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BMW 1-Series

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  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    but I still maintain you will not sell a base 128i series for $28K and the base 135i series for $35K .

    Where do you guys get a 7k price between the 28 and 35? BMW bumps the price 4500-5000 between the engine choices. So if you're putting the 128 at 28k, the 135 must be about 33k. They're not gonna bump the price 7k...there's no precedent for that much of a gap between the 3.0 engines.

    Sure it won't drive like a BMW but it'll be close enough and probably more comfort and for the same or less since many manufacturers discount their cars unlike BMW

    All non-M BMWs are discounted. Always. This isn't 1990. BMW is in a tough market and you should be able to buy any BMW for near invoice (or well below invoice via ED).
  • stevecebustevecebu Posts: 493
    Where do you guys get a 7k price between the 28 and 35? BMW bumps the price 4500-5000 between the engine choices. So if you're putting the 128 at 28k, the 135 must be about 33k. They're not gonna bump the price 7k...there's no precedent for that much of a gap between the 3.0 engines.

    I already answered that question in my last post and it was not $7K it was 5K if you add it up the difference is something like $5,500 between the 328i and the 335i and $5,100 between the 528i and the 535i. If my math is wrong in that post them by all means cut an paste it so I can see where I added incorrectly.
    Also it's just a logical guesstimate. Only BMW knows for sure. i think the coupe will have limited appeal in such a small size but they will probably have a 4 door soon afterwards.

    You also didn't read why I used MSRP and stated my reasons for doing so. Do you know you can get the 1 series which is unreleased for invoice? I don't, too many factors which muddy the waters, so I used MSRP. What is invoice on it? We are trying to gauge MSRP not out the door prices.

    I'm glad you mentioned the tough market which drives prices down. i wonder how many 135i's BMW would sell if they sold them with a sport package for $28K out the door? I know it won't happen but it would boost them up a lot if they did. They would stomp their competitors flat with that inline six Turbo in a light coupe at a few grand above a WRX.
    Still it will be higher, probably close to what I've shown.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257

    I'm glad you mentioned the tough market which drives prices down. i wonder how many 135i's BMW would sell if they sold them with a sport package for $28K out the door?


    It wouldn't help them much. The people who want a car like that will gladly pay in the 30s for it. Nothing like it exists in the market.

    I know it won't happen but it would boost them up a lot if they did. They would stomp their competitors flat with that inline six Turbo in a light coupe at a few grand above a WRX.

    Profit margins would be tight and like I said, it'll move fine with the price in the 30s. The 330 in the e46 sold at about 1 to 5 margin with the smaller 325 models. The e90 is selling a bit more 35s right now but the market will probably correct. The 328 is the bread and butter for the 3. I'd imagine the 128 will do the same - at 26-27k they'll probably sell well above the more enthusiast oriented 31-32k 135. Plus the 128 may offer a more satisfying drive - lighter, less weight in front, better balance much as the e90 328 and e46 325 felt a bit more nimble than the e46 330 and e9 335.

    PS: BMW has made it clear that the hatch won't come and there's not been a test shot of a 4 door 1 series in years.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,613
    that's what i see, too (here on edmunds, at least). $5500 more in coupe form, $5900 more in sedan form.

    '13 Stang GT; '15 Fit; '98 Volvo S70; '14 Town&Country

  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,613
    PS: BMW has made it clear that the hatch won't come and there's not been a test shot of a 4 door 1 series in years.

    Well, I certainly could be wrong, but maybe, just maybe, if the 1-series coupe sells like hotcakes, BMW will consider more variants for us (and not just the drop-top).

    '13 Stang GT; '15 Fit; '98 Volvo S70; '14 Town&Country

  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 30,539
    The one positive is that they are already making hatches, so they just have to federalize it...

    No sedan, yet, though..

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  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=536

    The pics are far better than those originally released.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 30,539
    The rear end looks a lot better than the earlier photos, but I'm still not loving that ducktail treatment..

    I was hoping that was just a spoiler, but it looks like the actual trunklid..

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  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,613
    its both. The shape of the lid does turn up at the tip, but there is also a small glued on piece. Not sure why, though. It seems to follow the line of the lid exactly, so the glued on lip does not add real height. weird.

    anyway, i like the interior pics. very simple layout.

    '13 Stang GT; '15 Fit; '98 Volvo S70; '14 Town&Country

  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 30,539
    I see what you mean.. It has a little lip spoiler like the one that was on the E46 Performance Pkg models..

    I think it will still have the ducktail, even without the spoiler..

    It's okay... I just like a cleaner look.. I have the same problem with the Z4.

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  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    The wheel wells look more aggressive in many of the pics. This is the best looking, for me, of the flame-surfaced cars (at least in print).

    Too bad it's only a coupe.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,676
    I'm wondering if the 1 series is “worth” it. Not cost wise, but its existence.

    A 335i coupe weighs in at 3571
    We're guesstimating that the 135 will weigh in at 3350 or so (130 hatch is 3245)

    So it saves about 200lbs...

    What if it comes in at 3400lbs...3450...

    Originally when the 1 series was coming out I was excited and though...sub 2800...then time went by and I thought sub 3000...then sub 3200...now its sub 3400.

    I do like smaller lighter cars so it probably would be worth it for me...but when I think of all the effort that goes into developing a new model...just think it should have been more (or less..lbs that is). May have been easier just to develop a track model of the 335 and cut 200lbs.

    I guess to be fair a MazdaSpeed 3 is 3153.

    The V6 TT is 3218...and the 2.0T is 2965.

    I guess the 2.0 TT (ok Cayman...but $'s) would be my ideal...but wrong wheels and way down on power compared to the 135.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,903
    3200-3300 lbs seems about right blueguy.

    As for pricing, maybe we'll be pleasantly suprised (I've become waaaaaaaaaaaay more optimistic since my son was born 9 months ago). The engines are straight carryovers from the BMW line, I'm sure the suspension & chassis have been adapted from the E90 3 series. BMW's only significant investment in the 1 series is the sheetmetal. Maybe a base 128i (before destination) starts at
    $23,800.

    What I say doesn't matter anyway. I'm not going to have one of these sitting in my driveway (I've actually got to get a driveway first) for a few years anyway. My '01 Prelude is still sharp as ever at 5+ years & 83,000+ miles on the odometer. We're quickly outgrowing my wife's '00 Protege ES which is also starting to make some funky noises at just over 7 years old & 87,000+ miles.

    A 128i would make a great 2nd car to the Z4 M Coupe that I'm going to win at Octoberfest ;)

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD, 2015 Subaru Legacy 2.5i Premium

  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,693
    and 2800 pounds. Now that would get me to at least LOOK at the car, regardless of the lack of a nice little 4-cylinder or diesel! ;-)

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • stevecebustevecebu Posts: 493
    I quoted probable prices on the other forum and now I just read the 1 series will have I-Drive as standard. If so, that's really going to boost up the price! :sick:
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,613
    I-drive standard? i don't buy it. it doesn't make sense. especially with all the complaints that surround it.

    '13 Stang GT; '15 Fit; '98 Volvo S70; '14 Town&Country

  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    I would like to trade i-drive for a dipstick...
  • stevecebustevecebu Posts: 493
    I-drive standard? i don't buy it. it doesn't make sense. especially with all the complaints that surround it.

    I agree it doesn't make sense as an option but I did read it in one of the articles I was reading. I hope they are wrong. I really don't have that info myself. But that was what I read. If I find the article again I will post a link to it.

    As far as the dipstick goes, I think it should be mandatory to have one in all cars regardless of make or model.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    If iDrive were standard, BMW would see an already cheap-to-produce item get reduced even more by the economies of scale. It's go from a $300 manufacturer's cost device to probably about $200 if they put it in multiple cars as standard. Like way overpriced navi systems, there's not much to idrive.
  • stevecebustevecebu Posts: 493
    The Controller featured in the optional iDrive control system is integrated to the center console,

    According to Autoweek I was incorrect or rather the article I read was incorrect. iDrive is optional. However with all the M stuff they are adding to the 135i that will certainly boost the price up quite a lot!

    So I'm hoping my figures for MSRP will hold but it's unlikely since they are making it into a baby M, most of the tricks and toys but not all. That will equal a bigger price point. It's possible with the Sport M kit that it could reach into the mid 30's.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 30,539
    ..that has more time and interest than me, should look up base prices for the 320i and the 120i hatch that are currently on sale in the U.K...

    I know the prices are nuts over there.. but, that might give you a good idea of how the 128i coupe might be priced against the 328i coupe..

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  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    You read my mind...I did this yesterday.

    I went to the BMW UK website and priced a 330i M Sport Saloon (32,340) and 130i M Sport 3-door (26,385).

    Based on this very rough logic, the 1 series could cost about 81.6% of the 3-series. So, if the 335i sedan starts at $38,900, the 135i might start at $31,750. Add $775 destination, and we might be looking at $32,500.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    However with all the M stuff they are adding to the 135i that will certainly boost the price up quite a lot!

    rofl Do you know what M-stuff is? It's parts with an M-badge. The 3 series commonly has different airdams, spoilers, etc from the low end model (325 in the e46) to the high end (330 in the e46). Do you remember the black lower body panels on the e36? Or the X3? Those were the base models and then higher end got the paint stuff - sort of like toyota/honda still do on low end DX/VE cars.

    So I'm hoping my figures for MSRP will hold but it's unlikely since they are making it into a baby M, most of the tricks and toys but not all. That will equal a bigger price point. It's possible with the Sport M kit that it could reach into the mid 30's.

    There's nothing remotely M about the 135i. An M uses an M motor (non-turbo), M suspension, LSD, etc. Airdams, rocker panels and spoilers do not make a BMW an M-car. Not by a longshot.
  • stevecebustevecebu Posts: 493
    I went to the BMW UK website and priced a 330i M Sport Saloon (32,340) and 130i M Sport 3-door (26,385).

    This is probably irrelevant but I went to the Philippines website and since I live here for another year and have driven the 4 banger hatch. The prices listed are as follows

    1 SERIES PRICE
    116i EDITION P 1.595M
    118i EXECUTIVE 1.890
    120i EXECUTIVE 1.995
    120i SPORT 2.070

    3 SERIES
    316i P 1.795M
    318iM SPORT 2.950
    325i EXECUTIVE 3.5
    325i M SPORT 3.6

    The Philippine Peso is currently 46 to the dollar. So the 120i Sport will set you back $45,000 US!!!

    Oh and I believe these are made here in the Philippines and there is no bargaining on the price at all!

    Look at how much a 3 series costs!

    So the UK prices are probably closer but it's a tough one to predict but with the M-Sport package the 135i could probably hit $35K
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    It should dilute sales from the 3-series. Maybe add that in the middle of the cycle. :blush:

    Personally, I'd have a 190-200hp four, or the 230HP six, then refer people up to the 3-series from there.

    Loaded, no more than $35k. Base prices of $25,995 and $29,995.

    Should sell 40k a year.

    DrFill
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Well, I see at least 80% of the 1-series buyers opt for the 128i anyway. So I wouldn't be surprised to see BMW loads up the 135i and makes it into a baby M1. Sort of like a semi-halo car to showcase what BMW can do with a small, RWD coupe.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 30,539
    Once you get the percentages... you then have to compare/convert pricing on the 135i to the 335i coupe, not the sedan...

    We are only getting the coupe and convertible..

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  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    In the UK, the 330i M Sport Coupe costs 2000 pounds more than the Saloon. That's about $4000 US - twice the difference between the two cars in US Dollars. Looked fishy to me, so I used 3-series sedan pricing.

    Using the UK 3301 M Sport Coupe price (34,230 pounds), I come up with a 77% difference. $40,800 USD for the 335i Coupe makes the 135i come in at $31,400. Plus $775 destination, and the 135i MSRP might be $32,200.

    Basically the same.
  • The 135i is the car im interested in. i mean come on, who is going to complain about that engine. period. its sweeeet. I dont konw about the pricing but i can tell you that uk and us pricing definatley dont match up because when i was trying to price my audi q7 a year back, before they had released pricing for US, i built one on the uk website and it came out to about 80,000 dollars. however i bought it for 55,000 dollars, so everything is more expensive in the uk. i expect the us proces to be similar to the a3, mabie a little less since its only a coupe. like, 27,000 for the 128i and then 5,000-6,000 more for the 135i, since thats the premium for a 335i over a 328i. and i dont think this would steal sales from the 3-series, because it has very different styling (which is not the best, but not bad...) and it looks like the backseat is a little small. Does anyone know what the size will be of the backseat, similar to a mini? or the old 3-series coupe?
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