letter and it's web site let me know.

    farout
  • faroutfarout Posts: 1,609
    highlander1957: Having had our Green Beast CRD bought back in April I believe I can speak with some experience and wisdom. IF you had made a request befor 36,000 miles you would have qualifed for a buy back from DCX. At 50,000 miles you might ask for an extention to 100,000 miles from DCX or ask the dealer you got it from to help you get out of your CRD. DCX has been buying back a high number of the CRD's. One dealer I know of refuses to work on the CRD's and has had his dealership put on notice that he might have his Jeep line removed.
    Start with the dealer first and work your way up, but have in mind what you expect before you talk with anyone. Good luck.

    farout
  • faroutfarout Posts: 1,609
    coolrider: LEMON LAW is only good for 36,000 miles. With 50,000 miles he is at the mercy of the dealer or DCX's good will jesters or he id SOL. Perhaps because the CRD's have has somany bought back they might offer him a 100,000 mile extended warranty.
    My opinion is there are two major factors with the CRD. One is that the fuel we have here in the US is not equal to the EU fuel. The use of non-uniform quality od Bio fuel. Bio fuel is unregulated as to quality, and long term storage of the fuel is effected by heat, length of time in stroage, and quality of making it, and the fact the labling of B-5 and above is not very accurate. Anyone of these issues can severelydanage the parts and runing of these CRD's.

    farput
  • faroutfarout Posts: 1,609
    twocycle2: Hey nice to see you remember me. Yes when DCX buys them back they get that sticker on it. I have seen several CRD's for sale, and the ones I saw were at a real low price when compared to a 3.7 gas Liberty. DCX knew early into the 2006 CRD production there were a good number of CRD's that were likely to have major problems. Heck DCX called me and asked to consider a buy back! That says volumes that DCX does not need the bad rap. It also says to me they do care about the person buying a Chrysler product. We have found our Compass has more usable room, and the back seat can easy and comfortably fit 2 adults. The 2.4 engine is under powered when you punch it, but at speeds over 40mph the engine flat moves. At 7,200 miles no problems and getting 26 to 29 mpg, knock on wood.
    I believe DCX will attempt to help when they see there is a problem, but they made huge mistakes in the designing of the CRD for the US.

    farout
  • hamchamphamchamp Posts: 33
    Farout, Just to let you know we finally got the title and registration. We had the IGS deal on 4/27/07 and it took today, 07/07/07 to get the final paperwork. The dealership seemed to always have a 'reason' why the title and registration wasn't done. Each reason, when we checked it out, wasn't true. I finally made a request to the Better Business Bureau, it appears they are local, and the dealership didn't want a bad mark. The BBB made a phone call and the DMV work was done within 10 days. I think, and I don't know this to be true, that the big dealerships take the certificate of origin, and borrow on it for working capital from a bank. Then they have to pay the bank back. This is my thought, and nothing that I can prove. Anyway, we are happy with the New Dodge Dakota, and glad our Jeep in a Heep is out of the driveway. It got to be a living nightmare. This was 6 months of grief that I didn't need. Well good luck to those in the same boat. Again, CDX did treat as fairly. hamchamp
  • twocycle2twocycle2 Posts: 55
    I was looking at another dealership in the Dallas/Ft Worth area today and they had two CRD's on their used lot for sale that had stickers on them that said "vehicle reacquired through Texas Lemon Law"...it was a state of TX issued sticker.... If the manufacture has to buyback a vehicle and then resells it, does the original manuf warranty still apply? And/or when DCX sells these buybacks at auction, presumably they end up being resold to the public....are they required to disclose that the vehicle was a buyback and does the warranty still apply to these vehicles? Any info would be appreciated. I had never really thought about what happens to these buyback vehicles until I saw two for sale on a lot today.

    thx
    Twocycle2
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