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Saab 9-2X

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Comments

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I would not expect significant differences in insurance rates. Saab buyers may tend to be older and that might help some with fewer claims, maybe.

    You can get heated seats in a WRX sedan, moonroof too, but not wagon. In Canada they get those, though.

    The same dealer, fitzmall, sells both. WRX range from $20,831 (base wagon) to $24,810 for a loaded up sedan with the premium package.

    Saab 9-2x Aeros at the same dealership go for $25,268 to $28,130.

    So we're talking about $3-4 grand or so.

    -juice
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,175
    Yes, all Subarus are ugly...

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  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    You don't like the Legacy? Wow. I've seen it called everything from handsome to boring but never ugly.

    I think the 9-2x is the best looking car on the Impreza chassis, but it that way. The 1998-2002 Impreza RS looked even better though. After that it went down hill.

    And I like the Legacy a lot.

    -juice
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,175
    Yanking your chain...

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  • tonedebonetonedebone Member Posts: 36
    > Disagree. Couple thousand, and actually I think
    > it's even more than that. $31k sticker, maybe you
    > can get them down to $27k if you're really good.
    > But WRX wagons can be had for $21k and even loaded
    > up it's hard to break $24k street price.

    I test drove a 92X and a WRX on the same day. Identical drives and got near identical quotes from the two dealers. Could probably have beat the Subaru guy down more, but the 92X had the options I wanted (granted, that put the price up again).

    Does anyone have any info on insurance for a WRX ? For my 92X the premium went DOWN from my 7 year old Integra (base engine).

    After 4 years I expect to sell the 92X for the same price as an '05 WRX, plus a bit extra for the leather. Taking into account the free maintainance, possible insurance difference and the gamble that anything breaking in the 4th year is still under warrantee, the actual cost to own a 92X vs. a WRX is negligable.

    For the price of a Starbuck's each day I get to sit in my heated leather seats in what I think is a nicer looking car.

    The Legacy was too big for me and my garage, so was off the list from the start.
  • wavehowaveho Member Posts: 31
    "Judging by your responses, I doubt if you've even seen a Legacy GT, let alone driven one."--RSHOLLAND.

    Nice back-handed insult! I'm further impressed that you were able to glean that much personal information from a couple of posts. I'm certain that the Edmunds hosts appreciate someone representing Edmunds Forums taking a cheap shot at forum users and fellow car enthusiasts. You really make me want to learn more about Subarus!

    In any event, in response I can say that I am very familiar with the Legacy and all its various forms, including Outback, GT, sedans, wagons, etc. I have never driven one, no, but I have been a passenger in a Legacy Outback plenty of times and I have seen many a GT on the road and at the dealership just recently.

    I should give a restatement of my previous assertation that Subarus are butt-ugly: Subarus are all butt-ugly, with the exception that the Legacy can vary from drop-dead boring to butt-ugly, depending on the model.

    Aside to another comment from ateixeira directed to me: I know that all Subarus look DIFFERENT! What has that to do with the fact (from my point of view and opinion) that they all (mostly) look ugly? They can be different AND ugly. I'm just stating my perception and one shared by many people; I'm not asking you to agree with me.

    You are clearly predisposed against the 9-2X, and sticker price aside, you refuse to acknowledge that you can get either the Subaru or the Saab versions at fairly similar pricing if you are persistent enough--along with a better warranty, much better lines, and nicer features. And now, I clearly stated that I am NOT by any means a "Saab fan." In fact, I think they are generally less reliable than Subarus and I already said that my preference is for American cars. The 9-2X is for my wife; I drive a Suburban Z71.

    Don't be so judgmental and insulting and people may even pay attention to what you say.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I just found it a bit unusual that with so much variety you found (almost) nothing to like.

    Most people hate some, love others.

    I'm not against the 9-2x, haven't been from the get-go. I took a minority position among the Subaru crowd, that the 9-2x could help them spread costs a bit and get more volume for the Gunma factory in Japan. Plus I've always said it looked better (read up in this very thread).

    I think it's worth a grand more, sure, but not $3-4 grand. Even if you want leather, I'd go aftermarket and get Katskins for $900 or so. Heated leather for $1200.

    They're on pace to sell just 2000 per year, so apparently most consumers agree about the price difference being a bit too much.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Drive a new '05 Legacy GT Limited. If afterwards you're still so anti-Subaru... well, then I give up...

    Yes, I'm predisposed against the the 9-2x, as it's a lousy value, as compared to the '05 Legacy GT. You are one of the very few who seems to disagree, because the 9-2x is selling way below Saab expectations.

    I'm also predisposed against Saabs in general as the only one I've ever owned ('86 9000 turbo bought new) was perhaps the worst, most unreliable car I've ever owned. I unloaded it as soon as the warranty was up.

    BTW, I'm not on the Edmunds payroll either. I was asked to be a Subaru Crew Chief by a member of the Edmunds.com Subaru community a few years ago. So there are some people here who listen to me.

    Finally, you're more than welcome to disagree with me, but it's you, not me, who's throwing out the insults. I'm merely pointing out some rather obvious holes that the 9-2x has in terms of value. I see it as nothing more than a designer-label WRX, and as with most designer-label products, a poor value.

    Bob
  • wolftimwolftim Member Posts: 34
    Congrats Saaby92x. I can personally say you will enjoy it. Besides, you can't get an Acura or a Lexus for that cheap. Also, to all those concerned if the 9-2X will be around for a while, I received an e-mail from the internet manager at saabusa.com. He said that he has heard nothing about discontinuing the any part of the 9-2X model in 2006. He says, "We stand behind this product and will be continuing it into the 2006 model year." Again, congratulations on your purchase Saaby9-2X.
  • KCRamKCRam Member Posts: 3,516
    "Judging by your responses, I doubt if you've even seen a Legacy GT, let alone driven one."--RSHOLLAND.

    Nice back-handed insult! I'm further impressed that you were able to glean that much personal information from a couple of posts. I'm certain that the Edmunds hosts appreciate someone representing Edmunds Forums taking a cheap shot at forum users and fellow car enthusiasts. You really make me want to learn more about Subarus!


    Bob (rsholland) has been a member of these forums for a very long time, and he knows the rules here very well. There is nothing about his statement that is a personal insult or attack. He stated that your comments appear to be from someone who has not seen or driven the LegGT - he did not say anything about you. There is no reason to argue about things that don't exist. If you have a problem with a member, contact the host of the board you're in - we're located at the top of the page in every discussion.

    kcram
    Host - Wagons
  • KCRamKCRam Member Posts: 3,516
    I deleted your last two posts only because they both probably should have been emailed to me. I saved them in my own file and I respect both of you for your responses.

    At this point, I'd say you guys are at the "agree to disagree" stage, and we'll just move forward from here. Sound good?

    kcram
    Host - Wagons
  • tonedebonetonedebone Member Posts: 36
    > Have you checked Saab residuals? I think you will

    > be sorely disappointed... Figure on getting about > 40% of MSRP after 4 years..

     

    Hmmm, no-one is buying this car because they know it's a jumped up Subaru which they can buy cheaper down the road.

     

    But when I come to sell it everyone will think it's a Saab and it'll be worth less than a Subaru.

     

    40% of MSRP for the Saab actually works out the same as 50% of MSRP for the Subaru, so I guess we're both right !
  • tonedebonetonedebone Member Posts: 36
    > The same dealer, fitzmall, sells both. WRX range

    > from $20,831 (base wagon) to $24,810 for a loaded

    > up sedan with the premium package.

    >

    > Saab 9-2x Aeros at the same dealership go for

    > $25,268 to $28,130.

    >

    > So we're talking about $3-4 grand or so.

      

    Base price of my Aero was $23.5k, so that's $2.7k over the WRX's $20.8k. Take off $500 for included services and we get $2.2k. Over 4 years that works out as $10/week; that's less than the weekly cost of insurance or gas.

     

    It wouldn't take much to go wrong in the 4th year (eg. a new window motor = $750) to narrow the gap even further.

     

    The powertrain warranty on the WRX is better (which I presume covers the turbo & diffs), so if I intended to keep the car for less than 3 or much more than 4 years, the pendulum might have swung back in favor of the WRX.
  • gticrazygticrazy Member Posts: 1
    What if I can take advantage of a GM family discount, the $3000 cash back, and other cash bonuses to get a 92X cheaper than a WRX? I think that's a good buy.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    $2200 is $2200, not $10 per week. If you look at payments you have to add interest so it's more than that.

     

    Special deals for employees is a whole other ball park. If you qualify that can certainly change the game significantly.

     

    -juice
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,175
    Someone tried to give me $10,000 the other day.. but, I didn't take it..

     

    I mean, after all.. that only adds up to $10/week until I retire.. hardly worth it.. ;-)

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  • bigdaddycoatsbigdaddycoats Member Posts: 1,058
    YTD sales for-

     

    V50 - 1928

     

    9-2x - 1350

     

    Not that far off. I believe the V50 went on sale before the 9-2x, not sure though. The market for small wagons must be small itself.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,889
    hmmmmm... I'm not sure, either, but I seemed to think the 9-2X went on sale first.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • bigdaddycoatsbigdaddycoats Member Posts: 1,058
    I looked up some past info -

     

    9-2x on sale in June with 48 sold. Well, 1 in May

     

    V50 on sale in July with sales of 105, with sales of 263 before that - not listed in June sales though.

     

    All of the sales data is form Automotive News.

     

    So, basically sales began around the same time period for both.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    And V50 has the Mazda3 5 door sharing its platform, though it's a lot more distinguished from its cheaper cousin than the Saab.

     

    I think Saab will go a lot farther next time, including the Subaru B9X/Saab 9-6x.

     

    -juice
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,175
    Anyone shopping the V50 has the option of the S40 right next to it.. The 9-2X has no sedan counterpart and many people will consider it a hatchback..

     

    I think if V50 sales are equivalent to the 9-2X, then that shows the Volvo is a much more popular car..

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  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    They're ahead, so it's far more popular, really.

     

    -juice
  • booyeahbooyeah Member Posts: 1
    I can get a fully loaded 92-X aero for 28,316 out the door. That covers every cost, would you recommend it over the WRX or Legacy at that price? Is there any situation when the linear makes more sense than the aero?
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Booyeah, my recommendation would be for you to drive all the models under consideration; not once, but several times, over several days, so that you can digest and evaluate the experiences. Then decide.

     

    I've done that, and my experience is that the turbo Legacy GT would be the winner. Even though you may be able to get the 9-2x for a little less than the Legacy GT, which car would you rather live with over the course of 3 – 5 years? I choose the Legacy, you may disagree.

     

    If you your are considering an automatic, the Legacy becomes a no-brainer, as it has a 5-speed automatic with a manual-shift mode. The WRX and 9-2x only offer a 4-speed automatic, which doesn't have a manual-shift mode. Also, I would say thay that 90% of WRXs are sold with the manual tranny, simply because the the 2.0 turbo and the 4-speed automatic are not a great match, due to the WRX's (and 9-2 x Aero's) narrower powerband, which really doesn't give good power below 3000 rpm.

     

    Bob
  • tonedebonetonedebone Member Posts: 36
    > I think Saab will go a lot farther next time,

    > including the Subaru B9X/Saab 9-6x.

     

    I think the 9-2X will be a miserable failure (and I own one) because Saab didn't do enough to differentiate it from the WRX. If it came standard with the premium package or they had shoe-horned a navigation system into the console, then direct comparisons would be less possible.

     

    They claim they only had 18 months development, but some companies develop new cars from scratch in only double that time. In 18 months they couldn't even design a new key fob, and just stamped "Saab" on the old bulky Subaru standard issue one.

     

    When the WRX went on sale, Subaru dealers were adding $3k mark ups. When the 9-2X went on sale, Saab dealers were giving $3k incentives. Someone at Saab marketing somewhere got something totally wrong.
  • wavehowaveho Member Posts: 31
    Booyeah: As to your question, you may want to really drive both the Linear and the Aero in "real" about-town type driving circumstances. I drove both at some length and I was much more pleased with the Linear model, which we ended up buying fairly well loaded up, leather, moonroof, 2-disk CD, cold weather package, etc, for a little over $25K. While the Linear can't compete on the open freeway as far as performance and accelleration, it was much more than adequate and I found that the Linear was actually substantially more responsive in and around town. The Aero simply requires too much work and high revving to get the best results, which after time becomes tiresome. Also, opt for the manual transmission in either version. Performance is much sweeter and they both shift nicely.

     
  • yemyem Member Posts: 7
    Hello, I'm new here. I recently purchased the 92x, and it has been the worst experience I've ever had.... Let me start by saying that I loved the car. I looked at the Subaru and Saab for comparison, and felt the Saab best fit what I was looking for. I had it 2 weeks before I was in a major collision... Since then I've been dealing with SaabUSA for 46 days and counting. The first Saab blunder came when it took 2 weeks worth of attempting to acquire a parts/pricing list for the car. SaabUSA could not come up with one, so they had to take it to the local dealer to be taken apart to make the parts list. Since then, the parts have been ordered, but between the parts being back ordered, having to make parts in Japan to send them over, and not receiving all the ordered parts... it has been a very long 46 days; supposedly only 6 more days to go. We'll see.

    Making several calls to SaabUSA, I reached the Customer Service Dept. I was looking for some sort of compensation; whether it be in the form of rental car reimbursement, or the form of a loaner car, I felt I deserved something for their incompetence. After their "thorough" investigation, I got a call from said SaabUSA to tell me that repairs were going as usual, and determined that I would receive no compensation. 46 DAYS PEOPLE!!!

    Did I mention the airbag did not deploy. I was going 20mph when I t-boned a Bronco II, which was going at least 45mph and sent it flipping 3 times. NO AIRBAG DEPLOYMENT! Didn't it win some sort of impact test award? I slammed my head on the steering wheel... nothing too major for myself... Thank GOD! Have I heard anything from Saab in response to the airbag??? Not a peep!

    The constant excuse I get from Saab is, "It's a new car... you'll get that with upscale cars". Well hears an idea Saab... treat your customers like they are upscale buyers. I wouldn't ever buy another Saab for the simple fact of the customer service I have received. I recommend unless you all are guaranteed to never have to deal w/ Saab the Company, to look elsewhere when buying a car.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    are triggered by frontal impacts, not side impacts. Unless those sensors, which are in the front of the car, are activated, the airbags won't deploy. I'm almost certain that there are no (steering wheel) airbag sensors in the door. I could be wrong, but I don't think so.

     

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the 9-2x has side airbags. If it did, those airbags should have deployed.

     

    Bob
  • yemyem Member Posts: 7
    I'm sorry I didn't explain clearer. I didn't get hit in the side... I plowed in to the side of the Bronco with the front end of my car. The I-beams that run through the length of the car, where the airbag sensors are attached at the front of the car, were literally bent at a 45 degree angle at the sensor locations. Crazy!
  • yemyem Member Posts: 7
    Am I wrong in thinking Saab has been slack? Does anyone have any suggestions for coarse of action?
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Yep, the front airbags should have gone off.

     

    BTW, I checked the Saab 9-2 brochure, and it does indeed have side airbags; although in your case, they probably wouldn't have gone off.

     

    Bob
  • tonedebonetonedebone Member Posts: 36
    Sorry to hear about your crash. At 20mph I'm not sure airbags will blow; they work off decelleration rate, not how mangled the car is. The seatbelts should have worked better to restrain you though.

     

    Unfortunately Saab probably see it as the insurance company's job to supply the loaner. In this situation they're just another body shop.
  • robertannarobertanna Member Posts: 3
    I had a minor collision and went through the same thing although on a much smaller scale. I needed no new parts, however the insurance adjustor had a difficult time getting the software to recognize the 92x.

     

    I would imagine that Fuji Heavy Industries commits production timeframes for the 92x off of the impreza line, and retools accordingly. Don't forget, the 92x production pales in comparison to the many varieties of the impreza. In other words, the 92x (and specific body components) are most likely produced NOT on a daily basis but other limited timeframes, probably weeks at a time and then stopped.

     

    I totally agree with your complaint and sympathize, but lets not impugne an entire product based entirely on this one experience. My 92x has been an awesome car so far and I'm satisfied in every way, especially now that it's snowing out.

     

    As far as the airbag issue is concerned, if you were telling me that the airbag did not deploy AND that you sustained a serious injury, I would think it to be a serious issue. My feeling is that it worked the way it was engineered to.

     

    I hope they fix it soon and do a great job. The premium paid for the Saab should not entitle you or I to extra headaches.

     

    BTW-Is insurance covering a rental car during this time?
  • yemyem Member Posts: 7
    I hear what you're saying with regards to production time-frames, makes perfect sense.... I just wish they'd tell me something to that effect rather than promising me that parts were shipped and arriving when in effect the parts were back ordered or not ordered (Saab of Charlotte has been doing the part ordering). But 2 months to fix a car? I just think it's ridiculous. I just feel like I've been getting the classic case of the run-a-round. Very frustrating.

    I don't think I I'm impugning the 92x.... I started my original post w/ how much I enjoyed my car... still do; just wish I were driving it.

    With regards to the airbag... I agree if they didn't go off it was PROBABLY engineered not to go off in that type of situation... but again, I'd like to know FOR SURE the thing is working. If you saw the car after the accident you'd be scratching your head as to why the thing didn't deploy. I have raised the concern to Saab with absolutely no reply. I'm not looking to sue... I'm just looking for some sort of customer relations/satisfaction and I have received NONE.

    Insurance covered the first 15-days of repair. Saab claims they'll pick up the tab after 30-days if the slow repair is due to their issues... but they denied my claim. I guess parts being back ordered is not their fault?
  • robertannarobertanna Member Posts: 3
    The bottom line here is that you're out of pocket because GM failed to make good on it's obligation.

     

    If they couldn't come through, they should have been more upfront with the dealer, and the dealer in kind would had been to you.

     

    I would send them a demand letter with proof that the parts were ordered in a timely manner by the dealer.

     

    I drive about 100 miles a day in my 92x and ever since I read your post last night, I cringe everytime someone pulls out in front of me.
  • yemyem Member Posts: 7
    Thank you for understanding.....

     

    NOTE TO ALL... GET GOOD RENTAL CAR COVERAGE!!!!
  • yemyem Member Posts: 7
    Just a little update... My 92x has been in the shop for 51 days now. The part they were waiting on is back-ordered till at least the first week in January.

    That'll be over 60 days.!!!!! BUY SUBARU!!! I'm warning you now...
  • yemyem Member Posts: 7
    Christmas surprise from Saab? Not quite. I've never received such inadequate customer service as I have w/ Saab. If you consider customer service an attribute to buying your car.....YOU DO NOT WANT A SAAB. I just received a call on X-mas eve... hoping for good news w/ regards to my car, or at least possible partial compensation for the rental car (It has been 54 days as of today) Unfortunately, my fan shroud being back ordered since Nov. 18th isn't considered their fault according to them. I'll say it again... Brand new Saab...Same 'ol company. I've always heard the stereotypical horror stories w/ regards to Saab Service/Customer service, but i Figured it's 2004, things like that don't happen anymore. WRONG! I truely warn anyone who is considering a Saab to reconsider.
  • tonedebonetonedebone Member Posts: 36
    > Unfortunately, my fan shroud being back ordered

    > since Nov. 18th isn't considered their fault

     

    I would guess the fan shroud is a 100% Impreza part that most Subaru service shops would have in stock (if not then you might have had the same problem with the same accident in an Impreza). Have you tried asking at the local Subaru dealer ? I imagine the Saab dealer would be too pompous to do that themselves.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Good point. However, by going to a Subie dealer to get that part, it won't be covered under warranty; as it's not a "Saab" part.

     

    Bob
  • bigdaddycoatsbigdaddycoats Member Posts: 1,058
    Currently there is a $3000 rebate, plus $1500 additional if you have a GM vehicle - $4500 total. That really make the price much more reasonable. So, you could most likely get an Aero for around $21k - pretty good.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,889
    i see the $1500 loyalty rebate, but where did you see the $3K? Its not here on Edmunds. Carsdirect shows "special pricing," but that doesn't tell me much. Is it $3K dealer money?

     

    By the way, the $4500 off the $26,778 leaves a bit over $22k, which, incidentally, is about the same price carsdirect gives me for a base WRX wagon. Interesting. So Subaru gives them a car and they now turn around and start canibalizing Sube sales. Nice job, GM.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Volume is too little to matter much.

     

    -juice
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,889
    But isn't that when it matters MORE? Taking 20K units from a car that sells 200K isn't that bad, but taking just 10K from one that sells 30K is a killer.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,175
    I think WRX sales were on the wane... You can buy one for $4K under MSRP..

     

    I think overall it would be additive to Subaru sales, not dilutive.. I mean, it is still Subaru that builds the car.. It is only their dealer network that loses out..

     

    regards,

    kyfdx

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  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, it hurts dealers most, and dealer relations.

     

    Impreza sales dropped off slightly, but Subaru still had a record year in 2004.

     

    Hopefully the next generation will offer more differentiation so there's not so much overlap.

     

    -juice
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,889
    that's an interesting point. I guess you are right that they are at least selling something somewhere. Of course, they are getting less for the car when they sell it to Saab than when they sell it to a dealership. But maybe it comes close to all balancing out in the end.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,175
    and it just came to me..

     

    Even a blind pig finds an acorn, once in awhile..

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  • bigdaddycoatsbigdaddycoats Member Posts: 1,058
    $3k is from the incentives portion at gmfamilyfirst.com.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,889
    soooo.... that's an employee discount? not exactly available to the general public, right?

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

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