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Ford Fusion/Mercury Milan

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Comments

  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,210
    I'll take a stab at it. ANT14 says SABs will be made standard along with two other safety features. I'm guessing Side air curtains and ABS as well. IIRC Ford has not installed AdvanceTrac in any cars so I doubt that stability control is one of them. It would be a first in a Ford car if they do add it.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Posts: 2,287
    Uh, not exactly. The Focus once offered stability control, though there were few takers. As long ago as five years ago, even. . .
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,669
    The Lincoln LS has had stability control since it debuted in 1999. Unless by Ford you meant Ford the brand and not Ford the company.
  • msuradmsurad Posts: 7
    I think it is worth noting that the current models of the Fusion's top competitors (Honda Accord and Toyota Camry) also received a Poor side impact rating by the IIHS when not equipped with the side air bags.

    I don't remember seeing this publicized by the news media as much as the Fusion's Poor result has been lately (If it was shown by any of the national media outlets at all.) I could be wrong, but it seems a little like another case of "Ford bashing" by the media.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,689
    The main thing being highlighted by the IIHS is the Acceptable rating on frontal impact, which is extremely rare even in new small car designs these days.
  • mschmalmschmal Posts: 1,757
    I don't have a problem with the Side Air bags being optional for those people who want to pay for them.

    The problem though is then dealers have to order the car with that option to really give people choice.

    As the previous poster noted, if you want the side airbags and ABS in a Focus, you most likely have to order one.

    Last year Ford really screwed up by haveing a commodities restriction on side airbags in the 500 because to many people WHERE ordering them.

    As someone who sells Fords, customers are pretty much 50-50 for side airbags. But, the people that want the airbags insist on them. Its not like a moonroof or an up graded radio where you can get a customer to consider the car without that equipment.

    The side impact test is more recently getting a lot more play and people are much more aware of desire for side airbags now than even 2 or 3 years ago.

    ABS is totally unimportant to most Ford buyers that I encounter who are interested in the few Ford models that DO NOT have it standard.

    The real player is the the dealer who orders the cars and if Ford has data suggesting that side airbags are desired by a certain percentage of people then Ford needs to get that DATA to the dealers and make side airbags available.

    Mark
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    Not really because the options/packages will be shifted to compensate for it

    I assume this means some other things that are now standard will instead be optional?

    To me the side impact test is really not likely to be a problem, I would have paid for side airbags anyway and I assume the car will do well in the test with them. But, what are they going to do about the frontal test result?

    Saying that it "meets all Federal safety standards", which was a statement from Ford in one of the news articles that someone linked, is not going to cut it.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,210
    The Focus once offered stability control, though there were few takers.

    Thanks for the correction. I completely forgot about that and I even shopped the Focus while it still had stability control and now remember not being able to find a single copy on any local lot that was equipped with it.

    The Fusion would still be the first Ford car to have stability control standard if they do it though. We just leased an '06 Explorer with AdvanceTrac with RSC standard (they started that last year actually) so it is starting to filter out at Ford. I still don't see a need for it in cars but it was a must in the truck.
  • ontopontop Posts: 279
    The automatic shifter in the Fusion has got to be at the bottom of it's class. Non-gated. Only a Drive or Low option. That's it. And looks like Ford shifters from 20 years ago (maybe it is). And this is Ford's return of serve from the Toyota/Honda juggernaut?
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,669
    Gee - I move mine from P to R to D every day and it seems to work just fine. I don't understand the gate issue - why is that necessary? Just seems like it makes it harder to shift back and forth.

    The reason for only having a L option is the shifter was originally designed to be used with the CVT transmission (as was the one in the 500) as that was supposed to be the only automatic transmission option. They ditched the CVT but didn't change the shifter. They'll eventually change it but to be honest it works just fine as is. The only people complaining about it are the people who don't own one.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 11,703
    I agree, the complaint that the shifter only has 'D' and 'L' is much ado about nothing. I mean when driving an automatic how many times do you use anything other than 'P', 'R' or 'D'? Complaining about that looks like they are just looking for something to complain about.

    I also think that a gated shifter just makes it more difficult to shift.

    However I do wish they would offer a manual in the V-6.

    The sign said "No shoes, no shirt, no service", it didn't say anything about no pants.

  • badgerfanbadgerfan Posts: 1,564
    But on the other hand Ford is first to market with a 6 speed automatic in this class and price range. It's always easy to nitpick any car, but overall Ford got most things right, especially when you consider the moderate out the door cost, no matter how equipped.
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Posts: 1,230
    The automatic shifter in the Fusion has got to be at the bottom of it's class. Non-gated. Only a Drive or Low option.

    If you want gates, buy a manual transmission.

    An automatic doesn't need gates, it just needs a clear path to shift, which it has. Besides, the shifter itself is a very minor part of the transmission as a whole. I'd rather have a creamy-shifting transmission than a "gated" shifter on a 4-speed that shifts harder than granite.
  • volk1volk1 Posts: 5
    I had read in another forum that the overall comfort level is improved with the leather seating option. This improvement is aside from whether someone prefers the feel of leather vs. cloth. It instead comes from the fact that Ford apparently puts more cushioning in the seats when leather is chosen. Did anyone compare the feel of the two materials before buying?
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    I have owned Fords for years. I have always had at least one in my garage. I am planning on buying a new car this summer. Fusion was at the top of my list. This IIHS test has me re-thinking my choice. I am going to wait to see how the side air bags change the testing of this vehicle. I am looking at the SEL V6. My other two choices scored better with side air bags of course. I am however disappointed Ford didn't engineer this car to top notch safety standards. Ford corporate knew this test was going to happen and the results. They all should be fired!! yet another black eye for Ford... :sick:
    To the person who was saying Honda Accord/Toyota Camry without side air bags also scored poor, I believe you are correct also. This is yet another Ford bashing media campaign..
    One brightside.. Ford is going to make side airbags standard in this same model year.. I guess it is going to be a wait and see for me... :(
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,669
    Ford was not able to duplicate the right foot injury in the IIHS frontal offset crash, and that's the problem when you do just ONE test - the results are not necessarily repeatable. Ideally you'd do 10 or 20 crashes but that's too expensive. Ford tested it and it passed. IIHS tested it and it failed.

    I seem to remember another car (Saab??) that failed one year and passed the next and when the IIHS congratulated the mfr on the upgrades they made they told them all they changed was the paint color. Go figure.

    The Fusion is no less safe in the real world than any other car of the same size. It's nothing more than bad PR.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Posts: 2,287
    I do NOT believe that the Fusion is no less safe than any other car of the same size. If they were all the same, there would be no point in crash testing. Neither the insurance companies nor the Government would waste the time or the money if they were all the same.

    They aren't.

    The Fusion didn't do well. Particularly in the frontal crash, which will not be helped one iota just because side air bags suddenly become standard equipment.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,669
    But you're basing that on ONE crash test. Not 5 or 10 or even 2. ONE test. Ford did the exact same test and got totally different results.

    How many crashes in the real world exactly duplicate the test scenario? 1 out of 1000?

    A side curtain equipped Fusion is just as safe as any other side curtain equipped Camry or Accord in a real life crash scenario. It's not like the passenger compartment folded in half or the engine wound up in the driver's seat.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,689
    A side curtain equipped Fusion is just as safe as any other side curtain equipped Camry or Accord in a real life crash scenario.

    As an opinion, well, I disagree but you are entitled to it. As a statement of fact... what facts do you have to back it up? It would be real nice to see the actual test data on a side-bag-equipped Fusion. And soon we'll be able to do that. Then we'll have some facts. Note that there have been some side-bag/curtain-equipped cars that have NOT received a "Good" score on the IIHS side impact test. So just putting the bags in there is no guarantee of a good score.

    Ford and every other automaker know that they get one shot at the IIHS test (but they can request a retest if they want to). Actually, Ford got two test runs on the frontal impact test. It is up to them to design the car so that the crash test results are replicable, with a high probabilty of success, within the conditions of the test. Many other automakers have managed to do this.
  • fsmmcsifsmmcsi Posts: 792
    While the IIHS did one test, Ford has probably done many simulations and actual tests. We may never know if the Ford results prior to the IIHS test for the right leg injury in the frontal offset test were borderline. However, the differenece between the IIHS result and Ford's test after the IIHS test indicate that either the design of the car is borderline for the right leg injury prevention, or either the Ford or the IIHS test was not conducted properly.

    backy, I completely agree - other manufacturers seem to be able to come up with designs which pass the offset test with flying colors, so this result on a brand new design is cause for concern.

    I hope that we don't read months from now that they just needed to add $5 more of steel to the vehicle, for which they could have raised the price by $10 and lost not a single sale.

    It is still stunning that all of the high paid people at Ford could not forsee the bad PR from the side test result and make sure that IIHS also tested a car with the side and curtain air bags. Of course, this makes me wonder if it still does not earn a top score with the side and curtain bags. That would be even worse than a poor score without them.

    After the excellent results from the Five Hundred / Montego, this is certainly a surprise.
  • ctalkctalk Posts: 646
    The Fusion is no less safe in the real world than any other car of the same size
    Unless you've followed all of the crashes a Fusion has been in, this statement is simply a personal opinion.

    A side curtain equipped Fusion is just as safe as any other side curtain equipped Camry or Accord in a real life crash scenario.
    You seem to keep stating "real life scenarios", but have no evidence to back it up. I'd rather wait on crash test results, than statement that may not be true.

    fsmmcsi: After the excellent results from the Five Hundred / Montego, this is certainly a surprise.
    Yup, I was actually very surprised.
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    I totally disagree with you.

    "Ford did the exact same test and got totally different results." Show me where Fords own results were so dramatically different than those of the IIHS tests? If Ford's results were so different, why did they not offer to pay for a Fusion frontal offset retest? (Certainly the $22K price of a Fusion is a small price to pay compared to bad press)

    I would argue that Ford knew there would be foot/knee injuries, and TRIED to remedy it prior to IIHS testing. How else would anyone explain the completely bizzare ramp thinggie Ford installed to reduce loads on the driver's legs? Seriously, what the hell is that thing? (For what its worth, I'm pretty certain based on the IIHS test details that there was only ONE IIHS frontal offset crash.)

    From the IIHS test results: "Forces on the right femur and tibia indicate that both upper and lower leg injuries would be possible. Also, a steel pin in the dummy’s ankle broke, indicating forces high enough that ankle injuries would be likely." Who is this supposed to impress in 2006?

    "A side curtain equipped Fusion is just as safe as any other side curtain equipped Camry or Accord in a real life crash scenario."

    How exactly are you making that statement? I havent seen any results from a side curtain equipped Fusion- are there any available to consumers? As of this writing, EVERY SINGLE new Camry and Accord (and Sonata) made to be sold in the US has side curtains standard, FWIW. The Ford gets with the program in September.. a short 6 months from now...

    Again, I'm just curious what kind of data you are privy to that the rest of us average Joes are unaware of, if the IIHS tests are so faulty/misleading.

    ~alpha
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,669
    The side impact results were totally predictable and normal for a car without side airbags. There are a lot of people who don't want side airbags, so Ford decided to make them optional, knowing they'd fare poorly in the first IIHS test. They've asked for a retest with side airbags which I'm positive will have a good result based on the type of injuries reported.

    That leaves the frontal offset crash test. One iteration of one very specific crash test. At least repeat it once to see if you get the same results. The Fusion passed all of the government crash tests. And even if you believe the test then worst case is a broken leg. Terrible but not life threatening. And that's ONLY if you HAPPEN to have an offset crash into a stationary object at exactly 40 mph. What about 50 or 60 mph? What about different angles? The chances of being in that exact type of accident are almost non-existent.

    If this was a Toyota we wouldn't even be discussing it. But because it's a Ford everybody has to jump on the bashing bandwagon.

    If someone has evidence of real world crashes where problems like this are evident - then I'll listen. Until then I feel perfectly safe in my side airbag equipped Fusion.
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Posts: 2,697
    After the crash tests, this is not a big issue any more. They can worry about bringing the transmission up to modern standards after they work on bringing the car's crash safety up to modern standards.
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Posts: 1,230
    I agree on ALL points.

    The ONLY thing that the IIHS test proves that in a SPECIFIC crash situation, with the EXACT vehicle speed, and the EXACT offset angle, that it faired poorly compared to other NEW cars. Does this tell me I should avoid the Fusion/Milan at all costs because of the results? No, not at all.

    How do you know for sure that the Fusion/Milan as a whole is unsafe compared to other sedans? You don't, and it's impossible to deduce that from one test. As far as we know, the F/M could actually be SAFER in most other types of accidents compared to the competition. Unless we have accident data collected from years and years of actual use, with different impacts, speeds, angles, and driving situations, such as weather, tire traction, and driver reaction time, we can't make ANY logical judgement on the F/M, and the IIHS tests don't even BEGIN to prove anything.

    Sorry, but it's Ford-bashing, plain and simple. If it did well in the tests, it wouldn't be front-page news. If Toyota, Honda, Nissan, or Kia faired just as poorly (and they have in past), it wouldn't be front-page news.

    Am I still considering the F/M for a new car? Yes, and no ONE single crash test will change that...
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,689
    Get over it, folks. This is not Ford-bashing. This is a beating that Ford deserves for not paying more attention to crash safety. The same thing has happened in the past (cf. Hyundai Elantra, Kia Spectra) when a car did not do well on the IIHS crash tests. Sometimes we have short (and selective?) memories, don't we?
  • goodegggoodegg Posts: 905
    I mean when driving an automatic how many times do you use anything other than 'P', 'R' or 'D'

    How many times? Countless times. I always use the SportShift in my car every day. Like taking it out of OD when climbing a long grade, or coming down a grade and you'd rather slow the car a little without riding the brakes. Or in stop and crawl rush hour driving, just leaving the car in second gear to provide braking and pickup when rolling along at 20mph. Or wanting to pass on the highway and shifting down a gear or two for instant torque without having to punch the gas. And so on.

    Other cars in this class offer SportShift or similar (Sonata, Accord, Camry). This is a new design for Ford and they miss this boat? And now a crash test issue to deal with? The whole renaming the Zephyr (dressed up Fusion) after not even 1 model year. Ford fumbled the Fusion.

    Hardly complaining. Just look at the competition. Ford is taking another ( better) look and appears will do something to address their shortfalls.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 11,703
    How many times? Countless times. I always use the SportShift in my car every day. Like taking it out of OD when climbing a long grade, or coming down a grade and you'd rather slow the car a little without riding the brakes.

    Ok thats why there is a low selection on the car. Again this is much ado about nothing.

    Now if you really want all the options of using the gears as you say buy a manual transmission.

    The automatic transmission is fine, but they really should offer the V-6 with a manual and an optional auto.

    The sign said "No shoes, no shirt, no service", it didn't say anything about no pants.

  • Ok thats why there is a low selection on the car. Again this is much ado about nothing

    Yea - try throwing the Fusion into low coming going 60 mph! This ado is about the Fusion's lack of a feature that the Sonata and Accord have - and it doesn't. And tell Lexus their paddle shifters are much ado about nothing.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 11,703
    All I am saying is that complaining that the Ford doesn't have the latest, but practically useless, gizmo on it is much ado about nothing.

    The sign said "No shoes, no shirt, no service", it didn't say anything about no pants.

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