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Cadillac STS/STS-V: What's New for 2007?

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  • unless the "ULS" top of the line, is a completely different car. Who would want to get a car that looks the same at 80K as it does at 300K? for that money, people will probably prefer a unique looking, not just driving vehicle.

    why not just make them cost 150K like everyone else, I don't get it, and them make ANOTHER car to compete with ROlls, and make THAT one have a v-16.

    Isn't that more logical?
  • theo2709theo2709 Posts: 476
    The Rolls fighter will probably be on a heavily modified version of the "XTS". Think S80 to 500 difference.
  • dindakdindak Posts: 6,632
    Saw some glimpses of the STS on a Cadillac ad during the Superbowl tonight. Just a tease, I guess we still have to wait.
  • We also saw a little bit more if you know what I mean. ;) JANET! LOL
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Can you believe I looked away to chase my 18 month old? Missed it!

    -juice
  • I suspect that what Lutz and LaNeve are meaning is that the new ultraluxury car will be a platform that they can take from $80K to $300K, not necessarily a single vehicle. An "entry level" high end sedan could begin with your typical Northstar drivetrain making appropiate power for the class and quickly go up from there. V12 cars could hit 6 figures, and a V16 car could command $250K or more, and might feature longer wheelbase and other distinctive styling to competer against Rolls Royce or Maybach. Cadillac has already said that the V16 engine is currently undergoing testing in some modified Escalades out there. It could see see the light of day in the right car.

    Also, there's nothing stopping Cadillac from introducing a large coupe on the same premium platform (like Mercedes CL cars) and although the 7.5L V12 shown in the Cien won't fit in the XLR, a smaller V12 just might. That could push the price of a car like that into 6 figures as well.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Not knocking Cadillac's strategy, but they shouldn't get ahead of themselves. See how the new STS does first, the 100K+ market is as tight as it is tough. Maybach and Rolls territory is so rarified and even they aren't going to sell as many cars as they thought they would.

    M
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    Dont worry your little head about the super cadillac, it won't be out for years. Maybe by that time the market will improve. Do you have any insights to offer about what cadillac is doing wrong these days? I'm sure their recent products have let you down, I can only imagine how though.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I take it by the tone of that post you think they've done everything perfect and their comeback is complete right? Right. No need for me to wake you from your dream.

    M
  • Has anyone heard any news?
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    perfect? I said that? dont recall that one. Why are you still trolling cadillac topics? I dont understand. Cadillac isnt perfect and LaNeve has said that already. But they are moving up in sales and reputation. Hey you should be happy, MB has claimed they will be back on top in terms of quality in two years.

    I think Caddy will be #2 in sales by the end of this year. Of course that will be hard to do when MB has about 6 C-class models with powerful 4 bangers. It's hard to compete with that when you don't sell a lot of stripper luxury cars. Anyway, #2 isn't bad for a brand that you predicted would take years to turn around and climb the sales charts. If they can sell this many cars when their work is so incomplete imagine what they will be doing in a couple years.

    BTW, what negative comments do you have about the CTS-V? I'm sure you have found tons of shortcomings aleady. Not that it could ever measure up to the C32, oh wait you'll probably compare it to the E55 which cost 20 grand more. Even I know it cant compare to the E55.
  • theo2709theo2709 Posts: 476
    A future Automotive News article is about the V variants of current models. Here's a sneak peak:

    "Two more nameplates will get high-performance V versions after the CTS-V, dealers were told at their make meeting.

    Candidates are the XLR, STS and Escalade."

    Unrelated, but...

    "Dealers learned that the redesigned 2006 DTS will come in 2005 and the redesigned 2007 Escalade in 2006."
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Dude in all honesty give it a rest. My comment about Cadillac didn't excite anyone else but you. Why is that? Simple, you're looking for an argument, so you can get a chance to spew the same tired old rhetoric. Which you did in the last paragraph of your post.

    I haven't said one thing to deride Cadillac or the CTS-V, period. Me posting that Cadillac should be cautious about their high-end market plans is not trolling. I'm sorry if you don't understand the basic rules of the Edmunds Townhall. If what I said was trolling tell the host.

    If you can name the 6 Mercedes models with 4-cylinder engines you'll get a star! After all this time you still can't get the facts right.

    Blah, blah, blah.....put down the wreath and crest nobody was comparing anything.

    M
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,914
    Stop the personal comments. If you don't like another member's posts, ignore them. Further posts along this line will be deleted without warning, and referred to management.

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  • Several weeks ago I was at my local dealership and while I was waiting for service, I got a chance to talk to a visiting Cadillac powertrain manager. We talked a bit about the STS and the one thing I was about to glean about a proposed V-series model is that it is going to have to have more power then they originally intended since the MB E55 AMG has 469 HP and the upcoming BMW M5 is supposed to have 500 HP or so.

    The bottom line is that Cadillac is very aware of the price of entry into this very exclusive territory. I don't think we'll be disappointed.
  • Cadillac will continue Deville/DTS, its the best seller, atleast until 2012, because the redsign is up for the 2006/07 model year. And maybe phase out by 2012.

    V or high performance models will be the STS, and Escalade. Maybe XLR (GM leaves that performance to the Vette) no GM car should out do the Vette, maybe GM has changed that idea.

    The High luxury SEDANS one for S/7/A/LS/XJ, hell even Lincoln and later one for Rolls, Bent, and MyB.

    So as the DeVille MAY phase out the Ultra may arrive on the heels of DeVille
  • I'm a Ford loyalist and I have to say that I don't care much for GM vehicles. They continue to use old pushrod engines, outdated 4 sp. auto transmissions, and build plasticky interiors. However, as much as I don't like GM, I do respect the Cadillac division. Lately they are designing some high-tech, attractive vehicles. The new STS really caught my eye. It looks great, inside and out, and has potent powertrains to back up these looks. And, of course, we can't forget that this vehicle has rear wheel drive. If the STS turns out as good as the previews are showing it to be, I'd have to say it'll probably be the best domestic sports sedan available and definitely worth taking a look at. It should be able to compete with BMW and Audi, since the STS's price more than likely will be much lower. But watch out, Cadillac fans, because a new LS should be right around the corner ;)
  • "They continue to use old pushrod engines,"

    Those "old pushrod engines" outperform the weak junk Ford puts in their cars.

    Ford's in trouble with their truck line especially because of the new CAFE requirements. GM can continue to put high power engines in their trucks, because they will meet or exceed the new requirements with DOD.

    Cadillac CTS-V with its "old pushrod engine"... Does Ford have any sedans that can beat it? Don't think so.

    "outdated 4 sp. auto transmissions,"

    Ford probably makes more extensive use of 4-speeds than GM does. Also, Ford is licensing GM's new 6-speed automatic FWD transmission because they don't have the know-how to do it themselves.

    "build plasticky interiors."

    GM's new products have good interiors, on par with or better than Ford's offerings.
  • bretaabretaa Posts: 130
    bewhite25: Watch out with your GM criticism. Don't be too strident, as others have got into trouble for this. In general, though, I haven't liked GM products at all and have been a Ford loyalist myself until very recently. Ford had nothing in their stable for me to replace my SVT Contour. I was looking for a 4 door, high performance sports sedan and Ford had zip. I liked the CTS, but couldn't swallow its terrible interior for the price. At the same time, though, it's almost impossible to be high on Ford either. Their product in all aspects has been wanting and Lincoln has been dying a slow, painful death.

    That said, I've like Cadillac's recent product a lot, especially the SRX. If I had $50,000 to spend on a car right now, it would be the CTS-V. I have high hopes for the STS, but am waiting to see a more in-depth preview, as I'm not sold on the smoothed out A&S styling we've seen in photos to date...

    - Bret
  • eaton53eaton53 Posts: 356
    "Ford had nothing in their stable for me to replace my SVT Contour. I was looking for a 4 door, high performance sports sedan and Ford had zip."

    Exactly... I also had a Contour SVT. I was in the Ford store about the time I sold it and asked the salesman to look around and tell me what he thought he could sell me. He had no answer.

    "I liked the CTS, but couldn't swallow its terrible interior for the price."

    I love the CTS interior. I'll be driving a Mazda until pre-owned '04 CTS reaches my price point.
  • bretaabretaa Posts: 130
    Eaton53: I know this isn't the forum for it, but doesn't the SVT Contour rock? If you ever want to trade stories, e-mail me at garrisiari@hotmail.com. I'm trying to sell mine right now. The Lincoln LS just wasn't a substitute, especially not having a manual.

    Regarding the CTS, I'm glad you like the interior. It's all relative. Right now, I'm waiting for the CTS-V to fall into my price range preowned, maybe 2007 or 8.

    Cadillac interiors are really getting impressive, though. I love the XLR interior, especially the center console. The SRX interior is also impressive and if the STS spy shots of the interior are anything to go by, it'll be a beauty!

    - Bret
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I think Ford is doing better on the interiors, look at the F150 next to the Sierra and the GMC looks like a relic of the 80s.

    Even newer cars, like the Ford 500 look better than the Pontiac G6 or Malibu.

    GM needs new interior stylists. I like the CTS outside, but inside it could improve a lot.

    -juice
  • I respect everyone's opinion and I don't want to fight with anyone. I'm just saying that instead of new innovative engineering like we've been seeing with Ford in the last year or two, GM sticks with reliable yet old technology. The 3.8L engine may be a good powerplant, but it's a very old design. The only reason it performs so well is that it has nearly a liter of displacement with most of the 3.0 v6s or smaller that it competes with. The Vortec engines are also good engines, but GM continues using a pushrod design because it's more cost effective. The new 5.4 outperforms the standard 5.3 in every way. The 6.0 has comparable specs, but with over a half a liter in displacement greater and less efficiency. They don't have the low end torque and responsiveness that overhead cams can give. Cornellpremed, I don't know where you heard that Ford is borrowing a 6 sp. automatic from GM (if you have a link to a site, please give it to me. I'd love to read it), but if this is true, how comes we don't see this being used in any GM vehicles? I mean, the best we're seeing from them are some 5 speeds used in the Cadillac division. And most of GM's new vehicle debuts are still using some form of a large displacement pushrod with a 4 speed auto. If Ford built a 3.8 dohc, it would destroy the GM ohv 3.8L. The new Duratec 35 will be a much more powerful engine than the new 3.5 from GM. I guess it bothers me that GM isn't taking any risks by coming up with more clean slate desings. In regard to plasticky interiors, it's main seller the Silverado has a less than glamorous interior. I've been in them before and you can find many hard, hollow sufaces. And the dashboard design really hasn't changed for quite some time. GM just builds upon already proven technology that gets the job done, but I think GM will need to reinvent it's thinking with it's mainstream sellers as it is with the Cadillac division. Most of the vehicles in the Ford division that have been around for a few years are less than impressive. I'm just making more of a comparison between the new vehicles and powertrains we're seeing come out from the Ford Motor Co. vs. new vehicles we're seeing come out from the GM Motor Co. I'm sorry, I really should have been more thoughtful. GM can make great vehicles, but I just think that if they don't come up with fresh ideas they will fall behind Ford. I didn't mean to rip on any GM fans. I just love debating this kind of stuff becasue I'm a huge car fan and I just learn more and more by doing this.
  • The STS should eventually be Caddy's volume car. For now, loyalists to FWD want a Deville. But eventually it should be phased out and GM buyers wanting FWD big cars should go to Buick/Pontiac.
  • "GM's new products have good interiors, on par with or better than Ford's offerings."

    Wait, you're saying the Malibu, TrailBlazer, and G6 have a better interior than any of FoMoCo's offerings!?! Check out the new 500, Freestyle, Explorer, Expedition, F150, Volvos, MAZDA6, 3, RX8, Lincolns, and the rest of their group. I wouldn't say they're as good as you think they are.
  • theo2709theo2709 Posts: 476
    You can read all about the new Ford/GM FWD 6-speed auto here.

    In reality, Ford is essentially paying GM to develop the transmission, and both will use it. It works out for both companies in the end.
  • Asian car companies collabarate on transmisions and other components all the time, so what?
  • Thanks, theo2709. That was a cool article. Maybe this will help us take back a share of the market from the Japanese. But, the six speeds that Ford is coming out with in the next year or two aren't from this argreement, are they? The 500's tranny comes from ZF.
  • Show me an Engine that is more advanced than the LS6 Covertte & CTS V Pushrod engine. Its the most advanced engine on the market place. more advanced than the Northstar or any engine BMW or Ford can put on the market.

    "outdated 4 sp. auto transmissions,"

    BMW uses GM transmissions. In all vehicles other than 7 Series. That is how outdated GM transmissions are
  • First of all, I think Germans make more sophisticated engines than the LS6. And if you're not convinced, I think that Ferrari's 6.0L V12 quad cam deserves a little more recognition than a high tech GM pushrod.I'm not debating the fact that GM can do great things. They really can make great vehicles if they want to. However, what bothers me is the effort they put into the cars that most of us Americans are able to buy, like an Impala or a Silverado. Where's that sophisticated LS6 engine or used-by-BMW transmission? I'm impressed how Ford is making advanced technology available to middle class people. A new Ford Five Hundred SE base model has a 3.0L DOHC, 6 sp. auto transmission, a beautiful interior, and a great host of power options, for just over $22k. That's something that a lot of people can get their hands on. And, this whole time I've been saying how I'm impressed with Cadillac so don't think I totally despise GM. I don't want this to turn into some kind of flame war, but I still want to hear other people's opinions.
This discussion has been closed.