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Cadillac STS/STS-V: What's New for 2007?

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Comments

  • hondacbr1khondacbr1k Posts: 12
    I too think the M35 is an impressive car...but I actually have the same car. It's a 2004 Maxima SE. The cars are built on the same platform and have the same engine (except a few HP difference) but the Max is FWD and the M has a much nicer interior. I am getting the STS because I couldn't get past the fact that I would essentially be driving the same car if I got the M as the Maxima. I also think the STS looks more distinctive.
  • volvodan1volvodan1 Posts: 196
    1. I would imagine the 3.6 is cheaper to build. The 3.6 is not only used in the STS, but also CTS, Lacrosse, G6, Rendezvous, etc. The STS version of the Northstar is only shared w/ XLR and SRX. The Deville version is vastly different because of FWD.

    2. Is there $20,000 worth of extras? For that buyer I can see the value. Personally, the STS w/ luxury package would sticker for $43-$44,000 and gives you heated-memory seats and 6 CD changer among a few other things. That may be the best value in that price range. For $20,000 you get V8, DVD Nav, Magnaride, HID's, sunroof, Bose 5.1 surround sound, heated and ventilated front seats w/ heated rear seats, and 18" wheels. I'm sure I'm leaving a few things out. For many drivers it is worth it, but not all.
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,497
    "I would essentially be driving the same car if I got the M as the Maxima"
    The M is built on an enlarged version of the G35 platform (RWD) - Maxima is FWD - and used to share a platform with the Infiniti I30 and later I35.
    - Ray
    Driven 'em all . .
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    1. Yes, a few hundred dollars more perhaps. The FWD 3.6 is probably also different from the RWD version.

    2. Yes there are additional features. However, they may only cost a few thousand to put on the car, so the profit margin is perhaps more than 100%.

    I, for one, am hoping for some RWD's from either Buick or Pontiac in a reasonable price range. I expect to drive my FWD Seville for a few more years, so GM does have time to develope RWD in the lower price ranges. I also expect the STS to revise its packaging in the future, although the 2006 model seems to remain more or less as is. The CTS has changed its packaging since 2003.

    I see nothing wrong with Cadillac charging as much as possible for the STS, however, it is out of my price range unless there are incentives in excess of $10,000.
  • volvodan1volvodan1 Posts: 196
    I'm not sure if the 3.6 RWD is that different from the FWD version. I would think they made sure it was compatible for both when designing it. The FWD Northstar was not intended for the RWD applications it is being used for now, so it had to be modified heavily.

    The optional packages always give the manufacturer more profit. I don't think it is quite as much as most think, but they make money there. For $50,000 you can get the V6 loaded, so the Northstar is the big mark-up item there. But I think that's smart. 9 out of 10 of my customers who want the V8 would NEVER consider the V6. There is status in the V8 and they want the top of the line.
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    Well, the LaCrosse engine is rated at 240 hp, down from the CTS's 255; the torque is 225 lb-ft, down 10% from the CTS's 252 lb-ft; clearly there are differences. The northstars are available as crate engines, the FWD version is $5000, while the RWD VVT is near $4000. Certainly, one would expect the V6 to be somewhat cheaper to build, but I would say that the cost difference is near $1000 at most.

    The magnetic ride is about $1500 on a Corvette...
    HID headlights are $500....
    Sunroofs are $1200...
    The other odds and ends are worth something, but for $10000 more than the luxury package V8, I think that the premium luxury performance package probably only costs $5000 more to build.
  • volvodan1volvodan1 Posts: 196
    There may be more differences between the FWD and RWD 3.6's. Maybe, maybe not. I would think that the power differences are more from differentiating the Caddy from the Buick. The SRX has 260 horses.

    Like I said, the options are where a chunk of the mark-up are.
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    Cadillac's website currently states 255 hp for all of the 3.6L V6 engines, including the SRX. At the time that the 3.6 was going into production, there was some expectation of getting 260 hp out of it. However, that did not hold up.

    The point that I have been making is that the STS appears to be priced at a high profit level, particularly the V8. There is nothing wrong with that, but in the long run I think they will lose sales.
  • volvodan1volvodan1 Posts: 196
    You are right. Our initial training info had 260. It is 255.

    The loaded V8 is probably selling for a proportionally higher profit. Maybe Caddy should have done what Lexus did and price them artificially low to establish (or in Caddys instance, reestablish themselves).
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    GM is currently not profitable. They need to make money where they can. However, I think that most of the car lines are priced a bit high. The LaCrosse, for example is quite expensive when you get the top of the line model - priced in the $30,000 to $35,000 range. That is really quite high. The STS is priced quite reasonably compared to the BMW 5-series. However, the 5-series is highly thought of. There are some other quite good cars that are cheaper. Some posters here are looking at and buying the Infinity M45.
  • volvodan1volvodan1 Posts: 196
    The STS is actually priced pretty decently. The CTS may have been the first GM car to be priced right starting off and little rebates even 3-4 years later.

    Yeah. I think they could turn a lot around by taking LaCrosse, Malibu, etc. and actually pricing them closer to transaction prices. They are supposed to do that but I have yet to see that. The HHR looks to be priced well. We'll see on Cobalt.

    Imagine 4-cyl G6 starting at $15,995. LaCrosse at $19,995. Top of the line LaCrosse at around $30-31. That might catch peoples attention. Oh, Well!!!
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,497
    "Maybe Caddy should have done what Lexus did and price them artificially low to establish (or in Caddys instance, reestablish themselves). "

    Without the "maybe", I agree 100%. They should have done (should do) exactly this.

    Now I am only 1 (potential) customer. But my sense is that (today) GM needs sales. Caddy has a good product here. (Other GM divisions really are struggling – I think I saw Pontiac with 30+% off vs. last year-to-date as of the end of April.)

    I will be very interested to see if Caddy offers larger rebates in the coming months - and if they address the (my) base price / MSRP issue and / or the option availability issues for 2006.

    Well, again – they are issues for me. And (driving a 2003 Lincoln LS V8 Sport right now) I would have thought I’d be on their radar as a potential STS “conquest” sale . . . Apparently not.

    - Ray
    Obviously not nearly as smart as the Marketing Geniuses at GM . .
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    The May issue of Automobile had a comparison including the V8 STS priced a nearly $67,000. They did not think it worth that, since the Mercedes E500 was a much nicer car at thousands less. The BMW 545 was also not thought much of, but was cheaper than the E500. They did like the Lexus GS430 better than the E500, and it was priced lower than the 545. However, the top rated car was the Audi A6, priced thousands less than the Lexus, and $10,000 less than the STS. I do not think that the STS is priced anywhere close to reasonable. However, Cadillac may have a reason for limiting sales of the perfomance models by pricing them way out of line.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    A tv reporter is hoping to talk with someone who wants to purchase a Cadillac. Please respond to jfallon@edmunds.com with your daytime contact info by May 31, 2005.
    Thanks,
    Jeannine Fallon
    Corporate Communications
    Edmunds.com
  • easyrider300measyrider300m Posts: 1,116
    just wait till interest rates go up another 2 or 3 percent. The automobile industry will be hurting as cars sit on the lots longer. I bet there may be many STS vehicles left on dealer lots when the 2006 comes out. Then you will see some steep rebates if you want to buy the 2005 model. If you plan on keeping it for at least 6 years, you won't get hurt as bad on depreciation than if you only will keep it for 3 years. Caddys and Lincoln tend to have a very high depreciation rate. You can probably pick up an STS for cheap money in 3 years when the leases are up. And if the economy goes south, some lease buyers may not be able to keep up their payments and their cars will be repossessed. A brand new model in high demand always sells at premium prices. Just wait 2 or 3 years and the deals will be out there.

    I drive a 2000 300M that I purchased new in March 2000 and it has all the toys including nav and HID headlights. I paid $29,500 after adding in the add-ons that I purchased and installed after buying the car. Runs and still looks like new with close to 90k miles on the clock. I will keep it for at least one more year and then will probably consider buying the newly redesigned Avalon Limited as I consider it a much better value and it depreciates less compared to the STS. But I do like the STS more than any car out there right now. But to get all the toys I want with the v6 model, I would be looking at about $55k. I can get the Avalon for about $35k after discounts and it will be loaded to the max with HIDs, Nav, pushbutton door opening and starting, remote start, climate and radio controls on the steering wheel and a 280hp v6 engine with 5 speed manumatic tranny. And the Av gets 22 city, 31 hwy mpg yet still does the quarter mile in 14.9 seconds and 0 to 60 in 6.5 seconds according to Motor Trend. And you also get Toyota dependability.

    If you have the bucks to blow and don't mind overpaying for a brand new model, go out and buy one. Life is short. The STS looks to be a fantastic driving car with all the creature comforts. I wouldn't mind buying one myself except that the price, although I feel I could afford it, is a bit high compared to the competition. But top of the line BMWs and Mercedes will set you back even more. Great car ---just a bit too high priced for my tastes.
  • bosshoggbosshogg Posts: 16
    My Dear Gravolvodan,

    Thank goodness that most people in this forum sound like they are "feelin" the New Cadillac STS, so I can keep my blasting to a minimum. The price point on the new STS is better than ever!!!! which is exactly what GM-Cadillac had intended to do with this all new designed flagship vehicle. I challenge you to get up... get off that computer of yours and actually take a dr-walk down to those local dealers that you are so quick to mention and actually price these vehicles....What you will find is the new STS is priced well below the competion the Lexus, Mercedes, Audi and the BMW I'm talkin about same class vehicles of course. I will even take it 1 step further, euippment to euippment and option for option the Cadillac STS is the best value in its class. Meaning gravolvo that you get more bang for yor buck. Please try and prove me wrong. I can save you some time though, Im staring at a current comparison guide as I speak. Now a word to my friends the ones that are considering the new STS. My advice to you is get one now! the prices will be going up for the 06 model yr. Remember when the 02 Escalade came out, (I remember I was selling them). MSRP was 52k and change. x^)
  • easyrider300measyrider300m Posts: 1,116
    "Im starting at a current comparison guide as I speak."

    not sure if you would consider it the same class of cars, but for bang for the buck I would like to get your opinion of the new Avalon. It has an all new body, new engine, and new interior. To me it appears more luxury than sport, but has some nice sporty touches like the wheels with 17 inch Michelins, the dual exhaust, buckets, wood trim, and loads of toys. It maxes out at about $37k list. The handling I am sure is not on par with the STS but it is adequate for normal type driving. It's a bit softer ride than the STS but it's liveable--much better than previous Avalons. And it has the Toyota reliability and lower depreciation. The reviews I have read have been very positive and they often compare it to the Lexus in features and ride quality. And you'll pay about 18k less than the STS for a comparably equipped vehicle.

    I drove the STS recently at a show where you could drive all different brands and models of cars all in the same afternnoon on a course they set up. I was very much impressed with the ride, handling, and level of luxury and sportiness. But I have a hard time paying over $40k for a new car--not that I can't afford it, but I guess I'm practical. I also like the BMW 530i and would like to see a comparison done between the STS and the BMW. The Avalon is probably not in the same class as the STS but it's pretty nice for the price.
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    The car magazines have published a number of comparison tests with the STS and BMW's included. My comments above have been based on what I have read in various magazines regarding the STS's price level.

    The Avalon is a lot of car for the money, but it is not a sports sedan.
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    This car shouldnt even be mentioned in the same sentence as the STS. They appeal to differnt buyers and the STS looks much better. The Avalon is competition for Buick, not Cadillac. If you compare the Avalon to any V8 luxury car in the STS' class it will be a value at $37K fully loaded. It's silly to single out the STS for a comparison. Try comparing it to a $63K 545i and it look even cheaper. If you think the STS is a rip off consider a 225hp 530i (soon to be 255hp) for $44K with no options. That is ridiculous. BMW and MB continue to make their base model luxury models without equipment that should be standard. It's hard to believe you can pay over $40K for a car and not get a CD changer or leather standard.
  • bosshoggbosshogg Posts: 16
    Gentlemen I'm Glad we are on the same page. As for the Toyota Avalon comparison, I'm in complete agreement with 1487 on this one. As nice as the Toy. may be.. its def. not in the same class as the STS......the CTS would be more in line to compare with that vehicle. And with that said, let me also say this American Luxury vehicles are back my friends!!!!, the days of saying "I wouldnt buy an American car" are coming to an end. It takes time to get rid of a bad stigma. But let it be known that I would put an STS, CTS, SRX, the new DTS and Escalade up against any import vehicle out there!!!!!!! bold statement? not really.... what would you like to compare: value, reliability, styling, engine performance guys its all there 100k mile tune ups, 150k coolant changes, 5 to 8k mile oil changes (depending on the driver and conditions) timing chains rather than belts did u know that every new Cadillac out right now runs on Reg unleaded gas not to mention: American cars always have rebates and Cadillac cars and trucks are holding there value more now than ever........ (shew) I mean I could go on and on. All you non-belivers out there do yourself a favor Dont sleep on GM vehicles and please dont even think about sleeping on Cadillac if your in the Lux. Performance Mrkt.

    Boss X^)
This discussion has been closed.