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  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,069
    How about a BMW 325xi "wagon?"

    Or. . . an Audi A4 2.0T "avant?"

    The Cadillac SRX is usually HIGHLY discounted, subvented and supported by dealers and GM -- I would imagine the Caddy could have the lowest cost of "use" over a 3 or 4 year time period of them all.

    It, to me, is the closest thing to an American allroad.
  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    Yes, I suppose if they're skiers, then an SUV would make sense. But even then, I honestly can't say I've noticed too many 70-yr-old woman driving up skiing by themselves. Well, ok, usually the 20-something women driving up by themselves get most of my attention. :blush:
  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    Because of its shape, the Pathfinder looks larger than it actually is. If you look at its specs, it's exterior dimensions are actually about the same as those of the Honda Accord.
  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 11,677
    Because of its shape, the Pathfinder looks larger than it actually is.
    I am going to take your word for it. My X3 is shorter than my neighbours Jetta!
    IMO big just seems clumsy and dated...even perceived big. The X5 is only a few inches bigger than the X3 and it looks huge in comparison. I wouldn't consider anything other than an X3, but I wouldn't want an X5...these big vehicles could be dinosaurs in the next few years. If you drive a Hummer you are already a social misfit.

    2012 535ix 2013 Audi A4 2013 Passat

  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,110
    If you drive a Hummer you are already a social misfit.

    I don't think the soldiers who drive them are social misfits and it's probably best to avoid being judgmental. :)

    tidester, host
  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 11,677
    If you drive a Hummer you are already a social misfit.

    Not referring to the military where they are necessary. And not for people who bought them when gas was not a could they know.

    However, if someone goes out today and buys a Hummer for their own personal use, IMHO it would be looked at by many about the same as wearing a fur coat, or smoking (not everyone cares, but there are people who get upset about these things). Social misfit is a little strong...probably socially irresponsible to a lot of people would be what I am trying to say :blush:

    If I was being judgemental I apologize.
    I was trying to say "society might perceive Hummer buyers -as being socially irresponsible if gas is over $4 a gallon".
    The whole point of the matter is that excessively large vehicles could become socially unacceptable if gas prices keep rising. :D (And it seems GM is getting this impression as they plan to stop building Hummer 1's for civilian use)

    2012 535ix 2013 Audi A4 2013 Passat

  • 462462 Posts: 5
    I am strongly considering buying an 04 model X3 from a dealer. It is not a CPO car. Has about 20k miles. Wondering what I can expect in reliability?? Any consistant problems with the 04 as a first model year? Were they offered in Europe in 03 as I've been told, which would really make the 04 a second year model? Thanks, 462
  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 11,677
    All I know is I got my 2004 X3 in September 2004. I have 15,000 miles on it. Absolutely no problems.

    My only complaint is the power windows don't work when the temperature goes a little below freezing...makes it difficult to get a ticket for parking or go through drive through restaurants. Dealer says it is because of sound proofing materials (rubber around the doors/windows)being extra wide. This winter was fairly mild though so it only happened a few times.

    Other than that, I have never driven a car that is so pleasureable. Compare comfort, safety, sitting position, gas mileage, performance, handling, those big windows and view of the road, sound of the engine, huge sun roof, well thought out interior design etc. :)

    After testing a few cars (and my wife has a very nice 2003 Mercedes C Class wagon that is great) I knew when I drove this one it would be the one....I didn't want to give it back to the dealer!

    2012 535ix 2013 Audi A4 2013 Passat

  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    You went two winters without insisting on a remedy? You must have high tolerance for pain or low tolerance for service hassles. Is it acceptable for a BMW to have windows that don’t work below freezing? No. Your dealer is FOS. Make him fix it.
  • 462462 Posts: 5
    thanks for the info!! What gas mileage do you get?
  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 11,677
    You went two winters without insisting on a remedy?

    The dealer really tried. They did spray all the seals around the door. That didn't work. A newspaper columnist suggested some spray which I tried...helped a bit. I have told BMW Canada about it, even to say when I buy my next car I am going to test other makes to see if they have this problem, because I think it is a safety issue. It isn't safe opening your door to pay when you can do it through a window. I will say it does get better after about 2 hours of driving or in the bright sunshine. It makes it difficult to take to the dealer because it has to happen at the perfect time for them to see what I am talking about. I have written about it before and I seem to be the only person with the problem. It is embarassing that Ford Focus drivers can get their parking tag with no problem, and I have to open my door and reach way back!!!!
    But, for me it happens about 10 times a year, and, other than that is the most perfect car in the world.

    2012 535ix 2013 Audi A4 2013 Passat

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 11,677
    What gas mileage do you get?

    Someone wrote quite a few pages ago that when you reach 10,000 miles your mileage will magically increase 20%.
    They were right! I now get 22 to 24 U.S. miles per gallon highway and 18 to 20 city (I'd call it moderate city traffic), and I think this is very good for a vehicle of this size. Premium gas of course.

    2012 535ix 2013 Audi A4 2013 Passat

  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,069
    Social misfit.


    Gasoline OVER $4.00 has been a reality for years in Europe.

    Socially irresponsible?

    Again, WOW.

    What does the price of gasoline have to do with what society thinks. Were society that concerned Adam Smith would certainly take charge.

    BMW builds some fantastic diesel cars that cannot be had here in the US for either money or responsible motives. Were we to buy 3 of these cars (and not, not just from BMW) out of every 10, we would instantly "save" (i.e., not need) about the exact same amount of oil as we import from the middle eastern regions of the planet.

    Such social responsibility would be, one would imagine, relatively easy to achieve. And, considering the cars would be cheaper to buy, cheaper to fuel and be both faster and quicker than comparable gasoline powered counterparts, one would imagine the public would be clamoring for them if not for social responsibility but for fiscal responsibility.

    Necessity not responsibility is the mother of invention.

    Watch for ever more gas sucking vehicles to be in dealerships any second now. The Hummer 1 is a good example of Adam Smith's invisible hand at work.

    The big Hummer if sold in sufficient quantities would continue -- and who knows perhaps grow. It is simply not selling well -- its use of fuel may or may not be a significant reason for its withdrawal from the market.

    A contrarian point of view might be "bring on more and bigger gas sucking vehicles -- and bring them on sooner."

    For if we were to do this, then we might just move Adam's hand to address the "poverty of power."

    Of course that is a contraian point of view (and associated short-term consequences are implied) and one that I would, if possible, rather not have to live through.

    If BMW brings out an X7 with a 12 cylinder gas sucking engine in it, I wouldn't be surprised if it was a brisk seller.
  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 11,677
    I believe I heard, that if Americans could get one mile extra per gallon, it would equal a million barrels a day. If I got that wrong it was still an equally amazing figure.

    I am sure people would never have dreamed that smoking would become looked down upon by a vast majority...20 or 30 years ago (or that smoking is banned from all restaraunts).

    Couldn't driving a gas guzzling pig of a car become the same? I now there are many who believe it is their American right to drive whatever they want......but these loyal Americans don't realize that they are playing into the hands of foreign countries that aren't friendly.

    It might get to the point where it isn't the price that is the factor, it could be the inconvenience of waiting in line at the pumps. Then people might buy a VW Jetta deisel that will go about 600 miles with a tank of fuel.

    Actually, I don't think gas is that expensive enough in real terms. I remember as a kid my father bought gas for his '57 Ford Fairlane for about 30 cents a gallon. So, at 10 times the price over about 50 years $3 isn't bad, most things have gone up 15 or 20 times. An ice cream cone that is $1.50 now was 5 cents, hamburger 25 cents and french fries 10 cents.

    2012 535ix 2013 Audi A4 2013 Passat

  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,110
    Necessity not responsibility is the mother of invention.

    I suppose you could say that responsibility is the child of intention. :)

    tidester, host
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,069
    Waiting in line at the pumps will only happen if there is a shortage of gas. Currently there is not a shortage.

    Right after Katrina, in northern KY, Premium Gas from a brand name outlet was $3.40+.

    No lines then, no lines now that the same station is at $2.86 for premium.

    The rare rare lines represent a distribution problem not a supply problem.

    My 2005 Audi A6 3.2 routinely goes 600 miles on a tankful (which equates to 30+MPG's.) I can only dream what my exact same car with the 3.0 TD engine would get (somewhere between 20 and 40% better according to published specs.)

    Plus the performance from 0-60 improves and the price of diesel HERE at least is about the same a regular (and my Audi requires premium). The price for [a lot of] these German diesel cars on a European configurator is often less than the more or less equivalent gasoline version.

    A 3.2 V6 gas Audi A6 costs 900 Euro's MORE than the 3.0 TD Audi A6.

    Similar differences are able to be seen for BMW and Mercedes -- to name drop.

    Your conclusion about mileage and savings of bbl of oil tracks with articles I have read in magazines such as Popular Mechanics (which I presume is known for at least attempting to report facts with accuracy.)

    But the point is that while 1MPG would be impressive in what it could save, we could likely save 20% or more while improving acceleration and speed, reducing greenhouse emissions, lowering MSRP and lowering the actual cost per gallon -- all with the adoption of a mature and ever advancing technology: turbo diesels. In the case of my own experience I could, one would extrapolate, go from 30MPG (highway) to 36MPG, the price would drop and the impact "socially" (and economically) would be enormous.

    Given our mutual assumption that we want to be responsible (assuming it does not inconvenience us), the immediate adoption of "equivalent" turbo diesel engines in our cars is darn near like having our cake and eating it too.

    The problem is you can't go into your Buick dealer and order the gas engine at 3.6L (or whatever) OR the 3.5LTDI engine -- GM (in this example) has just not gotten around to producing the engine and marrying the engine to the car.

    Audi, BMW and Mercedes (out of "necessity" -- higher gas prices for a lot longer) produce gas engined cars and identical cars with virtually identical diesel engines.

    The diesel engines provide the customer a choice that usually includes, lower acquisition cost up front, lower fueling costs ongoing, a longer lasting powerplant and both better acceleration and miles per gallon.

    Given the availability of such a choice, one would assume that Adam Smith, not social responsibility would make these vehicles popular with the car buying public.

    Yet, I just read that the new Saturn SUV will be bigger, heavier and thirstier than any ever produced by Saturn and that they expect "brisk" demand.

    On the other hand, lots of folks in Germany seem to smoke (it feels and smells like more than we do on this side of the Atlantic.)

    I certainly hope if BMW offers a nifty new X3 with a potent diesel that I won't have to start smoking. :confuse:
  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 11,677
    Canadians buy more smaller and economical cars, however, gas prices can have an affect on what we purchase;

    "Sales of the biggest SUVs tumbled as hurricanes Katrina and Rita and fears of gas shortages sent fuel prices soaring to well above $1 a litre across most of Canada and $3 (U.S.) a gallon south of the border...The slide hit large SUVs in particular. Sales in that category, which includes such behemoths as Dodge Durango, Ford Expedition, GMC Yukon and Nissan Armada, slumped 50 per cent last month in Canada from year-earlier levels, according to data released by the auto makers yesterday...The percentage declines in sales of large SUVs were similar in the U.S. market, where they represent a much larger and more important slice of the overall market than they do in Canada."

    IMO high gas prices and thinking of our oil supply with some respect is having an affect on a small portion of the population...there are even people willing to pay an extra $5,000 for hybrids!

    Of course there are others who will drive whatever they want to drive and high gas prices or trying to preserve the gas supply is of little concern.

    IMO I think we are more aware of the price and supply of gasoline than we have been since Katrina, growing demand for oil in China, unfriendly countries unwilling to sell us oil.
    Diesel engines with turbos sounds like an exciting proposition. Probably more promising than the dubious benefits of batteries.

    You are right, people in Europe are still smoking in much greater numbers than we do and even there it is starting to become a less sociable thing to do (new rules in England to make smoke free restaurants at last).

    IMO there is more awareness about the cost and supply of oil, and I am sure some people smile when they see the guy filling up his Hummer (not to be judgemental).

    2012 535ix 2013 Audi A4 2013 Passat

  • Hi -

    I'm considering purchasing an X3, but I'm wary of the range of MPG estimates I've seen for the car (from 16-24). IMO, 24 is ok, but anything below 20 is really not acceptable. What type of mileage do you guys typically get on your X3s? I'm going to be using it in a fair amount of rush-hour traffic (driving near downtown Cincinnati). Also, how far can you go on one tank? Can you really put middle-grade gas in it? (This is what the dealer told me...)

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 11,677
    I will try to answer as best I can;
    *once you hit 10,000 miles mileage increases 20%. Someone said it here and I thought it sounded weird, but it was true. At 15,000 miles I get 18 to 24 MPG U.S. Around 20 to 22 in mixed driving.
    *If I really stretch it to the limit I can go about 400 miles on a tankful, I haven't gone beyond that but that was close to empty.
    *From what I have read you can use medium grade if the engine doesn't knock. But, there is probably no real savings as the engine won't run as efficiently, and you could do some damage. Sensors will adjust it to run on lower grade fuel, but the savings will be small or non existant.
    *If great gas mileage is critical to your decision I would go with something else, maybe more mileage in a 3 series station wagon. I have heard a VW GTI diesel gets 65 MPG.
    If you need an SUV type vehicle, and love the X3, and you can live with pretty good gas mileage considering it's size, weight, performance then the X3 is a great ride. However, if you think you will be disappointed I would really go with something else because 24 MPG is under pretty ideal conditions.
    Hope that helps!

    2012 535ix 2013 Audi A4 2013 Passat

  • bargamonbargamon Posts: 302
    Looking at an Avalon now.

    Trucks/Crossovers do ride different than cars.

    Momma ain't skiing! Thats for darn sure. Thanks for the advice.

    I told her to either get a wagon (car) or just get another sedan. She is set in her mind in many ways. Just ain't gonna bend her.

    This is a second car. Her 1998 pristine S500 has spoiled her rotton. The "Bismark" just floats along. Double insulated glass and heavy as a brinks truck the ride is very smooth on that Sedan.

    On the Hummer. Outside of military use they are becoming joke.

    Just cuz gas is cheap does not mean we have to be pigs about it. And as a tool we are beholden to opec when we are so wasteful.
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