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Transmission problems with Lexus ES?

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Comments

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,883
    Probably if participants strove to avoid genuinely hyperbolic statements on either extreme (e.g. "the problem is imaginary" or "it's a death trap") then most people would sit on their hands and avoid personal comments.

    MODERATOR

  • jonpnjjonpnj Posts: 52
    I see this discussion is on the hot list. I have driven quite a few cars in my life. In a few of them, I have noticed what I consider a lag from initial acceleration. It can be annoying. It seems to be more pronounced in some cars than others. I am wondering if the transmission in the Lexus is the same as in its Camry sister. They are speed automatics, correct? I can't imagine the ES having its very own transmission when it shares so much of the Camry parts bin.
  • hylynerhylyner Posts: 216
    Isn't that the truth!! Your questions are perfectly OK,and completely valid. Because no answers are forthcoming by those making the statements leads to a belief they were made out of frustation as opposed based on fact. Frustration by those who claim they have the issue runs high, so you'll have to excuse them if some responses aren't always friendly.
    Some advice: Try not to respond to "suggestions" that you're not welcome here and should not be posting. It's happened to others, myself included, and you just have to roll with it. I sometimes wonder if those comments aren't intended to throw everything off track, but it stands to reason that anyone who considers this hesitation issue a big deal will be a little testy when they think someone is challenging them.
    Don't allow a little testiness to discourage you from posting here and asking some good questions. They should be asked, and it's OK to do so.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    Worth a try.........??

    For those of you having hesitation problems you might try applying a (VERY) light touch with your left foot to the brake in instances where you foresee the possibility of a quick return to "acceleration" mode.

    The 2004 RX330 Lexus shop manual indicates that the transaxle will drop out of O/D the instant the brakes are applied. So just maybe it might prevent the upshifting of the transaxle during brief periods of coastdown.

    The engine/transaxle ECU firmware appears to be sensing that the driver wishes to go into cruise mode when the gas pedal is released or slightly released (coastdown..) and therefore it quickly upshifts to attain the best fuel economy.

    If instead you "apply" the brakes the ECU firmware is more likely to assume your wish is NOT to enter cruise mode but to slow the vehicle. It might therefore leave you in the current gear or maybe even downshift.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    Proposal for an aftermarket device to fix hesitation problems in all Toyota/Lexus 5-speed transaxles.

    Constantly monitor the gas pedal position via the OEM hall effect sensors. If/when the gas pedal returns to the "neutral' position check to see which gear the transaxle is currently in and automatically change the "shifter" electrical gear control contacts (there is no mechanical connection) to "command" a one-level downshift.

    If the brakes are applied simultaneously with the gas pedal being returned to neutral then "command" a downshift all the way into first. The vehicle will not downshift until the appropriate lower speed is reached.

    In both cases while the transaxle may not actually downshift due to roadspeed being too high it certainly would not upshift and later leave you waiting 2 to 3 seconds for it to downshift back into the most appropriate gear ratio for the acceleration level dictated by the new gas pedal position.

    If these were RWD vehicles I wouldn't hesitate to bring such a product to market but with FWD we would be incurring the liability that arises from FIRM engine compression braking on the front wheels.
  • scoti1scoti1 Posts: 676
    re the NHTSA reports. We could argue this until the cows come home and everyone coming up with different answers. Another complication is that not all complaints are filed under the same component or are filed under several different components. I took the time to check individual complaints, eliminating the duplicates and eliminating the unintended acceleration, for the 2002 Lexus ES300 when this was first being discussed and found over 40 complaints under this one model for this one year. Didn't look at other years. Didn't look at the Camry, Avalon, Highlander, RX-300, etc. So I would say you are low-balling it, Shepali.

    Anyone reading this who has the problem, file the complaint if you are dissatisfied. I think it is important also for those who had the TSB performed and still have the problem to make a complaint (or file with NHTSA again) because if NHTSA closed their investigation, it likely had to do with Toyota announcing the new TSB shortly after NHTSA saying they would look into it. So they need to know that the TSB is not the "end all".
  • scoti1scoti1 Posts: 676
    Yep, you got it. The problem is not unique to the Lexus ES300, even though that is the title of this particular forum. There is another in its infancy, "Toyota-Lexus Transaxle Shift Delay" and the earlier (now closed/read only) "Engine Hesitation" forum, both set up to address the problem as it exists in all Toyota-Lexus models and, respectively, in all makes and models.
  • scoti1scoti1 Posts: 676
    I just did a recount and did find more duplicate VINs. So the ones with unique VINs are 30.
  • scoti1scoti1 Posts: 676
    1.
    Make : LEXUS Model : ES300 Year : 2002
    Manufacturer : TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC.
    Crash : No Fire : No Number of Injuries: 0
    ODI ID Number : 759781 Number of Deaths: 0
    Date of Failure:
    VIN : JTHBF30G525...
    Component: POWER TRAIN:AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION
    Summary: CAR WON'T GO INTO GEAR PROPERLY DURING STOP-AND-GO TRAFFIC OR PULL OUT INTO TRAFFIC WHILE TURNING A CORNER, RESULTING IN UNSAFE SITUATIONS AS NOTED BY OTHER CARS' HORNS HONKING AND BRAKES BEING APPLIED . DEALER SAYS IT PERFORMS AS DESIGNED BY FACTORY, AND THERE IS NO WAY TO FIX IT. *AK

    2
    Make : LEXUS Model : ES300 Year : 2002
    Manufacturer : TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC.
    Crash : No Fire : No Number of Injuries: 0
    ODI ID Number : 762166 Number of Deaths: 0
    Date of Failure:
    VIN : JTHBF30GX20...
    Component: ELECTRICAL SYSTEM:IGNITION
    Summary: THE CAR STALLS AND PAUSES IN TRAFFIC. THE CAR HAS ROUGH VIBRATION WHEN THE GEARS SHIFT. THE DEALER SAID THE COMPUTER WAS DESIGNED TO OPERATE IN THAT MANNER AND THAT THERE IS PRESENTLY NO CORRECTION FOR THE PROBLEM. THE DEALER ACKNOWLEDGED THE PROBLEM, BUT REFUSES TO REPLACE THE CAR OR TO BUY ME OUT BECAUSE THIS PROBLEM HAS NOT RESULTED IN ANY FATALITIES.

    3
    Make : LEXUS Model : ES300 Year : 2002
    Manufacturer : TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC.
    Crash : No Fire : No Number of Injuries: 0
    ODI ID Number : 762530 Number of Deaths: 0
    Date of Failure: January 1, 2002
    VIN : JTHBF30G025...
    Component: POWER TRAIN:AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION
    Summary: WE HAVE AN ESCALATING SHUDDER WHEN DOWN SHIFTING THE TRANSMISSION. THE DEALER ACKNOWLEDGED THAT THEY HAVE A PROBLEM WITH SOFTWARE BETWEEN THE ENGINE AND THE POWERTRAIN/TRANSMISSION. THEY DO NOT HAVE A FIX AND ARE ASKING CUSTOMERS TO DRIVE THE VEHICLE FOR ANOTHER POSSIBLE 45 TO 60 DAYS UNTIL THE FIX IS ISSUED. WE HAVE REQUESTED ANOTHER CAR SINCE THIS IS OUR 4TH ES400 IN THE PAST TEN YEARS AND THE 97 LEXUS WE TRADED WAS IN PERFECT CONDITION. WE ARE NOT WILLING TO WAIT FOR A REPAIR AND HAVE NOTIFIED THE COMPANY THAT THEY NEED TO RESOLVE OUR PROBLEM CAUSED BY THEIR DEFECTIVE PRODUCT WITH A NEW VEHICLE.*AK
    4
    Make : LEXUS Model : ES300 Year : 2002
    Manufacturer : TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC.
    Crash : No Fire : No Number of Injuries: 0
    ODI ID Number : 764271 Number of Deaths: 0
    Date of Failure:
    VIN : JTHBF30G425...
    Component: VEHICLE SPEED CONTROL
    Summary: WE HAVE A SURGE OR SKIP ON DEACCELERATION.THIS WILL HAPPEN FROM 40 TO 60 MPH. THE DEALER WILL ONLY TELL US THEY ARE AWARE OF THE PROBLEM BUT HAVE NO CURE. I FEEL THAT AFTER 7 MONTHS THEY SHOULD HAVE A FIX.*AK

    5
    Make : LEXUS Model : ES300 Year : 2002
    Manufacturer : TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC.
    Crash : No Fire : No Number of Injuries: 0
    ODI ID Number : 764487 Number of Deaths: 0
    Date of Failure:
    VIN : JTHBF30G725...
    Component: POWER TRAIN:AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION
    Summary: CAR HAS VERY POOR SHIFTING CHARACTERISTICS. IT IS ALWAYS ANNOYING AND SOMETIMES UNSAFE. TWICE I HAVE STARTED TO QUICKLY ACCELERATE FROM A STOP TO TURN LEFT AND HAD THE TRANSMISSION START TO DOWNSHIFT THEN WAIT THROUGH A DELAY AS IF THE SOFTWARE WAS CONFUSED. THE RESULT WAS THE CAR SITTING IN THE INTERSECTION WITH THE ACCELERATOR DEPRESSED BUT NO POWER TO THE WHEELS FOR AROUND 1 OR 2 SECONDS. DEALER ACKNOWLEDGES "SHIFTING COMFORT" ISSUES ARE THE NUMBER ONE COMPLAINT FOR THE CAR BUT SAYS NO FIX IS AVAILABLE. I HAVE BEEN IN DISCUSSIONS WITH THE SERVICE MANAGER ON THIS ISSUE FOR OVER 8 MONTHS AND HAVE HAD NO HELP.*AK

    6
    Make : LEXUS Model : ES300 Year : 2002
    Manufacturer : TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC.
    Crash : No Fire : No Number of Injuries: 0
    ODI ID Number : 769597 Number of Deaths: 0
    Date of Failure:
    VIN : JTHBF30G120...
    Component: POWER TRAIN:AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION
    Summary: SHIFT COMFORT ISSUE EXISTS AT SOMEWHAT PREDICTABLE DRIVING CONDITIONS THAT CAUSE THE DRIVER TO HANDLE THE CAR IN A CAUTIOUS MANNER TO AVOID VEHICLE MALFUNCTION. DT


    7
    Make : LEXUS Model : ES300 Year : 2002
    Manufacturer : TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC.
    Crash : No Fire : No Number of Injuries: 0
    ODI ID Number : 8018169 Number of Deaths: 0
    Date of Failure: August 25, 2002
    VIN : JTHBF30G920...
    Component: POWER TRAIN:AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION
    Summary: WHILE DRIVING AT 20MPH AND WITH NO WARNING MAKING A TURN AND VEHICLE WILL STALL. IT WILL BE HARD FOR CONSUMER TO CONTROL VEHICLE. DEALER NOTIFIED.*AK

    8
    Make : LEXUS Model : ES300 Year : 2002
    Manufacturer : TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC.
    Crash : No Fire : No Number of Injuries: 0
    ODI ID Number : 10000029 Number of Deaths: 0
    Date of Failure: December 10, 2002
    VIN : JTHBF30G520...
    Component: POWER TRAIN
    Summary: TRANSMISSION GETS CONFUSED WHEN SHIFTING INTO AND OUT OF THE LOWER GEARS, THEN SPENDS TOO LONG TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT GEAR TO BE IN. THIS CAUSES DANGEROUS DELAYS IN ACCELERATION, THE EFFECT IS THE SAME AS A MOMENTARY ENGINE STALL. WE HAVE HAD THIS HAPPEN ON SEVERAL OCCASIONS, FREEWAY RAMP ENTRANCES ARE CERTAINLY THE MOST DANGEROUS PLACE THAT THIS HAS OCCURRED. DEALER ACKNOWLEDGES THAT THERE HAVE BEEN COMPLAINTS ABOUT THE SHIFTING DELAYS BUT THEY SAY NO FIX IS AVAILABLE. THIS IS OUR THIRD ES300, THE PREVIOUS MODELS USED A CABLE BETWEEN THE GAS PEDAL AND THE THROTTLE, THIS NEW ONE USES WHAT IS CALLED "FLY BY WIRE", A POSITION SENSOR ON THE ACCELARATOR THAT A COMPUTER IS SUPPOSED TO USE TO FIGURE OUT WHAT TO TELL THE ENGINE AND TRANSMISSION. IT ISN'T WORKING VERY WELL. IF NOT RECTIFIED THIS PROBLEM WILL CERTAINLY LEAD TO A CRASH SOMEDAY, THEN WE'LL GET TO SEE HOW GOOD THE SAFETY EQUIPMENT IS.

    9
    Make : LEXUS Model : ES300 Year : 2002
    Manufacturer : TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC.
    Crash : No Fire : No Number of Injuries: 0
    ODI ID Number : 10001095 Number of Deaths: 0
    Date of Failure: February 15, 2002
    VIN : KPHBF30G325...
    Component: VEHICLE SPEED CONTROL
    Summary: WHILE DRIVING THE VEHICLE AT ANY SPEED, THE ENGINE SUFFERED SUDDEN ACCELERATION. THE DEALER COULD NOT DUPLICATE OR CORRECT THE PROBLEM. TS WHEN ACCELERATING TO CHANGE LANE OR ENTER THE FREEWAY, THE VEHICLE ALMOST STALLED AND OR DECELERATED. SCC

    10
    Make : LEXUS Model : ES300 Year : 2002
    Manufacturer : TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC.
    Crash : No Fire : No Number of Injuries: 0
    ODI ID Number : 10004854 Number of Deaths: 0
    Date of Failure: January 8, 2003
    VIN : JTHBF30G625...
    Component: POWER TRAIN:AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION
    Summary: THE TRANSMISSION HAD A JERK IN THE TRANSMISSION, THE DEALER TOLD THE CONSUMER IT WAS THE DESIGN THE OF THE VEHICLE. *TS *JB
  • scoti1scoti1 Posts: 676
    11
    Make : LEXUS Model : ES300 Year : 2002
    Manufacturer : TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC.
    Crash : No Fire : No Number of Injuries: 0
    ODI ID Number : 10012059 Number of Deaths: 0
    Date of Failure:
    VIN : Not Available
    Component: OTHER
    Summary: THE VEHICLE INTERMITTENTLY EXPERIENCED A HESITATION WHEN ACCELERATING, THE DEALERSHIP WAS UNABLE TO DUPLICATE THE PROBLEM. *JB

    12
    Make : LEXUS Model : ES300 Year : 2002
    Manufacturer : TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC.
    Crash : No Fire : No Number of Injuries: 0
    ODI ID Number : 10016697 Number of Deaths: 0
    Date of Failure: October 30, 2001
    VIN : Not Available
    Component: POWER TRAIN:AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION
    Summary: 1) STUMBLE - THIS OCCURS WHEN YOU QUICKLY ACCELERATE AND THE CAR HESITATES FOR 1-2 SECONDS BEFORE IT KICKS IN. 2) SHUDDER - WITH NO PATTERN, THE CAR WILL SUDDENLY SHUDDER. THIS OCCURS WITH NO/LITTLE ACCELERATION. 3) SURGING - THE CAR SURGES APPROX. 1/2 FOOT WHEN THE AIR CONDITIONER IS ON. I HAVE NOTICED THAT THIS PROBLEM IS INTENSIFIED WHEN THE CAR IS SLOWLY (E.G., IN TRAFFIC) MOVING DOWN HILL. *JB

    13
    Make : LEXUS Model : ES300 Year : 2002
    Manufacturer : TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC.
    Crash : No Fire : No Number of Injuries: 0
    ODI ID Number : 10016699 Number of Deaths: 0
    Date of Failure: May 1, 2002
    VIN : Not Available
    Component: POWER TRAIN:AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION
    Summary: 1. SHUDDERING TRANSMISSION IN STOP/GO TRAFFIC. 2. WHEN AT A COMPLETE STOP, CAR NUDGES FORWARD EVEN WHEN BRAKES ARE FULLY DEPRESSED. NOTIFIED DEALER AS WELL AS LEXUS CORP AND WAS TOLD NO FIX IS AVAILABLE AT THIS TIME. *JB

    14
    Make : LEXUS Model : ES300 Year : 2002
    Manufacturer : TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC.
    Crash : No Fire : No Number of Injuries: 0
    ODI ID Number : 10018429 Number of Deaths: 0
    Date of Failure: May 1, 2002
    VIN : JTHBF30G925...
    Component: POWER TRAIN:AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION
    Summary: I HAVE EXPERIENCED SIGNIFICANT DELAY IN DOWNSHIFTING WHEN ATTEMPTING TO MERGE WITH TRAFFIC IN MY 2002 LEXUS ES300. FOLLOWING THE DELAY, THE TRANSMISSION SHIFTS TO THE TOP OF THE RPM RANGE EFFECTIVELY RESULTING IN NO ACCELERATION, THEN IT UP SHIFTS TO AN APPROPRIATE GEAR. THIS IS A DANGEROUS CONDITION. I HAVE HAD SEVERAL NEAR MISSES FROM BEING REAR ENDED AS A RESULT. THE DEALER HAS DUPLICATED THIS PROBLEM ON OTHER 2002'S AND LEXUS IN CALIFORNIA ADMITS THERE IS A PROBLEM BUT HAS NO FIX. I HAVE BEEN TOLD FOR ALMOST A YEAR NOW THAT A FIX IS COMING BUT STILL NO FIX. I HOPE SOMEONE DOES NOT GET KILLED FROM THIS DEFECT BEFORE IT GETS FIXED! PLEASE DO SOMETHING. *NLM
    15
    Make : LEXUS Model : ES300 Year : 2002
    Manufacturer : TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC.
    Crash : No Fire : No Number of Injuries: 0
    ODI ID Number : 10023430 Number of Deaths: 0
    Date of Failure: December 1, 2002
    VIN : Not Available
    Component: POWER TRAIN:AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION
    Summary: THE 2002 LEXUS ES300 HAS A SIGNIFICANT FLAW IN THE NEW ELECTRONICALLY CONTROLLED TRANSMISSION SYSTEM. THIS FLAW HAS BEEN RECOGNIZED BY MULTIPLE DEALERSHIPS AND BY LEXUS CUSTOMER SERVICE. I HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR A RESOLUTION TO THIS PROBLEM SINCE DECEMBER 2002 WHICH IS SHORTLY AFTER I PURCHASED THE VEHICLE. THERE ARE THREE VERY OBVIOUS SYMPTOMS THAT HAVE BEEN OCCURRING EVER SINCE I PURCHASED THE VEHICLE. DEPENDING UPON FUEL AND DRIVING CONDITIONS, THE CAR WILL DEVELOP A NECK JERKING SHUTTER AS IT VIOLENTLY SHIFTS BETWEEN GEARS. THIS USUALLY OCCURS ANYWHERE BETWEEN 40 AND 50 MPH, BUT MOST OFTEN WHEN YOU ARE TRYING TO MAINTAIN A CONSTANT SPEED. THE SECOND CONDITION OCCURS WHEN YOU GO FROM A SLOWING SITUATION INTO AN ACCELERATION SITUATION. DURING THIS TIME, THE CAR OFTEN GOES INTO A NEUTRAL CONDITION AND TAKES A COUPLE SECONDS BEFORE POWER IS RETURNED TO THE WHEELS. THIS CONDITION IS VERY DANGEROUS WHEN MOVING INTO TRAFFIC OR TURNING A CORNER. WHEN TURNING, YOU WILL NEARLY COAST AROUND THE CORNER UNTIL THE POWER IS RETURNED TO THE WHEELS. WHEN THE POWER IS RETURNED, IT IS VERY ABRUPT AND LUNGES THE CAR FORWARD. THE THIRD CONDITION OCCURS DURING FULL THROTTLE ACCELERATION. THIS IS MOST EVIDENT WHEN ACCELERATING ONTO A HIGHWAY. THE CAR SEEMS TO SHIFT INTO A VERY LOW GEAR WHERE RPM IS NEARLY RED-LINE AND POWER IS ALMOST NON-EXISTENT. THE CAR THEN JERKS INTO A DIFFERENT GEAR WHERE YOU MAY GET MORE POWER, BUT IT DOESN'T USUALLY STAY IN THAT GEAR EITHER. IT THEN SHIFTS BACK TO THE LOW GEAR, RED-LINES AGAIN AND REPEATS THE PROCESS. THIS WILL OFTEN OCCUR 2 OR 3 TIMES BEFORE A GOOD GEAR IS FOUND AND YOU CAN THEN PROCEED WITH NORMAL DRIVING. AT THIS POINT, LEXUS DID MAKE A COUPLE LEASE PAYMENTS FOR ME IN EXCHANGE FOR WAITING A FEW MORE MONTHS FOR THE FIX. UNFORTUNATELY, THAT WAS NEARLY A YEAR AGO AND I'M STILL WAITING. WE NEED TO GET THIS FIXED BEFORE SOMEONE GETS INJURED, NOT AFTER! *NLM
    16
    Make : LEXUS Model : ES300 Year : 2002
    Manufacturer : TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC.
    Crash : No Fire : No Number of Injuries: 0
    ODI ID Number : 10037515 Number of Deaths: 0
    Date of Failure: September 8, 2003
    VIN : JTHBF30G720...
    Component: POWER TRAIN:AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION:CONTROL MODULE (TCM, PCM)
    Summary: DANGEROUS CONDITION EXISTS WITH 2002 LEXUS ES300, WHERE A SEVERE HESITATION EXISTS WHEN ACCELERATING AT SLOW ROLL (< 5MPH) AT INTERSECTION TURNS, EXITING DRIVEWAYS, AND GENERALLY ANYWHERE WHEN TRYING TO GET INTO FLOW OF TRAFFIC WHEN NEARLY STOPPED - ESPECIALLY WHEN A TURN IS INVOLVED ALONG WITH THE ACCELERATION. VERY DANGEROUS CONDITION EXISTS WHEN TRYING TO ENTER LANE, OR MAKE A TURN, IN FRONT OF FAST-MOVING TRAFFIC. IT SEEMS THE CAR'S ELECTRONICS DOES NOT REGOGNIZE THE ACCELERATOR'S REQUEST FOR FUEL UNDER THOSE CONDITIONS. A PRIOR LEXUS TSB ADDRESSED TRANSMISSION SHIFTING AT HIGHER SPEEDS, BUT SEEMS TO HAVE CREATED A NEW, AND POTENTIALLY MORE DANGEROUS CONDITION.*AK
  • scoti1scoti1 Posts: 676
    17
    Make : LEXUS Model : ES300 Year : 2002
    Manufacturer : TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC.
    Crash : No Fire : No Number of Injuries: 0
    ODI ID Number : 10037542 Number of Deaths: 0
    Date of Failure: September 7, 2003
    VIN : JTHBF30G820...
    Component: VEHICLE SPEED CONTROL
    Summary: I WAS DRIVING AT ABOUT 35 MPH ON HIGHWAY. WHEN THE TRAFFIC SLOWED DOWN, I APPLIED THE BRAKE TO BRING DOWN THE SPEED OF THE CAR TO ABOUT 3-7 MPH. AFTER FOLLOWING THE CAR IN FRONT OF ME FOR ABOUT 5 SECONDS AT ABOUT 3/4 CAR DISTANCE, I SAW THE CAR IN FRONT OF ME SPEEDED UP SLOWLY AND I DECIDED TO FOLLOW UP BY PRESSING THE ACCELERATOR MODERATLY. THE CAR FIRST SHUDDERED, THEN PAUSED FOR ABOUT 1 SECOND, AND FINALLY ACCELERATED AT ALMOST MAXIMUM POWER. THIS WAS A NEAR MISS. BEFORE THIS HAPPENED, I BROUGHT OUR CAR TO LEXUS DEALER TO COMPLAIN ABOUT SHUDDERING/PAUSING WHEN ACCELERATING FROM LOW SPEED AFTER THE CAR WAS UPDATED WITH TSB-TC004-03; THE CHIEF TECHNICIAN DROVE THE CAR AND REPRODUCED THE KIND OF PROBLEMS THAT WE HAD. HOWEVER, HE SAID THAT HE COULD NOT DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT AND WAS GOING TO WRITE A REPORT TO TOYOTA CORP BECAUSE IT WAS A SOFTWARE PROBLEM. ON THE OTHER HAND, THE RECEIPT FROM THE DEALER SAID THAT THEY DID NOT FIND ANY ABNORMAL TRANSMISSION SHIFT DURING TEST DRIVING, BUT WOULD FILE A REPORT. WHAT A CONTRADICATION! THE DANGER OF THIS TRANSMISSION PROBLEM WAS FURTHER MAGNIFIED BY THE FACT THAT 2002 ES300 RUNS VERY SMOOTHLY AT MOST TIMES (>98%). THIS SHUDDER/PAUSE/ACCELERATION OR PAUSE/ACCELERATION THAT ONLY OCCURS SPORADICALLY UNDER VERY SPECIAL CONDITIONS GIVES DRIVERS SURPRISE THAT IS THE LAST THING THEY WANT DURING DRIVING. FOR CURIOSITY, I TESTED DRIVING THE CAR FOR ABOUT 50 MINIUTES BY REPEATLY SLOWING DOWN TO ABOUT 5 - 10 MPH BY APPLYING BRAKE, THEN ALLOWING THE CAR TO ROLL FOR ABOUT 3 SECONDS WITHOUT PRESSING GAS PADDLE, AND THEN ACCELERATING MODERATELY TO ABOUT 20 - 30 MPH. THE PROBOBILITY FOR THE SHUDDER/PAUSE/ACCELERATION IS ABOUT 5%, WHILE THAT FOR PAUSE/ACCELERATION ABOUT 15%. IT SEEMED THAT THIS PROBLEM HAPPENDED MORE OFTEN ON DOWN/UP HILL.. *AK

    18
    Make : LEXUS Model : ES300 Year : 2002
    Manufacturer : TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC.
    Crash : No Fire : No Number of Injuries: 0
    ODI ID Number : 10061924 Number of Deaths: 0
    Date of Failure: March 1, 2003
    VIN : Not Available
    Component: VEHICLE SPEED CONTROL:ACCELERATOR PEDAL
    Summary: I PUCHASED A 2002 LEXUS 300 FROM WESTSIDE LEXUS IN HOUSTON, TEXAS. SINCE PURCHASE THE VEHICLE HAS SURGED WHEN SHIFTING AT LOWER SPEEDS NUMEROUS TIMES AND HAS SURGED WHEN THE VECHILE IS ON CRUISE CONTROL. I HAVE COMPLAINED NUMEROUS TIMES TO WESTSIDE LEXUS ABOUT THE PROBLEM BUT THEY AWAYS SAY THAT LEXUS IS AWARE OF THE PROBLEM AND IS TRYING TO COME UP WITH A FIX. LAST YEAR THEY ADJUSTED THE ENGINE CONTROL MODULE (ECM) CALIBRATION AND LEXUS SAID THE CAR SHOULD DRIVE BETTER - IT DID AT FIRST BUT IS NOW BACK TO THE SAME OLD SURGING AT SLOW SHIFTING SPEEDS. I BELIEVE LEXUS INTRODUCED THE ES330 MODEL THIS YEAR TO AVOID A PROBLEM WITH THE ES300 THEY COULD NOT FIX. I AM DRIVIG AN UNSAFE VEHICLE THAT LEXUS MAKES NO EFFORT TO FIX EXCEPT HAVE THE SERVICE TECH. GIVE LAME EXCUSES. I THOUGHT I WAS PURCHASING AN UPSCALE CAR TO DRIVE INSTEAD IT HAS TURNED OUT TO BE A MISERABLE UNSAFE EXPERIENCE. PLEASE MAKE LEXUS FIX THE DEFECT OR MAKE THEM REFUND ME MY PURCHASE PRICE. THANK YOU.*AK
  • scoti1scoti1 Posts: 676
    20
    Make : LEXUS Model : ES300 Year : 2002
    Manufacturer : TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC.
    Crash : No Fire : No Number of Injuries: 0
    ODI ID Number : 10075325 Number of Deaths: 0
    Date of Failure: August 1, 2002
    VIN : JTHBF30G220...
    Component: POWER TRAIN:AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION
    Summary: 2003 LEXUS HESITATES ON ACCELERATION WHEN SLOWING ( E.G., MAKING A TURN) AND THEN PROCEEDING TO FULL SPEED. THE MANUFACTURER WAS AWARE OF THE PROBLEM IN PRESS REVIEWS ON RELEASE OF THE CAR, AND TOOK 2 YEARS TO PROVIDE A SOFTWARE PATCH THAT WAS ALLEGED TO HAVE CORRECTED THE PROBLEM. THE PATCH DOES NOT WORK, AND THE CONDITION IS A SAFETY PROBLEM.*AK


    21
    Make : LEXUS Model : ES300 Year : 2002
    Manufacturer : TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC.
    Crash : No Fire : No Number of Injuries: 0
    ODI ID Number : 10088532 Number of Deaths: 0
    Date of Failure: May 15, 2004
    VIN : JTHBF30G125...
    Component: VEHICLE SPEED CONTROL:ACCELERATOR PEDAL
    Summary: WHEN DRIVING A SPEED AND THE ACCELERATOR IS PRESSED HARD TO PASS OR TO ENTER A HIGHWAY, THE ENGINE RAVS BUT THE CAR DOES NOT ACCELERATE. THE DEALER TELLS ME THAT IS HOW THE CAR IS DESIGNED. I HAVE A 2002 LEXUS ES300 BUT HAVE DRIVEN THE 2004'S AND THEY ACT THE SAME WAY. WHEN YOU STUMP ON THE GAS AND THE CAR DOES NOT GO. IT LEAVES YOU IN A VERY PROCARIES SITUATION.*AK


    22
    Make : LEXUS Model : ES300 Year : 2002
    Manufacturer : TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC.
    Crash : No Fire : No Number of Injuries: 0
    ODI ID Number : 10089243 Number of Deaths: 0
    Date of Failure: January 5, 2002
    VIN : JTHBF30G620...
    Component: ELECTRICAL SYSTEM
    Summary: WHILE APPLYING THE ACCELERATOR PEDAL, THE VEHICLE HESITATED TO ACCELERATE. CONSUMER TRIED NUMEROUS TIMES AND SUDDENLY THE VEHICLE ACCELERATED UNCONTROLLABLY. THE CONSUMER WAS ABLE TO MAINTAIN CONTROL OF THE VEHICLE AND DROVE IT TO THE DEALER FOR INSPECTION. THE MECHANIC DETERMINED THAT COMPUTER NEEDED TO BE REPROGRAMMED. HOWEVER, THE PROBLEM RECURRED. *AK *TC *JB

    23
    Make : LEXUS Model : ES300 Year : 2002
    Manufacturer : TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC.
    Crash : No Fire : No Number of Injuries: 0
    ODI ID Number : 10093211 Number of Deaths: 0
    Date of Failure: May 11, 2004
    VIN : JTHBF30G825...
    Component: POWER TRAIN:AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION
    Summary: 2002 LEXUS ES300 WITH ABOUT 18,000 MILES HAS A PROBLEM WITH HESITATION WHEN ACCELERATING AFTER SLOWING DOWN, ESPECIALLY AFTER COMPLETING A TURN. IT IS LIKE THE TRANSMISSION DOESN'T ADJUST WITH THE PRESSING OF THE GAS PEDAL. ALMOST HAD AN ACCIDENT BECAUSE OF THE HESITATION. ALSO I HAVE HAD PROBLEMS WITH THE CAR DOWN SHIFTING AS I COME DOWN A HILL. ALSO A PROBLEM WITH THE CAR TRYING TO DECIDE WHAT GEAR TO BE IN WHEN GOING AROUND 20 TO 25 MILES PER HOUR. YOU CAN FEEL THE CAR CHANGE GEAR. PASSENGERS EVEN HAVE ASKED WHAT WAS THAT? COMPLAINED TO DEALERSHIP, AND WAS TOLD IT WAS THE WAY I DRIVE. I HAD THE SB-TC004-03 PERFORMED AFTER RECEIVING THE LETTER FROM LEXUS, BUT IT DIDN'T HELP. MAY HAVE MADE IT WORSE. *AK


    24
    Make : LEXUS Model : ES300 Year : 2002
    Manufacturer : TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC.
    Crash : No Fire : No Number of Injuries: 0
    ODI ID Number : 10099705 Number of Deaths: 0
    Date of Failure: November 9, 2004
    VIN : JTHBF30G320...
    Component: POWER TRAIN:AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION
    Summary: WHEN ACCELERATING OR DECELERATING VEHICLE SHIFTED VIOLENTLY. DEALER STATED THEY KNEW ABOUT THE PROBLEM, BUT COULD NOT FIND A SOLUTION AT THIS TIME. *AK

    25
    Make : LEXUS Model : ES300 Year : 2002
    Manufacturer : TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC.
    Crash : No Fire : No Number of Injuries: 0
    ODI ID Number : 10102266 Number of Deaths: 0
    Date of Failure: September 16, 2004
    VIN : JTHBF30G020...
    Component: POWER TRAIN:AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION
    Summary: I OWN A 2002 LEXUS ES300, AND THE CAR IS DANGEROUS! I'VE TAKEN IT TO THE DEALER MANY TIMES TO HAVE THE TRANSMISSION CHECKED OUT, BECAUSE IT HESITATES IN TRAFFIC WHEN YOU PRESS THE GAS.THEY JUST SAY SOME BABBLE ABOUT THE "TRANSMISSION JUST NEEDS TO GET USED TO THE DRIVER", IM SORRY BUT JUST BECAUSE WE CAN AFFORD AN EXPENSIVE CAR DOESNT MEAN THAT WE'RE STUPID. THIS IS MY WIFE'S CAR, AND I REALLY DON'T THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE ANY INJURIES OR FATALITIES TO HAVE SOMETHING DONE ABOUT THIS WIDE SPREAD PROBLEM. *AK
  • scoti1scoti1 Posts: 676
    26
    Make : LEXUS Model : ES300 Year : 2002
    Manufacturer : TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC.
    Crash : No Fire : No Number of Injuries: 0
    ODI ID Number : 10110385 Number of Deaths: 0
    Date of Failure: February 5, 2005
    VIN : Not Available
    Component: POWER TRAIN:AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION
    Summary: MY 2002 LEXUS ES300 HAS HAD CONTINUAL TRANSMISSION AND SHIFTING PROBLEMS. WE TOOK IT IN FOR THE UPDATE BUT THAT DID NOT FIX THE PROBLEM. WHEN I ASKED AGAIN I WAS TOLD I ALREADY HAD THE UPDATE AND THERE WAS NOTHING ELSE THAT COULD BE DONE. I BELIEVE LEXUS NEEDS TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY AND FIX THIS ISSUE. OFTEN TIMES I WILL PRESS THE GAS PEDAL TO QUICKLY GET OUT OF THE WAY AND THE DELAY IS NOT ONLY ANNOYING, IT'S DANGEROUS.*JB

    27
    Make : LEXUS Model : ES300 Year : 2002
    Manufacturer : TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC.
    Crash : No Fire : No Number of Injuries: 0
    ODI ID Number : 10116627 Number of Deaths: 0
    Date of Failure: June 30, 2004
    VIN : Not Available
    Component: POWER TRAIN:AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION
    Summary: WHEN ACCELERATING IN MY 2002 LEXUS ES300, I EXPERIENCE HESITATION OF A FEW SECONDS BEFORE THE VEHICLE BEGINS TO INCREASE IN SPEED. THIS DID NOT SEEM TO BE A PROBLEM WHEN I FIRST GOT THE VEHICLE, BUT OVER TIME HAS BECOME EXTREMELY NOTICEABLE AND DANGEROUS SINCE I DRIVE ON THE MAJOR HIGHWAYS IN THE WASHINGTON, DC AREA. WHEN IT WAS REPORTED TO MY DEALER A FEW MONTHS AGO THEY EXPLAINED IT AWAY AND TOOK NO ACTION.*AK

    28
    Make : LEXUS Model : ES300 Year : 2002
    Manufacturer : TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC.
    Crash : No Fire : No Number of Injuries: 0
    ODI ID Number : 10130430 Number of Deaths: 0
    Date of Failure: July 23, 2005
    VIN : JTHBF30G225...
    Component: ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING:ENGINE
    Summary: UPON ACCELERATION IN STOP-AND-GO TRAFFIC, SEVERE HESITATION WITH BRAKE-LIKE EFFECT, ENGINE REVIVING, WITH DRIVER THROWN FORWARD, THEN LURCHING INTO GEAR. SAID WAS FIXED WITH INSTALLATION OF TSIB TC004-3. NARROWLY BEING MISSED BY ONCOMING TRAFFIC WHEN CAR BASICALLY STALLED. TSIB NOT A FIX. NOW ENGINE LIGHT ON. DANGEROUS IN STOP-AND-GO TRAFFIC. *NM


    29
    Make : LEXUS Model : ES300 Year : 2002
    Manufacturer : TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC.
    Crash : No Fire : No Number of Injuries: 0
    ODI ID Number : 10131624 Number of Deaths: 0
    Date of Failure: August 4, 2005
    VIN : Not Available
    Component: POWER TRAIN:AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION
    Summary: MY 2002 LEXUS 300 HAS A DANGEROUS AND SIGNIFICANT HESITATION AND SHIFTING PROBLEM. ACCELERATION IS SLUGGISH AND THEN SURGES FORWARD SUDDENLY CAUSING THE VEHICLE TO MOVE FORWARD UNEXPECTEDLY. IN ADDITION, THERE IS A REPEATED SHIFTING PROBLEM AT LOW SPEEDS WHEREIN THE VEHICLE CONTINUOUSLY SHIFTS IN AND OUT OF OVERDRIVE, AGAIN WITH UNEXPECTED AND UNCONTROLLABLE RESULTS. THE DEALER INDICATED THIS WAS THE WAY THESE CARS WERE ENGINEERED AND DID AN FIRMWARE UPGRADE. HOWEVER, THE PROBLEM PERSISTS IN MUCH THE SAME WAY. *JB

    30
    Make : LEXUS Model : ES300 Year : 2002
    Manufacturer : TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC.
    Crash : No Fire : No Number of Injuries: 0
    ODI ID Number : 10135396 Number of Deaths: 0
    Date of Failure: December 15, 2002
    VIN : Not Available
    Component: POWER TRAIN:AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION
    Summary: THE FLAWS AND FAILURES OF THE TRANSMISSION IN MY 2002 LEXUS ES300 WERE NOTICEABLE WITHIN 500 MILES OF DRIVING THE NEW CAR OFF THE LOT. I NOW HAVE 47,000 MILES ON THE CAR AND LEXUS HAS PERFORMED RE-PROGRAMMING OF THE TRANSMISSION LOGIC. HOWEVER, THAT HAS NOT HELPED. IT SEEMS THAT AS I DRIVE MORE MILEAGE THE PROBLEM OF THE TRANSMISSION NOT KNOWING WHAT GEAR TO BE IN IS BECOMING WORSE. THE RESULTING HESITATION IS DANGEROUS FOR THE DRIVER AND OCCUPANTS OF MY CAR AS IT RESULTS IN CLOSE-CALLS WITH OTHER VEHICLES HITTING ME FROM BEHIND DURING HESITATION. *JB
  • billranbillran Posts: 113
    Just what is your point scoti? I dont think anyone ever said these reports did not exist. I also see a lot of "VIN: Not available" so the possiblity of multiple posts by the same people is not only possible, but likely. And for someone who does not even own an affected vehicle to go to the great effort of collecting and posting all of these is certainly curious indeed. I guess we could plaster this board with testimonies of great performance too but I am not sure it would prove anything. Just as the posts above dont prove anything we have not already discussed. I personally think it is a bit absurd and I am really starting to have serious concerns about the motivation here.

    I made a mistake and checked the total cars sold and I also lowballed it bigtime. The total combined sales for the V6 Camry and Highlander, ES330, RX330 and Sienna for the last 4 years is actually about two million cars (107,000 RX330s in 2005 alone). So again, if this big safety issue applies to all the cars, and only one in 10 people even reports it, we are still short 199,970 complaints. We are going to need a much bigger discussion board.
  • motownusamotownusa Posts: 836
    :P You haven't figured him out yet. He is our resident anti Toyota/Lexus crusader. You will find him in just about all the Toyota/Lexus forum preaching his anti Toyota gospel. If you want I can keep counting on how many forums he has visited and how times he keeps linking those websites to the hesitation forum. :P
  • user777user777 Posts: 3,341
    ahh - if anyone should look in numerous forums, one will find wwest (and other "regulars") actually helping people of various makes and models of vehicles. what you will not find is him nor anyone else (at lest that i have read) preaching any anti-Toyota gospel. his motivation, and the motivation of others like myself and scoti1 are quite legitimate and sincerely focused on helping other vehicle owners.

    these are truthful statements. if you care to prove me wrong, you may.

    if someone would like to get this forum shutdown just like the Engine Hesitation All Makes and Models, why not be a bit more overt about it? what is the motivation to do that?

    factually, wwest has added more to this discussion topic than anyone. it's true he's been theorizing and it's also true his theories are a bit hard to follow, and change a bit from time to time, but at least he has people discussing the phenomenon, and what might be causing it, and he's an open minded soul, and he's been doing some research on the issue, searching for and consulting technical materials so that he may write on the subject from a more informed perspective.

    in contrast there are a few posters that keep on asserting "regulars" are trying to run them off, and that some are not welcome, and that while there is the apparent sincere belief that the posters are unhappy with their ride, it's not a problem, it's not significant, it doesn't impact safety, it's not the responsibility of the manufacturer to make right, they don't experience any problem and therefore it's very difficult to believe one exists.

    so i ask, what have they actually provided which furthers the discussion besides presenting arguments for dismissing the reports of those with the problem?

    in 5 minutes I scanned the NHTSA site for 2002 model year ES300s for complaints on operation of the drivetrain and hesitation, and found approximately 30 unique hits. ok, they might not all be unique. ok - maybe someone is bent on casting toyota/lexus in a bad light by making multiple submissions to the agency. i conceed that probably happens. but clearly, I didn't even try to look for other Toyota or Lexus models nor other years. how is it that i was so successful, when we have posters that can't seem to (or is it don't want to) find more than 10 to 20 total?

    remember, that was 30 for 2002 Lexus ES300. i didn't bother searching for other years or models. i don't need to. i've been contemplating the reports of people with the problem and taking them at face value.

    anyone following this discussion that's open minded sees there is a deliberate attempt to cast doubt on the validity of the postings by people with the hesitation, and to also label others as motivated to bring down the house of toyota.

    please.

    why i wonder can't these posters conceed there are people deserving of better treatment by the manufacturer, and take at face value their concerns re: drivability, acceptance, expectation of performance and service, and even safety?

    for the record, i didn't play the safety card first.

    numerous posters with the hesitation issue did that. it is true that i have been arguing there is a branch of psychology called "Human Factors" with specialists (also tending to be computer scientists or systems engineers - thus trained in multiple relevant domains) that deal with human / computer interaction and complex systems.

    they analyze the performance of humans "in the loop" performing tasks and assess impact of design attributes / affordances / indications / behaviors which collide with or fail to support prior learning, an appropriate mental model consistent with the design / functional model, human capacity and our limitations (along the lines of mental processing time, perception, motor control, memory (short- long- and memory organization(narrow / wide vs. deep / shallow), abstraction, simulation of future events, decision making etc, etc).

    they should be the ones looking into the issue here. i'm quite perplexed myself that i cannot find significant writings w.r.t. human factors research and the automotive domain, dealing specifically with issues such as this one.

    at least not yet. ;)
  • motownusamotownusa Posts: 836
    Sorry I don't take anything posted on the internet at face value. The Nhtsa website is filled with duplicates and fake VIN #. While I respect some of WWEST's opinions I certainly don't agree with all of them. And regarding Scotie, I don't know what is personal motivation is; but he seems to have gone through a lot of trouble cutting and pasting the engine hesitation complaint from all over the internet and posting it here. I see him sometimes in the Camry, Highlander and Avalon forum and trying this same thing over there. I find his intense obsession with this particular topic rather curious and I must say i am a bit skeptical of his true intention.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    even I no longer believe in some of my theories.
  • hylynerhylyner Posts: 216
    Thank you Scoti for listing all those "Complaints" from NHTSA. You certainly saved some of us the trouble, and you are to be commended for your efforts. (In doing so it looks like some aren't too impressed and now think you are an anti Toyota advocate--go figure!)
    However, I think your diligence has exposed a serious example of how the complaint system at NHTSA is exploited. You deserve MANY thanks from everyone for that!!
    I believe at least 25 of the 30 "complaints" listed by you are counterfeit. Call them fakes, bogus, frauds, dishonest, or whatever you like, but on close examination there is absolutely no doubt they aren't legitimate.
    Reasons for concluding this are because of some disturbing anomalies with VIN numbers in many of the "complaints".
    Here's what jumps right out:

    Eight have no VIN number listed at all--"not available". This could be because complainants don't know what it is or how to find it, but I seriously doubt that. VINs are very common knowledge and easy to source.
    Nine have consecutive VIN numbers with only one digit changed. They are shown as a distinct unique numerical sequence in the last three digits; JTHBF30G025, 125,225,325,425,525,625,725 and 925.
    Eight others contain another unique numerical sequence listed as follows: JTHBF30G120, 220,320,520,620,720, and 820.

    Furthermore, if you also look closely at those other Toyota sites at NHTSA you mentioned, you will quickly discover the same peculiar anomaly common to all of them.
    So my conclusion is that some individual(s) are posting fake complaints at NHTSA to get attention by NHTSA, perhaps in the belief they are doing a service by making complaints look bigger than they really are.
    The reason why no investigation was done by NHTSA may even relate to this fraud. NHTSA verifies each one of their listed complaints by contacting the owner. Most likely it didn't take NHTSA very long to figure out this scam.
    What are your thoughts on this disturbing situation Scoti?
  • I started to register a complaint with the NHTSA website. When I got to the request for the VIN, I realized that I did not want to register my vehicle with NHTSA, by VIN. When I decide to get rid of this car, I do not want a computer record of my "imaginary" problem.
  • hylynerhylyner Posts: 216
    If I may, please allow me to address some of the points you've raised.
    Yes there are "regulars helping people" here and elsewhere. Thanks for them!! They are sincere and objective for the most part. Wwest, as you noted, is a classic example. I applaud what he does, even though I don't always agree.
    Then there are other "regulars" who profess to be "helping people", but come across as always intent on presenting anything Toyota in a very negative way. They do this "regularly" and post very similar messages "regularly", in every Toyota forum in this website. A ton of hyperbole, misinformation, negative cut pastes, etc, accompany many of those "regular's" comments.
    Also note that some of those "regulars" are the ones who routinely tee off very aggressively at anyone who even remotely challenge some of their input.
    As to your assertion about no one trying to "run any doubters off", it happens often, and you know it--it happened just a few posts ago where someone asked a another to "refrain from posting here".
    Re the differences of opinion you say are being expressed here and perhaps aren't warranted. Really user 777, this is a democracy and different perspectives on the same issue are to be expected--and are protected under our constitution. This is an open discussion, and all sides of it are welcome, and all claims are open to interpretation. You should recognize that more than most, if you are as knowledgeable on human behavior you claim to be.
    Re the number of "complaints"at the NHTSA site? It now appears there's more than a little hanky panky happening there, as you may have seen from my post No.994, above. Most of the "complaints" you refer to are evidently fraudulent.
    Re concerned posters "deserving of better treatment"?
    Well, I could agree that some do. Unfortunately, because of efforts by those few (some who you call "regulars") who "regularly" resort to editorializing, rhetoric, and hyperbole to make their point, those poor folks' posts routinely get lost in a morass of misinformation. Some of your "regulars" should accept blame for that when they constantly focus on promoting the problem instead of being part of the solution.
    It's only that kind of "regular" conduct that I take issue with, and my record is clear in that context.
  • The articles that I refer to are articles that I read online over a year ago. I cannot remember the article title or what website the article was on. I have not claimed that Lexus admitted to a hesitation to avoid wear and tear. I remember reading an article quoting Lexus as saying something to the effect that the transmission is designed to behave the way that it does to protect the transmission. That is all.
  • hylynerhylyner Posts: 216
    Maybe you did shocaser, but I have trouble with it because there's a ton of hanky panky going on at the NHTSA complaint site. Further, I appreciate your honesty in withdrawing those earlier statements about all those so called "articles" you referred to. They just don't exist. There were some posts saying those things but no such articles.
    Re your decision not to add your VIN No. to an NHTSA complaint. They will probably insist upon it at some point in their investigation. It could become a matter of public record no matter what.

    At this point, I'm very interested in hearing what everyone has to say about fraudulent complaints at NHTSA that Scoti showed us.
  • I did not withdraw anything. I stated that I read the articles over a year ago and do not know exactly how to find them. I know they exist because I read them.

    I was going to register a compaint with NHTSA about my car but realized that I did not want a permanent record of a problem with my car by listing the VIN. I think that could be a reason that many people do not list the VIN.

    Look, I am not trying to "bash" Lexus. I have a problem with my Lexus. It is not the only problem, but it is the one that bothers me the most. Why isn't this acceptable?
  • scoti1scoti1 Posts: 676
    Just wanted to say that I really enjoyed this post. You have really hit the nail(s) on the head. Nicely said.
  • loungerlounger Posts: 32
    We have an 03 ES 300 and an 05 ES 330. Both cars exhibit the much discussed hesitation.

    I greatly appreciate wwest's theorizing and believe he is on the right track.

    I am looking forward to test driving the new Camry. I bet that Toyota will have made some changes to the way the car drives.

    If you are looking to buy a new or used 02-06 front drive Toyota/Lexus with the 5 speed automatic transmission, make sure to test drive it thoroughly.

    We have learned to live with its quirks. We also own an 03 Mercedes Benz E 320. It has been in the shop for a lot more issues including the electrohydraulic brake (SBC) recalls. That said, the Benz's transmission works much better than the Lexi transmissions. I cannot vouch for the newer MB 7 speed transmission.

    The most annoying thing for me occurs when slowing to a stop but not making a full stop and still traveling about 5 to 10 mph. If I apply the gas pedal in that situation, the car hesitates and then usually gives me a harsh downshift. So I very gently ease onto the gas in that situation to give the transmission time to downshift to 2nd gear. I have had to adapt to the car. My girlfriends 1999 4 cylinder Camry with a 4 speed automatic transmission is a marvel of sophistication when compared to the 5 speed front drive Lexi transmission (at least our two cars).

    I am curious about VW/Audi DSG transmission, which would be my suggestion to test out if you want crisp postitive lightning fast shifts. Don't get mad at Lexus/Toyota if the car is really driving you nuts. Just try something else.
  • cxccxc Posts: 122
    We also have a 02 ES300 that shows similar hesitation discussed here; it is extremely annoying when doing stop/go or driving at a low speed. We bought it because of the reputation of 2001 or earlier ES300. However, the past performance has no guarantee for the future. The 02 ES300 has a unpredictable transmission, a set of bad brakes (I have the third set of brakes), and rattles here and there. Its CR reliability rating dropped from top to who knows where; it is even less reliable than Hyundai.
  • user777user777 Posts: 3,341
    You realize that VINs have many more digits than those shown on the NHTSA site right? Personally, I have 17 digits in the VINs of my vehicles. How about you? Apparently, the site isn't displaying them all.

    I never claimed to be an expert in Systems Engineering nor Human Factors.

    Scoti helps people find relevant information and in a professional manner. He does not bash Toyota. History: perhaps you were around when the Hesitation Forum was started because our hosts didn't want people posting in discrepant forums on the same topic... Then we collectively shot ourselves in the foot by getting it shut down. Scoti has merely been directing people from the other forums to the Hesitation forum, or relevant active forum when they post about their problem. People with the problem are beneficiaries of his efforts.

    I'm sure - and I think this has been written before, the regulars are merely interested in this phenomenon, perhaps for reasons related to systems engineering, human factors, automotive automation, arbitration, desires to provide balance to what they perceive is slanted against one particular manufacturer, or maybe because they own the vehicle and have a problem. I have yet to see a post which is purposefully bashing any particular manufacturer. No doubt, we have seen a few posters with a problem doing some passionate venting.
  • motownusamotownusa Posts: 836
    Sorry I don't believe some of the people are just merely interested in this phenomenon. The nature of the post indicates they have either an axe to grind or some kind of ulterior motive. But you and WWEST are not two of them so chill out.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    But I seem to remember that when I filed a complaint with NHTSA about the spontaneous windshiedl fogging on my 1992 LS400 in about 93 it got listed on the site in multiple "bins", visibility problems, climate control problems and possibly more.

    The multiple listing arose simply because the person at NHTSA wanted it that way to get the widest exposure.

    I could see this one easily being categorized in engine controls/response, transmission controls/response, and throttle control/DBW, provided all of those exist in some form or another.
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