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Cadillac STS/STS-V: What's New for 2007?

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Comments

  • sevenfeet0sevenfeet0 Posts: 486
    The 300c is a nice vehicle, but it lost to the CTS in the recent Road and Track comparison test (V6 version).
  • rcf8000rcf8000 Posts: 619
    There are a lot more similarities between the STS and the 300C than there are differences. They are about the same size and weight, but the 300C has a roomier back seat and trunk. They both have IRS. According to Car and Driver tests, the STS is quieter and better handling, but the 300C is quicker. Like comparing an S Class to a Crown Vic? NOT.
  • abeabe Posts: 19
    car and driver didnt compare the sts with the 300c because of price differences. they compared the 300c with the crown vic and a bonneville. the sts has a few more gadgets than the 300c and handles a little better than the 300c. still would be a nice head to head comp.
  • eaton53eaton53 Posts: 356
    The 300C will lose. I've driven one and it's fast, but not athletic at all - its weight can really be felt in the corners. An SRX will out-handle it and it rides quite a bit higher than the STS.

    "One-dimensional" is how I would describe the 300C.
  • Apparently a WRC based Focus is a Lambo in Sheep’s clothing. I saw that comparo
  • rcf8000rcf8000 Posts: 619
    Not to belabor the point, but in Road and Track tests the 300C turned in a higher slalom speed than the STS with 1SG package. So I don't think the 300C is a "one trick pony".
  • eaton53eaton53 Posts: 356
    Regardless of what their slolom speed was (I've never done a slolom on a public road in my life), it handles about as well as an '04 Malibu Maxx - I drove them back to back. They both put up quite a fuss in hard cornering... drifting out, tire squeal, etc. It's not athletic, nor particularly confidence inspiring.

    I've also driven and SRX with and without Magnaride. The one without would also drift out in a hard corner. The one with Magnaride was awesome, especially for an SUV. A much better drive than the 300C. Of course, that's to be expected given the $55K sticker - although I was offered a similarly equipped demo with only 2K miles at another dealer for $40K.
  • pearlpearl Posts: 336
    It was part of an early marketing/demo effort by Cadillac - by invitation (which you could get by visiting your dealer). They had two cars - a CTS-V, and and an STS, at a Baltimore hotel (I think that this is part of a traveling road show). Both cars were black with black interiors. Given that the lighting in the room was not bright the interiors were somewhat hard to truly gauge, but I liked the STS - material quality seemed good and everything fell right to hand, or could be adjusted. Seats felt comfortable, but firm, with lots of controls for adjustments. The steering column could be moved electrically up/down/in/out. While you couldn't turn anything on (so the instrument panel was black/dark), my sense was that this would be an easy car to get used to. Two negative impressions were that the driver's footwell seemed narrow - I wanted to be able to place my left foot a little further left, and outward visibility did not seem great - however, this may have been an impression gained by the low light in the room. Outside, this car is more than a "larger CTS". It's lines are softened, and while it is only about six inches longer than the CTS, seemed bigger than that to me - just an impression. Trunk space is not very good, so fold-down rear seats will be important if you plan to carry very much. There were no body side protective moldings on this car - perhaps they will be options, if not, expect some dings (the CTS had them). No question that the STS looked good and will turn some heads. Cadillac reps in the room said that they would start showing up at dealerships in about three weeks.
  • bigdaddycoatsbigdaddycoats Posts: 1,058
    "There were no body side protective moldings on this car "

    They do not have them. I find this a serious omission I would not want my $50k car having door dings on it because of a lack of side moldings.
  • I have not driven either car. I have driven an SRX with Magna. I watched time and again the Speed Channel "love fest" test report of the 300C RWD.

    The early, not mainstream, comments about the 300C AWD are impressive as is the fully loaded price just south of $40K (W/AWD).

    Now, certainly there are differences between a $40K and a $60K car. But, this, IMHO, would be a comparison that, were I Cadillac, I would NOT relish. For even if the Cadillac won, which one would presume it would, many would say "it ought to, it costs 50% more!"

    However, if the subjective vs objective differences added to a "final" score are "close," the Cadillac will, in effect, lose on value.

    The 300C was favorably compared on the Speed Channel review to cars including the 7 Series and the Audi A8.

    I thought these comparisons were "far fetched" to say the least.

    But they are out there and I see this comparison (300C vs STS) as valid, very valid indeed -- especially in AWD guise.
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    why is everyone obsessed with comparing the 300c to the STS? The 300c is a better value than EVERY V8 luxury car in the $50K range, not just the STS. MB shouldnt relish a comparison between a $60K E500 and a 300c. Why is everyone assuming the STS will be the only victim of the 300c?
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,526
    http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosconsumer/0408/11/f01-238683.htm

    First drive impressions of the AWD in print that I have seen.
    - Ray
    Still waiting for an RWD to see and drive . . .
  • mantagmantag Posts: 47
    went to the bethesda, md hyatt for the road show by invitation. my impressions are still mixed. overall - a nice effort. it will sell, but:

    did not notice there was no body side moldings!
    side turn markers look cheap - they should have been incorporated into the side mirrors - even a chevy tahoe has that!
    no under hood light.
    rear leg room - still marginal
    trunk lighting - no improvement - s/b some sort of a strip flourescent light - no one has that!
    interior head-liner, still that cheap fuzzy looking cloth - geez!
    interior felt cramped.

    i'll wait for the 2006 sts-v before i even consider.
    still love my 1999 sts crimson pearl!
  • pearlpearl Posts: 336
    now that I have had a chance to see an STS "in the flesh" and sit in one, I basically like the car (obviously still anxious to drive one); however, I am concerned that Cadillac is over pricing this car by bundling desirable options with things many people don't want. Caddy has been wandering in the wilderness while the Germans and Japanese took the luxo car market away from them. Now that they are back with potentially desirable models - and even if they hold up immediately in terms of quality, resale, etc - they will need a least a couple of years to entrench themselves against competition that now has the reputation they once did. I think that Lexus did it right when they started 15 years ago by offering a great car at a good price, then as they gained acceptance were able to move the price up fairly quickly. The base price on the STS models isn't too bad; however, some options (e.g. AWD) are only available in conjunction with all kinds of other gegaws that many people won't want. $62+K for an STS just to get AWD will run off buyers that Cadillac otherwise could attract. Just my opinion, but I think they are not starting this out right.
  • jb7227jb7227 Posts: 86
    Ordered new STS June 30th from dealer - V8, RWD, 1SF pkg, adaptive cruise, & tuscany leather (Blk/Cashmere)
    Was told to expect delivery around Labor Day

    We have road show coming to Boston on Aug 30th

    Wonder how much dealer will be willing to negotiate (MSRP should be around 62K)

    Only thing im not crazy about - the Caddy logo on adaptive cruise models looks a little too big - to hide the sensor, evidently
  • theo2709theo2709 Posts: 476
    What is this road show exactly? You've piqued my interest. ;)
  • jb7227jb7227 Posts: 86
    Maybe "road show" might be a stretch - according to the invitation, there will be a showing of the 2005 STS w/cocktails and hors d'oeuvres at the Boston Harbor Hotel (Rowes Wharf) - I would assume that some GM marketing brass will be there however I dont imagine we will be able to drive any cars. I figured it would be wise to take a look at a car that I ordered two months ago sight unseen!!! (except for magazines) Hopefully, cars will be arriving at dealerships soon. I saw an article in Automotive News that Caddy is anticipating 70% of demand will be for the V6 - they are learning from their mistakes with the SRX launch when they produced mostly V8's (and customers got sticker shock)
  • pearlpearl Posts: 336
    This "road show" is probably the same one that I went to ten days ago in Baltimore. They had an 05 CTS-V and a new STS (both with black exterior/interior). Cocktails/snacks served and lots of local dealer folks hovering around. I posted my comments on both cars earlier in this thread. Since then, I finally had a chance to read the CU test of sporty cars in which they liked the CTS-V, but trashed it (and other CTS's)for bad reliability. I was praying that this would not happen. Cadillac absolutely does not want to come out of the gates with basically desirable cars that have an immediatley bad rep for quality. The CTS has sold well and perhaps the STS will too; however, if buyers start spending alot of time in the shop for repairs/recalls we will see a big drop off in sales without the customary big discounts/rebates/etc, which will immediately torpedo any resale value. If I were the Caddy GM, I would be on my staff 24/7 about quality. For those of us cheering for them, they just cannot let these cars sink for crappy quality. Geez, you would have thought that this would have been job one for these cars.
  • bigdaddycoatsbigdaddycoats Posts: 1,058
    Cars are now being shipped to dealers.
  • I finally had a chance to read the CU test of sporty cars in which they liked the CTS-V, but trashed it (and other CTS's)for bad reliability. I was praying that this would not happen. Cadillac absolutely does not want to come out of the gates with basically desirable cars that have an immediatley bad rep for quality.

    I wonder where they get their data since JD powers rates Cadillac as more reliable than Toyota 3 Years in a row. And CTS is one of the mass marketed cars for Cadillac after Deville and Escalade.
    The Grand River Michigan plant where the STS/SRX/CTS are produced has been ranked ahead of all plants in the US for quality control for years ahead of NUMMI and Toyota/Nissan/ Honda plants in North America.
  • CU's ratings for cars, and this is speaking my opinion, are not a basis for chosing a car, period. All cars are expensive to maintain and repair.

    Most cars can be had with extended and extensive warranties, and many dealers will sell you prepaid scheduled maintenance packages that approximate Audi's and BMW's "all inclusive" service programs.

    If you like the car and if you find multiple sources (automotive journals, not "horizontal" publications such as CU's) that rate it highly, go for it.

    CU saying a car is or is not reliable impresses and influences me not. Now, let's see what they have to say about the Whirlpool washer and dryer pair though. . . .

    Remember CU used to rate Radio Shack speakers "well"? At the same time Stereo Review and High Fidelity rarely rated speakers from "the Shack" highly. Sometimes CU impresses me as a car magazine (if they really were one) that weighs the car and figures out that the Porsche isn't as good as the Mustrang, since the Mustang is heavier [sic] -- CU equates quality and reliability, as if they are interchangable words, their meanings are so close. Most of us rate mechanical things for several reasons and although reliability certainly could be one of those reasons, it is hardly the sole determinate of "quality." Regardless of their reliability according to CU, the CTS and the SRX for that matter, seem to be quality cars.
  • pearlpearl Posts: 336
    Unfortunately, MANY people read CU and swear by it, particularly their frequency of repair ratings, which was my point. I have no idea how accurate they are (I believe that they are mostly compiled via reader surveys), but the issue is that you don't want your favorite (fill-in) brand showing all those black circles for poor reliability when your competition has the red ones for high reliability. This is just very bad publicity that Caddy does not need as they bring the STS out of the gate.
  • ken6ken6 Posts: 8
    I've just priced the new STS out on Edmunds and it came up even higher than it had previously - I see the AWD has a gas guzzler penalty for 1k - this is the biggest draw back that I can see to this car, small fuel tank, poor range. At 60 miles per day for my commute, I'm thinking the Mercedes E320 cdi is a better choice for a little less money. What does it take to be deemed a "gas guzzler" anyway - the E500 has the same problem?
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,526
    "small fuel tank, poor range"

    Perhaps not the biggest issue - for me - but an issue.

    Several cars that Caddy seems to see as STS competition have 22 - 23+ gal. tanks, at least. (Audi A8L = 23.7, Jaguar XJ8 = 22.3) And the Jag offers a 6-speed trans, with rpm @ 60 mph = 1600 and commensurate very good (for a large and heavy luxury / sport sedan) highway fuel mileage.

    In fact, the Jag would (theoretically) allow a comfortable highway cruising range of 28 (EPA mpg) times 20 gal. (with a reserve) of over 550 miles. Pretty impressive to me.

    - Ray
    Still waiting for the first STS to be delivered to the local dealer . . .
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,526
    "I've just priced the new STS out on Edmunds and it came up even higher than it had previously"

    You need to be a bit careful with some of Edmunds pricing. In the case of the '05 STS, it will allow you to configure / price a set of options that is really incorrect. For instance, you can specify both 1SG and 1SF option groups (1SG actually includes equipment in 1SF) and also add a sunroof for another $1,200 - and the sunroof is already included in the package.

    Thus, it shows a MSRP of just over $70K. Should be just over $60K for a 1SG (Premium / Luxury / Performance, including sunroof) - on caddys web site.

    - Ray
    Thinking even $60K is too high, but that's another story . . .
  • bigdaddycoatsbigdaddycoats Posts: 1,058
    The local dealer here in Rochester, MI just got one in. Parked right in front this morning.
  • joegodjoegod Posts: 13
    Fill us in, what's the story. Did you check it
    out ? What color - V6 vs V8 - Window sticker price ? Etc.
  • bigdaddycoatsbigdaddycoats Posts: 1,058
    Sorry, I did not have time to check it out today. Maybe tomorrow. It is silver. Light platinum, I think.
  • pearlpearl Posts: 336
    I have now decided to wait until the new GS, M45, RL, A6 come out, as well as a closer look at the E500 before I get too hot over the STS. I think Caddy has made a big mistake in pricing this baby so high with desirable options. We'll see, but given this cost, it is not instantly obvious what advantage the STS has over other competitors. I am looking forward to seeing/driving all of them.
  • quemfalaquemfala Posts: 107
    Just think of CU's target audience -- they would tend to trash any vehicle that they didn't consider "green". For my money, I'll do my own research, drive the car, check the warranty and get some excitement! Look at the atrocious quality and service of some VW's and they still are selling.
This discussion has been closed.