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Cadillac STS/STS-V: What's New for 2007?

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  • bigdaddycoatsbigdaddycoats Posts: 1,058
    The dealer had two and they have both been sold. They now have a third one - a base V6 with no options, $40995. It does not appear to have been preped yet. If I have some time this weekend I am going to check it out.
  • A base STS for essentially an MSRP of $41K.

    A Chrysler 300C with AWD and ALL possible options will be about $40K.

    Having not driven either, but having driven a very nice SRX (which was $50K) and having my buds here at the office tell me that the 300C when well equipped is a lux sport, emphasis on lux and grunt, but not a "rough around the edges car" -- makes me hope that one or more of the car "journals" gets an American giant test underway quickly.

    The AWD fully equipped Chryco will be over $20K less than the Cadillac. I know the ruckus this is likely to cause, but -- I think the Cadillac is "better" -- but not $20K better, perhaps $10K if the STS V8 AWD with the high zoot packages were only $50K compared with the $40K V8 AWD 300C.

    You can't argue, either that a used STS will not plummet in value, just like an Audi A8, BMW 7 or Mercedes (pick your class) E or higher.

    Magna ride is a wortwhile and valuable "differentiator" -- maybe On*star is worth a few bucks, maybe the hood ornament is worth a thou or two -- but these cars, until or unless properly vetted by the auto journalists are at least superficially similar enough that one would have to think twice about the $20 grand.

    I remember the time when ford produced a car that if you squinted your eyes pretty good and you were about 100 feet away kinda, sorta looked like a Mercedes E.

    So, Ford started a campaign comparing this Ford sedan with a Mercedes sedan, they showed the cars parked side by side, painted the same color.

    They spoke of the Ford in the same terms that Mercedes was usually spoken of. They said the Ford had a "library quiet ride" and a suspension system that would rival the Merc, and on and on and on. There was NO comparison.

    Then Chrysler brought out the Lancer and must've paid Motor Trend or some other Automotive Journal to run a test of the Lancer and a BMW 5 series, "as if" they were remotely in the same class.

    Those days, those comparisons were obviously apples to pears.

    The STS vs the 300C "ought" to be apples to pears, if for no other reason than the price. But unlike these "leaps of faith" from the past, there is some merit in the comparison. Sure, the outgoing 300M would not hold up as being in the same league as the new STS, but the 300C when luxed-up as close as possible to the STS content level (with its option packages that include the kitchen sink) is "at least in the same continent" unlike the old comparos where the cars weren't even from the same planet!

    As a current Audi owner and currently looking at the new A6 (and not ruling out downsizing to the all new upcoming A4 with the "big engine") the Acura RL, possibly another Japanese or two from Infinity or Lexus -- I have to keep an open mind and at least test the 300C AWD when it comes out in a few months. Yet, equipped as I would want it, the STS is over $10,000 higher than any other "contenders" for my money and over $20,000 higher when compared to the 300C.

    The STS pricing seems out of bounds -- I thought the approach was the Lexus approach, you know start low, set expectations high with a "bargain" price and blow everyone's mind by exceeding expectations by a country mile.

    At this price point, I cannot see how Cadillac can EXCEED my expectations -- so I tend to look elsewhere.

    I guess I'll just take my licks from y'all now.
  • eaton53eaton53 Posts: 356
    The 300C lacks athleticism.

    You can put a nice interior in a Crown Vic or Camry and get the "luxury" part, but the "sport" part of the luxury sport equation is the expensive part. It's even harder to get the balance between luxury and sport just right, which IMO has been done in the new Cadillacs.
  • Hey Big -

    If I recall, you're about my size, 6'3". 300lbs here, would you be so kind as to;
    put drivers seat fully down and back on track,
    note foot position,
    where knees and elbows lie,
    note thoughts on hip and shoulder room.

    TIA
    Gene
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,530
    "$1,500 Offer* for non-GM owners toward purchase of a new 2005 Cadillac STS.

    *Offer valid toward purchase of any new and unused eligible 2005 Cadillac STS. Not available with employee discounts. Only one conquest offer may be applied per eligible transaction. Conquest and loyalty offers cannot be combined. Must show proof of current non-GM vehicle registration and take delivery by 09/07/04. See dealer for details." - from the Caddy web site

    Same for a Lease.

    - Ray
    Owner of a non-GM vehicle . . .
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,530
    I have seen 17 / 26 posted in C+D and R&T for the RWD V8.

    I still see no official mention of EPA estimates on Caddy's web site.

    Anyone seen a window sticker for a V8? I understand they are starting to arrive at dealers . . .

    - Ray
    Still waiting to see one in 3D . . .
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,530
    Well, looking at pictures of a V6 STS on eBay - mentioned in another thread – I am immediately struck by the EPA rating of 17 / 24.

    For the V6.

    Car and Driver and Road and Track both reported (mfr. Est.) EPA 17 / 26 - for the V8!!

    Has anyone seen a window sticker for a V8? What’s the bad news?

    Thanks,
    - Ray
    Disappointed . . .
  • rcf8000rcf8000 Posts: 619
    Since the rating for an RWD V8 SRX is 15/21, I wouldn't be optimistic about the STS's mileage. Also, the real-world mileage reported in the various car magazines' tests of the STS have been pretty low. Considering that the cars are arriving in dealerships, it is amazing but perhaps not surprising that Cadillac is slow in getting the numbers out. I also wonder about the various rear axle ratios being offerred, which is unusual. One would think that the mileage would be different with different ratios.
  • Bad news! Drove a V8 and it screamed. Problem is my golf clubs would not fit in the trunk horizontally. They did fit vertically. I have been an STS owner for over 10 yrs. Guess I'll have to look at the S mercedes or the 300C for the performance and space I need/want. Didn't see much difference in the STS and CTS side by side. Sorry Cadillac, but you screwed up!
  • eaton53eaton53 Posts: 356
    S-Class - A lot more money for equal performance.

    300C - Can't match the STS athleticism. Heck, the V8/Magnaride SRX is more athletic, even with the added ride height.

    Glad Cadillac's got their priorities straight - hauling [non-permissible content removed] over hauling golf clubs. That's why Buick exists....
  • The STS has an unbelievably small trunk for its size; I think this will be a problem for many buyers.
  • carnaughtcarnaught Posts: 1,593
    "Sorry Cadillac, but you screed up!"

    Why, because its got a small trunk?
  • Let me start by saying that I own a 300C. My previous car was a 96 STS. I am still a huge cadillac fan and I want to see the STS succeed. I chose a 300C over the Cadillac mainly because I didn't feel the Cadillac was worth the 20000 more and I preferred the styling of the 300C. The thing that strikes me is a lot of people say that the Cadillac is more "athletic" than the 300C (which it is). It may run through the slalom a little quicker but how does that apply to real world driving scenarios? How many people ever get to experience slalom driving on a day to day basis? The one thing I do know is that if an STS and a 300C are together at a stop light, the 300C is probably going to give the STS all it can handle and for 20000 less. If I owned the Cadillac I would be a little upset at that. I really do want the STS to succeed I just wish it had better sprint numbers, as that will be the situation where it will be tested most often. I am honestly a little disappointed at the performance numbers for the STS. For those people who say the cars shouldn't be compared I disagree. If they were not meant to be compared then nobody would be trying to match them head to head. Has anyone ever compared a Camaro to a Ferarri...no! Why because they are in totally different classes. For people to want to make the comparison something must overlap. This is just my .02 FWIW.
  • eaton53eaton53 Posts: 356
    It's fine for a drag race. In real world hard cornering, the front tires squeal and it loses its composure. I've driven a lot of sport sedans - the 300C is not a sports sedan. It's a fast luxury cruiser. If you do a lot of driving on the interstate, it has to be a top choice.

    A V8/Magnaride SRX (which I have also driven) is confidence inspring on any road, be it straight or twisty. The STS should be even better, given its lower center of gravity.

    The new Caddys have really got it nailed when it comes to the ride/handing compromise.
  • Not exactly..they don't handle the way you describe them. Chrysler (aka MB) has an outstanding electronic stability program which is great in real-world situations. I've used it only once when some a$$**** merged into my lane when there was no room in front of me, without even signaling. So I swerved to the side and the car kept its composure. But yes, I agree with you the STS is more athletic. But does that matter in the real world?
  • eaton53eaton53 Posts: 356
    I've driven the car and know exactly how it handles. Go into a corner hard and it rolls significantly and drifts out. I had the front tires squealing like a pig trying to hold the line, which it couldn't do. I had to back off. Salesman wasn't with me.... good thing because he probably would have crapped himself the way I was flogging his car.

    These were corners I'd expect a true sports sedan to handle without a quibble. It couldn't handle them because it's not a sports sedan.
  • I rewatched the Speed channel's 30 minute test drive of the 300C.

    The car was shown at speed with and without the ESP functioning on a test track. Likewise the car was shown on some twisty public roads with narration that compared the car with BMW and Audi (the bimmer named dropped, 7 series, the Audi name A8).

    The car "journalists" often remark about these Germans as Premium or Luxury Sports Sedans.

    The comparison to cars at this price point was said something like this, "if you weren't told, you might consider this 300C to be in a much more expensive class of cars -- it handles THAT good!" [sic]

    I KNOW this must pain many of us who have been thinking it has to be a Bimmer or Audi or even a new STS to be able to be considered "in this class."

    It would seem that the comparison between a fully decked STS and 300C is all but inevitable. The recent test of a 300C and a Pontiac and a Ford (V8 comparo) had the 300C in a class of its own -- in this test. The first thing that sprang to mind was "how would the 300C do against the STS." If the 300C comes in second -- as one would imagine, hope even, perhaps -- it will still win at a $20K price advantage.

    The SRT-8 may be rough and tumble -- just makes me wonder how Chryco did it or where the $20K extra is in the STS.

    Despite all this, I want the STS to succeed -- currently, it will not get my vote, my $. I think the A6, the RL and yes, the lowly 300C make a very compelling case all for some $10K to $20K less.
  • I am waiting to trade my 02 SLS for the new STS,
    however I really need a trunk that will transport
    two full golf bags. Being retired, my wife and I
    do travel and golf. I am now concerned about the
    trunk space. I contacted Cadillac and they assured me that I would have no problem transporting two golf bags in the trunk. Oh well,
    I should be able to see one soon.
  • I think I would get cluster phobic in there. I have no desire to ride in a coffin for 5 or 6 years.

    Plus, I saw a Bunch of them (300 C) at Thrifty Car Rental!. There is no way I am driving a common Rental for 5 years which I paid $40 K plus for.

    image
    image
    image
    image

    You bet the STS will never fill Thrifty parking lots with stripped down versions. Which will be sold after 7 months at the annual discout sale at the local stadium.
  • With Cadillac, Exclusive prestige is what you are paying for. You will not get a Cadillac, any Cadillac @ $24,000.00 new. That’s the Idea here. If the 300 C is a Benz, then MB is the one loosing sales on the E class not Cadillac. Prestige is worth more than $20,000.00. that is why Jaguar XK sells for so much more than Lexus SC. Not because the XK is better than SC, but because it’s a Jaguar, not a Japanese Car by Toyota.
  • b4zb4z Posts: 3,372
    The STSs are arriving at the dealers now, so I guess this thread should be moved to "Sedans".

    Over 3300 have been built so far.
  • I want to believe this. I hope you are correct.

    I am not certain that the car rental fleet argument is convincing, but I do understand the sentiment. The Cadillac interior, above, wins hands down. The exterior shots, for me, are not compelling one way or the other.

    Perhaps, again -- for me, the key issue is that the option packages do not permit one to choose his/her groupings.

    Perhaps if I could order the car with magnaride, sat nav and AWD and not have to take the kitchen sink, I would feel more inclined to consider one of these new STS's. My recent test drive of an SRX has certainly made me have respect for the brand -- perhaps, perhaps the marketing approach vis a vis the option packages has just thrown me for a loop.

    I subscribe to Cargo magazine and the STS is compared with the new Audi A6. But, the thing is, I can equip an A6 like I want it for $51,550 and it has AWD -- I can only seem to get the STS with AWD if I also accept about $10,000 of other options.

    Having said (explained or qualifed) all this, I still think there will be a comparison test in at least one or more US Auto Magazine between the STS and 300C.

    It's just a hunch -- I could be wrong (and often am).
  • Having said (explained or qualifed) all this, I still think there will be a comparison test in at least one or more US Auto Magazine between the STS and 300C.

    It's just a hunch -- I could be wrong (and often am).


    That will happen. In an attempt to label them 'domestics', yet they are world class sedans
  • Yea right, 300Cs at Thrifty!?! They only have the base 300s and Touring models..not Limited and C. I checked it out.... ;-)
  • "Yea right, 300Cs at Thrifty!?! They only have the base 300s and Touring models..not Limited and C. I checked it out.... ;-) "

    'Joe sixpack'does not know that. They see a rental; they think it’s a rental.
  • I think I know who Joe Sixpack is, but that may not be relevant. I have rented Cadillacs from the major rental agencies. I have rented Mitsubishi's, Lexus and even Jaguars from "US car rental" companies.

    I have been put into Buicks and Toyotas and some really low end sub compacts too when I needed a car and few were left. Once or twice I had some very nice SUV's offered by -- ENTERPRISE! for Pete's sake.

    What about a 300 being in a fleet rental somehow makes it "unworthy?"

    Now, I read my words and I think somehow I am unintentionally "dissing" the Cadillac. And, I don't mean to. I, as some of you know who have read my postings, have had over 2 dozen Audis, including an A8. I have enjoyed these cars because I felt they were "high value" German sedans. As I, for once, decided to "broaden my horizons" by looking beyond Germany and beyond Audi, I have test driven several BMW's, Volvo's, Mercedes', Audi's, Acura's and even a Cadillac SRX. All the cars I drove were between $37 and $50+K -- my current car was just south of $50K -- an Audi allroad.

    I am desperately trying to be "open minded" -- I will drive the Acura RL, the Audi A6 and the AWD Chrysler 300C -- these cars will range in price from $40K to south of $52K.

    The criteria -- for me -- include AWD and ESP or its equivalent. Certain other premium/sporty/luxury features also are at the top of my list of "must haves."

    The STS, WAS (past tense) high on my list. I read with great interest and anticipation about the STS. Yet, when I configured the car as I would want it and checked off the AWD option -- POW! the price shot up above $60K. My Audi A8 was, before discount, over $71K. I ask myself, "where is the VALUE" in the STS at nearly $62K -- even though I have no objection to the price (mostly) with all the gimcracks and do-dads that you can get on the car. I want to customize my STS or 300C or A6 or RL -- or not have to pay an arm and a leg for stuff that I may not use or benefit from. The RL is almost in the same league as the Cadillac insofar as the RL "makes" you get it with the kitchen sink.

    This is an issue of wanting the car equipped as I want it, not limited to an "option package" which although perhaps fairly priced, has features that I don't really want even if they are gimmies.

    I am NOT suggesting that I think the Chryco car is "as good as" the Cadillac. I am merely suggesting to GM (who perhaps monitors these blogs) that the customer should be able to "cherry pick" the features and options in a "more granular" fashion.

    Finally, the 300C by all accounts is NOT a bad car.

    My bias--thus far--would appear to be: Audi A6, Acura RL and a distant third the 300C followed by the STS (because of its apparently inflexible configurations).

    I intend to test drive all three of these cars, thus far I have only had the opportunity to sit in a new A6.
  • Finally got to see and drive the 05 STS. Car handled great. Felt a little cramped behind the
    wheel compared to my 01 Seville. I opened the trunk and was very disappointed. Car was too much
    a CTS for the price. After waiting all year to see and drive the car, I was disappointed overall. Sitting on the lot was a 04 Seville, loaded. Has everything the 05 STS has including
    more room all around. I now own it and feel good
    about my decision.
  • Joe Sixpack doesn't know that!?! Just because they see a car on the road they think it's a rental? Elaborate please...
  • eaton53eaton53 Posts: 356
    "My Audi A8 was, before discount, over $71K. I ask myself, "where is the VALUE" in the STS at nearly $62K"

    The loaded STS is $9K less than an Audi A8.... I believe you just asked and answered the value question.
  • eaton53eaton53 Posts: 356
    Went for a drive in a STS. The dealer did have a red full zoot V8 one but it was off being shown... this one was a silver base V6 model with a luxury package. It didn't have the price on it (built before pricing was available) but it was very similar to the a black one parked next to it except no chrome wheels. I'm guessing the sticker at $43K.

    Any complaints about the CTS/SRX interiors don't apply here... this thing is really nice inside. It had the aluminum trim, very tastefully done. Controls are very straightforward - no Euro technofoolery here. Seats are nicely bolstered and adjust every which way, including lumbar.

    Don't need a key to start it, just walk up, door unlocks. Put your foot on the brake and push a button, it starts. Very trick.

    The STS does drive like a big CTS and that's good. They're got the ride/handling compromise nailed again. It's nimble for a fairly big car without a ride penalty.... we got on a curvy road and I was flinging it around. I did try the AutoStick, not sure I'd ever use it much as the automatic is very good.

    The trunk is not really wide but is deep with a very low opening so little lifting is required to put things in. It's not Town Car big, but it's not small, either.

    Bottom line, this is one of the best cars I've ever test driven and this was a base STS. The V8/AWD/Magnaride ones have got to be fantastic.
This discussion has been closed.