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Jeep Liberty Diesel

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Comments

  • siberiasiberia Posts: 520
    Moparman2, I am beginning to admire those who can accept reality and have the courage to move on. :)
  • caribou1caribou1 Posts: 1,349
    Siberia, the higher resale value of a diesel was true 15 years ago when you drove at least 25,000 miles per year, or you had a taxi license. This was true for European conditions where cost of fuel and labor were sky high compared to yours.

    Early gasoline fuel injection that only had airflow metering made engines more reliable, and when ECUs showed up they were again more reliable!

    Add to this the vast improvement of lubricant filtration from the jig boring machine to the oil filter of the engine. We went from steel wool to electronic grade filtration. This costs in terms of health (smaller particles penetrate deeper in the lungs) but helps combustion and performance :sick:

    I think the technology of our CRD reached it's economical / viable asymptote.

    After 5 years what can I observe?
    - Reliability is directly related to procurement sources chosen by DC
    - Threatening of clients forcing undue repairs makes dealers live and DC is involved
    - Metal body elements are galvanized like on other "good" vehicles, not special to DC
    - Plastic fenders are completely loose due to poor quality assurance from DC
    - Transmission has loads of wear and play due to poor quality assurance from DC
    - Why were the grease inserts removed from all articulations? DC quality assurance was here...
    - What do I do when DC sends me the Jeep brochure? I have to drive 3 miles to bring it to the selective garbage collection. Return trip costs me ~5USD :sick:
  • siberiasiberia Posts: 520
    Caribou1, in the US most diesels still sell for a premium over their gasoline counterparts even with higher diesel fuel prices (especially VW TDIs). There is already a waiting line for new Jetta diesels coming out later this year.

    I purchased a plastic rivet gun and a sack full of plastic rivets to reattach plastic parts that are coming lose. In some cases it takes more than a new rivet to return to new fit. :sick:
  • faroutfarout Posts: 1,609
    moparman2: Did you ask for a buy back? If you bought it new and it was below 36,000 ,iles it just might have gone that way. Our "Green Beast" was an 05 and it was in the shop 25 times in 15 months. DCX bought it back and they were great.
    As we see diesel is $3.92 here and gas is $3.17 we are sooooo.....pleased we got rid of the CRD. We took a Jeep Compass 4x4 as a replacement. That was a huge pild of plastic, cheap engine, and CVT trans was junk! We traded it in on a Pacifica Touring AWD and we are so pleased wit it. We get a honest 24 to 26 mpg! The Compass got 22 mpg. We have bought 13 new Chrysler vehicles and only two were not up to snuff. I will stay with Chrysler. The Lifetime Powertrain and Life time Service Contract Warranty just might make the last vehicle i will need to buy. ( we hope)

    farout
  • faroutfarout Posts: 1,609
    lightnin3: The problem we have here is the US is that diesel refinery capacity is at max now and that's one reason the cost is up. High demand limited desiel production equals higher priced fuel. The market for diesels is there, bot until the fuel price comes down no no matter what the mpg is the public only sees the price per gallon. The GC Blue engine has not been agood seller, mainly because the vehicle is a high priced and few can afford the GC.
    As for smaller cars like the Caliber, if Chrysler did nottrain the tec's better that they did on the Liberty CRD then it would flop too. Add this to the fact that ethanol fuel puts mor polution into the air than just plain old gas, we have a real mess in the US.
    I do not understand how a Caliber with the weight of 3000 lbs+ and gets less than 28 mpg is better than a Neon that gets 33 mpg and was less weight has helped improve our fuel shortage. The MFG's of vehicles are still pushung more horse power, bigger bodies, heavier weight, and this seems to be in the wrong direction to me.

    farout
  • faroutfarout Posts: 1,609
    Caribou1: Greeting friend, farout here once again. Just a few observations. MOPAR has a 2.8 CRD that will fit into the Wranglers, and other Jeeps now. They have an EGR system, but not a turbo. I guess you have to get that in a different kit. I have no idea how much $ it is, but I'll bet it is no bargin.
    Am I hearing you right? Do you no longer like your CRD? It was hard for me to understand what you were saying.
    We still are enjoying the Chrysler Pacifica Touring AWD. We are getting 24 to 26 mpg, which is great as far as we are concerned. We go every where we went with the Jeep's and not near as rough a ride. The 2008 is the last of the Pacifica's! Dumb on Chryslers part, they never advertized for the PAC, much like the CRD's.
    Diesle here is $3.92 to $4.05 and gas is $3.17, I am sure your fuel is much more, I wish we could send you a tanker full for you.
    I do not know if you have heard how Chrysler is dropping about 12 to 14 cars here. I hope the Compass is one, the Nitro, PT Crusier, and the Sebring, ans the Durango, and aspen seem to be a few that ahve been mentioned in Motor Trend.
    I did see the new Dodge Journey. It has the cheap plastic interior, and crapy 2.4 L "World Engine" I was not impressed and feel if they want to sell a bunch they need to upgrade the insides or its just another old DCX leftover.
    Well I still keep on eye on this forum, so keep up the posts, always fine your posts interesting.

    farout
  • caribou1caribou1 Posts: 1,349
    Hi Farout, it's nice to read you again.
    I will keep this truck but I may change bits and pieces to simplify it further along the way...
    I enjoy the size, power, design and type of service it gives me, but I have the tendency to remove things that I don't really need.

    It's like old shoes: you wear them because you're used to them ;)

    Running this type of vehicle in the EU costs an arm and a leg. So people have to quit smoking and drinking to carry on which means they will live longer and ruin the pension funds. Perhaps we should drive expensive cars :surprise:

    Generally speaking I don't mind rattles and squeaks: I find them funny and disturbing for Chrysler, not for me! Today if I see people looking at second hand vehicles, I simply drive around the dealership with my rattling rig and potential buyers will think twice before they sign :shades:
    I had EXPORT"A" cigarette pack carboard rubbing against my bicycle wheels when I was a little younger :)
  • siberiasiberia Posts: 520
    Hi Farout, how ya doin. I just read yesterday that the US military uses 140 million bbls of oil each year, 40 million more than usual because of Iraq and Afg. Most of what the US uses is diesel and jet fuel. I also read that the US oil companies are exporting refined diesel fuel to Europe. Markets are mysterious, not really.

    The supply curve for oil is vertical and maybe shifting to the left. I was able to derive a demand curve for oil in the US using national data. The demand curve is nonlinear and prices are at the inelastic portion of the curve that is quite steep. The upshot is that when we bid up the price to get more oil there is no more oil to be supplied and we are just bidding against other bidders and the price goes straight up. If someone else wants it they have to outbid us. Yes, oil can move into and out of inventory but that is a very temporary solution. The good new is that if everyone could some how demand a little less oil over time the price coul drop as quickly as it has gone up. But what is the chance of that? :sick:

    The oil companies are caught between a pillow and a soft place.

    Generally speaking I don't mind rattles and squeaks: I find them funny and disturbing for Chrysler, not for me! Today if I see people looking at second hand vehicles, I simply drive around the dealership with my rattling rig and potential buyers will think twice before they sign
    I had EXPORT"A" cigarette pack carboard rubbing against my bicycle wheels when I was a little younger


    Caribou1, I still have not isolated the sympathetic rattle in my CRD. It is impossible to isolate the noise within the racket. So I'm gonna run her till she blows! I read the above portion of your post out loud to my wife and we both had a good loud laugh. :)
  • caribou1caribou1 Posts: 1,349
    Siberia, as long as you hear the rattle you're alive and OK :P

    We have a resonance that builds up in the exhaust system under 1,000 rpm when the engine is cold. We've spoken about the "smooth" running condition a few years ago and I noticed that acceleration is limited until the engine performs evenly (even angular acceleration), and this is when my engine is very noisy. But I always drive with the radio volume set to 20. I'm not getting deaf and the engine doesn't make more noise than when I got it new :blush:

    The same applies to my 'ancient' BFG T/As; they perform very well after 50,000 miles and they're not getting noisier. I just shift into 4WD more often when I see wet pavement ahead. I still have 1/4" left above the wear marks. These tires are simply remarkable. I don't know if they make them for bicycles :confuse:

    By the way, have you seen our first lady? Vive la France!
  • faroutfarout Posts: 1,609
    Siberia: Speaking of oil...$$$$$$....we get most of our imported oil from CANADA!!! Here is a real stupid thing, Alaska Pipe Line oil mainly goes to.......JAPAN!!!! The oil is managed by BP oil. Now are our politicans dumb or just plane trying to brakrupt the hole country so we can become citizens of China? We owe so much that China already ownes a numver of huge USA companies.
    I have been a voter that has voted on the Political parties planks. As a Protestant Christian, I have supported canidates who did not support abortion. When I see how George Bush has taken us into a pre-emptive war, which the USA HAS NEVER DONE BEFORE, and taken advantage of the National Gaurd, I am sick. Some Soldier's and Sailors, and Airman have served 5 tours!! This is unthinkable to treat our service persons and their families with shuch disregard, and abuse. The lies we have been told, like "weapons of mass destruction" were in Iraque. President Bush and his administration have abused their power, and taken the trust the country had for them and totally lied to us all. More than 4,000 US service persons have died for the reasons that have turned out to be lies. Never again does Congress have the right to assume what they are being told by a President it true. Everything MUST be proven true beyond any doubt. I am sure there has been some good, but we were deceived and the good is a biproduct of the wrong that has been done.
    The oil hit $117.00 yesterday. This is mainly due to the greed of speculators who are driving up oil futures to make more money at what ever cost it takes on the backs of our citizens, and the destruction of our economy.
    You got me going, and I chased a huge PIG, not a rabbit as they are not dangerious as a wild PIG.
    God help the USA and the World.

    farout
  • winter2winter2 Posts: 1,796
    While attempting to change the serpentine belt by myself (failed), I managed to drop a socket wrench down the driver's side of the engine toward the front of the engine bay. I am unable to locate the wrench by sight or by feel and it is not on the ground.

    I was able to remove the two bolts at the rear of the skid plate but could not find the attachment point(s) at the front. Any help would be appreciated, especially with pictures.

    Thanks,

    Winter2
  • caribou1caribou1 Posts: 1,349
    Winter,
    Try to flush it away with a large flow of water. If it doesn't move out of it's location leave it there. At least one of us will know where his rattle comes from ;)
  • caribou1caribou1 Posts: 1,349
    Hi Farout,
    What you discover today was thoroughly explained before the conflict began by this person:
    http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antoine_Sfeir

    The CRD was an "option" oriented towards energy independence. It was made too sophisticated to start and you were not given the chance to train service people before the vehicles were delivered.
  • winter2winter2 Posts: 1,796
    Caribou,

    Your idea is interesting, but I think the wrench is wedged in front of the differential. There is no rattle but I just do not want the wrench to get caught in the machinery.
  • Correct me if I am wrong, but I recall reading that the USA consumes 46% of the worlds oil supply, and produces only 6%. Thats why Canadian oil is so popular,
  • winter2winter2 Posts: 1,796
    The CRD was an "option" oriented towards energy independence. It was made too sophisticated to start and you were not given the chance to train service people before the vehicles were delivered.

    Farout, I must disagree with what you say here. The technicians at my dealership were well trained prior to the appearance of the CRD. Also, these same technicians have been trained to deal with the GC CRD and the Cummins diesels in the Dodge trucks. They spent a week in school for each application including hands on.

    The quality of the service you receive very much depends on how motivated the technician is to do the best job he or she can. Perhaps I have been fortunate to have such good technicians.
  • winter2winter2 Posts: 1,796
    Siberia,

    I get several consumer e-zines and one of them strongly suggested that getting a hybrid like the Prius was not a smart thing to do. Apparently they are not holding up as well as their maker would have us believe.
  • faroutfarout Posts: 1,609
    storageguy: I really don't know, other than it's close by? I have seen figures that conflict on several places. Maybe people use figures to twist things to their point of view? Personally I do not see the answer is for our energy problems as anything the US Congress is even close to working on. I do think the Electric vehicles are well worth putting more research into, that and Hydrogen.
    I do know that when oil hit $90. a barrel that the more costly way of putting steam down the wells became affordable to get the oil out of deep rock that's holding the hard to get thicker oil.
    With China expanding so rapidly they have become keen competition in the open market for oil, as well as Japan, and every other place that needs oil.

    farout
  • zachinmizachinmi Posts: 228
    Winter2 - you are very fortunate to have a good dealer. Maybe if I could have found one I would still have my CRD. We have our Ram/Cummins still and intend to for a very long time. (The Dodge dealer we bought it from is pretty good, but doesn't sell Jeeps so I have no reason to think they would have done a good job with, or even wanted to touch, my CRD.)

    Amusing story (at least to me) - I had the Ram into its Dodge dealer a few days ago for service. Noted a green Liberty CRD on the lot. This Dodge dealer is 1/2 mile away from where I traded in my CRD to a Chevy dealer last October. I took a look at it, up and down, and thought it was my old CRD. Had 43k miles vs. the 36k I traded at, but hey, maybe a salesman demo'd it. I had kept my CRD clean so there were few identifying marks, but there some small water stains on the front seats (if your Liberty has the cloth seats, you know what I mean) and I thought they were the same as the stains on my old CRD. I memorized the last 6 digits of the VIN to see if it was mine... got home and discovered it was nowhere close. Funny, given that it seemed identical down to cloth stains and everything.

    No price posted on the not-mine CRD, in fact nothing but a "balance of factory warranty (ha, ha) sticker on it. Wonder how much they want and how long it's been there. No, I'm not missing mine - just curious. I have done some driving cost calculations and with the current costs of diesel and gasoline, and the CRD maintenance requirements, my Suburban costs no more to drive than my old CRD, despite its size and lower mpg. I keep reading silly news articles saying diesel is the future, but if diesel continues to cost 80 cents/gallon more than 87octane, it's the future only for people who can't do math.
  • siberiasiberia Posts: 520
    Hi Winter2,

    The front bolts are recessed. You will need to go through the round holes at the front of the shield with a socket on and extension to reach the bolts. Your may have already noticed that the rear holes are slotted and open so that you can just loosen them, leave them in place and slide the shield forward when the front bolts are out. This helps putting it back on too. Mine has been off a few times for changing the front differential oil, looking for the rattle and once for something I dropped.

    I did not have a box end wrench long enough to reach the tensioner. So, I clamped one end of the longest box end wrench I have in a vice grip to make it longer. It actually works pretty good since the vice grip can be angled on the wrench to fit in a little better.
  • caribou1caribou1 Posts: 1,349
    Farout, we've seen several "scientific approaches" explaining that thicker oil extraction in Canada had a horrible impact on nature. The used water coming out of the wells is highly contaminated and too expensive to neutralize.

    We could push a bit more to recycle our waste cooking oil without creating conflicts but as of today the food chain is financially stressed worldwide. We had the same stressed situation between currencies before the Euro was introduced. Is it the same group of people creating this mess? Hands are rising and fingers are pointing to a common direction :surprise:

    As of China, they often use air-air heat pumps for heating apartments because it's cheaper than oil and most of their privately owned (small) vehicles run on gasoline. They have a "modular" diesel engine that can power small trucks, compressors, tractors, etc... This type of engine produces black smoke as if you would burn tires.
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,206
    We're having some good back and forth on oil over in the What will you do when gas price rises above $4 a gallon? discussion. Love to have y'all join us there.

    Moderator
    Need help navigating? stever@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • caribou1caribou1 Posts: 1,349
    Hi Steve,
    $4 a gallon, but for which currency? The "$" sign is used in several countries ;)

    On the way to work this morning I heard the barrel of crude oil is quoted 117USD. The "TOTAL" filling station prices are 1.51 Euros per liter of premium gasoline and 1.34 for the ULSD diesel. When you convert these prices you come to more than 10 USD per gallon for gasoline. British television reported that people need to lock their home heating oil tanks because of theft of fuel. Wasn't this part of the story in "Mad Max" movie?

    There are many people throughout the world who are paid from a different country than where they have to work and live. I call these the educated poor :cry:
    Unfortunately there are many North-Americans in this situation.

    I haven't yet found the way to increase mileage on the CRD. Driving at 50 or 75 mph makes no difference in my case. Perhaps the tuning chip will become my last resort. I tried different oil and air filters, different fuels, different tire pressures, different lubricants; in all combinations temperature is the main factor influencing mileage.
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,206
    And did you compensate for the Imperial gallon too? :shades:

    Moderator
    Need help navigating? stever@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,110
    I think you meant to use the lower case dollar sign! ;)
  • caribou1caribou1 Posts: 1,349
    Radio info today at noon:
    - there are 350,000,000 wealthy middle class individuals in China, in equivalent to US and EU standards.

    In which case of the d_0_llar or the eur_0 do you think we stand? We need brains, will and a vigorous industry to get out of this mess. Our interests are too related to the petrol industry. How do you explain we made a sophisticated and unreliable engine out of a rock solid technology?
  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,110
    In which case of the d_0_llar or the eur_0 do you think we stand?

    Frankly, I think the U.S. dollar is valued about right while the Euro is overvalued. But I don't think this is the most suitable place to get into debates on international monetary policy.

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • winter2winter2 Posts: 1,796
    As lucky as I have been, my CRD is in the shop to have an oil leak evaluated that is the rear seal on the trans or the front seal on the transfer case. I have been getting drops from time to time on the driveway.

    As to the cost of diesel versus gasoline, the price differential is closing here in MD where I live. Regular unleaded is running close to $3.60/gallon while diesel is still available for 3.999 in a few places. The price of gasoline is rising much faster than the price of diesel and I expect gasoline will be more expensive by the middle of this year, but I have been wrong before.

    Curious about the CRD you saw. My CRD has leather so water stains are a non-issue. When I ordered my CRD, I wanted the front passenger seat to be adjustable for my wife and the only way to do that was to get a leather interior. All that cost $1500, so in a sense I have put my wife on a pedestal.
  • winter2winter2 Posts: 1,796
    Siberia,

    Thanks for the info. The dealer is going to print instructions for me and their diesel tech is going to show me too.

    To change the belt, they have a special long wrench with some crazy curves in it that makes changing the belt a breeze. I just may buy one if the cost is not to outrageous.

    On another note, it looks like we will be heading for another ball joint recall and this time it will be the upper joints. There was an item on the local news radio station concerning collapsing front ends on 2002 and 2003 Libertys. They attribute this to ball joint failure.
  • caribou1caribou1 Posts: 1,349
    Tidester,
    The CRD we own is similar all over the world. The monetary policy has its effects:
    - You buy European technology at a lower cost than we do
    - We buy an "American vehicle" with a much higher price tag

    Put this in a blender and what do we have:
    - High prices for a standard technology in the EU
    - Decent prices and help from Heaven in the US

    When currencies match, you don't need Heaven anymore.
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