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Ford Fusion/Mercury Milan

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Comments

  • dmathews3dmathews3 Posts: 1,739
    They are built on the same assembley line by the same people and the only difference is in the inside trim and the front end pieces like grill etc. and the rear end tail light treatment. For all reasons they should be the same as far as quality etc. Only reason for picking one over the other would be price ((deal if different dealer, dealer service) and which model you like the best.
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Posts: 1,230
    Between the Fusion and Milan, I'd consider the Milan to have a slightly more luxury feel and style, and IIRC, option packages are arranged differently between them, but basically, that's it.

    Unfortunately, this leads to one of the fundamental problems of Mercury: struggling for it's own identity between the bread-and-butter Ford division, and the upscale Lincoln division. IMO, they should have taken a few models from the Euro line and sold them as Mercury-branded cars from Day One. I'd sure be interested in the Mondeo or the European Focus, and I'm sure that others would be as well.
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,233
    You might also consider resale value. I haven't done the math but I was thinking a few years ago the Mercury versions took a bigger hit at resale time. If you can't come up with a real distinguishing difference....I don't see any reason to pay $500 extra and then lose that plus more at trade-in time.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,699
    I'd sure be interested in the Mondeo or the European Focus, and I'm sure that others would be as well.

    But that's exactly what they're doing for Ford. The Euro focus is already on it's way and the next gen Fusion and Mondeo will be built on the same global platform. The Euro Fiesta is also coming next year with few changes from the Euro version. You don't need a U.S. and Euro Focus, Fiesta or Fusion/Mondeo - that's too expensive and unnecessary.

    Mercury will either die a slow death or it will get unique vehicles not sold by Ford or Lincoln. And that won't be decided for a few more years. Depends on how quickly they get Ford first and then Lincoln back on their feet and how the market trends.
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Posts: 1,230
    But that's exactly what they're doing for Ford. The Euro focus is already on it's way and the next gen Fusion and Mondeo will be built on the same global platform. The Euro Fiesta is also coming next year with few changes from the Euro version. You don't need a U.S. and Euro Focus, Fiesta or Fusion/Mondeo - that's too expensive and unnecessary.

    I'm aware of the future products, but my issue is why Ford didn't do this 5+ years ago, to at least establish an identity that Mercury has not had for longer than that. I also agree on the platform sharing, something that Ford should have done years ago as well.
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Posts: 1,739
    Ford has been talking about dumping Mercury for what ten years or so even at one point Lincoln too or instead so until they finally decide if Mercury says for the long haul I don't think you will see anything happen. Now that GM is downsizing maybe Mercury will finally become its own brand. Me personally I think the Fusion is head or heals better looking then the Milan. The Milan looks bland and boring where the Fusion in the front looks more like a baby CTS/STS.
  • kev22kev22 Posts: 2
    Thank You for the information and feedback

    This clears up any anxiety I had of choosing one car over the other, and I will most likely go with the fusion as my next car.

    Thank You again, much appreciated =)
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,699
    why Ford didn't do this 5+ years ago

    Actually they did it in 1985. It was called the Merkur Scorpio. Massive failure.

    5 years ago Mulally wasn't running the company - THAT is the difference. And he's not trying to just import European vehicles - that won't work. Using global platforms to reduce costs will allow Mercury to have unique vehicles that are different than Ford but can be sold at a profit even at low volumes.

    For the past 15-20 years Mercury has simply been a way to give Lincoln dealers more high volume ford products to sell. That won't be the case going forward.
  • savethelandsavetheland Posts: 671
    I had Taurus but chose Mercury Sable as the replacement because it had more upscale look and better interior materials. If not Mercury I would buy something other than Ford because I did not like Ford's mundane design at all.

    But now Ford get upscale with new Taurus. Mercury Sable is squeezed out by Taurus and MKS. But I think Ford makes mistake by devaluing Lincoln further. MKS should be new Mercury Sable and should cost less and Lincoln should be designed as a real luxury car, like RWD and not based on Taurus.

    I mean they spent fortunes on Jaguar and LR, so whats the problem? They can spend billions on Jaguar that does not sell and now that Jaguar is not there anymore they cannot design competitivee Lincoln? Do they have pride in own history and heritage or they are ready to waste money on brand that happens to be European and temporary owned but if it is original American brand it is simply has to die?
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Posts: 4,116
    why Ford didn't do this 5+ years ago

    Actually they did it in 1985. It was called the Merkur Scorpio. Massive failure.


    Actually, it was the '60s Ford Cortina, then the 60's-70's Mercury Capri, then the 70's-80 Fiesta, then the "world car Escort," then the Mekur XR4ti (which could spank a BMW 318 of the same era), then the previously mentioned Merkur Scorpio. That was followed by better attempts like the ConTique (which was a failure from a commercial standpoint, but the 24v V6 with a good 5 speed was a great ride), leading up to the Focus.

    Now it looks like the Fiesta, Focus, Fusion/Mondeo are coming and the 2 vans. Oh and in Europe they have the psuedo-wagon-sport-utility things (c-class or s-class or something). Maybe we will get a minivan out of it.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,699
    MKS should be new Mercury Sable and should cost less and Lincoln should be designed as a real luxury car, like RWD and not based on Taurus.

    We've explained this over and over but somehow you just don't get it.

    Ford's first priority is to fix Ford - Lincoln and Mercury are on the back burner. Once the Fiesta, Transit Connect, Euro Focus and Unibody explorer are here (2010/2011) THEN Ford can focus it's LIMITED resources on Lincoln which most likely WILL include a new top of the line RWD platform. If you look at what they did with the Taurus it should be obvious that they will take Lincoln even further upmarket. But you want them to do it overnight and that just can't happen.

    I mean they spent fortunes on Jaguar and LR, so whats the problem? They can spend billions on Jaguar that does not sell and now that Jaguar is not there anymore they cannot design competitivee Lincoln?

    That is precisely the reason they can't do it right now - they wasted all that money on Euro brands in the past. Mulally was smart to dump them - now all of the money can be spent on Ford, Lincoln and Mercury - in that order.

    You seem to think that Ford has unlimited funds and everything they do or don't do is simply an executive decision. Ford has to pick and choose where to spend money right now and a new high end platform for Lincoln is not top of the list.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    Nice history there.

    I continue to wonder why do Ford and others think the "world car" idea is going to work now, when it has not before?

    I don't know about the current version, but in 2006 when I test drove them I thought there were some differences in the ride felt and steering between the Fusion and Milan. I also felt the seats felt a bit different from each other. A (very) few reviews also noted some differences in ride and handling as I did, but most said they were identical.
  • stephen987stephen987 Posts: 1,994
    The Fusion came standard with 16" wheels--the Milan Premier I drove last summer had 17s. Maybe that was the difference.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,699
    I continue to wonder why do Ford and others think the "world car" idea is going to work now, when it has not before?

    Because it's not the same concept. In the past vehicles were designed in Europe and then modified for the U.S. or vice versa. Now the vehicles are being designed jointly with all markets in mind and local modifications are made where necessary (e.g. having small diesel and 4 cyl petrol engines in Europe and hybrids/V6s in the states). This will work perfectly as long as they don't have to compromise the design too much. And it will greatly reduce costs. There is no reason to have a Euro and U.S. Focus on different platforms.
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Posts: 1,739
    Where are the engine and tranny made for the Fusion Hybrid?
  • trucker49trucker49 Posts: 18
    In a review of the first generation Milan/Fusion a few years ago it was noted the Milan had a little more insulation and was a tad quieter. I like the seats in the Milan better. While I know they are built on the same line I wouldn't doubt there are slight differences....the Lincoln MKZ comes down the same line too and for 10k more I can't believe the differences are just cosmetic.
  • trucker49trucker49 Posts: 18
    Ford did mention last fall they were thinking about doing away with the Mercury line after the next model cycle and I noticed they only have 2 models available for '10 soooo a more upscale Ford and the revamped Lincoln line makes sense. No need really for Mercury although I do like em better.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    Your description sounds an awful lot like this:

    ...a "world car," a vehicle that can be made and sold globally with only small concessions to local tastes.
    ...Ford has given it another try, committing an eye-popping $6 billion to develop compact sedans it can sell anywhere. The results, known elsewhere as the Mondeo, are the Ford Contour and the Mercury Mystique.


    http://www.nytimes.com/1994/10/30/automobiles/behind-the-wheel-1995-ford-contour- -a-small-world-car-after-all.html
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Posts: 1,739
    I think the orginal posters question was if one or the other car had better quality and I'm the one who answered that they both are built by the same people on the same assembley line. Of course the cosmetics could be different between models but the quality should be the same. They only give the person on the line so many seconds to do his/her job. They don't say this is a Lincoln you get an extra 30 sec. to complete the work. For example whether a Ford/Merc/Lincoln the bucket seat is bolted to the floor with 4 bolts so the person gets the same amount of time to install the seat no matter which car it is or maybe even a little less on the Lincoln because I'm guessing with all the power there could be more harnesses to connect. But the next car may be a manual seat with no harnesses so he makes up for the extra time on the Lincoln with the cheaper seat in the Ford.
  • trucker49trucker49 Posts: 18
    Yes, I agree, quality would be the same. I was just saying there are differences probably that just arent' cosmetic....like more insulation here or there perhaps in the engine compartment (inner hood blanket) to make one quieter then the other. Especially with the Lincoln.
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Posts: 1,739
    For what a Lincoln costs there had better be alot of cosmetics included :blush:
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Posts: 4,116

    ...a "world car," a vehicle that can be made and sold globally with only small concessions to local tastes.
    ...Ford has given it another try, committing an eye-popping $6 billion to develop compact sedans it can sell anywhere. The results, known elsewhere as the Mondeo, are the Ford Contour and the Mercury Mystique.


    The ConTique suffered from poor marketing and a half-baked flubbed launch. The car was over-budget although it was designed almost solely for the bottom line. That said, the 95-97 Contour/Mystique were expensive small to mid-size cars. It costs about the same as a Taurus, but had a much more upscale interior and much better driving dynamics.

    Everyone was expecting a low budget Tempo replacement like the Chrysler K-car and they got a 15-20k sport sedan. Unfortunately, that sport sedan had Lucas electronics and a plastic water-pump (although BMW 3-series had the same issue). I would never have bought a Tempo or an Escort, but the Contour with its 24v V6, a manual transmission, and great handling (oh and those bolstered leather seats) got me. Unfortunately, they didn't follow it up with anything.

    I think the Fusion SE 4 cyl/6 speed manual is likely to be my next ride, especially if I can't find a clean MazdaSpeed6 GT.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    But meanwhile the Mondeo was successful in Europe. The world car became a europe only car because they could not design a car that appealed to both markets. I guess the Fiesta will be the first test to see if things are different today.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Posts: 4,116
    But meanwhile the Mondeo was successful in Europe. The world car became a Europe only car because they could not design a car that appealed to both markets.

    Yup, very true. There is also the issue of price-point. Ford is a semi-premium brand in Europe in terms of what they charge for vehicles. The Mondeo is a very pricey piece of automotive hardware, with a relatively small diesel engine.

    I guess the Fiesta will be the first test to see if things are different today.

    I think the Transit Connect will be first, but that is more of a specialty vehicle for urban delivery places. Its like a Scion xB but with payload. Then the Fiesta and then the next Fusion.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    All car prices are high in Europe, In the UK the Mondeo starts at L18,000, Accord starts at about L20,000, Toyota Avensis (which I am guessing is equivalent to a Camry) starts at L16,000.

    I have a kid waiting to try out a Fiesta, but if the de-europeanize it (in terms of handling and suspension) too much for the US, he will be disapointed. I don't how far they can go before he would pay the premium to get a Golf, instead. OTOH, I don't know how european they can keep it and still sell well in the US.

    I may be tempted to consider going to the Fusion if/when they offer a DSG type transmission (power shift is Ford's term, I believe) and if one of my kids would be interested in buying my Mazda6. I went to an automatic in my current car, but would, I think, like to have the best of both worlds with that type of trans...though I have yet to drive one.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,699
    2 things make it more likely to be successful now. U.S. taste is far closer to Europeans now than 10-20 years ago. They're now willing to buy premium small vehicles - not the case even 5 years ago. And Ford is much better organized and managed to be able to design a world vehicle. There isn't that much difference between the U.S. and Euro Focus - it was mis-management that allowed that to happen. First the Fiesta, then the Fusion and Focus. It will happen and it will work this time.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    Where is the evidence that Americans will buy premium small vehicles in volume? The only thing I know is Americans will buy small cars, when gas prices get high enough. We still expect these small cars to be cheap.

    I'm not expecting Ford to be trying to sell premium small cars. The Fiesta in the UK starts about L4000 below the Focus, which is about L3500 below the Mondeo. I'd expect a similar price structure in the US. If the Fusion starts about $18,000 and the Focus about $15,000, I'd expect the Fiesta to start about $11-12K.
  • stephen987stephen987 Posts: 1,994
    Jeffyscott, the MSRP for the base 2010 Fusion S is 19,995 including destination. The 2009 Focus S is 16,215, again including destination, and it's really a strippo model--no ABS, rollup windows, manual locks.

    Based on that, I'd be surprised to see the Fiesta come in much under $14k. In other words, it's aimed more nearly at the Fit than at the Versa or the Aveo.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Posts: 4,116

    I may be tempted to consider going to the Fusion if/when they offer a DSG type transmission (power shift is Ford's term, I believe) and if one of my kids would be interested in buying my Mazda6. I went to an automatic in my current car, but would, I think, like to have the best of both worlds with that type of trans...though I have yet to drive one.


    I think the Fiesta is getting the DSG first. We will see I guess. I am digging for the press release...
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Posts: 4,116

    Where is the evidence that Americans will buy premium small vehicles in volume? The only thing I know is Americans will buy small cars, when gas prices get high enough. We still expect these small cars to be cheap


    I would say Mazda, Subaru, and Mini can all counter that.

    I'd expect the Fiesta to start about $11-12K.

    So again we have the "why can't we have the European version?" with the answer being "because we won't pay for it."
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